JOHN BUTLER

John, you are in the UK, right?   My son worked for Child and Family Services in the U.S.  He has said that the people who decide not to report anything are usually doing more harm than good.  In doing some research, the UK has a child protection services  - NSPCC.  https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/
"Don't wait until you're certain if you are worried about a child. If you have any concerns or suspicions, contact our free helpline service to speak to an NSPCC counsellor 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
We will listen to your concerns, offer advice and support and can take action on your behalf if a child is in danger.
You don’t have to tell us who you are if you don’t want to, or you can ask us not to share your name or contact with the police or social services. Find out more about how you can remain anonymous below.
All communications will be recorded and we keep records for 15 years."
Intake protection hotlines are there for anonymous callers who have a concern about child abuse.  They put the pieces together to see if its worth calling the police for further investigation.  Someone may report seeing something as bruises on a child frequently...and call the hotline available in their area.    You can remove the burden of what you have heard by placing the information in hands of those who deal with reports like this every day.  
Since this is in text here,  it may put a heavier responsibility on you that can already be read in your words.  It is not easy to dismiss.  As a child-abuse survivor, you know these things - I also know these things.  Sometimes going with your gut feelings, while also choosing the right recourse, is the best thing to do all the way around.
 
 
 

MYOB = Mind Your Own Business
When you see someone on the street, THIS should be the greeting ... "MYOB" ... instead of "Hello!".

Here is my advice ... from a Barbarian .... and it is worth every pence you paid for it.
What you think you know is hearsay. 
It may be completely true.
It may be completely false.
Or any variation on that theme.
This is why the scriptures COMMAND one to do what is to my personal knowledge, NEVER, EVER done.
Otherwise you will CERTAINLY ruin someone's life, who may be completely innocent of all suspicions... AND RUMORS.
The same SERIOUSNESS as murder ... when you carelessly destroy anothers' reputation.
The person who knows about this thing from personal knowledge, either by being an eyewitness, or hearing a confession FROM THE ACCUSED,  has the responsibility to report it to the police ... BUT FIRST ... he must go to the accused and educate him on proper behavior ... FACE TO FACE .... AND CALL HIM TO ACCOUNT FOR ANY MISSTEP,  whether through impulse, diminished capacity, or even deliberate evil. 
This does not involve "snitching to the Elders", and starting a Witch Hunt.
THEN ... and only AFTER taking that step .... if the Brother does not change his ways,  and all that entails, including apologies and reparations, and repentance acceptable to the actual accuser who was actually harmed .... bring out the chain saw.
BECAUSE, for you, this is ONLY hearsay, you have no responsibility whatsoever to report this to the police, but you do have a responsibility to report it to the Congregation Elders ... if, and ONLY AFTER you have had a thorough discussion with all parties involved ... but ONLY as a "heads-up", so that they do not get sucker punched.
ACTUALLY involved.
Otherwise MYOB.

@Anna  Anna, you've just made my day. I laughed at this comment. Thank you    And i loved the smutty bit.  

COLLATERAL DAMAGE
I have mentioned this before in relation to the Child Abuse within the JW Org. 
I have said that this is now part of the American way of life. Am I right ? Please see this news topic :-
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us-led-airstrikes-in-syria-kill-more-than-40-people/ar-BBPP2oR?ocid=ob-fb-engb-57&fbclid=IwAR3sDT7gl1pENiozYl1BnLE8stM26PaWSHF5ODvtswyYXan0wB_OxpDAePQ

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q514.htm

Yep.

Well it is going to get harder granted with what will come in several years, but one's happiness and building up of faith in themselves and to others should not cease due to these changes.

