Thinking

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

He did mention also no publication states the latter also, so this is why whenever the year comes in the the discussion, it is clockwork for the former JWs to do the same thing over and over again; a crux to their insanity. As mention also, what is sad is the fact should any of them do the research to find out that the JWs never suggested the end of the world in 1975, they effectively get attacked and excommunicated from the community. The YouTuber in question suffered badly at the hands of the one known as John Cedars.

That being said, when people speculate on something without looking further into it, it results in problems like this. As for our Mainstream Counterparts, even the ones who come here, they figuratively like seeing the world and or communities burn with these narratives.

I think they are aware that no such thing was mentioned that day to suggest God's Day being of that year. There were also some mentioned of one of the pastors of the JW faith known as Fred Franz, in which some speak truth and some speak falsehood, and that battle was shown to be on this forum too.

But now that you mention it, many seem to not think about Matthew 24:14 (ref) and or any verse pertaining to preaching the gospel of the Bible. Preaching would have to end before such a day, yes? In the 70s prior and during and after 1975, they were still all over the place.

So that in of itself, is another point which is overlooked and or ignored. The Trinitarian of whom Srecko backed/supported suggested the JWs stopped preaching before 1975 to make it seem what the Scriptures say what followers of Christ were to end up doing. The person I speak of was around a lot even during your last tenure.

That being said, the only way this 1975 thing can be settled if the faith community did what that EXJW did, by putting forth all information for that day, consolidated so anyone can read.

 

Who is EJW and  where is he now…if I may ask 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Point is, among others, GB changes doctrines periodically.

By changing the doctrine, "prophecy" also changes. For example, when Gog of Magog ceased to be Satan and became a "coalition of nations" attacking JW just before Armageddon, and then in another context, "rebellious perfect people" at the end of the 1000-year Kingdom of Jesus, then the "prophecy" that uttered the "GB fickle prophet", changed too.

Ultimately, all that GB performs has no real value or significance, because the Bible urges people not to fear such a prophet. That’s another point, don’t be afraid of GB because it utters nonsense.

Your a nut…you wouldn’t even know what you know about Jehovah without the GB…you follow unreasonableness and demon spirit inspired people who contribute absolutely nothing to anybody..and nobody knows  anything about them if they were never associated with witnesses…they contribute nothing to poor uneducated people who have no computers or who do not read…and nothing to society at all…just people massively engulfed and drowned by their own pride…they are the modern days Sauls even…

The GB have done such things…they have taught people to read…and see and study the scriptures for themselves….even if they didn’t go on to follow our beliefs….they have helped the deaf to hear the message of the Bible…..at no cost and even if they don’t follow our belief system…they have organized a world wide program to reach people…yes they have errors…and will continue to have them u til judgement day arrives….but the basic doctrines have always been solid…and you wouldn’t even have known them if it wasn’t for the GB down then the years.

Do I like everything or agree with the way they may handle everything….no…but nobody else knocked on my door and explained the basic truths as good as they did…

what have you and others like you done but sit at your computer and try to ruin others faith…do you do that to the Catholics or any other beleif system..

Satan has fueled you with a sense of pride that excels that of Sauls…your as crazy as they come.

Talking to you and your lot is like talking  to a stobie  pole..thick as a brick.

14 hours ago, Pudgy said:

The thing that often comes to my mind is the parable of the boy who continually cried “Wolf!!”, when there was no wolf.

somehow I find the same sort of thing acceptable with Air Raid drills.

 

Well it was true the third time around …

12 hours ago, Pudgy said:

The point is this:

invisible things that supposedly happened in heaven in 1914, for which there is not a single shred of evidence their invisible kingdom with an invisible presence supported by invisible people, or angels as the case may be is completely indistinguishable …… Based on facts…… From a delusional fantasy.

The Bible said that nobody knows when Armageddon is going to take place and it would surprise everybody.

So far, every person, group, and organization that has claimed insight and ability to explain prophecy as always without exception been 100% WRONG.

That arrogance, fraud and just being flat wrong has been going on for at least 2000 years.

There have been no exceptions.

And I believe, that is the point.

