9 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Dmitar spends so much time and effort here, I highly doubt he has anything else going on in his life. This is probably his “last hurrah!”, of a person absolutely terrified of dying alone and unremembered.…. just a guess.

I hope that’s not true too …I would be genuinely sad over that..

2 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

The random thought occurred to me when Dmitar said he was going to leave the Archive on April 2, perhaps he had surgery scheduled  and did not expect to survive it. Merely a passing thought, no more.

I honestly hope that is not true…

16 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Oh well … I thought it was a very reasonable conclusion, since you said Fred Fran’s was your teacher …

How when and where do you convene these committees?

That comment of his says a lot…

14 hours ago, Arauna said:

Accusations my dear.   I did not intend to defend her.  Another misassumption on your part. You know very well who is the father of false accusations. 

I think I could  have have a pretty good debate with you about the universal laws of Jehovah by just using the Mosaic law and universal principles taught by Jesus - but I would not risk the nastiness.  You are NOT qualified to teach as you do not have any patience and you have no kindness or love. If I could learn something from you - you are sure to go and mess it up with total loss of self-control regarding accusations and reviling.  

I can only read a little of what he says in your answer Arauna…..he is right…I was wrong…and I admit that..and I shouldn’t Have written it the way I did….so Ditmar…you are right…I must endure your whipping…it was deserved.

4 hours ago, Pudgy said:

It is my understanding that the monstrously large shark of prehistoric times, the Megalodon could, if available, eat a school bus.

Well we will all find out eventually in the New System of things ( I promise I won’t say..I told you so ) 😄

31 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I hope you can recall that the bible said: narrow is the road.....  - the holy spirit should help you recall this scripture and help you to leave off the felicitous and acidic remarks. Sometimes you are funny - but there is a time for everything. 

Unfortunately, I am a Christian who likes all kinds of people and can even put up with a few very nasty ones. But I am one of those who find myself. per occasion. to be nasty to those who respect nothing holy.  

Our fellow worshippers were talking about Dmitar above (I assume so).  I have also been unkind to him on a few occasions because of him insisting to be totally obnoxious at times - mostly unfounded.  I have tried to reach out to him.... but he does not respond to any form of kindness or even agreement. He puts himself above all of that.

You are similar.  You always have to turn everything into a inappropriate joke and there is little kindness or responsiveness to things wholesome.   I wish I could hear a little wisdom from your mouth. I would listen.  I am sure it is somewhere deep inside but it seems you will lose face if you do show your vulnerable side.

I think we all just need to go for a coffee….or do remote witnessing….sort of trapped in a car all together…lol…I reckon it would work too…🤗

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

It appears here that you are claiming to be an Elder of Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

If this is true, it would go far in explaining why it takes 22 “man-years” of witnessing to get ONE Jehovah’s Witness to stay his entire lifetime, and why 73% leave.

 

Not many listened to Jesus Pugsy..and none of the original Israelites other than Joshua and Kaleb survived or were found acceptable to Jehovah…as to the 73% who leave…I dont know if that number is correct..but that narrow road is preety hard to stay on with one’s like this brother…..and others just cannot be bothered.

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I understand what you are saying, and for a while, I would have agreed that he was not a real Witness, and that he was only a counterfeit to make Witnesses look bad. I know that other Witnesses here also "disown" him from the ranks of baptized Witnesses. I suspect that his personality has already made trouble for himself with the elders, and that this is one of the reasons he reaches out here. Like the guy who gets yelled at when he's at work, and must find a dog to kick when he gets home.

But I think the matter is more complex with him. On the most visible level it appears that he is a living embodiment of the works of the flesh, and the opposite of every fruit of the spirit.

(Galatians 5:19-26) . . .Now the works of the flesh are plainly seen, and they are sexual immorality, uncleanness, brazen conduct, ²⁰ idolatry, spiritism, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, dissensions, divisions, sects, ²¹envy, ... ²² On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, ²³ mildness, self-control. ...²⁶ Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another.

