JOHN BUTLER

So what exactly had he read online ?   Because this was another of my concerns for others in the Org.
We had a brother murdered in my ex KH and i had been worried for other brothers and sisters. My concern was that with all the news about the Child Abuse Earthwide, bros and sis may get verbally or physically attacked locally when on the ministry. 
Hence i said it should be announced at  KH meetings, warnings should be given about this specific thing.  BUT of course the GB and the Elders don't want it discussed amongst the congregants do they.  The GB and the Elders have a 'duty of care' to tell all congregation members exactly what is happening and what the consequences could be. 
Although I've left the JW Org my wife still attends meetings and occasionally goes on the ministry. I worry when she is out there, I worry for her and for others. Just because they are too frightened to talk to me doesn't mean i have no feelings for them. 
The JW's go out into the ministry not knowing the things people in the 'world' know about the Org. That is a dangerous situation to put them in. 

You think it is just frills because you do not understand or do not want to understand the point i was making.
Is seems that most on here have missed the whole point of it. 
In the JW bible NWT, the GB have used the words hands and nails. But in that picture they have used wrists and one nail. 
Only one of those can be right. I prefer to believe the Bible.  The GB approves the Bible translation so I presume they believe it too.
So the picture must be wrong. Artistic licence should not be used to try to pretend lies are true. GB failure.   
 

Exactly right. And that is called dictatorship. Those men, 8 of them now, put themselves in power as the Faithful and Discreet slave. And no one (in their opinion) is allowed to have a different opinion to theirs. If you voice a different opinion you will disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'.  My own brother in an Elder and he confirms that this is the reason they use to remove people. 
The GB pretend they have the only route to God, whereas the bible tells us for sure that Jesus Christ is the one that is the 'doorway' between us and God. Proof of that being, we pray to God through Jesus Christ.  John 14 v 6  Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 
 

Really ? They thought 1914, and 1975, so surely they think he is late now  
 

The problem with the GB is that they don't approve anointed or not anointed JWs to come with alternative explanations to Bible verses. You just have to accept as JW the explanations GB provides how silly or stupid they sound. And you can not question a particular GB explanation. If you do that you are not allowed to be a part of the JW congregation any more.
Why that? I remember it was explained as if you don't trust GB, then you don't trust God or Jesus.

@Srecko Sostar Nothing of which you posted even states the claim of inspired prophet. The constant flailing coupled with the rehashing of what was already posted does not do much in your favor.
 
Therefore, the claim of inspired prophet remains unfounded. You wouldn't catch a Non-Trinitarian say they are an inspired prophet anywhere.
Also it shows you clearly do not know the difference between a prophet and an inspired prophet - that is rather telling. That alone tells you were you sit in regards to Spiritual Wisdom.

example 1) "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a prophetlike organization, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation."Watchtower 1964 Oct 1 p.601
example 2) "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? 
IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" 
These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? 
... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. 
... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom."Watchtower 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'
example 3) "commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62
 
Prophecy
Definition: An inspired message; a revelation of the divine will and purpose. Prophecy may be a prediction of something to come, inspired moral teaching, or an expression of a divine command or judgment. -Reasoning book
 
False Prophets
Definition: Individuals and organizations proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that do not originate with the true God and are not in harmony with his revealed will. - Reasoning book
 
