JOHN BUTLER

Risk assessment can be dramatically simplified with a 15 shot magazine, and two spares.

It is bad form to vote only for one party or another solely just because of party affiliation, that is when your in danger of voting strictly for politics rather than substance. Voting also doesn't mean you are choosing party or person over God, that is absurd to think that way. If that were true my favorite color would mean more to me than God because I voted green my favorite color.
 

It seems that 1999 was the last time the WTB&TS gave it's corporate guidance on this matter.
Anybody know about any current updates ... either via publications, talks, or actual practice?
I am thinking about voting in the November Senatorial Elections, here in the United States, with a clear conscience ... but I of course do not want to run afoul of the Congregation's Elders current conceptions or mis-conceptions, and be "burned at the stake".
uh .... so to speak.

ARE  WE  NOW  ALLOWED  TO  VOTE ?
The WTB&TS is involved in all kinds of political activity ... most recently having the Brotherhood of 8 million people and more (?) sent letters trying to persuade the Russian Federation to change its political policies towards Freedom of Religion, and non-interference with Jehovah's Witnesses. 
An estimated 64 MILLION of Jehovah's Witnesses letters flooded the country's leaders to try and get them to change their policies.
Unintended consequences of that gave the Russians approximately 11 boxcar loads of paper to dispose of  (firewood?), and through the Universal Postal Union's terminal duty contracts with all nations, 70% of the face value of the stamps, which amounted to 56 MILLION DOLLARS, CASH, of the Brotherhood's hard earned money. 
This does not count the time of about ( 64m x 20 minutes per letter  = 21,333 hours, or 10.3 "man years" ) of Jehovah's Witnesses time and productivity .... TO POLITICAL ACTIVITY.
My wife just told me that now ... the Society's policy is that voting is a matter of personal conscience .... where "before", it was strictly forbidden under pain of disfellowshipping.
I apparently have not kept up if this is true.
So my question is ... is this true ?
.... and if so ... why did the corporation policy change?
Are we now allowed to vote ?
 

So much for Jehovah not being a God of confusion.

Apologize, but what does this mean,  The GB have decided they cannot be dogmatic and claim what God's thoughts are. They doing that all the time, open publications and you will see how they impute such thing to Jesus, for example, while explaining this or that doctrine. 
"They decided"?. Please when and how they DECIDED not to be dogmatic. Did they making public statement about own Dogmatism? Or JW members get this impression how GB are not dogmatic any more as they been before?   :))

So when you go into the ministry you tell people that you might have the truth but you might not do you ? 

The cop out / loop hole is in what they say on page 9. Quote :  It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infalible".
That sound to me as if they are doubting their own explanations. They are saying their explanations could be wrong. If they doubt themselves, how are others supposed to believe them ? 
 
 

If we cut an apple in 4 pieces, 4 parts, are this 4 still an apple?
If we cut this 4 pieces of apple in more 4 and have 8 pieces, are they still an apple?
If we putt all this 8 parts or whole apple in blender, result will be.....? What? :))))))) Drink for apple lover.
 

When the Bible talks clearly about certain fundamental things like the future for mankind then I would hope that was correct enough for me to try and impart that same hope to others, in this wicked hopeless world. 

S.M please tell us, what is 'of the church' ?   What church ?  You quite often use this word 'Church' but it would be nice if you would define it. 
Some people think of the building they use as the church. Others think of the Apostles as being the church. So please make it clear exactly what you mean. Thank you

I do not understand this question at all.
Anyway, on the subject of truth, If you want to get down to basics that is, 
John 8:26: "As a matter of fact, the One who sent me is true,"
John 8:31-32 “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Romans 3:4 "But let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar"
So really what Jehovah tells us, through Christ, is true.  (2Tim3:16-17)
Other than that, (and there are many of these), our position is neatly summed up by Richard Feynman who I will quote again:  
" We never are definitely right, we can only be sure we are wrong."

It depends on the context of what is being discussed.
That is a philosophical aphorism which is true in a general case, for most things, most of the time.
ONLY
Feynman's statement should be taken in the context of what he was discussing at the time .... which was NOT Quantum Electrodynamics ( QED) ... but likely (?) the philosophy of how to think about Quantum Electrodynamics, and most other things ... most of the time.