But I think there are other "layers" when you peel back the onion, so to speak. I see difficult issues of a struggling Witness, and I think he is constantly, if inadvertently, giving us hints about these struggles. We might think that we'd never witness such levels of wrath and reviling and name-calling within a congregation, but I've seen such things manifest in otherwise well-meaning brothers within the Writing Department at Bethel. I won't name names here, but sometimes brothers in the most responsible positions --persons I normally thought of as loving-- could actually turn "vicious" against even the most mild-mannered and peace-loving brothers. But, right or wrong, it was usually because they were seeing something they felt was a spiritual danger to the brotherhood. Unfortunately, this could be taken so far that brothers in responsible positions even felt that admitting a mistake could constitute a spiritual danger to the organizational arrangement.

This is the level where I find some of Ditmar's wrath understandable. He has seen some of the things that I have said, you have said, Arauna, Tom, Anna, etc., that are very disturbing to him. It's because he feels the need to be a kind of "hero" that fights when there is any perceived "attack" against the organization. He is the "Billy-the-Kid, Wyatt-Earp-styled gunslinger of the old American West" hunting out all possible forms of dangerous thinking.

I've seen this hero complex before, and I agree that it tends to offer no more than haughty, puffed-up knowledge (but often just pretentious bluster) instead of love. If you have ever followed the early on-line history of one calling himself scholar_jw here or even Rolf Furuli, you'll see the same thing. They are hoping to be "heroes" to defend the less defensible traditions. Even some of the "fringe" Witnesses who have been here, and who offer their unique interpretations of prophecies --and who evidently think they are defending WTS doctrines-- will often show a real "mean streak" when their date predictions are questioned.

But I also see that kind of ego revealed in the sound of my own words, and sometimes in anyone else who questions a current teaching or practice. So, in spite of what I don't appreciate about him and others like him, I thought it was only fair to also offer anything positive about him. It was intended as a kind of one-sided "eulogy" if he is really leaving the forum.

I have had the exact same thoughts as you have expressed….hence at times trying hard to understand him and upvote his considerable knowledge.

I can also perceive a jealousy when he sees a bond between most of us….I get that…I can tolerate that….but when one kills people off and condemns  them spiritually …and runs others off….without even a hint of remorse…there is something terribly wrong.

Then at some stage someone needs to step up and say enough….stop.

Because kindness has not worked

I dont doubt what you seen at bethel….but at some stage someone pulled those brothers up before they killed each other…and reigned them in.

If he is a brother…then I would like nothing more than have peace with him..I also agree he has great knowledge but he abuses it..and it’s a shame… because it’s wasted.

I dont doubt it when he said he was taught by Franz….but beating brothers and sisters does not keep them on the narrow road…

53 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

Years ago, I took my family to a Renaissance Faire, where people walk around in costumes from the 1500s and 1600s, and they have Shakespearean plays, and jousting contests on horses, fake sword fights, all for entertainment  … and vendors selling giant turkey legs, etc.  Sorta like walking through a medieval village in England.  The entrance to the Renaissance Faire looks like a castle and is attended by thousands of people, who pay for this.

I paid a costumed Professional Insulter $5 to insult me and his non-stop invectives for five solid minutes were blistering, embarrassing, and took insulting to all new levels that I did not even know existed. But it was all in good fun and I laughed and laughed with a sense of wonder about how he could possibly think of such things.

The thing about Dmitar’s insults is that they’re just plain malicious and hateful with no redeeming social value. Actual slander.

Malignant.

Well thank you..for I thought I must be going nuts or have thin skin …but I would have to say there is no excuse for cruelness…and at some stage someone needs to stop such..because it cannot come from a source or spirit as Jehovah …

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, of course, Thinking's thesis about a special law for angels, and a special one for people, is not probable. Because both types of creatures have free will,  and they interact with each other according to Bible text. 

It is this/those characteristic that connects them more than anything else (life form, place of life and abilities) separates them.

I never said special laws I said different laws….one law ( applied to mankind ) when disobeyed  resulted in death that would be considered the first death for mankind …there was hope of recovery from that death due to Jesus ransom.

The same law when applied to the angels who sinned …had a different outcome there was no hope of recovery for them….their deaths will result In The second death .

