JOHN BUTLER

A name does not give the time, place and circumstances something happened - so I grieve with you that they did not manufacture the evidence...   As I said before..... go and speak to someone working in the field and find out how hard it is to prove.... and what was the nature of molestation?  Just touching or what.... if you have the evidence to convict - then sure, give the proof.   Was the child taken immediately to the authorities for tests? ....by the parents?  I think the parents should report it themselves to the authorities.  There are so many level and degrees of abuse that one cannot judge the situation from an outside perspective..... and the lack of good evidence  - especially if it is hearsay.
I am trying to educate you on how complicated the matter is.  It is not as easy as you think.... and if you do not have proof it is  definitely slander....... until hard evidence is provided.  So now you may find out it is not so easy to judge......  unless you have been in their shoes. 

I honestly don't expect to survive Armageddon. As for 'emotional rant' that is sooo funny. 
Yes I'm an uneducated man, of English origin and having never left the UK. I think the spell checker on my computer saves me from many an embarrassment. 
BUT, I remember this scripture of Jesus saying  :-  In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. At Luke 10 v 22. 
I am indeed like a young child when it comes to accurate knowledge and even more so now my memory is fading.  But i think of this scripture every time that those 'wise in their own eyes' answer up on here. There are some, such as @Space Merchant who indeed seem to have masses of knowledge, but is it really of any use when searching for truth about God and God's purpose ? Is it what God wants from us, to be highly educated ?  Certainly not in the eyes of the GB, whom advise against higher education. 
I'm hoping that God knows that  all I'm doing is looking for truth. I don't expect to survive Armageddon but I'm hoping that God in His mercy, through Jesus Christ, will kill me quickly and with little pain.

@JOHN BUTLER  Yes. This post is off in another orbit.
I would encourage everyone to learn to make their PERSONAL COMMENTS on the profile page of the person they are referring to....
and NOT on some random topic.
So.. for example I will go make one on your page ....

Me with a thong would be grossly immodest ... on that gal that played opposite Paul Hogan in the first "Crocodile Dundee" movie, it was positively inspirational.

You keep mentioning the "truly" anointed ones. Did you know any personally?  I have known quite a few in my life time and I believe they were "truly" anointed, but I don't recall them ever having a problem with calling God; Jehovah. 
I am sure you have mentioned it, but I am still not sure what you consider wicked acts, in order to prove themselves a wicked slave. I know the pedophilia issue is one thing. But looking at my brothers and sisters (and I have belonged to quite a few congregations in different countries) I cannot say that those who apply Bible principles in their life are adversely affected. In fact many are extremely grateful they have found the congregation of JWs  because they have helped them discover Bible truths, and help them live by Bible principles. You can listen to their life stories to see they are genuinely happy they have found this brotherhood.  I am not denying there are a few bad individuals in congregations, and some loopy ones, but those always get rooted out eventually. It's nothing new, there have always been some who are wicked, even in Bible times, but there is nothing hidden from Jehovah that won't be revealed. So we have nothing to be worried about.
 

Oh Wait. I really just wanted to say that this particular topic has gone all over the place, but now and then in the JW Public Club it should be possible to discuss the credibility by which we have promoted various political stances and tied them to prophecy. It's true that we've promoted many theories over the years and none have ever turned out to be right - YET! But this doesn't mean they won't all be coming true soon.
Still, it's our duty as true Christians to test and prove to pay close attention to our teaching. So a topic that can accept a wide range of issues related to our expectations about prophetic teachings and our expectations about the "sureness" of such teachings might be a good idea. Not for everyone, of course. Some are in different places when it comes to their respect for the time and research put into our doctrines. Some don't like any of our doctrines, but they seem to base it on issues that are not necessarily related to whether we're right on those doctrines.
I've explained my position that I love our doctrines on war, Trinity, hellfire, nationalism, new earth, ransom, millennium, etc, but take issue with chronology -- and yet a lot of our prophetic doctrines are loosely based on our chronology doctrines.
Setting a rational baseline for what the Governing Body have excelled at rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater should be one of our goals. Dealing with John's criticisms might help some set or reset that baseline.

Fair comment. Do I get to view inside this exclusive Club ? Or is it going to be a place where ex JW's are 'talked about' in secret.  
Enjoy your new private club. 

@Arauna I was thinking about the frustrations you expressed earlier.
I will create a club on here for JW's that feel as you do. I too sometimes feel frustration when conversations are constantly being turned back into pedophilia etc. on unrelated topics.

Mr Butler -  so loving ...     How loving did the Pharisees and others think Jesus was when Jesus cleansed the Temple ?
How loving did the Pharisees think Jesus was when Jesus called them hypocrites, and told them they were from their father the Devil ?
True criticism is not from hate, it is from a love of Almighty God and His son Jesus Christ. 

In my opinion surgeons / hospitals do not save lives,  they merely prolong them a bit.
Only God's love and Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ, can save lives.
I would willingly die today (painlessly of course) as I fully believe in the resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. Knowing I'm of the latter I hope on God's mercy and wish for life in the 'New world'.
But Sir, i love your humour and sense of reasoning. 