If Someone Says—
‘My minister said that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the false prophets’
You might reply: ‘May I ask, Did he show you anything in the Bible that describes what we believe or do and that says people of that sort would be false prophets? . . . May I show you how the Bible describes false prophets? (Then use one or more of the points outlined on pages 132-136.)’
Or you could say: ‘I’m sure you’ll agree that specific evidence should back up such a serious charge. Did your minister mention any specific examples? (If householder refers to some claimed “predictions” that did not come to pass, use material on page 134, and from the bottom of page 135 to the top of 137.)’
Another possibility: ‘I’m sure that if someone accused you of something similar, you would welcome the opportunity at least to explain your position or point of view, wouldn’t you? . . . So may I show you from the Bible . . . ?’
True prophets and the false can be recognized by the fruitage manifest in their lives and the lives of those who follow them - Reasoning book
Here we can see how WT never clearly making statement how JW organization is not prophet-like organization or God's mouthpiece organization. GB are not rejecting existence of true prophets in this modern times.  They only rejecting accusations about claims how they, GB and JW members are viewed as FALSE prophets. WT reject only word FALSE in connection to prophets. 
By quoted WT articles JW organization stand on quiet and shy claim that JW are "prophets" (of some sort), because they manifest fruitage in their lives, because JW revealing divine will and purpose, because JW spreading inspired moral teaching, because JW announcing divine command or judgment. This specific Organized worldwide activity support self vision on own importance in this role as "prophet-like" agents.

There you have it, then!
Not only is the return of the Lord just around the corner, it is clear done and gone per this understanding. Either way, my point stands: that John is clearly smoking something if he if likens the Governing Body to ones complaining that the Master is delaying.
Will this understanding of the early twentieth century stand the test of time? We will see. It's all very well to be second-guessing and sniping those taking the lead if it is in addition to participating in the disciple gathering activity Christ commanded. Hopefully, that is the case with you.
Far more often, though, such pontificating is instead of participation, with the ones carrying on so imagining they are discernment personified.
One can always go join someone else's preaching campaign. I hear that the Independence Day Church just translated their website into Pig Latin.

Actually I am facing up to my responsibilities more that most JW's that remains in the Org. I'm making it known how disgusting the GB and the JW Org is right now. 
Plus, on here and elsewhere, I'm learning 'new truth' about the lies and deceit the Governing Body have used to mislead people.  
My eyes have been opened wide to the rotten dictatorship of the GB. I think they will be removed, it's just a matter of time.  Matthew 24 v 48 through 51. 
I'm scared of nothing because if i am totally wrong I feel God will forgive me. Take for example Saul that became the Apostle Paul. Saul thought he was serving God but Jesus Christ showed Saul the right way. So, if i am totally wrong then I have hope in God that His Christ will guide me to the right way. However at the moment I feel i am doing what God wants me to do. 
Please be aware however, i do not want the JW Org to be destroyed. I want it to be made clean by God through Jesus Christ. 

Very well worded and to the point. Fabulous comment. Thank you Srecko. 

If you by Christians means only JW, then i would make this kind of observation. JW members in each period of time received and accepted "The Truth" as it was in the specific moment when they became JW.
So, if someone been baptized in 1940 period, for him "The Truth" was been in one shape and form. For those in 1970 period, shape and form looks different then few decades before. For those in 1990 era, "The Truth" also changed shape and form in comparison to generations before, ....and until today same process is going on as well. We can call it "new light", "new understanding", "rowing" or with any other terminology that can arise and be invented, incorporated for justification why new interpretations are better, more accurate than old one.
To connect your comment and mine. Strategy by satan is to much perfidious for humans, to be able aware of apostasy. If JW of 1940 era thought how they clearly saw difference between two teachings and was sure how they had "The Truth", then how is possible that JW from 1970 era saw false teaching about 1940 JW brothers, and how is possible that 1990 era brothers was also been able to detected all false teaching that satan used in JW past periods for purpose to undermine and pollute previous periods of pure teachings of WT? And now modern JW also can see how his brothers from 1990 period was been under influence of teachings that was been undermined and polluted by satan, again.
What if process of never ending "new understanding" is nothing else but constantly present impact and process caused by devil and his influence by which he "poisoning" every "new understanding" in different proportions ?

I get fed up with offering him either, He's never satisfied whatever you give him. 
A Unitarian that loves the JW Org it seems, by the things he writes anyway. 

:)))))))) believe me, biscuits are better for you .... in this situation.  

.... did they used Urim and the Thummim?... have they thrown the dice?
 
It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us ...
 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us...
The Holy Spirit and we have agreed ...
The Holy Spirit has shown us that we should not...
For it is seen to the Holy Ghost and to us ...
 
