Thinking

On 1/15/2022 at 4:53 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

If we believe that people are sincere in their intentions, at least in the beginning of their activities, then we can believe in the good intentions of Russell and the then Autonomous Assemblies. I suppose the “movement” begins in a way that the people within it have a more liberal position.

Than when the “movement” ceases to be a mere movement against the established Church institution that led to the gathering of people in the Bible Students formation.

In time, it became clear that these independent groups of people should be kept together, in a uniform manner, if they wanted to maintain the specific direction. On the other hand, this uniformity and striving for unity easily becomes institutionalized and organized like those of other institutions that caused the BS Movement to emerge. 

The existence of a class of elders (and an extra class of FDS with its Helpers) and those who are not, in today’s JW assemblies has brought WTJWorg closer to the Catholic Church hierarchy against which JW preaches. A Catholic priest talks about hell, and a JW priest talks about Armageddon. Theology differs but the authoritative position of both is the same. 

An administrative breakpoint could be found, and you mentioned some date about it.  The breaking point is just the culmination of the onset of dissatisfaction in people who worked on making change happen in a period of time before the change was announced in public. WTBTS continued to make administrative changes after Rutherford. 

No the Catholic Church hierarchy..copied to a point the Christian’s hierarchy or order directed by Holy Spirit… .Just the same as The Babylon religions copied the Jewish heirachy and rituals directed by Holy Spirit  to an uncanny degree …..Satan mimicking  Jehovahs rituals to a tea…..

as a people have we been too authoritarian…to dogmatic at times…yes…

Just like Moses going mad at the people when he had no right…

Too right we made administrative changes after Rutherford…we needed too…..

….

9 hours ago, Dmitar said:

This only shows your willingness to see the opposition. How about the opposition within? Why have blind faith on them? They serve themselves and agree with apostate views and, as you state, learned to distinguish. A Christian can only serve one master, that's a choice given by God through Christ.

Here, I rather be, since I am dealing with former Jehovah's Witnesses and present Jehovah's Witnesses that are inclined to agree with apostate views and that subvert a certain institution literature to bring about bad reports.

A true Christian's first duty is to God, regardless of personal motives and emotion. I have survived many encounters, and a few directly from demonic entities without blaming an institution, or it's teaching. The actors within that go rogue are the ones to blame, if you wish to blame, not God nor an institution dedicated to bringing back the first century teachings of Christ. They only have themselves to blame for their misdeeds and conduct. Who will judge them by Bible Law? Who will judge them is they have gone beyond Christian ethics and subverted themselves to involve man's law? 

In the past, the institution used to give a victim a personal choice if they were a victim of a crime. They needed to make their choice be heard and clear. It was their "right" to contact the secular authority. Free Will. Now, those victims that chose not to involve secular authority by their own choice blame the institution. Why? Because man's laws say they can. Or is it another attack by Satan to bring down God's faithful followers? Who is helping Satan in that quest, former Jehovah's Witnesses. Who else? Present Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I have intolerance for rogue Elders and Ministerial servants. I'm as outspoken there as I am here. If they teach the word of God properly, I "RESPECT" that as any true Christian should. Does that mean I follow men? NO! I follow Christ instructions. There must be shepherds among the sheep. Therefore, I respect the arrangement of that institution, since it’s part of canonical writing. When Jehovah's Witnesses lose sight of Christ teachings, then they "FAIL" as Christians.

How can a visitor here distinguish between the two that have become the same? 

It's not about making excuses on why we think the way we think. It’s about a promise a Christian makes upon baptism to remain loyal to God no matter what. You should have known, Satan was going to challenge your resolve as a Christian after baptism. Your remarks show, you have failed to see and acknowledged it.

Should Peter have known to the depth he would fall In Renouncing Jesus…did he understand the extent of his persecution…no…he still failed in sinking into the stormy seas…but Jesus spoke kindly to him even tho lacking faith.

The problem here Ditmar..is you actually cause more harm than good to the truth…you come out so self righteous ..and no matter how some one tries to be kindly to you…no matter how many try to make allowances for your over zealousness…you won’t listen.

Thus you are not acting like Jesus in any form….but roaring out of piousness…..you would condemn the very men Jesus loved when they fled in terror and abandoned him….in your actions and words what you are showing is the very lack of the understanding of Christ….the very essence of his being and reason for being ….Jesus would not speak as you do…nor would he judge as you do.

Im not saying some of your thoughts are wrong…for they are not all wrong…but the spirit in which  you speak is wrong…..you are not helping anyone come into the truth or even want to…..you are doing more harm than good.

you yourself are acting as a rouge element of Jehovahs people even being on this forum….yet that’s okay with you…..because you feel you have a right to….as we all do here….you honestly feel you are being used to defend this institution….thus in your mind defending Jehovah and Jesus…..thus you condemn yourself with a double standard …so why do you condemn us your fellow brothers and sisters.

I know talking and trying to reason with you is actually whistling in the wind..and it’s no good even being kindly to you…but I hope that those that read you…or this realize we are not all like you…you are very proud Ditmar and you lash out at one’s who truly are your brothers and sisters….

Anyway these days are hard and we need to keep putting up with each other….and I know you mean well 🤗

On 10/12/2021 at 5:27 PM, Pudgy said:

Occasionally people are born with a molar growing out the top of a foot, or six appendages, or cojoined, or one is a parasite on another ... or no eye sockets.

