Thinking

On 6/24/2024 at 9:37 AM, Miracle Pete said:

You really do have a monstrous ego.

 

What a joy you must be to those in your congregation. Although I still do not believe you are a real witness. 

That spirit had nothing holy about it…more like a dark entity..

On 6/24/2024 at 9:37 AM, Miracle Pete said:

You really do have a monstrous ego.

 

What a joy you must be to those in your congregation. Although I still do not believe you are a real witness. 

No nor do I…..but he keeps the forum active I suppose.

On 6/25/2024 at 6:27 AM, JW Insider said:

BTK can correct me if I'm wrong, but a person who remembers Russell's time in a meaningful way would have to have been born at least around 1904 just to be 12 years old when Russell died. That would make him 120 years old this year. My conversations with @BTK59, @George88, @AllenSmith35, etc., have led me to believe that he is closer to 65 years old. This might not be true, but it's based on a couple of things he has said. 

That said, he does without a doubt have knowledge about Russell and early Bible Students.

Yes yes I know..I did the maths too…I was trying to be nice…..one is dealing with “ One flew over the Cookoo’s nest”…..here…

On 6/24/2024 at 1:43 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

He did say it. He also made it clear that the DFing was on this own insistence, that his elders didn’t want to, and they acquiesced only after he badgered them repeatedly. Seems he had a little legal matter coming up and he didn’t want it to reflect badly upon God’s name should it not turn out well. Odd, really, to fall on his own sword in that way, when no one asked it of him.

It is due to these circumstances that I and some others have had as much to do with him as we have. Alas, I can picture BTK walking out of the KH in discuss after that recent update advocating civil treatment of disfellowshipped ones.

 

On 6/24/2024 at 1:43 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

He did say it. He also made it clear that the DFing was on this own insistence, that his elders didn’t want to, and they acquiesced only after he badgered them repeatedly. Seems he had a little legal matter coming up and he didn’t want it to reflect badly upon God’s name should it not turn out well. Odd, really, to fall on his own sword in that way, when no one asked it of him.

It is due to these circumstances that I and some others have had as much to do with him as we have. Alas, I can picture BTK walking out of the KH in discuss after that recent update advocating civil treatment of disfellowshipped ones.

 

it has always been my understanding that the elders would not disfellowship him even tho he asked to be. No matter  of the confusion …I would still talk with him as I have done previously and I wish the man well…

He fell on his sword for the sake of others and peace..

I’m surprised it’s not possible to open up a new thread on the closed club …the topics section seems to be gome….sorry didn’t know where to put this..

3 minutes ago, BTK59 said:

Do you trust James, who openly stated that he was disfellowshipped, which contradicts your previous statement? It was you who initiated the altercation, so the responsibility to maintain self-control lies with you, not me. Henceforth, I have no intention of wasting any more of my time with you.

Okay xx

10 minutes ago, BTK59 said:

If James himself has explicitly stated something as a certainty, then your personal opinion is irrelevant. Therefore, we must decide whether to believe you, a nonconformist, or James.

It seems that you are being held responsible for not sharing the message of Jesus and the Christian faith with someone. Now, you are attempting to rationalize James' expulsion by comparing it to the actions of the apostles. This appears to be unchristian behavior and thinking.

I don’t even know what you are talking about….and yes I believed James….please let’s not get antagonised with each other….your really old and I’m old….we are wasting time…

3 minutes ago, BTK59 said:

Do you view my statement as an accusation, similar to the baseless claims you've made before? Or are you highlighting your support for an excommunicated person, which contradicts the principles established by Paul?

Are you talking about the accusation James faced in court? Can you provide more details about your accusation?

Give me PROOF of his disfellowshipping…...

11 hours ago, BTK59 said:

I believe it is essential for people to question how Tom perceives himself as a witness, particularly considering all his questionable and multiple accounts. Is it not a grim thought that God might consider you to be superior to Him?