J T you have a strange but funny sense of humour. But you don't make any sense to me. 
You more or less say that everything about the organisation is wrong, but you are sticking with it anyway.
Now, if i had a car that i really liked and it had been reliable for years, then suddenly the engine blew up.  I would replace the engine. But if the car was a wreck and kept going wrong and was dangerous, then the engine blew up, I'd scrap it and get a better car. 
In your version there are no other cars available, so the one and only car would need to be put right and used. 
But with the JW Org, the GB don't want the Org put right. You have said it, the GB want to be the only bosses and run it their way.  So how can you approve an organisation that brings Jehovah's name into disrepute ?  They DO NOT bring praise to Jehovah, they bring shame. They do not even protect their own congregants.     They do not show Love or Mercy.     So, in what way are they even serving God ?  Making God's name known just to shame it . 
The TRUTH is not the JW Org, it is Jesus Christ and God's written word.  John 14 v 6
 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
There is the TRUTH.  Unfortunately you seem to be stuck in that rut where the JW Org talk about being 'in the truth'. Being in the truth is surely serving God through Jesus Christ, NOT being a JW' 

I would think Jehovah can use any channel he pleases. For example even stones (Luke 19:14). So it would indeed be presumptuous on anyone’s part to assume THEY were the ONLY channel. The GB recognize themselves as the fds who is to provide spiritual food at the proper time on a global scale. Who is to say Jehovah isn’t using some individual in a remote part of the world to explain Bible truths, even if they are not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses per se.  The Bible is available for everyone to read, and if they are not influenced by false religious teachings, then individuals can find the truth, and can share it with others. So I think the criterion for being a channel God uses is that this channel has to impart basic truths from the Bible. So I would say any organization or person who for example teaches the trinity cannot be a channel used by God. But they do not have to know everything, as was evident in the case of Apollos (Acts 18: 24-26) where Priscilla and Aquila had to fill in the gaps for him. However, the Christian congregation was set up by Jesus to accomplish the ministry and for encouraging one another. So from then on followers of Christ  were gathered together for that activity and purpose and came to be known as the Christian congregation (Acts 11:26). To keep such an ever growing congregation of people sticking to the original beliefs would be quite a challenge and Jesus knew that eventually the Christian congregation would become corrupted until in the last days the when the true christian congregation would be revived again. The fundamental truths that every JW is familiar with was made known by the early Bible students from Russell onward.
I posted the following article several times before because it epitomizes the abdication of responsibility by Christendom to keep their Churches morally and spiritually clean. In contrast, Jehovah's Witnesses have not abdicated that responsibility and through the fda, as "guardians of the doctrine", are persevering in keeping the worldwide congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses as close to the first Christian congregation as possible.
QUESTION: How does the first century church compare to the church today?
ANSWER: In his letters to the first century church, the Apostle Paul commended each for excelling in the graces of God. Specifically, these first century churches were known for their faith, love, zeal, giving, knowledge, and intolerance for sin, as well as false doctrines. The first century church was united in spirit. Consequently, they were a conduit for the power of God as manifested in the miraculous signs and wonders performed through the apostles and for the apostles, in response to the prayers of the saints. The gospel of grace spread like wildfire, at tremendous cost to the early followers of Christ. The first century church was beset with persecution, torture, and martyrdom. In spite of this, Christian churches were being established throughout the Mediterranean region, Asia Minor, and into Europe.

Today's world is characterized by the last days events foretold by the Lord Jesus Christ in the twenty-fourth chapter of the Matthew's Gospel. Specifically, we are hearing of the "wars and rumors of wars," earthquakes, famines, and pestilences of which our Lord warned. It was foretold of the church in these last days, that (among many other things):
The "love of many" would "grow cold."
Many in the church would be "lovers of self" rather than lovers of God.
Many in the faith would be "offended."
The church would "have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof."
Last day Christians would have "itching" ears, would not "endure sound doctrine" and would have "many teachers."
In other words, the end times church (the organization) will include those who profess belief in Christ but who are, in fact, children of disobedience. The Lord Jesus Christ foretold of this reality in His parable of the "wheat and the tares."
Certainly, the early church had its problems, just as the church today. However, the early church was more diligent to identify and eradicate false doctrines than today's multi-denominational church. It was easier for the early church to discipline, or rid itself of those engaged in immoral activity. This could be because the early church was not as fragmented, or divided as the church of today."
From: allaboutreligion.org
 

John:
Knowing my failings, and I am an original Boy Scout, the cowboy in the white hat ... I don't think it is right to expect much of others.
I literally owe my life to the things I have learned that I could not have learned ANYWHERE else.
Remember the movie "Forest Gump"?
He was retarded and did EVERYTHING wrong .... but it turned out well for him.
I appreciate the 15% that the Organization does well ... and the core Theology which IS true.
I try to have realistic expectations concerning what they screw up to a fare-thee-well.
I work with a LOT of people I don't entirely approve of, or agree with, or even like.
I am just a different kinda sheep-like person than what you are used to.