In those times, people of today said so, miracles had took place and ended in 1 century. No more any gifts, no more any inspired words, no more any inspired works. No more inspired writings .... aka publications .... in WT Company :))
So, if Spirit influenced apostles and elders to made decisions, please will somebody say, explain HOW that was happened? How humans and celestial spirits had communicated ....... and made decision ?
 

Yes I believe Jehovah has allowed much wickedness within JW Org, and I believe He has withheld His holy spirit from the JW Org too. 
But think of it from a different direction, Jehovah has often listened to His people. Maybe He has been waiting for those with a proper conscience to complain and moan about the condition of JW Org. I've said for many years that JW's do not take serving God seriously enough. It becomes part of their life and just becomes routine. My own brother who is an Elder would actually watch television whilst studying. Others whilst on the ministry would be looking for things in people's gardens, such as old classic cars that might be for sale. Using the ministry as an excuse to nose into people's property. Yes I've seen these things with my own eyes, and they just laugh as if it's the right thing to do. Then at the KH they look so upright and proper. So two faced. And I honestly believe that Jehovah is now judging the GB, the JW Org, the Elders, and the whole situation. Hence I do believe that Jehovah will remove the GB and straighten out the JW Org, then I will most probably return. But I will not be part of the disgusting things going on in the Org now. 

That is an EXTREMELY good example .... that fact rock solid hard evidence, not agenda based fluffery and fuzzy thinking!
I am as critical of all the crap going on as anybody here is ... and probably know as much or more than most well educated people about such things .... but I have learned through interactions with MANY kinds of "organizations", not to expect too much from people in groups.
The example I most often recall to mind is this:
If you understand the Mission of the United States Marines, and their necessity in the real world to defend what is honorable, true and righteous ( ... in a very limited absolute sense ...), then for some, that mission was what you were born to do .... be a "Sheepdog", with fangs and claws ... to be the "point of the spear", to protect your fellow sheep ... who are many times scared of you.
It entails willingness to die, or live the rest of your life mangled and broken.  That's what the job IS.
But as the "Peter Principle", a VERY famous business principle states (paraphrased) "Everyone rises in rank to their own level of incompetency".
You could be a very good Marine Sargent, and rise to be an incompetent Marine Lieutenant, etc., ad infinitum. 
A committee is a peculiar life form with at least six legs, and no brain.
This is ESPECIALLY true in fuzzy subjects such as Theology, where everyone is jousting for favor and position with God, and gets used to great piles of free money .... considering it their due.
The Governing Body is NOT the exception, and they have 16 legs.
This is ESPECIALLY true with anyone claiming to speak for God, whether it is kissing the Pope's ring, or admiring the Governing Body's Rolex watches and gold pinkie rings.
When you begin to live like Kings, that vow of poverty becomes irrelevant.
That  bears repeating, over and over ... as there is a VERY important core principle embedded in that innocuous  rock solid and true observation.
I personally fully understand that, and though I sigh and cry over all the unnecessary burdens and smelly crap we have to carry ... that I personally have been expected to carry over the years ... and silly irrelevant drivel we are expected to swallow, hook-line-and-sinker ... I still want to be a "Marine" .... just not an Officer.
The biggest problem we have ... is HAVING to recruit from deeply flawed but presumably well intentioned humans.
.... sigh.
... so does the United States Marines ... and THEY have rifles.

Yes I believe Jehovah has allowed much wickedness within JW Org, and I believe He has withheld His holy spirit from the JW Org too. 
But think of it from a different direction, Jehovah has often listened to His people. Maybe He has been waiting for those with a proper conscience to complain and moan about the condition of JW Org. I've said for many years that JW's do not take serving God seriously enough. It becomes part of their life and just becomes routine. My own brother who is an Elder would actually watch television whilst studying. Others whilst on the ministry would be looking for things in people's gardens, such as old classic cars that might be for sale. Using the ministry as an excuse to nose into people's property. Yes I've seen these things with my own eyes, and they just laugh as if it's the right thing to do. Then at the KH they look so upright and proper. So two faced. And I honestly believe that Jehovah is now judging the GB, the JW Org, the Elders, and the whole situation. Hence I do believe that Jehovah will remove the GB and straighten out the JW Org, then I will most probably return. But I will not be part of the disgusting things going on in the Org now. 