God instructed us to teach our children so that they know right from wrong, so that they can make positive decisions that does not put them in a negative light. For we are to pass on knowledge and wisdom to our children, just as Mary and Joseph did the same for Jesus, as is with others and onward.
Jumping to conclusions, quick to speak you, are not well open to reason and succumb to something without knowing.
And yet the Bible informs us to be vigilant, to endure the End Times, therefore as True Christians we are to do as such, as Jesus. Those who alienate themselves from God and or is against him will be the ones to perish, those for God, who serve him, the righteous and the meek, those who are the stones and understand who God is, his Son and the Kingdom - these people will survive and they continue to build up their faith in God's Word.
Those for God, those who maintain faith will indeed survive. Granted with what I had posted before, it is obvious to the view of Armageddon.
One Ark? is this of some concept of your own design and or someone else?
Those who maintain faith in God and adhere to his laws, let alone the teachings conveyed by the church by means of the Scriptures. - Yes, such people will survive, especially when God himself knows who is for him, who are his people and who abides by he says by means of his Word, and or Purpose and Will.
Biblical Unitarian, please be more specific.
Is that by your assumption? I was quite vocal on the righteousness and the Meek and the fact that God knows who is for him. I did have a lengthy dialogue with several on this notion.
I understand it it entails, also not the best idea to confuse it to Spiritual Israel, of which I know who are under such and what it is validated by, granted what e can take from the Scriptures.
But do you understand what Zechariah 8:23 entails? I believe I explained it to you before.
And yet only a few understand what the bible says in this regard.
Well that is why it is viable to do research and read, so that what you know from the Scriptures you can teach, help those to be knowledgeable and spread wisdom, as well as good examples expressed by means of the Bible, in addition to Bible Principles, something of which is very evident in what I profess by means of the Scriptures and what I conveyed about teaching our young ones so when they grow up themselves, they can teach those younger than them, such of which is a responsibility, don't by their hand, as did by mine, as did my own Father and his Father.
Perhaps go down to their level and understand where hey are coming from, and maybe you might see for yourself. But clearly seeking out a forum isn't the best of places. I can recommend a place, but clearly such is to difficult for you mainly on your part. Therefore, be committed to biblical studies and research, something of which can be done on your own.
You seem to grown for games. We should be focused on the Bible, if not here you can handle, then do so on your own accord, read and research on your own accord, of which has not stopped anyone be it of a denomination or not.
Perhaps being commit committed to false information and conspiracy will do that to such a man. As is with many others. CSE folk look for every bit of information that is factual.
It isn't confusing if you take the time to research and read. When you know truth you can correct people who take up falsehood or accursed teachings that did not originated with the early Christians nor entrusted by the Christ to the church.
To correct confusion simply read and do the research, encourage others to do the same.

Sometimes you just have to ignore the folks who pretend to know the very best way to be happy, and to serve God, and in the process take an average of 10% commission, and make some basic assumptions.
Every person is different.  Some people like to go camping, and challenge themselves, and the elements, and learn survival skill ... just for the fun of it.  Others,  would be completely miserable being hungry because they caught not a squirrel for food,  and VERY unhappy sleeping in a leaky tent in 40 degree weather, in a puddle of water, shaking uncontrollably ... and I am pretty sure that if it is one thing God doesn't like ... its a wet, cold, miserable grumpy person, with low blood sugar.
I, on the other hand, am just a simple man, with simple tastes, and it does not take very much to make me happy.  I am a happy person .... not by nature, but because I am determined to be genuinely happy, and although I do have my moments, like when trying to reason with Liberal Snowflakes who think the Republic should be run , and look like Disneyland, I enjoy every moment of every day.
But of course, we all want to make progress, and be more and more happy ... possibly stopping short of having an orgasm at a restaurant over a pastrami sandwich ... so I have searched my soul to try and discern what I lack, which if accomplished, would make me a genuinely more happy man than I am, as a general rule ... and after thinking about it for awhile, I have come to the conclusion .....  that it would be being able to devote a small portion of my income to being able to sit at the ocean's edge on a blanket, and look out at the vast endless ocean with it's peaceful magnificent surf rolling in, under the shadow of my very own, brand new, modestly equipped  $40 million dollar  Chinook CH-47 Helicopter.
 