Aaaaaah but you know she’s close to you before she’s seen by your eyes because you can catch the smell of her perfume…

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You alluded to it concerning prophecy, it being from a publication is irrelevant, and the response was the whole situation dwelled on speculation. Therefore the EXJW claim [1975 the JW said God's day will come; the world will end] is false.

The truth is concerning human history, nothing more.

 

It was Not EVER said Gods day would come or Armageddon…..it was alluded to strongly that it was a significant event and meant something important ….

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

True, due to cultural differences. For example, many Koreans still study for doctorate degrees while pioneering. It is in the culture for them because they still have the idea of looking after family in old age..... in the back of their minds or psyche. 

Good point 

4 hours ago, Pudgy said:

So?

Either you “get” innuendo non-sequiter nuanced humor …. Or you don’t.

Usually, those that build pictures in their minds with each word in a sentence they read, “get” visual humor as well.

Mmm well I remember the MAD magazines also…and I never got them either….but as long as they gave you a laugh…we each have our own sense of humour😊

2 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I was speaking about “our Theology” To include all living things on planet Earth. Please go back and re-read that post with my intended perspective and see if it looks better then.

My “broad stroke” was intended to be understood as planetary in scope.

Perhaps I should have been more specific, but I did not think it would be misunderstood.

Also, I am five or more years older than you, and was in California when the hustle started, an the Congo in late 1974, so our experiences might be expected to be completely different.

 

That’s one thing that has amazed me as I have developed friends from all over the world since internet and how even in the truth something can be a issue in one place and not even be mentioned in another place…at first it was hard to grasp but then it helped me understand the diversity amongst us…it was a issue over here..but seems not in other places…

25 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

I was overseas working at the time, and I did not speak the local languages.

By the way, my kind of humor is usually reserved to guys my age who grew up reading MAD Magazine, and like  stand-up comedians like Robin Williams and Lewis Black.

So?

15 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

I was overseas working at the time, and I did not speak the local languages.

Well that’s a cop out…

5 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

Sometimes, the “Elephant in the Room” has to be there for 40 years before people will admit he is really there, after denying it for 38 years.

That does not take humility.

It takes inevitability, in the face of hundreds of thousands of people that will not drink the Kool Aid.

I was there before, during, and after 1975, and was paying attention.

It was a deliberate attempt to scare the Brotherhood artificially.

What the GB LEARNED, is that you cannot fool all of the people … all of the time.….. and that loss of credibility has serious consequences.….. but that’s OK, the GB never missed a meal, or slept cold.

…….. and NOBODY GOT FIRED or demoted.

 

I’m not disagreeing  with you with that…what you have said is true…but the brother who gave the talk was humble  enough to admit the error…I like brothers like that…and the moral of the story Pugsy has nothing to do with cofffee…it is….don’t trust anyone but Jehovah and Jesus..and be like a beroean…who were more noble minded than the Corinthians and took responsibility for their own spirituality.

Many left over that,,,shaken because they looked to men….and a date…

If you lived thru  that you would also know many did not go along with it…

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That situation could be equated to something like that of a game of Telephone. Whereas something is said and down the line, caused some form of division and confusion. So someone who was excited must have said some things that got other people talking whereas others understood the context of what is said and did not partake in spreading what the others were doing, hence the notation of 1975. Plus times in the 70s were different, to the point people do literal action after some things were said, as is excitement of somethings which could lean to action.

That is largely true but the original telephone message did lean heavily to that date.with  articles and graphs etc…it was like striking a match and not expecting it to start a fire…they at the top  have to take responsibility for the written articles and graphs that fed that fire….having said that with each article there was a paragraph saying it was all in Jehovahs time line etc etc.

yes the 70s was a different era…but 75 did not start with the rank and file…

I know the GB learnt from that…I listened to a excellent talk from a brother who admitted they had and that the GB had listen to you ( the rank and file ) he was encouraging one’s not to be weakened by that…and then he said the words…..”You don’t think Jehovah was watching all of that “

It was in my opinion a honest admission of a major spiritual stuff up….

it was a great talk…and a humble one…

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Cartoon dogs are gender less to start with, since 1975 when we were told we were all going to the Vet, to be tutored.