I consider you and Tom superior to myself and I think he is a fantastic writer…he’s very good at his love of writing,,,,,more importantly he is a very good and trustworthy servant of Jehovah …and he’s humble and even admits he came here and was humbled….and I know him to be very gracious and kind also a little sarcastic at times,( I’m worse )

Forums can make you stronger or humbled and wiser or break you totally….they can also make one sarcastic nasty bombastic bitchy and frustrated …..( I can be guilty of all) but I’ve learnt things and got to  know some who I have affection for,,,and sure hope we meet at some time in that New World tho I think ..and I bet we wouldn’t mention anything that’s been discussed on this forum,,

23 hours ago, BTK59 said:

This is a weak argument, especially considering that Apostle Paul was explicit about God's intentions when he declared "have nothing to do with them." Therefore, instead of using your own emotions and misbehavior to rationalize going against God, it is better to refrain from dishonoring Him and tarnishing the reputation of the Watchtower.

Loving your enemy does not imply forming an association with them, as you are suggesting. If you had taken the time to pay attention to my previous comment about expressing concern for his well-being, you would realize that it demonstrates the concept of loving your enemy without any personal ties. I am not in favor of the decisions he made that caused him to encounter legal issues.

Do you have PROOF of your accusations….as far as I have seen over the years you dont……I am well aware that Jehovah is a reader of our hearts and minds…in my nearly fifty years…I should have been disfellowshipped many many times…what about you brother…have you always honestly been  pure in your heart and mind…….is anyone ?

On 6/22/2024 at 10:29 PM, BTK59 said:

The example given showed individuals who are incorrigible, aside from those depicted by Tom. Have you not just admitted that you are fond of someone who has been disfellowshipped? I believe this has just proven my point. Furthermore, it speaks volumes when a former Bethelite supports your viewpoint.

 

Yes I am fond of Pudgy..tho I’ve never had proof he was disfellowshipped….I would have still been especially fond of Peter even after he three times betrayed his Christ ….who as we know never disfellowshipped him…I don’t know who I’m really talking with…as to your name but your personality is familiar to me.

Actually I think you are very clever and knowledgeable with the scriptures and  Jehovah’s Witness’s and going by what you have said you must be very old. And go back a long way…I love your old historical memories and I have learnt from you a number of times and even upvoted you…..I wish I had your astute knowledge brother and your recall of scriptures…you certainly have a treasure with them.

But I do feel also sorry for you as you do not know Jesus very well..you lack the depth of his love. In our cong we had elders who said ….three strikes and your out…so many young ones were disfellowshipped . Most lost to the world but some survived it….Peter would have been disfellowshipped by them also and I have a feeling you would be like them.

You need to keep up with the new understandings and thoughts of the GB…they are teaching the real love that Jesus showed to those others considered ..good for nothing…they are really really pushing how we need to be kind to each other and even show kindness to those disfellowshipped…or did you miss that point.

Im preety sure you won’t change..but I wish you would be a little more gentle with people…I’m not an apostate and nor are the others you mentioned….but at least you and JWI and a couple of others keep this forum surviving….I would personally still love to hear about your experiences and memories of Russell’s time etc…as they are invaluable..

At least the conversation between you and JWI gives two sides to the coin….and each has good points to learn so I’ve learnt from both of you.

On 6/21/2024 at 5:59 AM, BTK59 said:

Yet, the list should be: Tom. JWI, Anna, Thinking, Comfortmypeople, Juan Rivera, etc. So, telling the truth only seems corrupt to those causing it.

Sheeesh…I didn’t even say anything 🫤

On 6/14/2024 at 10:49 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

They tell me that brothers giving that talk in his area routinely point to him as a cautionary tale.

Not a word from him. It’s almost like the removal of the constant feature. That is the downside of online relationships. They disappear one day and you haven’t a clue why.

Hopefully, one of the roaming hogs bit his hand and as soon as it heals up we will hear from him again.

I hope pudgy is okay but I’m fearing the worse……I really like pudgy…

On 6/9/2024 at 8:02 AM, JW Insider said:

 I couldn't agree more, Kimball. 

(Proverbs 6:16-19) ¹⁶ There are six things that Jehovah hates; Yes, seven things that he detests: ¹⁷ Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, ¹⁸ A heart plotting wicked schemes, and feet that run quickly to evil, ¹⁹ A false witness who lies with every breath, And anyone sowing contentions among brothers.