 
 
 
 

@Space Merchant I think i will continue to like every comment you dislike just for the fun of it all. You seem to love linking me with others, so be it. I will join in your game and it will become fun for me. A bit of light hearted pleasure. 
As for you implying something like 'Butler said that the GB of JW org are demonised'  Well maybe they are . 
Jesus said as recorded at John 8 v 44 
 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began,c and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.
Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees but they had been God's chosen people, part of God's chosen nation. Yet he said they were from their father the Devil.  So, think on it, why cannot the GB of JW Org be from 'their father the Devil' ? And if that is correct they would be demonised, or would that be Devilised.  
Remember that many Jews / Israelites remained in their Jewish faith, but they were wrong not to change. So just because the JW Org has 8 million followers, does not make it right.  If the amount of people in a religion made it right then the Catholic church or Islam would be more right than the JW Org  
 
 

I think that put the Kid in his place.  
Just shows how well the JW Org had trained him, to use one meaning but deliberately leave out the second meaning. Oh dear. 
Thank you for this well thought out comment. 
 

I think that put the Kid in his place.  
Just shows how well the JW Org had trained him, to use one meaning but deliberately leave out the second meaning. Oh dear. 
Thank you for this well thought out comment. 
 

I think that put the Kid in his place.  
Just shows how well the JW Org had trained him, to use one meaning but deliberately leave out the second meaning. Oh dear. 
Thank you for this well thought out comment. 
 

Yes you are serious, no doubt.
But if another participant clearly say to you how She is SHE not HE, why you put that in question? You are not showing respect to Witness as female. Why you are stubborn in calling Her as he?

Dear Mr. SM
You may not agree with the opinions, attitudes, beliefs of other people. That's your right. As it is right for anyone else here.
But I have noticed that you love/enjoy, when you humiliate other people because they have different thinking than/from your's. You (often) assign them with various depreciatory attributes. Some of us are your targets on daily basis :)))), and your behavior in this manner is not something that can be called  as - The Christian way.  

What I have noticed is this, I do not remember that Witness ever sent you any offensive word !!!
Well, i can see difference between her's Christianity and your's Christianity. :)))