Well those that fell for that were not studying and understanding the scriptures …and they trusted in Men….big learning experience for them ..

19 hours ago, Pudgy said:

When I was a teenager I was exposed to the words of Thomas Jefferson, who said “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility towards every form of tyranny over the mind of man.“

I realize now, that since then, I have never been “neutral”. 
 

 

 

Then perhaps you need to be neutered..then you might calm down and be peaceable puppy who couldn’t careless…😁

9 hours ago, Pudgy said:

It is my understanding that Unitarian churches vary dramatically, and there is no “Central Command”, like Jehovah’s Witnesses have. 
I was pleased to learn that Sir Isaac Newton could accurately be described as a “Unitarian Restorationist” Christian, as obviously (to me at least ….), he was the smartest natural man known to exist, and because his natural brilliant logic and reasoning led him to believe 90% or so of what Jehovah’s Witnesses believe today, I always thought of him as the first “modern day” Jehovah’s Witness ( … that I am aware of).

Among the non-JW Unitarian Restorationists, are there any serious competitors for the affection and approval of Jehovah God and Christ Jesus?

I would prefer someplace that does not require wearing a tie.

Well after  the thousand years you can run naked thru  the poppy fields and leave your tie behind….wooo hooo!!!!!

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

Could be worse ….. the Aussie Govmt could require everyone wear plastic Richard Nixon masks!

That may be preferable to what is coming ….

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

They'll eventually track bank accounts with some new ruling.

They're also afraid to say COVID-19 is Endemic.

Although they less restrictions, chance are, they'll bring them back, so for example, if you do go preaching, who is to say you'll be stopped to have your papers checked?

That kind of power those in power will not let go 100%, temporarily, but not permanent.

There is no REAL let up with COVID in Australia New Zealand  and Canada..

In The Eastern parts of Australia where the most population is they have eased restriction only because a election is coming up..so they are acting kind and placating that population..the rest of Aust it’s like this COVID has just started..we are back in 2020…

43 minutes ago, Thinking said:

There were no churches in the area at the time, so learning of God and the Bible was in house, for my Father had a reason for this because of a practice in my mother's country which is related to Spiritism as with violence (although at the time his country his no different), so holding on to what the Bible says is light holding a sword to fend off an extremely disaster laced influence which claim many. As for Biblical Unitarian, this is in regards to the fact my Father, as with me also, believe God to be the Father only, and the Son is the Christ, hence me being vocal against the Trinity and Mainstream, as is some of what spill over into the Anti-Trinitarian faction. Because of Restorationist movement, it actually gives the Anti-Triniarian a legitimate fighting chance against the Trinitarian and the Mainstream.

I am sorry you and your father have had such a hard fight to stand for your biblical principles …and under such conditions as you have described.

11 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Thinking - you will have to try to get used to the American humor.  I do not understand it myself.  I often tramp in it. LOL

Hahah….yes I do have trouble with it …especially when it’s written…sarcasm is another that I cannot discern ..in written form…I think I get muddy in it too…which is funny really as B Splane at our last big convention said….” You Australians need to be careful with your speech as some think you come over as harsh and sarcastic “…..I smiled as he said that..( as I know I come over as blunt..) 

16 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Ok. And? As do most who understand Core Teachings of the legitimate Christian faith vs the other faction that originated in the 4th century, he mentions this early on in the video. For in the days of Constantine, our predecessors, The Subordinationists, it was a dangerous time for them. This even goes into the Reformation, we had to deal with Catholics. Most Subordinationist Christians were killed, even in an era where there was a new Emperor.

To not accept the Creed or the Trinity, death will follow. Therefore, Jesus is not God, he is God's Son.

Moreover, Subordinationists never fought compared to the early days of Mainstream Christendom who took over. Then you have to factor in the issue with Bible translation.

God's Day, Jesus does come back to fight against lawlessness and badness.