Jesus asked a question: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?". He did not gave the answer. The only clue he gave is how we can recognise the evil slave:  "he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards".
Now, we have no way to know who is the FDS, but by examining Christianity, including us as Jehovah's Witnesses, we can understand that all the leadership (from Papacy to Governing Body) are beating the flock.
The faithful slave will be appointed over all his belongings when Jesus returns, not before. (verse 47 of Matthew 24 is clear) So, how can the GB claims that they have been appointed on Jehovah's organisation since the first part of the 20th century?

Interesting stuff, especially the difference between Chi Rho and Tau Rho.
Howeve,r he states:
"2)............the earliest uses of the tau-rho are not as such free-standing symbols, but form part of a special way of writing the Greek words for “cross” (stauros) and “crucify” (stauro-o), in NT texts which refer to the crucifixion of Jesus.
3) The tau-rho is not an allusion to the word “christos“.  Indeed, the letters have no relation to any terms in early Christian vocabulary.  Instead, the device (adapted from pre-Christian usage) seems to have served originally as a kind of pictographic representation of the crucified Jesus, the loop of the rho superimposed on the tau serving to depict the head of a figure on a cross.
4) So, contra the common assumption taught in art history courses, the earliest visual reference to the crucified Jesus isn’t 5th century intaglia, but this scribal device employed by ca. 200 CE. 
There's no denying that this scribal device is employed in some early Greek Scripture manuscripts. How early? With occurences, for example,  at Luke 9:23; 14:27,  P75 of the Bodmer Papyrii (imaged earlier) was originally dated as 175-200CE,. This early assignment has been recently challenged, where some favour a later date closer to the 4th Century. Other evidences, such as Chester Beatty's P45 manuscript is dated about 250CE, and contains this device at Matt.26:2 and also Luke 14:27. A further papyrus in the Bodmer colllection, P66, contains the staurogram in at least ten places in the papyrus (corresponding to chapter 19 of John's Gospel. Like P75, this papyrus is subject to similar discussion on it's antiquity, being more recently proposed as originating "in the early or middle part of the fourth century."
So, basically, we have a scribal insertion of a contemporary "Christian " symbol some 135-300 years after the establishing of the Christian congregation at Pentecost 33CE .
However, a disturbing comment is made regarding the staurogram on the Bible History Today page cited in the earlier post by @JWInsider at
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/the-staurogram/:
"The tau-rho staurogram, like other christograms, was originally a pre-Christian symbol. A Herodian coin featuring the Staurogram predates the crucifixion. Soon after, Christian adoption of staurogram symbols served as the first visual images of Jesus on the cross."
Larry Hurtado confirms this when discussing the Tau-Rho among other "Christian" symbols as he states: "these are all pre-Christian devices and were appropriated by early Christians." He also says "P45, P66 and P75 offer us evidence of a Christian appropriation of the tau-rho device that (whatever and whenever its origin) was already becoming familiar in Christian circles at the time that these copyists worked."  (Quotes from The Staurogram in Early Christian Manuscripts: The Earliest Visual Reference to the Crucified Jesus?)
Reference is made to Herodian coins issued about 37 BCE where the Tau Rho appears (apparently as some sort of date code?)
,
Jack Finegan, (The Archaeology of the New Testament. 1969) is referenced by Hurtado. In his book section The Cross. Abbreviations and Monograms, among other things, he cited Egyptian influences on the development and use of the Staurogram, likening it to the Egyptian ankh, a symbol of life. He presents an memorial inscription from a 4th Century tomb at Armant near Luxor on the NIle. Here the staurogram symbol is presented on the bottom 3rd right in line with the ankh and the Chi Rho symbol, (another "christogram). 