My apologies if my wording was confusing,,,not that I think your at all genuine Sereko…I don’t,

2 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

During periods of extreme famine in China, the Chinese people would eat dirt.

However, I would not characterize them as dirt eaters, normally.

Your getting desperate pudgy …

54 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Well I’m just going by the Bible…but if you want to read up on this there are books that prove your belief wrong…And stop Yelling at me 

Taken from Gizmodo site

Researchers recently set out to determine the diet of 90 different theropod species. They were expecting to find a lot of meat-eating - after all, theropods are known informally as the predatory dinosaurs. But even confirming that hypothesis would be tricky because so little evidence of dinosaur diet remains.

Teeth do often pass into the fossil record, but it's not always easy to figure out diet based on just teeth. While the sharp teeth and jaw of a T. rex is obviously that of a fearsome superpredator and the blunt teeth of a Triceratops obviously belong to a plant eater, a lot of dinosaur teeth fall somewhere in the middle. A lot of therapod dinosaurs have strange, peg-like teeth which seem less than ideal for either a carnivorous or herbivorous existence, so figuring out what they ate becomes a real challenge.

This is just a small sample I quickly found on line that big teeth in dinasours and sharks DOES NOT prove they were always carnivores…it’s a bit of an eye opener to see what they are now understanding about such huge massive apparently violent creatures.

7 hours ago, Pudgy said:

HaHAHHAHAAAAAHAHAHAH!

You are obviously getting your theology from the movie “The Lion King”, or Disney cartoons, where they dance and sing, and there is an orchestra in the background.

Ever look at the teeth of a T-Rex?

or the teeth of a shark?

THINK!!!!

 

The bonnethead shark, a relative of the hammerhead, absorbs nutrients from the seagrass it eats, making it the first known omnivorous shark.

Biologists had previously noticed that bonnetheads consume copious amounts of seagrass in addition to crustaceans and other shellfish. But because the bonnethead’s digestive system looks almost identical to other meat-eating sharks – and so seems to be best suited to deal with a high protein diet – scientists always assumed the seagrass ingestion was accidental.

To better understand these sharks’ diet, Samantha Leigh at University of California …

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2178549-weve-discovered-a-shark-that-eats-plants-as-a-side-dish-to-shellfish/#ixzz7OsVgGG00

19 hours ago, Pudgy said:

…. Not if those paid better attention than Adam and Eve did. 

50/50 chance of it….already proved by Abel and Cain…the rot would only increase as time went on..Jehovah knew that..

6 hours ago, Pudgy said:

HaHAHHAHAAAAAHAHAHAH!

You are obviously getting your theology from the movie “The Lion King”, or Disney cartoons, where they dance and sing, and there is an orchestra in the background.

Ever look at the teeth of a T-Rex?

or the teeth of a shark?

THINK!!!!

 

Well I’m just going by the Bible…but if you want to read up on this there are books that prove your belief wrong…And stop Yelling at me 

6 hours ago, Pudgy said:

When you make statements like this, you lose credibility for your previous statements, at least among all of us who have seen the great joy animals have playing with each other and living their lives.

I suggest you go to a store someplace where there is a box of puppies and observe them.

For over a half a century I have directly observed animals of all sorts that are very happy, and obviously so, all day every day and they enjoy their lives.

To the best of my knowledge, your knowledge, or anybody’s knowledge alligators may be the world’s best mathematicians, and we would never know it.

She would only lose credibility if you lived In The animal kingdom ..as it would not have the intellect to read it…such a disadvantage to being a puppy..

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Several people here have understood you to say that you plan to leave this discussion forum soon, or perhaps at least the name "Ditmar" will be leaving the forum. If this is true, I wanted to say that I have found things you have said on certain subjects to be valuable. I might have never looked at the apocryphal book of Judith, for example, if it had not been for your serious utilization of that book. I typically don't try to access commentaries from the late 1700's and early 1800's but have made exceptions after you have quoted from them. These excursions often take me to some additional books that you quoted from or where your sources provide footnotes to other resources. I have learned a lot from them.