God and the Holy Spirit are separate, for the Spirit isn't a literal being. He literally says this in the video Perhaps you took this man's words out of context. He mentions that Trinitarians believe in One God, but in 3 persons, therefore, in the Trinitarian view, The Holy Spirit isn't separate from God, but God himself, essentially. As far as I know, JWs, Muslims and most Anti-Trinitarians do not believe that the Holy Spirit is God, nor do they believe Jesus to be God, rather, the only God, is the Father (YHWH); Jesus states this too.

Unlike our other Unitarian counterparts, we believe Jesu pre-existence. As far as I know most Anti-Trinitarians, even JWs, believe this, but JWs are noted by opponents as Semi-Arians because they believe, like the Subordinationists Jesus was created by God. Some of the Unitarian Church outside of Biblical Unitarian believe Jesus only came into existence when conceived by Mary.

God's name? Srecko, are you aware of what the holy spirit is and what it is capable of?

The Holy Spirit is from [of] God and it itself has many names. Granted this video was posted in my other debate, even the website of this man made the correction; @Costried to get me on that, but failed. Moreover, another person similar to the man in the video, Kel, made the correction.

God indeed has many names, as is his Son, as is his Spirit. His spirit is used to direct his followers, in the past, enabling them to do miraculous acts. The Holy Spirit can be prayed for, and given to those who ask for it. Hence, the ending remark is correct.

The debate against @Cos concerning the Holy Spirit, probably the only debate where I was annoyed with a Trinitarian. Ironically @Dmitar was mentioned in this debate as his last tenure

I remember talking about this video years ago on here, likewise with Kel and Buzzard. 

 

From what I am aware, the core teachings they're aware about, the only difference is that they're as a whole an organized group compared to others. So not sure of what you are attesting to.

Most of us Anti-Trinitarians trust the Bible also.

One is organized and one is not?

That being said, at the end he made it clear of the different Unitarians out there.

Kel is very very good at explaining about the trinity….I would advise all to listen to him if they find the trinity troubling..

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

It is more so standing on corners and the like. For me personally, the ones more troubling to deal with is the Black Hebrew Isrealites. They themselves tried to change history for the wrong reasons.

That being said, it is going to be tough.

And it will get worse should the gas, energy, and now wheat supply shifts in an unfavorable direction. This will effect people who do not know what is taking place in the background, even members of your faith.

even mentally one needs to defend themselves. Although @Dmitar would say otherwise, he agreed several times on the fact of the influence that has flourish recently in which it can effect some people namely younger people., for ill influence can effect everyone if they're not careful.

This particular EXJW is an interesting case, this excludes the others who went into spiritism full 100%, for this one, he slowly got into it. Despite preaching against JWs for he was essentially the voice of the Warwick protest and a legitimate rival to one of @Srecko Sostar's following, John Cedar (who is now known to be immoral), as for spiritism, he slowly began to be influence by spiritism. After the protest against JWs, he was shown in a video after his rant about the park situation doing a Wiccan practice - The Maypole, the picture below is an example of what that is

After the video came out, he made another one after he was called out by EXJWs, but soon after he deleted both videos yet for this major error, EXJWs still defend him and they still attack Cedars, however, despite this, he still communicates with Wiccan practitioners, who drew in more EXJW converts.

This is the same EXJW turned Wiccan who attempted to pretend he was a Truther, as is a member of a Hacktivist group only to get called out. As of now he also dwells on conspiracy. For even former members of your faith they need be careful, but most do not watch their step.

That being said, this same move is made by others, to trick people into accepting traditions, stating God sees them as harmless. So one need to be careful.

Granted @Dmitar was confused with his Unitarian remark as was @Srecko Sostar. There were no churches in the area at the time, so learning of God and the Bible was in house, for my Father had a reason for this because of a practice in my mother's country which is related to Spiritism as with violence (although at the time his country his no different), so holding on to what the Bible says is light holding a sword to fend off an extremely disaster laced influence which claim many. As for Biblical Unitarian, this is in regards to the fact my Father, as with me also, believe God to be the Father only, and the Son is the Christ, hence me being vocal against the Trinity and Mainstream, as is some of what spill over into the Anti-Trinitarian faction. Because of Restorationist movement, it actually gives the Anti-Triniarian a legitimate fighting chance against the Trinitarian and the Mainstream.