It should be noted that none of the pictures you showed, not even this one of pagan Marsyas, were from sources giving evidence that Jesus died on an upright pole. I only mention this fact because some people might see such pictures and get a sense that there is historical evidence about an upright pole as a method for the execution of Jesus. It should probably also be noted that you have found no pictures of pagan persons on crosses prior to Christ, but have found several images of pagans on poles. Yet, these ideas about pagans and idolatry still seem to be the key to your complete rejection the earliest known evidence about the shape of the stauros upon which Jesus was executed. Of course, you have the right to accept or reject whatever evidence you wish on whatever grounds you wish. I'm just looking for the logic behind it.
You have used the term crucifixion to indicate execution on a traditional cross-shaped device. If this is what you mean, then who do you think originated crucifixion on such a device before the Romans? And for how many years, decades, centuries, etc., do you think these other persons were executing people on crosses before the Romans. Also, I note that you describe it as "cruelty imposed on criminals and slaves," which is true, but which appears to be at odds with the logic in the next statement:
Crucifixion itself was cruelty imposed on criminals/slaves, but you say the original word for it was added later to symbolize an honorable and victorious death. What was that original word that was added later? How original could it have been if it was added later?
And now you say it was the first rendering of "torture stake" that wasn't available until a very long time later because it was hidden. Again, what was this first rendering and how could it have been first if it came along a very long time later after being hidden?
Because you are repeatedly using the term "we know" about all these points, I don't think you should have trouble answering any of the questions that come up about them.
And of course, you included the first definition as taken from classical Greek and "pagan" authors, but left off the second definition which aligns with the examples found in the Christian Greek Scriptures.
Here is definition 2 from STRONGS NT 4716:
2. a cross;
a. the well-known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces, at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves; cf. Winers RWB, under the word Kreuzigung; Merz in Herzog edition 1 ((cf. Schaff-Herzog) also Schultze in Herzog edition 2), under the word Kreuz; Keim, iii., p. 409ff. (English translation, vi. 138; BB. DD., see under the words, Cross, Crucifixion; O. Zöckler, Das Kreuz Christi (Gütersloh, 1875); English translation, Lond. 1878; Fulda, Das Kreuz u. d. Kreuzigung (Bresl. 1878); Edersheim, Jesus the Messiah, ii. 582ff). This horrible punishment the innocent Jesus also suffered: Matthew 27:32, 40, 42; Mark 15:21, 30, 32; Luke 23:26; John 19:17, 19, 25, 31; Colossians 2:14; Hebrews 12:2; θάνατος σταυροῦ, Philippians 2:8; τό αἷμα τοῦ σταυροῦ, blood shed on the cross; Colossians 1:20.
b. equivalent to the crucifixion which Christ underwent: Galatians 5:11 (on which see σκάνδαλον, under the end); Ephesians 2:16; with the addition of τοῦ Χριστοῦ, 1 Corinthians 1:17; the saving power of his crucifixion, Philippians 3:18 (on which see ἐχθρός, at the end); Galatians 6:14; τῷ σταυρῷ τοῦ Χριστοῦ διώκεσθαι, to encounter persecution on account of one's avowed belief in the saving efficacy of Christ's crucifixion, Galatians 6:12; ὁ λόγος ὁ τοῦ σταυροῦ, the doctrine concerning the saving power of the death on the cross endured by Christ, 1 Corinthians 1:18. The judicial usage which compelled those condemned to crucifixion themselves to carry the cross to the place of punishment (Plutarch, de sara numinis vindict. c. 9; Artemidorus Daldianus, oneir. 2, 56, cf. John 19:17), gave rise to the proverbial expression αἴρειν or λαμβάνειν or βαστάζειν τόν σταυρόν αὐτοῦ, which was usually used by those who, on behalf of God's cause, do not hesitate cheerfully and manfully to bear persecutions, troubles, distresses — thus recalling the fate of Christ and the spirit in which he encountered it (cf. Bleek, Synop. Erkl. der drei ersten Evangg. i, p. 439f): Matthew 10:38; Matthew 16:24; Mark 8:34; Mark 10:21 (R L in brackets); Mark 15:21; Luke 9:23; Luke 14:27.

If that is the extent of your understanding of God's word.......then I understand your position at last.

While vacationing one year in Greece we got stuck in Athens for a couple of days waiting for our friends who were arriving by car from central Europe. In the meantime we decided to do some sightseeing and while doing our touristy thing we got joined by a jolly and friendly young Greek man. This was quite a long time ago, before the days of paranoia, plus my mum and I were rather laid back. Anyway, this young man, in his late teens or early twenties, decided he was going to show us around. I won’t go into detail, he did a great job, (although he smoked like a chimney), and like practically every Greek I have ever heard of was called Stavros. It was just now while reading this it suddenly dawned on me that the name Stavros must be connected to Stauros. And sure enough  HERE  it says this about the origin of the name: “Name Stavros is a rather common Greek male name and as we said comes from the Greek word “stavros” which means cross. Of course in the ancient years the word cross was referring to the item of this shape, with no political or religious meaning. The cross was used by barbarians and then by Romans who started crucifying people as a punishment for their scenes. The cross became a sacred item and symbol for Christianity when Christ was crucified on it by the Romans. The Greek Orthodox Church celebrates the name Stavros in memory of those important moments for Christianity on September 14th, the day of the Holy Cross".
I don’t know how that claim can be made “that in ancient years the word cross was referring to the item of this shape” when the etymology of that word is said to originate from  ἵστημι histēmi: meaning "straighten up", "stand" . (Besides, excuse the smuttiness, I think if I was a guy I’d rather be likened to an upright pole than some other shape).  On the other hand, an upright pole or stake doesn't necessarily have to exclude some other piece of wood attached to it, if the main part is the upright stake.  I mean when the Bible talks about stauros and if it had a cross beam, would it then have to call it "a stauros with another piece of wood horizontally attached at the top of it" ? As everyone knows, the meanings of words change through the centuries, even just decades. eg. gay meant happy not that long ago, now it means homosexual. Hypothetically it could be difficult for someone who discovered a text 2,000 years from now, to know what the author was speaking about if he wrote about a "gay couple". Were the couple happy, or were they homosexual?.....In the same token, was it a single upright stake, or a stake with a cross beam? Sorry, I think I'm just rambling....
 