You often quote interesting information that sends me searching for where you got it from. I will honestly miss some of this.

I find the intensity and zeal and emotion with which you defend the faith to be unmatched, and it makes me wonder sometimes if there were not perhaps examples like this in the first century where we sometimes read of "sharp bursts of anger," or the disciples like James and John who were also given the name ' Bo·a·nerʹges, which means “Sons of Thunder.” ' You have made me wonder about the range of characteristics among Christian congregations in all ages.

Naturally, since this is a discussion forum, I will often make it known when I think a Biblical or even a secular idea is being misrepresented or exaggerated. I thank you for engaging on topics that many others find too tedious to attempt.

On the other hand, from everything you've said, I already know what you'll think of any counsel or criticism that comes from me. But this doesn't mean I must hold back from giving it, just as you don't seem to hold back much. I won't try to make a list of things I find disagreeable, but as you move along from here to other places, I do hope that you will consider a couple of things:

I think you will likely find it easier to make important points and get them across if you spend less time picking fights with others, or repeatedly reviling others to prove your superiority or knowledge. In the past I would have pointed out other things I noticed, too, but I've seen what I perceive as real improvement on several of those other things I've complained about in the past.  I think the one habit of yours that gets in your own way the most is "projection." When you do something wrong (like pick fights, revile others, or look for little ways to cause contention) you apparently want to blame others for the same thing. You seem to always want to make these things someone else's problems instead of owning up to them yourself.

By "projection" of course I mean in the sense of the definition found here:

Projection

Reviewed by Psychology Today Staff

Projection is the process of displacing one’s feelings onto a different person, animal, or object. The term is most commonly used to describe defensive projection—attributing one’s own unacceptable urges to another. For example, if someone continuously bullies and ridicules a peer about his insecurities, the bully might be projecting his own struggle with self-esteem onto the other person.

Other than those issues, I think I'll really miss a lot of what you have been able to offer over the years.

Knowledge is not what is most important JWI….if he behaved in the KH as he does here..he would be spiritually  counselled by the elders…once and perhaps twice…and if he continued to slander other brothers and sisters and bully them and call out numerous ones as liars etc he would be disfellowshipped for that.

Any witness…real witness must conduct themselves at a reasonable level of Christian conduct …ANYWHERE….even on a forum..you cannot excuse any witness of incredibly bad ….repeatedly bad behaviour …just because he offers up some good info…of which I agree…and have even upvoted….just because he is on a forum.

Satan himself would offer up as good a argument..and even better..but we would not sit at his table with him.

Tho I have blocked this so called brother I can follow the gist  of this argument…

Even tho his knowledge is good and his defence at times admirable…it is rubbed away..and deleted by his conduct and absolutely incredible slander and abuse to other brothers and sisters here.

In doing that he actually backs up in a way others who deliberately lie about witnesses…he is helping and aiding their hated and confusion of nearly every witness on this forum and the brotherhood.

The woman who followed Jesus around continually crying out that this is Indeed the Son of God ….actually caused Jesus such irritation even tho speaking highly of him and in fact truths ..frustration enough to demand the demon with in her to depart.

Giving himself and his followers a measure of peace..even tho she had only cried out truths.

Do you think this person can really be a brother..going by his fruits displayed over a long period of time.
I openly admit he has much more knowledge of the scriptures than I…but I have had to walk away from this person because of the harm he does to the truth in his behaviour.

I have never seen such behaviour anywhere in over four decades in the truth and being on a forum is not a free for all as some seem to think….not for a witness of a Jehovah …not for a true witness.

And for those that disagree with me…then I ask you to invite him onto your personal Facebook pages or into your homes….or perhaps arrange to meet him at your or his Kingdom Hall…or for a coffee.

See if he turns up…he’s a con job …

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

@Thinking mentions two separate laws in the universe. One for angels in heaven, the other for people on this planet.
If we go this way of thinking, then the logic of one sacrifice of Christ for the whole Universe should not be the final thesis. God can create various forms of life according to different criteria or laws of existence and interaction.
Well on the this planet itself there is a visible difference about different laws in one place. God gave to  animal species to devour each other, even within the same species. It is a "law" for them. But we do not see that it is permissible for a man to eat a man.