@Anna Very well explained, thank you. 
As for me knowing anything  um. There is a song i think that says something like 
'The more I learn the less i know' And my problem now is retaining anything in my head. Memory loss I presume. Plus the problem of not knowing what is truth and what is lies. 
I once, not long ago, wrote on my Facebook page, The one thing I've learnt in life is that i don't know the truth about anything. 
I wish you well with your 'possible new bible student' and with your gaining of knowledge, political or otherwise. 
 
 

Just out of interest, what is the whole point of this topic ?  We all know that Satan is in control of the 'world' and that we  'should' be in the last days -ish.  And I thought JW's were supposed to be 'no part of this world'.  To an uneducated person like me it does seem to be a side track / smoke screen, um, just like politicians use  

I left this forum before because the hate is just too much for me here.  It is a breading ground for all the dissenters.   I prefer to discuss world affairs in light of prophecy where I do not have to deal with people who visit a site like this just to vent their emotions which makes them illogical and full of hatefulness.   I have seen arrogance here that it is just too much to waste my time to deal with.  
Fools - yes fools - because the bible calls those foolish ones who spend their time in the pursuit of breaking down.  They cannot think for themselves or ponder on the fact that the history of Israel is given as an example to us.   They were the people of Jehovah (in a covenant relationship with him) but you can study all the IMPURITIES and injustice that infiltrated the nation despite their having a law to teach them what is right and wrong.  Their management of course went without a hitch!  They were just perfect - so perfect that Jehovah never had to bring all the curses upon them described in Deuteronomy!       Despite all this waywardness of the nation and individuals, Jehovah managed to bring his plan to fruition to bring forth the Messiah - exactly on time!     
Today Jehovah also has a nation in a covenant relationship with him.  Are they perfect!  Hell NO!  They are prone to the same sins as everyone else... but they are fulfilling the prophecies of warning the entire earth to remain NEUTRAL to world politics and remain within his principals.  They definitely are PURE regarding the teachings of trinity, hellfire, pagan traditions, and immortality of the soul and many more.  Are there wayward individuals whose hearts are not PURE - definitely.   But Jehovah removes his spirit from them if they persist in their ways - especially if they are just critical and do not appreciate the good things they have learnt!   They are like Esau and they do not have the qualities of the spirit.  As far as I remember hate and criticism of brothers is not a fruit of the spirit. .....    I would just like to have a logical conversation without all these nasty qualities always sticking out as the main theme! 

In my opinion surgeons / hospitals do not save lives,  they merely prolong them a bit.
Only God's love and Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ, can save lives.
I would willingly die today (painlessly of course) as I fully believe in the resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. Knowing I'm of the latter I hope on God's mercy and wish for life in the 'New world'.
But Sir, i love your humour and sense of reasoning. 

In that case we wouldn't need an organisation and definitely would not need a Governing Body to 'teach us'  lies.  You make it sound poetic, almost romantic in you description, but it's not. 
God's name : YHWH or the Hebrew HWHY left to right.  So where is Jehovah in that ? Why not Yahweh ?  Who started the name Jehovah ? A Catholic Monk maybe ? 
And as for the way God wants us to live. The JW Org is way out of line in that case. 
I have to disagree with you completely Anna.  Zechariah 8 v 23
 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.
It is not for us to dig, we do not have the guidance of God's Holy Spirit. Only the Anointed have that guidance. The Bible was written with Holy Spirit and only Holy Spirit will decipher it. 
Luke 24 v 45  Then he (Jesus) opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures, 
BUT they already had those scriptures. They had read those scriptures. So why didn't they understand them ?  Obviously because they needed Holy Spirit and guidance to understand them. 
I think this proves my point. Now we should have the anointed to open up the Scriptures to us, but we do not know who the Anointed are. Why ? Because the Governing Body of JW org has silenced the true Anointed ones. 

@Anna Very well explained, thank you. 
As for me knowing anything  um. There is a song i think that says something like 
'The more I learn the less i know' And my problem now is retaining anything in my head. Memory loss I presume. Plus the problem of not knowing what is truth and what is lies. 
I once, not long ago, wrote on my Facebook page, The one thing I've learnt in life is that i don't know the truth about anything. 
I wish you well with your 'possible new bible student' and with your gaining of knowledge, political or otherwise. 
 