What does THAT prove?

What is proves is that God cursed ONE snake .... not the billions of snakes that were contemporary to that time, or future snakes.

...or any one of a dozen OTHER different theories.

And besides, who is to say if that snake's legs are just a deformity?

 

I’ve seen pics in really old publications…back in Russell’s day…of a snake slithering up a tree and eating the fruit and turning into a wonderful looking man…..sort of made sense to me then and still does now ….

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I would be interested to know whether God has an interest in providing his protection only to those people who are his worshipers or whether all innocent (victims) belong to the "saved" regardless of religious, political, cultural affiliation.

You mention God's wrath. If God intended (before few thousands years) to undertake the mass destruction of evil (and evil people) then it is part of a plan and not a moment of emotion (anger).

it’s both….he has a Plan….and he will execute with his wrath…that’s why Jesus will be back as a roaring lion…

A good example of this is how he dealt with Sennacherib and Hezekiah

Message Bible 2 Kings 19:25 ( I use the message Bible because it’s straight to the point ) 

Did it never occur to you that I’m behind all of this

Long Long ago I DREW UP PLANS  and now I’ve gone into ACTION

Using you as a DOOMSDAY  weapon reducing proud cities to piles of rubbish

Leaving their people dispirited slumped shoulders limp souls useless as weeds fragile as grass unsubstantial as wind blown chaff.

I know when you sit down and when you get up ( Sennacherib/ type of Satan )when you come and when you go.

and  yes I’ve marked everyone of of your tantrums against me It’s because of your temper tantrums against me

It’s because of your temper your blasphemous foul temper

That I’m putting my hook in your nose and my bit in your mouth

and turning you back to where you come from. 
 

Jehovah has a Great Plan….at that appointed time ..at the right time….Jesus will ROAR…..

Your questions Srecko   can be found laid down in patterns of the Bible… but  we will have to wait and see…we might get some surprises..only Jesus has the right to judge as to how to handle your question.

8 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Yet you're willing to interact with anyone here. You are willing, just like anyone calling themselves a Jehovah Witness, to banish someone that speaks the truth. Nay, The hearsay falls on the lap of the critics.

You prompt these questions when you fail to ask it of others.

Your demands are disconcerting. If you wish to go through the proper legal channels that that State demands, and an  institution requires, then you can receive your answer. Just make sure you're and Elder, requesting information of an individual changing KH's, or an official making an inquiry. You can also just ask the wicked. It will be up to that person to convey the truth. 

Who I am is not important. What is essential is that visitors get the proper direction of their spiritual needs. Some come to these forums to learn something new about scripture, not politics, governments, personal opinions, falsehoods, misinformation, etc.

Therefore, to all of you, I'm nobody. Maybe I will change my moniker to "my name is nobody or just call me nobody" to reflect that, since so many people like to scrutinize my moniker and no one else's. 

If you wish to classify me, I have no problem. Can I classify you as a "fake" witness too? 

I don't follow bad actors, nor would I want to. When one becomes a soldier of God, then we accept the persecution.

 No Ditmar I don’t have fellowship with everyone here..I have blocked two who get their thoughts/ so called scriptural understandings  directly from the demons..and I know that for a fact…having personal conversations with such over a decade ago…. you are and I understand  why you converse with them….for the sake of others who may read their inaccuracies..I get that…and I think you and space Merchant have had some preety amazing conversations….with certain ones of which you both articulated far better than I would.

You are not nobody..and I’m sorry if my words make you feel like that…but please…we all must recognize as witnesses we are not robots..we all have our own personalities…for many different reasons…some of us have been hurt badly but survived…some of us may not see things quiet the way you do…..for what ever reasons….the apostles didn’t always agree with each other…but had sharp bursts of anger…….all the best to you brother …

On 1/27/2022 at 3:06 AM, Dmitar said:

I believe the joker is the one that defends an abusive person. He might not be abusive to the people he likes, mainly everyone here, including Former Jehovah'e Witnesses he enjoys defending like a father figure, but, to the one, and only he hates enough to find 1000 ways to ban he doesn't. That is downright evil as a Jehovah's Witness, as he claims. His problem is, he hates it when someone proves him or you people wrong.  Can't stand it. The inner fury boils over.

Also, don't ever compare your fruitage with mine, since you orchestrate the same understanding he does. His own, not scripture. If you did, you people wouldn't be "defending" a recently disfellowshipped person for a horrendous action, and you still admire by liking him, speaking well of him, up voting, or down voting comments that are truthful about his behavior.

Therefore, there is "nothing" I have to listen from you.

Well I dont know who is disfellowshipped on here and who isn’t…I might hazard a guess…but I dont have any concrete evidence …I have no proof of what it was supposed to be about…a lot of hearsay…and ..I’ve got to have more than that.

I want FACTS…I want PROOF….have you got that?

I dont even know who you are…I upvote you when you say things that I think right..i think you say a lot of things right……I don’t think I have ever downvoted any one…but I might have…but I doubt it..let me play the politican and say I dont recall….if I have.( that should cover my tracks for those who might go and search and find me guilty of it )

As far as I know ..you could be a fake witness….but I do apologize for mentioning your fruit-ages…that was out of line …so I’m sorry for that.