If the existence of different laws is present on only one planet, why should we be limited by the idea of one Universal Sacrifice that arose because of one situation on Earth?
In addition, if there is another civilization that was created by the creative act of one and the same Creator, this Earth civilization does not know about the other and vice versa, so the idea of applying Christ's sacrifice for unknown civilization somewhere in space is unclear.

If another civilization was created with a different (or even same) intention, purpose or idea of the Creator, I don't see sense in the universality of Christ’s sacrifice. Jesus came on this planet for this humankind for one act of Adam and Eve in the past. 

Your all over the place sereko…you really do need to have a sit down with structured bible discussion and it’s okay if you dont agree with everything.

Christ was sacrificed  for mankind alone….not for the angels..yes both species were perfect….but the angels had much more understanding and their rebellion was a deliberate one done  with much more knowledge than Adam and Eve ever had….they held court with Jehovah over probably  eons of time before mankind was created…they knew full well what they were doing.

Animals we’re not meant to eat each other at all by Gods law.

neither were men meant to eat each other by Gods law…..this is basic bible understanding…..so who is teaching you or are you just pulling everybody’s chain here….you must be a Russian spy I reckon!….

37 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Maybe it makes sense. But then we wonder, if some action is a sin in one group?.... and the same action in another group is not a sin?

What two different laws are you actually talking about? Where does the Bible list them?

Both parties sinned..wether of the heavenly arrangement or the earthly arrangement…the only law Adam and Eve had back them was one as far as I know..and that was not to partake of the fruit of the tree.

This law of obedience was required….from his earthly family.

As far as Heavenly laws…Jehovah is a God of Justice and that alone requires many laws that are laid out in the Bible…for earthly mankind and heavenly spirits.

Ezekiel is one scripture where it shows he has a legal system in situ above In The heavenly realm.
Ezekiel : 21:27.A ruin a ruin a ruin I will make it.and it will not belong to anyone until the one who has the —-Legal Right —-Comes and I will give it to him.

That legal right was established in the heavens ..you would know this

American Standard Version 
Isaiah 61:8. For I Jehovah love Justice I hate robbery with iniquity and I will give them their recompense in truth and I will make an everlasting covenant with them .

Psalms 37:28 Jehovah is a lover of justice

Job 38 :33 Do you know the laws governing the heavens, can you impose their authority on the earth

Psalm 33:5 he loves righteousness and justice .

1Peter 5:8 keep your senses be watchful as you ADVERSARY the devil walks around like a roaring lion ready to devour you.

Just this one scripture shows the fallen Angel has broken a law against his father Jehovah..as he became his adversary

Strongs Concordance 

476 antidikos ( an accuser, adversary brings formal charges ie they are binding to exact penalty . Satan acts as such an adversary —- bringing a law suit —-of darkness against believers for their eternal damnation .

At this very moment and since Adam and and Eve their has been a legal fight between Satan and Jehovah and the laws Satan has broken…it’s difficult for Jehovah because he cannot break his own righteous laws…..where as Satan can break every law or principle he was taught In  heaven .

Jehovah has his own council chambers Psalms 89.5-7.

the heavens praise your wonders LORD YOUR FAITHFULNESS TOO, In the ASSEMBLY of the holy ones. for who in the skies above compare with the Lord Who is like the Lord —-among the heavenly beings. —-in the council of the holy ones God is greatly feared.—-he is more awesome than those who —-surround —him.

Psalms 82:1 God has taken his place In ——-The divine council in the midsts of the gods he holds judgment.. —-

We can see from just these few scriptures that God has laws he abides by and he himself cannot break them…he holds court In his heavenly council and he rules over his —-spiritual beings in his divine council…—-Satan and his followers once gathered with him.

These angels obviously had laws they needed to abide by…it would be great to know what else what said there but he has given us a peak at what happens .and this is just one account…—-laws or legal ramifications would have been spoken—-of as well as many other aspects concerning the earth.

Jehovah has legal obligations….to his heavenly family and those who break his laws of Justice..and to his earthly family…who disobey him.