 

@JW Insider That expression came from my own head. 'Human foundation stones'  Those two men R & R are sometimes put 'on high' and then sometimes 'disowned'. I find that funny. It seems they were once seen as part of the Faithful Slave and are now seen to be NOT of the Faithful Slave. 
Trust in the CCJW ?   Well you will know my personal history of course, so when my brother introduced me to the JW Org (as I tend to call it)  I found that it made sense and people were kind and helpful. However over the years the things I was first taught have been 'wiped out', and therefore things make less sense. And the fact that the Anointed have been pushed to one side and the GB have chosen to exalt themselves, by calling themselves the Faithful and discreet slave, whereas all of the Anointed were once the Faithful and discreet slave,  this shows a dictatorship within the JW org.  The Elders unfortunately are just Policemen, obeying orders from the GB through the 'chain of command'.  A few bits of the teachings are still 'sound' but the whole Organisation is in deep trouble, more so with God than with men. 
Quote : 'encourages high morality'. UM questionable don't you think, in view of the massive amount of HIDDEN  Child Abuse Earthwide within the JW Org.   (and you will know i have some details of such a case within my ex-congregation). Then to hide the Child Abuse even more the GB start accusing adults (one male one female) of fornication, when NO WITNESSES  are needed to confirm it. Nice try at a diversion.  
Quote ; "(I notice that, as an organization, we are almost able to laugh at ourselves with respect to some of these past errors and false doctrines. ". UM, don't you consider the facts of collateral damage ? Do you laugh at the number of people you have stumbled by false teachings ? 
Quote : "we don't produce pedophiles and child molesters"  NO BUT THE ORGANISATION HIDES THEM WITHIN.  Refuses to hand over documents which could lead to Pedophiles being prosecuted and put in prison where they belong. And if a person needs mental care / help then giving info to authorities would help that person. And WHAT ABOUT THE VICTIMS ?  Do you think they are all liars ?  Do you think all of them Earthwide have made it all up just to get money from the Org ? 
Quote "We should all push for more improvements even if this means exposing the seriousness of injustice to children, and exposing these issues to the light."   I did i left the JW org, and that is what eveyone should have done.   Trying to 'push for improvement' whilst in the Org would get a person disfellowshipped for 'Causing division within the congregation'. My brother is an Elder, i asked his advice before i made my decision. 
Quote :" just as so many other institutions have needed ". Stop making comparisons. Your Org is supposed to be No part of the World, so why compare with others that are Part of the World.   
Quote :" that it means God has removed his blessing from all of us, especially the leadership. I don't expect so much out of the leadership .. 
Matthew 5 v 48  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Quote : " it's to make us trust the leadership of Jesus and Jehovah, all the more. " If the GB came off of their pedestal and DID trust God and Jesus more then they wouldn't allow so many false teachings / lies in the Org. AND the GB would allow ALL of the Anointed to be recognised and be of the Faithful Slave. 
However, i am in agreement with others on here, that the GB are showing themselves to be the Wicked Slave class, mistreating the 'domestics'.  
In my opinion big changes are coming. The GB have to be removed, in any way that God chooses. The JW Org may have to be destroyed, if God chooses to do it, or to let it be done. As in the destruction of Jerusalem. 

The point being you now seem to be looking into the 'world'.  We all know what the 'world' is like. 
However the JW Org is supposed to be 'pure'.  Well it pretends to be. 
The world is supposed to be wicked and complicated. The JW Org is supposed to be clean and easy to understand. 
Have a good day. 
 

Keep putting up that smokescreen.

That's one way of avoiding thinking about all the problems within the JW Org I suppose. 

https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-use-1st-amendment-to-hide-child-sex-abuse-claims/

https://nltimes.nl/2018/12/07/three-jehovahs-witnesses-buildings-raided-sex-abuse-investigation

Asking questions is one of most important things in whole/every human lifetime. It does not existing (there are no) "stupid" questions or "forbidden" questions in normal human interactions. We have "stupid" or really stupid answers on some issues. Our fears and taboos, imposed rules of "good behavior" are an obstacles to getting answers on questions we have, but not asking. But such questions sometimes are not existing in our life because we let other to "thinking" instead of us. And also not existing because we thinking or we are so sure how we already know some answers and how such answer is true and reveals all what we need to know. But what a mistake and fallacy it is to think that way. 
Imagine how it would look like, that Eve began with questions ..... to Snake, to Adam, to God?? That would be very interesting, tense, difficult conversation if all parties would participate in conversation. And imagine if Eve would had courage and self confidence and all that what you need to have, to be, for investigation in searching... what is going on here!!?? 
One of biggest problem in WT and JW org community is lack of freedom, lack of culture to ASK QUESTIONS of all SORTS. For all, young and old, male and female. Questions that can be directed, addressed to all. Without limit. Watchtower and JW religion, in this issue, are as/similar to all other "organizations", too.  
:)) 

On facebook, were two interesting comments regarding this topic.  
1.  "I was told young, I got baptized at 14, to not call the police because it makes the org look bad and we don't wnt to bring reproach on jehovah...hmmm.  Doesn't this sound like what Satan aka "je-hovah" would do...conceal the wickedness and not let justice take place?!
2.  "If they say the deed would cause reproach, then they admit that the deed is evil... yet it goes unpunished. How can it bring reproach on God... unless God is the one that committed the crime?
What shames God, is that people to claim to bear His name, let evil thrive, and let victims go without mercy, justice, or comfort."  

 

Ham and cheese croissants are delicious