Personally I cannot work JWI out..nor you…and hey..I think we are all a bit dodgy for even being on line…me too..😏

On 9/18/2021 at 2:30 AM, Space Merchant said:

@BroRando I say this because not too long ago mid way into the pandemic, the situation has broken some, not all, in your faith community, as is with the pre-discussion of the mandates. The situation in of itself took a hit on majority of people, even JWs. Granted not all succumb to this, but a few have done so. Truthers are aware of Jehovah's Witnesses, and seeing the situation now, they equate it to the Israelites in the Wilderness, different people religious and non religious being defeated by struggles, mainly kids and teenagers, of which their battle is with the educational system since it was recently exposed that brazen higher education teachings were being professed without the parents knowing, sparking a fight with guardians and teachers, with the mandates resulting in the fight expanding.

The United Nations will have tricks, this is why I mentioned to @Arauna dark version of persecution, as a means to not go after one's faith, but in a way to break them to the point at an extreme level to get them to leave their faith or attack their own, getting Knightfall'd, so to speak. Moreover, when that time comes,  later on, the Mark of the Beast will be pushed.

As for the interment camps, this is true. That is what Authoritarianism brings, mainly in Austria whereas now it results in wild protest and increase of fighting and crime. Canada just rolled out their entrapment Quarantine camps so any poor soul who ends up in the area would be trapped.

As mentioned before, Germany, United Kingdom and France has some things brewing right now that will effect the people, in France's case, it may be worse than the Yellow Jacket movement should Authoritarianism springs it's head there.

As for idolatry, the One World Religion professed by those in power will have an idol of it's own. This was foreshadowed back in 2016 with the Kairos and Peak Movements involved with a religious event. One of the reasons why I dislike MSCs and the Interfaithers in these movements because they're trying to get people into Babylon.

The image from 2016 was wiped from wiki, and the searches on the internet, it resembled the ouroboros - that is a huge red flag for the unaware.

I’m hoping the fact that Jehovah interceded and did t let the Tower of Babel be finished also indicates he will do likewise with the UN….wait and see job i guess

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Apologize, but it doesn't even need to be said in such clear words.

It is enough to observe a change in doctrines so it can easily be concluded that JWs do not believe in many things that were an integral part of the beliefs of their predecessors (no matter of their name). In any period of time from the first apostles of Jesus to the present day. (
Moreover, JWs do not even believe in those doctrines that have recently been an integral part of “true worship” (I’m talking about periods from a few months to a few years back, even not need to go in past decades). Jesus ’apostles expected the establishment of the Kingdom durin their lifetime. JWs today claim they (apostles) had the wrong expectations. So JW today reject, apostolic, their then faith, their belief system on the matter).

Keep in mind one more thing about this issue, please nicely. Has it ever been said in WTJWorg literature in the last 50 or more years that “new light” came into the world because JW believed that “old light” was a false teaching? But the JWs stopped believing in “their own old light” (not only in the "light" of Bible Students).

So if JWs are willing to reject, to stop believing in their own "biblically established beliefs" then it will be even easier for them to abandon the beliefs of Bible Students.

Simple.

 

Okay….nicely …..🙃..your both wrong and right…off course we beleive in the basic doctrines of what Russell understood from the scriptures and corrected….

…Gods kingdom plan…

no trinity..

dead do not go to heaven..

the grave is hell…

Jesus king of the Kingdom which he will hand back to his father when perfection has been achieved..

Having no part of the world.

..the 144,000 anointed are the first resurrection and will rule as kings alongside Jesus…

there will be a great crowd who survive the tribulation.

the soul is man in the flesh…

we are awaiting Judgement day of a thousand years and the great resurrection over which Jesus will rule and organise….

How to pray…

Those who do Not take the mark of the beast will be saved…faith in Jesus and baptism..

the preaching work must be done  before the end

Satan is a fallen angel with followers who rules the world at this time.

As far as us changing thoughts..off course we have….Russell distributed food at the proper time..and it seems only at sufficient amounts that the world could consume at that time…he was fed gradually just as the apostles were fed.

yes you are right about the new light and old light stuff…I’m not going to defend that…how can I !!,

We have had good changes…and bad changes..some which then got changed back to what Russell first thought…and other changes that had to be changed because Russell had it wrong…

We have had men go beyond the written word and put in their own interpretations….types and anti types..etc..and they have had to be acknowledged….we had to acknowledge and correct policies…we still dont have everything right and nor will we get it all right….and we will all hold a accounting  before Jehovah…

You know ….if I had been Uriah’s mother …I would have absolutely hated and despised with the greatest of loathing King David……I would have wanted ..no…I would have demanded him stoned to death as The Law stated….in my pain and grief…….now where do you think my righteous anger and my right-full demanding of justice would have left Jehovah’s great plan…..and that is what you are missing …..you are lacking the understanding  of what Jehovah will put up with to accomplish  his plan….and also his depth of mercy…

So you and others come on forums and tear down..at times rightfully so…at times blatantly wrong…you really dont understand what you are doing because you see thru your eyes…mere human eyes…..thus incapable as to trying to see it thru Jehovah’s eyes of understanding …you cannot even work it out by the patterns laid out in the scriptures of how Jehovah’s people act and how he treats them.