Thank you JW Insider, for providing absolute proof. 
BillyTheKid46  would deny the existence of a car if it ran over his foot, because all his friends don't believe cars were ever invented.
I was there .... and as you know, there are literally whole CHAPTERS on this subject that have been posted in the past seven or so years, here on the Archive.
Any idea if it is possible to download the whole archive, since the beginning, to a large USB 4 TB hard drive?
It might come in handy to have some off-site copies, since the format and such has changed so many times...
I am having trouble keeping track of my cartoon and meme collection.
Thanks for the "heavy lifting".

Bill Nye is more of a "promoter" than a scientist. He definitely does not belong in the same category as Richard Feynman. I've read two of Feynman's books and they are really good, and reflect true science. I loved "What do you care what other people think?" because it draws non-scientists into his world.
Echos of your doppelgangers here. They always have said the same thing about the 1975 fiasco. It's true that no Watchtower literature ever contained a prediction that Armageddon would arrive in 1975. The point was that at some time in the 1970's we should expect Armageddon to be no further than a matter of months, not years, away.
*** km 9/73 p. 1 par. 4 Intensive Tract Distribution ***
Why is the distribution being done in such an intensive manner? Because of the impact that this will have on the public. People talk to one another, and they will soon realize that nearly everyone they know was served with the same urgent message. This will make a far deeper impression than would a gradual distribution over many months. Furthermore, we realize that the time remaining for this wicked world is greatly reduced. Opportunity for people to learn the truth and take their stand on Jehovah’s side is fast running out. *** km 5/74 p. 3 How Are You Using Your Life? ***
Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end. I started regular pioneering in the summer of 1973 and quit school even though I was technically still 15 years old, turning 16 before the next school year. I have to admit, it felt good being one of those statistics. My parents then, as a favor, sold our time-consuming farm worth about $50,000 (1974) at the time for only $10,000 to a brother and moved us all into the city. The brother we sold it to broke up the old farm acres into several subdivisions, got power and septic tanks to all the lots, and probably made a million dollars by now. He's no longer a Witness (and recently died too) but several Witness families still live on those acres.
And of course, quitting high school at age 15 was not just recommended by circuit overseers. It was the subtext of the following prophecy made in Watch Tower publications in 1969, preparing us for "What Will the 1970s Bring?":
**g69 5/22 p.15
"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. . . . . Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" Awake!1969 May 22 p.15  And all of it was based on a totally unbiblical belief that each of the 7 creative days were 7,000 years in length, which supposedly made it significant that we were evidently coming up on then being 6,000 years into that seventh day. Why ever bring up the 6,000 years since Adam if we weren't pushing its supposed but unbiblical significance?
*** w68 8/15 p. 499 pars. 29-30 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
That means, in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now (and not in 1997 as would be the case if Ussher’s figures were correct), it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam, the father of all mankind!   Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years. Then of course, in 1972 and 1973 the Watchtower promoted the "Ezekiel" book and other publications with the statement that the faithful and discreet slave was a prophet. Not just a "prophet" with quotes around it, but literally, a prophet. This was not very different from statements like this one in 1924 referring to Rutherford and another like him:
*** g1924 p.149 ***
" . . . Judge Rutherford is permeated with the real Biblical and prophetic spirit, ceases not in his discourse to defy the devil and throw (morally) an inkwell into his face, as the deceased Luther did. . . . This year 1924 is worse than 1914."

You should get a standing ovation for this comment. However are you still a JW ? I honestly can't remember what you've told us. 

It is amazing how Bible itself, and of course, especially  with help of interpretations made by church leaders and bible scholars, making confrontation inside book itself and inside people's mind. 
Obey your leaders and submit to them, VS Do not put your trust in princes nor in a son of man,
for they are keeping watch over your souls VS who cannot bring salvation

I knew it was false every time it was proposed, from the mid 60's forward ... and made fun of it .... but after a decade of constant reinforcement, even the commending of Brothers who sold their homes to Pioneer in the KM, and who took out loans they never expected to have to pay back, put off having families and dental care, and operations, and constant bombardment of "Stay alive 'till '75" .... and everyone I had grown up with in the Truth convinced that the end was just months away ... I reasoned "How could I be right, and EVERYBODY I respected, knew, and loved .... how could everybody else .... be wrong? 
I was at the best job I ever had, doing Surveying in the Congo, then called Zaire, and due to peer pressure from everything published, and talked about, decided I had to be home in Virginia when the end came, to be with my parents.  This was late 1974.
I caved in. I fell for the snow job.
Since then, in the past few years, recollecting the history that I personally experienced, I have come to the conclusion that I have to trust MYSELF first. 
I cannot trust anyone else .... especially those who have a one hundred year unbroken record of being consistently always wrong about EVERYTHING except basic core theology.
If the Governing Body makes proclamations or instructions, and they are wrong, about the end-times,  blood, personal integrity, sex between married couples, or any other issue (and they pretend to be experts on every subject imaginable...)  .... they have historically destroyed MILLIONS of lives... and when they are wrong ... THEY PAY NO PRICE WHATSOEVER.
I weep for all those who have been chased away from the Truth ... because the GB is obsessed with absolute drivel, self-aggrandizement, and on the ground ... where the "rubber meets the road", have completely negated their personal accountability, and Justice and Mercy
If I am wrong, I may die, but I can only be killed ONE TIME ... and I do not drag ten or a hundred thousand with me.  
Or chase a million with conscience away.
I alone will pay the price of being wrong.
 