An additional aspect is the proposed influence of the use of isosephy in formulating the staurogram. This practice,  known also as gematria, seeks to find numeric relationships in words and concepts by assigning numeric values to letters and thus to words, then looking for parrallel meanings. An attempt is made to equate this to the reckoning of the wild beast's number of 666 in Rev.13:18. "Christian" Isosephists equate this number to the value determined for the name "Nero", their interpretation then misinterpreting the scripture. The staurogram is thus said by some to have a mystical significance in this regard. The whole practice has a ring of divination about it. Although Hurtado does not promote this view, it is not rejected as a contributory factor.
Whilst interesting and formidably detailed, these speculations on the early uses of staurogram symbols are not very convincing as to their relevance to genuine Christianity. It just cannot be that difficult to find the truth, if it is actually there. 
It seems that an early date for the use of these symbols as some propose is not clear at all, as the relevant papyrii whilst significantly old, are of disputed antiquity. There appears to be a pagan and superstitious influence at work in the appropriation of these symbols, for obscure reasons. It is clear from scripture that definite attempts to distort and corrupt the true Christian faith were well under way from earliest times, prior to the adoption of the "staurogram". Paul warns that "the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work", Peter warns that "the ignorant and unstable are twisting the...Scriptures", and John warns that "even now, many antichrists have appeared".  (Before we even get to Rev. Ch.2-3). The scriptures have no word for cross as such. Both stauros and xylon are simple words to understand, as is the background for the necessity of the use of this method for Christ's execution. There is no definitive way to conclude the exact nature of the instrument of Christ's death. The existence of the dispute complicates and obscures the very reason for Christ's sacrifice, a paucity of understanding on this matter being a prominent feature of many two-beamed cross promoters. On that basis, I remain satisfied  with the scriptural description as far as it goes, and the conclusion we draw on the likelihood of a single stake being the instrument of Christ's death. I will not be adding an extra beam to the account at this stage. ?

You beat me to it. I had to be out for most of today, but hoped to come back to @JOHN BUTLER to remind him that this is just my opinion based on the evidence. I lean one way because the evidence I've seen is slightly more convincing to me in that direction. But this does not mean that someone else (GB?) can't see the same evidence, and the majority of them lean the other way, per our own traditional stance on it since Rutherford's time.
To John, I would say that this Staurogram, and graffiti evidence too, cannot take us back much before 200 CE even if the evidence is exactly as old as some scholars still claim. As you point out from the words of Paul, even if evidence showed that this was as early as 50 CE, it still wouldn't be "proof." It could very well have been one of the ways in which "lawlessness" was already at work. After all, there is no doubt that the veneration of a cross symbol crosses the line into idolatry. And through syncretism with older traditions, the cross would have been a much more recognizable symbol with a richer history for veneration than a plain "I" symbol. And warnings about idolatry run from Paul's letters right up through (and througout) Revelation. 
You hit upon most (perhaps all) of the weaknesses of the Staurogram evidence, and these might have already been taken into consideration by those who have researched the current position as outlined in the WT publications.
The actual earliest evidence appears to be the argumentation in the Letter of Barnabas which scholars have not tried to date much later than 120 or 130. And there is no solid evidence to claim it was later than 75 or 80 either. "Barnabas" is big on gematria, of course, and this could even be one of the areas that letters to Titus and Timothy reference when they speak of things like being "obsessed with arguments and debates about words." (1 Tim 6:4). There's even a slim chance that it was this very book (and books like it) that were being challenged here and in Titus 3:9, etc.
Even so, it would not change the fact that a T shaped stauros is built into the argument as an aside, along with this early discussion of how T and then IH would create the number 318  (T=the stauros and the IH symbol which was already in use as a reference to IHSOUS -Jesus.)  Many years later in Christian copy of Genesis, the numer 318 comes up as the number of Abram's slaves:
(Genesis 14:14) 14 Thus Aʹbram heard that his relative had been taken captive. With that he mobilized his trained men, 318 servants born in his household, and went in pursuit up to Dan. The much later Genesis manuscript treats the number 318 here as a "nomina sacra" just as Barnabas had discussed upwards of 300 years earlier. BTW, I also wanted to mention that Hurtado deals with the fact that just because a scholar gave these terms the name "nomina sacra" it doesn't mean that they were all considered to be the equivalent of a Divine Name. Obviously, this is true of Stauros, which is nothing like a "divine name," but we also know that this was a development over many years, and there is no evidence that "Spirit" (pneuma) was added to the list until 400 or so. Also, there were many other names that only reminded them of Jesus or God, such as "Joshua the son of Nun" or even Moses, Abraham and David. So this wasn't intended as a complete discussion of "nomina sacra" by any means.
Although there are some weaknesses and flexibility as to the exact dates scholars try to pin on things, it doesn't (for me) change the balance of the evidence favoring one meaning over the other. And as we've already covered, there is no reason for anyone to claim proof or insist on any particular shape based on any of the evidence so far.