Five or six years ago a brother from bethel stated at an assembly that they were aware there  were a lot of things wrong with the organization and they were trying to fix them but he didnt think they would be able to correct everything before the end…

They Know Sereko..and Jehovah knows….now it’s time to trust in Jehovah…or do you think Jehovah cannot control his people…whom ever they are?

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Today’s JWs can defend themselves by claiming that they do not believe what Bible Students once believed, and that therefore it is not their past and legacy.

Can you explain this?…it’s a messy statement…and not really true…rather misleading actually…from what I’ve read they couldn’t go along with some of the changes Rutherford  brought In…the one I’m thinking about is how he changed the understanding of the ARK representing Jesus ransom…to the earthly organization…and who can blame them for that…because that one thing led to a fair bit  of dogmatism..and heavy handiness ….and was so totally wrong…..so I do get why they with drew away from what Rutherford was pushing….but I dont know that we have ever said we do not beleive what Bible students once believed…??

I read an account of one JW who was not happy with what was happening with in the org so he went to the Bible students..a few different ones..but said he found the same problems within them as he had found with  us…

I like all Bible students…the ones I’ve talked with are kind and generous people doing the best they can….they seem a bit loose on pagan holidays…sometimes I think…wrongly or rightly they are caught in a time warp of Russell’s full teachings…not realizing he was just coming out of BTG and tho used by Jehovah very greatly..along with his associates of that time period ..he and they never had the time and the time was not right for a fuller understanding  of certain things…but he had a lot right..I admire him greatly…and I’m not saying we have everything right either…because we don’t!

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I vaguely recall it too. Yes, I think the wording might be wrong. If memory serves (it may not) I think he was saying something to the effect, ‘Does anyone here thing Joseph F Rutherford is the leader of Jehovah’s Witnesses?’ to which the reply was a loud, NO.  The point being that nobody present misunderstood that Christ was the actual leader of the congregation.

Yeah that sounds more like it…my old memory constantly needs prodding and readjustment..thanks for that 

9 hours ago, Dmitar said:

In response to the question posted. I looked everywhere for the article in question. I’m afraid it might have been held in my hard drive that crashed, and al thel information I held dearly, was lost. Likewise, I’m not referring to the article in 1931 Gold Age which states if someone would ask a fellow service worker who they were, they would answer, "I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses."

This was meant to be a cry of separation among all those groups that were being falsely identified, such as Russellites, Millennial Dawn People, ISBA, etc. to that of the Ecclesiastes tabernacle of Rutherford.

I cannot recall if it was the Ohio convention or the St Louis convention. Since I cannot produce the article, I can only say, I sincerely apologize. I have made an unintentional bad report. That was not my intent,

This in no way impedes anyone if they wish to ridicule me. It’s your right. If for some reason, I ever come across that article, that stated, “am I one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the audience replied, NO! In a loud voice, I will be no more than happy to share it here.

No one is going to ridicule you..and you are big enough to to apologise…an admiral quality…..I vaguely remember the audience you speak of saying loudly NO…not sure if I read it or seen it on the net…but I think your wording may be wrong….wasn’t he correcting us about how we used to say we were a Jehovah Witness …???? ..we’ll anyway that’s how I remember it….

On 1/3/2022 at 5:03 AM, Dmitar said:

Can you explain, why you would promote a right-wing conspiracy theorist Podcaster? Also, can you explain how this impact is any different from that of the flu shot? If you cannot control your anger, then, please don't respond.

What a joke…listen…I’ve butted heads with JWI a few times but ..I have never seen him express anger…in Fact i would say as much as I’ve disagreed with him at times..his fruitages  are finer than mine or yours …

5 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Airliners should not crash .... either.

But they do.

To reasonably expect others to be "perfect", you have to actually BE the example.

How are you two critters doin' on THAT?

Agreed!…

Christ’s  followers were confused a lot of the times…first when they went out on their first preaching missionary they taught and thought that Gods Kingdom had already come and Jesus was there to rule now….( wow that was misleading …and the thing was Jesus knew that but let them go on with it anyway)…..seems they got confused many times over Jesus and his actions…how on earth could he ever talk to the Samaritan woman..that was a big one…confusion over circumcising..confused over drinking Jesus blood and eating his flesh…and what of Peter renouncing Jesus three times..out of fear…all of them were confused and frightened on the night of Jesus and his betrayal….they scattered frightened and left him alone ..they never had a clue as to what was going on..yet he told them…they should have…

And they fought amongst themselves and yelled at each other…brothers and sister of the anointed at that(…even after Jesus death and their anointing…)

Yet they had the scriptures…they should have known …should have discerned what would happen to the coming Messiah….they lived with him..knew him In The flesh….he TOLD THEM….yet they abandoned  him in his hour of need…confused …they didn’t understand  anything!!!

Yet who of us does not want to be like them…..Dmitar….why do you think Gods people will be any different in the time of the end …or at any time in the past….

Those men were constantly learning…failing ..enduring…growing in years and age as well as understandings…and probably the wisest they ever were was just before they died.

But HE chose the foolish of the world, remembering they are but from dust and he keeps putting up with the weak earthly vessels…that are all cracked and flawed….so why do you expect such a high standard when HE knows it’s not possible .