Haughty eyes: Most of us have failed at times in thinking more of ourselves than we ought to think. But there are several accounts on this forum that quickly come to mind when most of us think of haughtiness: persons who constantly boast that they are the only true Witness here and who spend most of their time denigrating others, sometimes even indicating that there is only one sincere individual on the entire forum, and the weighty responsibility that this one person has taken on.

A lying tongue is harder to judge from a distance. Except for certain claims that have appeared to be ridiculous, or which have been later contradicted by the same person (sometimes under a different account name), no one can tell whether a person is "lying" or just has issues where reality gets mixed up and overridden through an obsession with their own ulterior motives. You can often suspect when a person is plotting to manipulate or using wordplay and technicalities to deceive, but we can't always judge whether the motive was defending something they don't themselves understand, grasping at straws and strawmen and logical fallacies, but without the true willful motivation of lying. We leave this one in Jehovah's hands. 

Hands that shed innocent blood. Fortunately, on a forum like this few will physically murder anyone. Some will take on personas like B.T.K. or Billy The Kid, known for shedding innocent blood, but this is just their own form of fantasy gunplay. There is a concern that is sometimes brought up that if someone brings up a controversial doctrine here (like chronology date setting related to the times and seasons, or "overlapping generations" or "pyramidology") that this alone will stumble persons and they will no longer respect the Watchtower or the Governing Body, which in turn can lead to their falling away and losing eternal life. That's a valid concern, but this can be taken so far as to be the equivalent of a claim that no one should read books, or read the old Watch Tower publications, or Russell-related court documents, or newspapers, or use Google or Bing. When all the same controversial information is available from Mr. Google, what does it matter if another person brings it up here? If there's a good answer to the controversy, then where else but to bring it up online, where the controversy can exist side-by-side with the truth about it. A person would only likely be upset about this if they want to continue to believe a perspective that they cannot defend. 

And anyone sowing contentions among brothers. I skipped a couple to get right to the big one. It's interesting to me that this is the one that ends the list, giving it special emphasis as if it tops off all the rest and somehow becomes tantamount to shedding innocent blood. When it comes to this forum, I believe that most persons only think of ONE person, and that person's DOZENS of accounts over that last 10 years. The person might mean well. They might even think they are a vigilante appointed by God to be a Wyatt Earp, N.K.Boswell, Walter Prescott, Moise Racette style lawman in a Wild Wild West World Wide Web. But it's worth considering why God would even want someone so prone to contentiousness to be his one and only spokesman of truth on a backwater no-account forum like this.

I have always felt guilty and scared when I read that scripture…in nearly 45 years that feeling has never changed………same feelings happen when I open the door to someone just about to knock the door down with their harsh knocking and find the police standing there…….the first thing they say is ..don’t worry you have havent done  anything wrong ( there had been break ins at our neighbours)

hope you pick another scripture that puts a smile on my face or makes me laugh 😆 

26 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I'm trying to see your perspective here, and it made me go back and look through the threads that I remembered him in pretty well. I was surprised to notice that in the worst-case posts I had recalled, that he wasn't the one who started it. Others were being nasty, and calling him a "fool" before he responded in kind, but he was less apt to watch his vocabulary even if others were escalating. I also noticed that he was adamant that someone should try to respond to his point rather than constantly dodging and weaving and diverting. 

But I recall once seeing him refer to Arauna as foolish in a chronology topic, and either Tom or I let him know he was picking on "sweet old lady." (Sorry if that offends, Arauna.) He responded that it didn't matter how old anyone is, if they is going to spout nonsense with such conviction, then age is no excuse; she is going to hear where she is wrong. 

It's true that it's easier to ignore empathy and emotion in an online discussion if you are just here to defend your [strong] opinions against the [strong] opinions of others. I know a couple of people who are brilliant intellectually, but who are "on the [autism] spectrum" and have that exact trouble in real life, and they are always getting in trouble with others. I counseled one who has problems at work because he does OK with others in a meeting format, and one-on-one, but he writes scathing emails, and raises his voice with co-workers on the phone. I had also noticed that at meetings he did better when he looked at people's faces when disagreeing with them. I told him about this, as a way to help, but he said he grew up with "Asperger's" and would never look at a person's face when he talked to them. 