Very sad all the way around….but this is how the demons infiltrate all forums ..

7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Of course, I was being a bit flippant. I was thinking a bit like Dmitar when he used this kind of wordplay a while back in another topic:

The Watchtower did something similar when we used to emphasize more often that even Abel was one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Using the same reasoning, if you are a Witness, I would certainly hope you are also both a Restorationist and a Unitarian. I know you knew what I meant, but for those who didn't, I'll offer a bit more explanation.

If you believe there is only one God then you are a Unitarian and not a Trinitarian. Merriam-Webster includes the following as the very first Definition of unitarian:

1a often capitalized : one who believes that the deity exists only in one person

And the Watchtower recognizes this as a the primary tenet of unitarianism.

*** w77 4/15 p. 247 Isaac Newton’s Search for God ***
Our Unitarian Heritage, by Earl M. Wilbur, Boston 1925, pp. 289-294.

*** w57 7/15 p. 428 par. 3 The Holy Spirit—Third Person of Trinity or God’s Active Force? ***
With but very few exceptions the creeds of Christendom state that God’s holy spirit is the third person of a trinity, coequal, coeternal and cosubstantial with the Father and the Son. . . . An exception is the Unitarian creed . . . ”—Dictionary of Religious Knowledge, Abbott.

And of course we believe strongly that the true religion should be restored according to first century Christianity rather than the apostasy that took over mostly from the second century onward, which was the goal of the Restorationist movement that Russell participated in:

*** w14 5/15 p. 26 par. 1 Are You Moving Ahead With Jehovah’s Organization? ***
JEHOVAH is rightly credited with the establishment of the Christian congregation in the first century and with the restoration of true worship in recent times.

*** g89 10/22 p. 20 Part 20—19th Century Onward—Restoration Imminent! ***
Clearly, what was needed was restoration, the restoration of true worship!...Back in the first century, Jesus reactivated true worship in the form of Christianity. Yet, he prophesied that there would be an apostasy. ... In the latter half of the 19th century, the appointed time for this restoration of true worship was at the doors.  Charles Taze Russell was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in 1852...

@Space Merchant appears to use this same idea of restorationism similar to the first sentence under that topic in Wikipedia.

Restorationism (or Christian primitivism) is the belief that Christianity has been or should be restored along the lines of what is known about the apostolic early church, which restorationists see as the search for a purer and more ancient form of the religion.^[1][2][3]

Okay got you..but it’s hard to read sarcasm and flippancy…for me anyway..just when I thought I had worked you out you screwed with my head….all good..✌️

7 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Oh, just as an aside, in Finland the government considers impairing a person’s right to vote in any way to be akin to a crime against humanity and a violation of a persons basic human rights, therefore the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in Finland does not in anyway impose congregational sanctions against any brother or sister who chooses to vote, and does not speak against it in any way whatsoever, which would be a punishable felony, as a violation of basic human rights.

I agree with that.

 

 

 

Yes we must have free right as to which government we choose to come under …we make that decision at baptism….and we take and bear the consequences of that decision.

we dont get baptized if we Choose  to vote for a man made ..or still desire to participate in such things …..doesn’t take a scientist to work that one out.

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

@Pudgy Care to tell @Thinking the TRUTH about your Voter Registration in 2016, way before you were d'fd? The good thing, your right to vote for plenty of government positions hasn't been denied.

So, how are you not afflicted. In your state it's classified as UNA, but tell me, you go for the Republican Party as a NRA enthusiast, right? Or are you now an NRA member too. 

This comment basically uncovers yourself ..no witness in good standing and mature would ever post this as it would be considered slanderous by scriptural understanding. You would be if Pudgy wished brought before the elders to explain your accusation and where you got your info and how and why you said such things on a public medium.

In fact your statement could actually put yourself before a judicial committee.

At the least it shows a immaturity which rules out any thing you tend to say as untrustful..and prepared to sink to slanderous talk vis biblical standards.

Personally I find it disgusting.

6 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Indeed, your kind believes everything a worldly person has to say. Yet, you draw the line with bible truth, 🤪

Truth is truth Dmitar…I even upvote you when you speak truths ..