1Cor 1:27

but God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise

God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

On 12/31/2021 at 3:59 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

I would say, how can we draw a parallel from the characters of Moses and Aaron. WTJWorg is considered the successor of all of God’s organizations that have emerged throughout history, to use their logic. Noah's Ark = God's Organization, Nation Israel = God's Organization, First Assembly = God's Organization, WTBTS = God's Organization.
However, each of the above had "Earth Representatives", so Moses would be the archetype of GB, and Aaron would be the representative of today's Helpers.
Both of today’s classes at WTJWorg feel that they are inspired (guided) by God and that their instructions should be followed without discussion.
As with Moses and Aaron, who made compromises to please the people, so today’s religious leaders are making changes in theology and practice. Sometimes they are a relief to the people, and sometimes an additional burden.
So, enough about the alleged "spirit guidance". Because the comment provided by Thinking proves this setting or thesis.

Like other leaders of the people, GB and Helpers = Administration, monitor the beats and pulse of their people. When the pressure in the “body” of the assembly becomes too high something must be done. In other words, there are changes in interpretations. You who are permanent members of the JW Assembly are better informed about the new changes, bigger and smaller. Sometimes they have to come because of changes in the “outside world,” and most come because of internal events.

It is unfortunate that you, JW members, who see the reality within WTJWorg, are still trying to defend what is indefensible. Because if a certain theology still lives in WTJWorg, and you are willing to support and defend it, how will you feel when it is changed, and you knew something was wrong?

Some of you are already resisting the "nonsense" that comes from GB, while at the same time you are watching some of your spiritual brothers and sisters stumble under the burden of theology that you are aware has failed. ............. Don't you feel sad? Don't you want to help them not be afraid of man?

As far as I know I’ve never tried to defend the undefendable……which all religions are guilty of…yes as well as us….your blind to deep understandings serko ..and ones like you….it’s right there for you to read but you have to have insight…you have deceived yourself into thinking you are awake…and you genuinely believe what you feel ….like a sheep that has wandered into the wilderness only to be devoured by the beasts. 

where I did Joshua run to…where did Kaleb run to…did they run out and away from Gods people….

No..and they didn’t beat their fellow brothers and sisters either…they stood back…and waited for Moses ( Jesus ) to come back and clean the mess up..which he did.

What the likes of you are doing is presumptuous…you think you can do the job that only Jesus can do….even the apostles never showed such self righteousness and presumptuousness as you are.

When Jesus cleaned up the temple with a whip …did they step up with him and help him….no…because they had no right to….yet you think you are needed to straighten Us all out….

Gods people have always disappointed him down thru the ages..and he always disciplined them and corrected them….it’s not your job nor anyone else’s right   to do that.

what you are doing is what Jehovah HATES…and that is to cause divisions and doubts and to weaken one’s faith even in the creator…..how many have left the org and gone on to become atheists…or gone back to BTG…to the belief of the trinity and idol  worship…..heaps sereko…

Have you ever asked yourself if you have been guilty of extinguishing someone’s flickering flame …and been guilty of killing some one’s faith of entirely ….you want to be careful..because some one is watching the damage you do…and yes watching the damage we do….we all will be accountable..

Do I feel sad…..you bet!..I’ve had a lot of reasons to feel genuine righteous anger…but I don’t beat those around me who lack the insight I have had to dig deep to understand as to why such things happen…
Your bitterness is your undoing…and until you master it…you will never get such insight as to why Jehovah allows the wrongs he does.

YOU…are the one that was afraid of man…and others like you here…you bowed to their errors…..they broke you…because you don’t really know Jehovah and how he works and why he does certain things.

YOU let them change you serko…..and you don’t even know the woe you are bringing on your own head because of what you and others here are trying to do.

Your so full of self righteousness that you accuse us of…

Moses is not the type of the GB..nor Arron of the helpers….

When some one stumbles serko….we pick them up…we carry them…we don’t beat them and endanger their faith…your ignorance is bathed in bitterness and blindness…..so therefore you cannot and will not ever see the pattern laid down of Gods people since their existence….nor how Jehovah deals with them.

On 11/15/2019 at 5:22 AM, DespicableME said:

This is a spot on characterization here, that's also my opinion.

Something like Aaron making the golden calf because the people told him to make that false idol, just because Moses was taking to long to return. I forget, what happened to those people?

Rubbish….what you have here are witnesses who do not worship the GB and can think for them selves yet still respect the GB in promoting and getting the basic plan that Jehovah’s has for the world out to the people.

They make mistakes and some big ones at that…the disfellowshlpment over organ transplanting is one of them….

They make mistakes just like any other ancient Godly men of old…just like King David did….just like Moses did…just like Peter did….

we just do not panic and flee when we see these errors…something may stump us or rattle us…but maturity and understanding that Jehovah uses faulty men aids many of us to stay with in the camp boundaries…at that time we would not have hung around the mob that demanded the building of the golden calf…..as tempting as it may have been when one is in panic mode which is what they did.

Im in..and mentally in as well…but I have always seen the GB down thru the ages are mere men who do make mistakes and are not actually inspired…so I and many others act like the beroeans did and check with the scriptures first …

As to what happened to those that followed Aaron with the making of the golden calf….When Moses came back…he still gave them an option of standing beside him…before he ( Jehovah /Jesus) destroyed the rest who did not take him up on that offer….around 3,000 were destroyed…not a huge number compared to the millions that came out.