As a moderator I remember having to warn Alan a couple of times and sent that warning up the flagpole to the admins:

But who's counting? LOL

Unlike others who got warnings (who would dig in their heels and get suspended), AlanF would respond humbly and contritely and explain himself without making excuses.

 

Can you share some of his good posts…..was he billy the kid once? 

10 hours ago, Anna said:

What?

It’s an old teaching..may or not be true ..I have see even studies  from the world concerning this 

3 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

I notice whenever I ask this question, no one ever answers it. 

They carried a donkey full of scrolls I presume….

2 hours ago, George88 said:

Sure they did. It's called nose hair. Ha! Ha!

As I mentioned before, the organization should consider allowing women to have hairy armpits to blur the lines between traditional femininity and feminist expression. We could even take it further by allowing women to embrace their natural leg hair and wear provocative clothing to challenge societal norms. If certain witnesses are going to criticize us for embracing change, why not challenge conventions on every front, including dress codes? Why not allow elders to dress and smell however they like?

Scripture states that we should present ourselves as approved by God. However, should we remove this clause as it is being promoted by inappropriate individuals?

In this manner, the Watchtower will be indistinguishable from False Religion (Christendom). The attitudes being expressed here mirror those of the Pharisees and false religion, enabling a select few to align with the organization without acknowledging their hypocrisy in attempting to dictate when they refuse to be dictated to. The sources of knowledge being embraced by individuals here are indeed intriguing.

 

a brothers nightmare …

16 hours ago, xero said:

My point is that when you can take what amounts to everything but the cell wall, just so long as you do it in small enough pieces just sounds to any unindoctrinated observer as pharisaical nit picking. 

 

You must be a vegetarian then.?

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Oh them…lol…yes I think them rather Uuuk…

1 hour ago, xero said:

Soul patches and hair donuts should be grounds for immediate disfellowshipping and so should those with man-buns.

What’s a soul patch.?

21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Many this kind of nonsense has to be hashed out before another leg of influx can begin. Sort of like the hundredth year anniversary of hauling out the nonsense that was trinity and hellfire. After all, Pudgy has pointed out that, given that this is the truth—that is, the collection of teachings so that the Bible makes sense, you would people would be beating down our doors to get it, rather than the reverse.

Somewhere on social media there is the list, counting time—crossed out, no-beards—crossed out, and next on the list is ‘ties.’ I can’t see these ever being crossed out, but maybe we can reach the point of not insisting upon wearing them in the jungle (rain forest).

There are many on line who will gloat over the fall of us as a people….let them..they forget they may be getting sifted as well.

11 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Many this kind of nonsense has to be hashed out before another leg of influx can begin. Sort of like the hundredth year anniversary of hauling out the nonsense that was trinity and hellfire. After all, Pudgy has pointed out that, given that this is the truth—that is, the collection of teachings so that the Bible makes sense, you would people would be beating down our doors to get it, rather than the reverse.

Somewhere on social media there is the list, counting time—crossed out, no-beards—crossed out, and next on the list is ‘ties.’ I can’t see these ever being crossed out, but maybe we can reach the point of not insisting upon wearing them in the jungle (rain forest).

We sometimes don’t wear them over here..especially in stinking hot summers.

4 hours ago, Many Miles said:

I/2 is a fraction. Right? Is 1/2 the parts that constitute "soul" soul?

Oh, and cryosupernatant is, as a fraction, MORE than 1/2 the circulating blood in your veins this very moment. Is cryosupernatant "blood"?

Oh, and white cells are, as a fraction, about 1/100 of the circulating blood in your veins this very moment. Is white cells "blood"?

Crazy talk…all you do miles is try to confuse with false intellectual talk…your very good at it …..i think your a straight out stirrer…that lacks even common sense…. I shall be blocking you as I think you are a very sly man……you came on here with one purpose in mind…..so I’ll leave you too it,

9 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I think this is true. A lot of people have made the argument that blood is 80% water, or that the major component called plasma is 90% water, and we know there is nothing wrong with water. This is still a bad argument.

It reminds me of what David might have said if some of his men said, "David, you said you wanted water, and a lot of men were bleeding, but we found a way to separate the water from their blood. Here! Won't you have this bottle of water we got for you?

Some of these posts are as dumb as I’ve ever seen….