... and here comes to surface, to day light our own, personal Conscience Integrity, Intellect Honesty, Freedom of Speech among/inside WT Organization who, with GB, are standing on Dogmatic Standpoint, dogmatic stance that is ready to declare such, a different opinion as apostasy, and to dfd person because of that. 

Thank you. 

Wikipedia shows a simple staurogram on an oil lamp from Caesarea, now at a museum in Israel, that could have come from the 300's CE.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staurogram#/media/File:Nahsholim-Tel-Dor-3187.jpg
This was one of the pieces of evidence that made me think that some Christians, especially those with Jewish family backgrounds, might have found staurogram designs to be preferable to the type of graven imagery apparently forbidden in the Mosaic Law.
There is also early imagery like this:
The graffiti is dated to the late second century, likely within 100 years of the book of Revelation. It shows a man looking up to a donkey on a cross and says in Greek: “Alexamenos worships god.”
It's polemic, of course, depicting Jesus as a donkey. The book that @indagator recommended by Frank Shaw, discussed elsewhere, helps explain why Jesus was depicted as a donkey. The word for donkey seems to be a bit like onomatopoeia, like calling a donkey a "hee-haw" or "Eeyore". In Coptic the word for "donkey/ass" was EIO and the divine name known to have been used by Jews and evidently Christians and even pagans for the Jewish God was IAO [Ya'o/Yaho], the equivalent of "Yah" or "Yaho" [cf. Jah, Jaho, Jahowa].
Jewish and perhaps even Christian writers changed the names of pagan gods slightly so that they would sound insulting. (Compare Beelzebul, "Lord of the High Place," to Beelzebub, "Lord of the Flies."). The similarity between a word for "donkey" and the Jewish God's divine name made it a prime candidate for the same type of derision. And the Jewish name for Jesus contained both the divine name "Yaho" and the connected word for "Savior" or "Salvation." (Yaho-shuah/Joshua/Jesus means "Jehovah [Yaho] is Salvation.")
It was not because of the legend that "Your Savior will come riding on the back of a donkey" is the reason for the cross on the back of so many breeds of donkeys:

@JW Insider your information is fantastic but you are way above me on all of this. I'm such a simple man, BUT so are so many people.
My point being made is, so many people are 'simple' 'down to earth' 'not highly educated' 'not having all these Bible aids' and in honesty not capable of being able to do such research. Will none of you people understand ? Will none of you realise how much responsibility your GB has ? 
You GB sends you out to preach to people that have no knowledge or understanding of God's word. In fact as time goes on many people now have no knowledge of anything and some can barely read or write properly. Yes even here in the UK. 
You may say, it isn't the GB that sends you out, it is God through Jesus Christ. Yes of course it is, but the GB are the ones that 'feed' you the information that you should 'feed' to others. Hence the GB have people's lives in their hands. Your lives and the ones you preach to. 
If, as can be seen on the topics here, it is proved the GB tell lies, make mistakes, get things wrong. How is this being guided by God?  You  are going out with lies, false information, false hopes in some cases. Is this really how God and Jesus wants the work done ?