That is a lesson for all witnesses today…not to leave the camp because of trouble with in it even if that trouble comes from someone as high up as the second man in charge as Arron was…..actually the first man in charge whilst Moses was absent…..a thought to ponder on…

I’m not saying that there are not witnesses who do exactly as the GB always directs thinking it comes directly from Jehovah…because there are…but there are many who sit and listen and work things out for them selves…as we have here on this site….

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Changing back to Russell's view has happened with several teachings, including the elder arrangement, identification of the superior authorities, etc. But I also give Rutherford great credit in getting us out of idolatry, not just with the pagan celebrations, but with the idolizing of Russell himself. Rutherford claimed that the brotherhood was literally worshiping Russell and he called it "creature worship."

But we shouldn't get the idea, of course, that Russell was always such a paragon of virtue himself. He lied in court about business matters he had involved the Watchtower with. And when his perjury was obvious, Russell changed his story 180 degrees. Rutherford knew these things about Russell, having been his attorney, as his defense of Russell in 1915 shows.

Curiously, right up to the last book of the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) the Jews are still being condemned for giving in to idolatry. Yet it was the scribes and Pharisees who deserved credit for freeing the Jews from idolatry from that period forward, so that idolatry was no longer the problem in Jesus' day. It's true that Jesus condemned them for hypocrisy, but Jesus didn't condemn them for all their teachings. In fact, Jesus told his audience that they should still do what the Pharisees tell them to do, just not to do as they do. In Mark, Jesus says to one of them: (Mark 12:34) . . .At this Jesus, discerning he had answered intelligently, said to him: “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”. . . And we also know that not just Nicodemus, but a great many from the Pharisees became believers. And one became an apostle.

I thought that was only over his failed predictions for 1925. And it was evidently only privately to a few persons at Bethel that he admitted this. In the Watchtower he blamed the brotherhood for believing it, rather than admitting that he himself had anything to do with it.

To me, I think all of this is a great lesson that we don't put our trust in earthling man, in whom no salvation belongs. But we appreciate the good teachings and continuing improvements that we have shared together. The copper has become gold. It's not about the overseers themselves, but about what the right motivations bring.

(Isaiah 60:17) . . .Instead of the copper I will bring in gold, And instead of the iron I will bring in silver, Instead of the wood, copper, And instead of the stones, iron; And I will appoint peace as your overseers And righteousness as your task assigners.

If you look closely at the words here, it's not saying that the overseers themselves will be righteous humans, but that we will be led by peace and righteousness "itself." Not humans, specifically. Here's how the NIV puts it:

(Isaiah 60:17, NIV) Instead of bronze I will bring you gold, and silver in place of iron. Instead of wood I will bring you bronze, and iron in place of stones. I will make peace your governor and well-being your ruler.

So, yes, Russell might have sometimes been a perjurer, and Rutherford might have been a "drunken, womanizing, cigar-smoker" (as my old "table head" at Bethel called him). But we still greatly appreciate what has been accomplished over the years. What Jehovah has accomplished is often (as some old-timers still say) in spite of us, not because of us. What must actually be happening is that Jehovah's spirit acts upon us as a group because of our own love for one another. It's not specifically because of what we are always told to believe, but because of our pure and peaceful and righteous motivations. Love and joy and peace and faith, etc., are what bring Jehovah's spirit to all of us, including the good influence on the ones taking the lead.

When he said he’s made a ass of himself it was over a book he wrote…and I forget the actual heading but I’ll have a go st….then is finished the mystery or something like that…it was a study book….I remember the word mystery….and I also remember feeling thankful I wasn’t around at the time as it was a big book to study and then realize all that time and effort would have been wasted…that was the reason why he said that…..I’m not sure of anything else..other than his changes to so many of Russell’s thoughts….of which many as you say have been returned to…thank goodness!

Things we’re rough back in those days…you should here of some of the stories from old Australian brothers and how they reacted to being banned….in the Second World War…a few  physically tried to defend the KHs…..as they were being confiscated legally by the government.Those men back then built and payed for those  halls…life was very hard then.

Different era…different culture…tough people….probably had to be like that to survive those times….must say that was a nice post JWI

On 12/24/2021 at 3:57 PM, Pudgy said:

.... just as a lark, remembering a comment I made frivolously several weeks ago, about the Kingdom Hall Parking Lots being refueling stations for flying saucers, or something to that effect, I Googled "Kingdom Hall Flying Saucer", and this popped up......

"The constellation of the seven stars forming the Pleiades appears to be the crowning center around which the known systems of the planets revolve.... It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of that group is the dwelling place of Jehovah and the place of the highest heavens;.... The constellation of the Pleiades is a small one compared with others which scientific instruments disclose to the wondering eyes of man. But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared to the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God."

J. F. Rutherford, Reconciliation, 1928, p. 14.

 

...... My first thought was wondering what the ellipses in the quote were leaving out, that it may have been taken completely out of an overall context.  (I do not have the book "Reconciliation")

Other than being completely false and embarrassingly wrong cosmology, any comments?