Even the stars must obey his heavenly laws….

On 3/27/2022 at 1:50 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

So we have a scenario like this:

Adam and Eve are perfect. Angel xy is perfect.
Adam and Eve sinned (as perfect individuals) and were punished for slowly aging, getting sick, and dying.
Angel xy sins (as perfect individual) but does not punished to grow old, does not get sick and does not die.

What's this all about?

-Are there two or more kinds of "perfection"?
-Isn't the punishment for sin death?
-Does the Bible promote the postponement of the death penalty for sin?
-In both cases, is it not disobedience that should be punished by death?
-Why didn't Moses get the inspiration to tell us in writing whether God warned / informed the angels during the creation of the angels that they would be punished by death or that there might not be such punishments for them?

In the Bible, God has written that the impunity of the guilty causes the guilty to continue to do evil and that evil will therefore spread more easily and quickly and prevail over the good.

What message did God send to men, and what to angels when God immediately expelled the first people from Paradise and left Satan in his Perfect Family in heaven?

They ….man and angels are under two different laws…man is under the laws of the earthly kind…their home is the earth.

Angels are under the spiritual  laws for spiritual beings..their home is the heavens.

1) satan and his minions have suffered….their dominance over the earth has been severely  curtailed..they can no longer roam the earth and feel the delights of man…not just with women…but not taste the delights of food and the breeze on their faces they do not have the blatant power of rulership over man and beast as they once had …they are not served by slaves anymore..they do not enjoy the slumber of a good sleep…and have their every need kept anymore..remember….they Were MIGHTY KINGS ruling over their own personal domains…..That is now gone ..and given to paltry man..of who they utterly despise.

2) They have endured the loss of their children..even tho many were grown men many would also have been young and children when the flood came..just because they are fallen angels does not mean they did not love their children dearly as anyone on earth does.

Can you imagine watching  you children being violently killed..not just by torrential brutal downpours of rain but the volcanic sub terrain that exploded with boiling  water from the earth…it would have been a long drawn out death for all of them….as they had extra strength to fight these things off…and they would have fought for their lives….Their parents watched this slow death and could not do anything about it..these of superhuman strength were shackled and must have screeched in anger and rage over such inabilities they now had….they also could no long pro create.having the ability to create is something highly desirable to them…they are very very jealous that mankind can keep doing this….angels have not got the power to create anything or anyone…one reason why they despise men..

3) When excluded from the heavens they were excluded from any spiritual  truths there after…hence spiritual darkness ..

The fallen angels are In The Throws  of death..as to what they are now compared to what they were when they first sinned….and they know it..but their deaths are on a spiritual  timeline fitting for spiritual beings…quiet different to mankind’s…..but mankind has hope to get up from his grave…but these angels will have no such hope…hence their punishment will in the end be much more server than man’s.

On 3/27/2022 at 3:35 AM, Pudgy said:

Good Points 

The Bible says that any congregational discipline has to be done before the entire congregation.

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not do that.

End of thought.

Yes but one aspect of the argument with this is that every man and his Dog on line and even in some congs claims to be saints or annoited…and many are blatantly not and I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them…

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

Of course, that beggars the classic question: 

Can God make a rock so big that even he could not lift it?

He wouldnt have to…he would just vaporise it…

3 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Dear Thinking, if this is the case with me then in my defense I can say that I am neither the first nor the last to whom this has happened. And, smarter heads than mine made far bigger misinterpretations. 

Do ya want to have a Bible study then ….😉

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please define what the phrase "reading the Bible" means to you in the context of the name Srećko? In what way do I claim, “I read the Bible”?

I don’t read the Bible every day, or occasionally. When I refer to a biblical passage or report I do so from memory or go to a book or google to see where it is and what it says.

So your claim, that I claim to be reading the Bible, is not provable, it is just your opinion.  

 

Oh..okay..now I know why you take that scripture out of context….

4 hours ago, Mic Drop said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2022/03/26/google-confirms-emergency-security-update-for-32-billion-chrome-users-attacks-underway/amp/

Oh great…!!!

🤨