 

@Space Merchant I think i will continue to like every comment you dislike just for the fun of it all. You seem to love linking me with others, so be it. I will join in your game and it will become fun for me. A bit of light hearted pleasure. 
As for you implying something like 'Butler said that the GB of JW org are demonised'  Well maybe they are . 
Jesus said as recorded at John 8 v 44 
 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began,c and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.
Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees but they had been God's chosen people, part of God's chosen nation. Yet he said they were from their father the Devil.  So, think on it, why cannot the GB of JW Org be from 'their father the Devil' ? And if that is correct they would be demonised, or would that be Devilised.  
Remember that many Jews / Israelites remained in their Jewish faith, but they were wrong not to change. So just because the JW Org has 8 million followers, does not make it right.  If the amount of people in a religion made it right then the Catholic church or Islam would be more right than the JW Org  
 
 

@Space Merchant I think i will continue to like every comment you dislike just for the fun of it all. You seem to love linking me with others, so be it. I will join in your game and it will become fun for me. A bit of light hearted pleasure. 
As for you implying something like 'Butler said that the GB of JW org are demonised'  Well maybe they are . 
Jesus said as recorded at John 8 v 44 
 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began,c and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.
Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees but they had been God's chosen people, part of God's chosen nation. Yet he said they were from their father the Devil.  So, think on it, why cannot the GB of JW Org be from 'their father the Devil' ? And if that is correct they would be demonised, or would that be Devilised.  
Remember that many Jews / Israelites remained in their Jewish faith, but they were wrong not to change. So just because the JW Org has 8 million followers, does not make it right.  If the amount of people in a religion made it right then the Catholic church or Islam would be more right than the JW Org  
 
 

It’s time to tell you, SM, I am not a “he”, but a “she”.  It shouldn’t matter though, since anointed are neither “male or female”; but for you, I am sure all “hell” will break lose and you will write me a book about it.  Gal 3:28
It is amazing that two worthless anointed women from the WT, are able to discern the man of lawlessness standing in the Temple of God, isn’t it, and continually expose the Man of Lawlessness for what it has done to God’s priesthood.  Rev 11:1-3   What was God thinking anyway!  Maybe He was thinking that men in their haughtiness who rule the organization, would see just what God meant when Mary proclaimed, “He has put down the mighty from their thrones and exalted the lowly”.  Luke 1:52…..
Or when Jesus said, “For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”….Matt 23:12…
Ps 138:6 – “Though the Lord is on high,
Yet He regards the lowly;
But the proud He knows from afar.”

“Orderly worship” concerns the anointed Body of Christ, where again, it doesn’t matter who is female or male. They are all “living stones”.  Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9  I also know many male anointed ones who seem just fine with what I do, or with what Pearl does.  They are my brothers in Christ.
You are full of misconceptions concerning the anointed and the Watchtower.  I am very sorry about this.  Also, the two men that you mention are not JWs, nor does it seem they ever were.  They are not anointed “priests” of God.  
The message in Revelation is to the anointed priests of God and those with them. 
 
 
 

Depends on who you ask!

I knew there was a reason none of us was allowed to watch "Saved by the Bell"!
Leah Remini played Stacey Carosi