Rutherford himself admitted he ..”had made a complete ass of himself over a lot of his writing..”….he was the one that changed the understanding of the ark representing or a type of Jesus….to representing the org……and if you stop and think about the ramifications by that it’s mind numbing…the GB has since changed it back to Russell’s understanding……but I give Rutherford great credit in getting us out of idolatry with the pagan celebrations…Jehovah puts up with a lot from ones he sees fit to use…..thank goodness !!!

On 12/24/2021 at 9:27 AM, Anna said:

He's probably Allen Smith, under one of his many pseudonyms...

Aaaaah…we’ll that’s a lesson learnt for me,..✌️

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Does, answering a question with a question a gimmick Jehovah Witnesses often use, instead of answering a simple question. I find it hard to encourage someone to be a Jehovah's Witness with such an attitude as a student of the bible. Does everyone here need to be a Jehovah's Witness or Ex-Witness in order to be here in this forum. I get rude criticism from both the hard left and right. 

Have you asked the same question of Space Merchant?

What is the purpose then to hold an open forum, if only you people can comment? Does this mean, I will need to be rude and obnoxious as most are here, in order to be accepted into this fold?

I asked a question on why @JW Insider was so concerned about China he was willing to defend a corrupt regime. I didn't engage in his personal politics of China as @Arauna is doing. There is no need for me to do that. 

If I wanted to engage in politics, I would offer the US finding of Human Organ trafficking by China that many institutions are aware of with the Chinese prison population. Well documented evidence of Chinese Hospitals preforming transplants on the same day an execution was preformed. These are human atrocities that happen by corrupt regimes. Even though China signed the Organ Harvesting act of 1984, it has not complied. Jehovah will erase all those regimes that have nothing to do with Christ Kingdom. 

No need to ask anyone if they are a JW here…but you did…arauna is..it’s obvious to all..so why the need to insult her with that question.

I dont ask space merchant as I know he isn’t….but I respect him and his beliefs…as far as I have seen he’s never insulted anyone…and I have learnt from him.

Look Dmitar..you seem to have been around the forums before …you sound experienced enough…..and no…people here shouldn’t be rude and abnoxious…it’s not the Christian way….but we are all so imperfect…we are all battling our own weaknesses …which is why I stepped back as I can be just as bad and my fruit ages of the spirit were flying out the window..but hey…you have had a few digs yourself…your human…

but why do you want to be included in this fold…but as you say…it’s an open forum…so good luck with it.

9 hours ago, Dmitar said:

How does your attitude comply with scripture? Are you implying a Christian should not be a slave to God? I obey my creator YHWH, who do you obey with being part of this world, when it shouldn't be invoked in a Christian life? Are you a Jehovah's Witness?

Are you one?….being a witness of the Almighty does not make us push overs..or doormats….I dont join in a lot here because it gets a bit childish ….but do not be mistaken Dmitar….Jesus is the Chief Commander of Jehovahs army…he trained and was with Joshua and Kaleb and their ilk to go in and slaughter men women and children and to do so without any compassion  or sorrow….and he had good reasons for that tough seemingly cruel action….why are YOU here…if you are not JW…do you want to find error with us…..don’t bother….we have a massive amount of errors that have proven to be cruel and ruthless at times……I am not like some here who won’t acknowledge them….but…we also have much love and empathy…and the ONLY people that put Jehovahs name back on high where it belongs…however you want to pronounce it….they/we are also the only people that organized a massive preaching work at much effort and cost to get Jehovahs plan known and the hope out to the nations…..all that even with those massive errors…and just for that one fact alone…he will reward any….ANY…who have tried to do that……….so what is it you want from here….why are you here?

On 11/17/2021 at 12:49 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

So am I right that if the spikiness of the S protein allows it to penetrate cells so as to infect, the spikiness of the antigen produced upon stimulation by the shot is just as architecturally dangerous, even though not infectious? And so, that is why you do want to take out the virus should it appear, but you want to do so through safer means, the ones being discredited? And that, unless and until the virus appears, meanwhile the spikiness of the shot inflicts damage of its own?

Yes you are right.

17 hours ago, NoisySrecko said:

Thank you friend. However, an antigen would not simulate a virus spikiness as indicated. It mimics the mitochondrial in order to achieve its goal. How would an mRNA vaccine be harmful? Can you expand on your thought? 

I understand you claim not to be an expert, and you consider your sources to be trustworthy. The majority of the scientific community agrees mRNA to be safe. Are these sources you consider trustworthy, academic in nature? Have they acquired a per-review? 

The majority of the scientific community are basically toeing the line or are genuinely ignorant due to the artfully contrived propaganda and the deliberate blocking of true science being spoken off.

Dont use google or utube…they are useless and tools to the satanic agenda….you have to go to places like… BITCHUTE ….RUMBLE …NEW YOU TUBE … …BRIGHTON…there are many others but I can not keep up with them…..look for the specialists in the field of vaccinations ..science and medicine…

A few names to give you a head start….

Geert Vandon Bosch…..this poor man is highly credentialed and a expert on vaccination….he’s also a very brave and principled man….what he foretold would happen has eventuates …my advice would be to watch all of his videos especially his first one …

Dr Robert Malone….one of the creators of the MRNA vaxination pathways…again highly credentialed and brave man.