Yes. I know exactly why but it would not (or should not) be of much interest to anyone here. Since I brought it up, it was not through anything conspiratorial, or finding out "where the bodies were buried" so to speak. [That's an inside joke about Rutherford, by the way.]  She merely had shown a bit too much ambition in trying to get higher profile assignments, which wasn't too much of a problem until she was caught interfering with the assignments that others got in the apparent hopes of accomplishing this end.

Who's arrangement, only the GB's.  Jehovah does not make such demands.  

@Anna Quote : I am sorry, there was no one announced at our hall for such a long time so I don't know how exactly the announcement is made anymore. I can assure you though it will be known that you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses because you do not agree with the organization. I remember someone was announced years ago, and everyone knew it was because he had differing views, and not because he had committed immorality or something like that. (End quote.)
I was wise enough to tell a few brothers what i was about to do, so at least they would know the truth. I gave only one of them the reason, but told others i was 'resigning'. However here is the stupidity of things shunning causes :- 
A man, a JW that i had helped many times as he was over 80 years old, though he is quite physically active.  Whilst i was still a brother i sold him a motorised bicycle. We had an agreement that if he decide he didn't really want it, that i would buy it back from him. 
A long time had passed since this business agreement. Then suddenly my wife has a text message on her mobile phone (cell phone to you guys i think). This being after i left the Org. The message is from this man, asking her to talk to me about me buying back this motorised bicycle. 
Two points here : -
1. The man should never have been given my wife's personal phone number, so whoever gave him the number was doing wrong.
2. It was a business agreement between the man and myself, not involving my wife. And my wife knew nothing about it and was not interested in getting involved in it. 
My wife gave me the information after getting over the shock of receiving the message, and I could see she was genuinely upset by him having her number. 
I emailed him quite politely telling him how my wife and i felt about it. I also agreed that if he contact me personally I would buy the item back from him.
Now, the questions must be, Why was he too frightened to contact me directly first time ? And, why has he not replied to my email ?
I know the answers of course.   He is frightened of being told off by the Elders of the congregation, for contacting me. 
I know this man well enough to know he is not frightened of me personally. And i know that we once had a really good friendship. It proves my point, that people are frightened of the Elders. 
There is a second case proving the same thing, but i will make it brief.
One of the brothers i told that I was resigning, visited me the Wednesday evening before the Thursday announcement. He promised me he would call back in 6 months time to see how i was doing. He has not been near my house since that Wednesday evening. Why ? Well once again it just proves my point, but in his case he has also proved himself a liar. He has broken his word. All because of fear of men, the Elders.
 
 

Brother Jackson said a lot of things, including basically admitting that the GB are not the only spokesman God is using. 
Governing Body Unwittingly Condemned
Mr. Stewart then asked pointedly if the Governing Body views itself as Jehovah’s spokespeople on earth.
Brother Jackson does not vacillate this time, but states, “That, I think, would seem to be quite presumptuous, to say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using.”
With those words, Brother Jackson is unwittingly labeling the Governing Body as presumptuous. Here is the official position of the Governing Body with regards to its role before God. [Italics added]
“Jehovah gives us sound counsel through his Word and through his organization, using the publications provided by “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45; 2 Timothy 3:16) How foolish to reject good advice and insist on our own way! We “must be swift about hearing” when Jehovah, “the One teaching men knowledge,” counsels us through his channel of communication.” (w03 3/15 p. 27 ‘The Lips of Truth Will Endure Forever’)
“That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end.” (w13 7/15 p. 20 par. 2 “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?”)
Theocratic appointments come from Jehovah through his Son and God’s visible earthly channel, “the faithful and discreet slave” and its Governing Body.” (w01 1/15 p. 16 par. 19 Overseers and Ministerial Servants Theocratically Appointed)
However that 'faithful slave' and the GB are one and the same now, as the rest of the Anointed are pushed to one side.
So there you have it. As I've said before the scripture at Luke 14 v 11 
For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”