Prof Delores Cahill…

Dr David Martin….fascinating to listen to….on the patterns and vaccination laws etc…..personally I think he is in the genies category…tho I may not agree with some of his other topics..on this subject he is amazing with his knowledge 

Catherine Austin

Dr Richard Fleming….

Dr Peter Mc Cullough….incredibly brave and highly credentialed in a number of fields ..

Judy Mikovitis….very brave woman…

Dr Mike Yeardon….very highly specialized and very brave man…..as he said..we are standing at the gates of hell!

You will see some of these men just break down and cry..due to the implications this is having on mankind and them being gagged as to getting it out to the population.

You may already know all of these and researched them yourselves….I’m don’t mean to assume you haven’t…sp please don’t be offended …but this is just scratching the surface of the MOST HIGHLY SPECIALIZED EDUCATED SCIENTIST speaking out but are being deliberately silenced and gagged by others working for the dark side…

remember they don’t all agree with each other over every detail …nor do I…but on the main points and basic facts…and science they all are in agreance with…the implications for mankind is terrifying…

Indeed looking at it from a cold hearted unemotional stand..it has been a master stroke ..a undeniable genius act or war strategy  by Satan….

12 hours ago, Arauna said:

As I said before - the UN agreements are binding and I discovered a new agreement which Obama made just before he left office.  The Kigali agreement allows the UN to come in with a neutral military's force when there appears to be anarchy in a country - the UN can override the countries' autonomy.  This is why they are stoking so much discord with racism etc.... so UN can claim its stake.

Agenda 2030 is like an image or plan they are holding out to all the nations in front of them and they are under obligation to follow it.  193 out of 196 nations signed Agenda 2030.  The final prophecies are in place and being carried out.   We are just waiting for them to get rid of religions and declare one world religion... or so it seems they are trying to do..... 

The WEF is implementing Agenda 2030 and a few of their own goals which is transgenderism and transhumanism. 

A future technocratic government which wants mankind to take control of their own destiny by helping evolution along (via gene therapies) to go into the direction they want to steer it. We are going into the nano-tech era where everything will be genetically engineered.

A friend of mine in South Africa told me today one cannot produce your own seeds any longer (hybrid seeds to make seeds) - one has to buy seeds for genetically engineered crops.  Why is this?  Because they are engineering everything (even nature) genetically so they can put a price and ownership on it.  if you own the patent then someone has to pay for it....... even humans, animals are not exempt. They are genetically engineering everything!.... even the S-protein!

Australian politicians have openly stated we are in the New world Order….and also in a three year trial with this vaccination…( which isn’t a vaccination at all ) .we are now waiting to see if this bill will pass in the upper house…which gives the Victorian premier dictatorship powers….then each state will acquire the same powers ….the people are rising up in the tens of thousands…and the government are goading the people to attack…

It feels like we are living in the movie Green Solvent….and yes I agree with you about the s protein….but comfort comes knowing it’s Bible prophecy playing out …

On 11/13/2021 at 12:52 AM, Space Merchant said:

The thing is some of us saw the writing on the wall. In my case, I was called a lair and a conspiracy theorist, likewise with those in the community I am in, excluding CSE, who is strictly Bible talk.

Australia has fallen, therefore as protesting is on the rise, the media attempts to hide it, moreover, because of the situation, this gives the green light to Opportunists who can commit crimes, rape, violence, etc. It is bad to the point that even Truthers in Australia are overwhelmed, likewise with Independent Journalists.

That being said, the situation with them is slowly infecting other countries with Germany, UK, Italy being slowly engulfed. In China, the Evergrande Group situation made this even worse.

I mentioned before, in regards to the United States, although the situation is slowly building up, the only thing preventing a major and or instant shift is the US Constitution, ironically, many people and groups, even the UN, is attempting to stamp down, specifically the first and second amendment.

 

It has to be…The Old World Order is dying …thus making way for The New World Order…

On 11/2/2021 at 11:24 PM, Equivocation said:

I never really follow news but it usually gets into social media and apps.

I often see people mention media even on here so my question is why is there such a strong push for false information?

No into politics but the whole Biden thing is crazy. From what I have seen, seems like hate voting to get this guy into office and people are getting censored out of the blue as well as taken out of context. 

The push for false information is to keep the masses calm while they put into action the satanic agenda…it appears that Satan now has everyone one he wants in strategic positions WORLDWIDE..that is in every country to do his bidding…the virus and vaccination is just a Trojan horse to his next big move….thus the need to calm and stupidify the people….so they do not rise up and make things messy and harder for them…..here in Australia this false information or propaganda has been used by a master craftsman who is a professional  at it…..just as he relayed false information to Eve and created the first major doubt in truth…and as he has done thru out mankind’s history.

the exception now is that he has accomplished it worldwide…which would indicate Jehovah’s appointed time may be on the cusp of action….for as Russell pointed out that the governments of the world will at some time become so oppressive that the people would rise up and rebel…and this would eventually lead to anarchy….at which point if left unchecked no flesh would be left…

Never before has Australia been hit with such constant relentless propaganda that has successfully been able to turn Australians on each other…..yes there was propaganda  during the Second World War…but it United Australians….this is devised to break and separate and fill one with fear….to wear each out to accept the mark of the beast fully……..and it is in action world wide.

False information is how Satan works…the father of the lie gets so much of his work done thru that one thing….indeed…..May God help us all !