Thinking

That comment about a fellow brother shows you have a real problem with ego….and a great need to be right……can you prove he did that…..or could that come under a false accusation against a fellow brother……Personally I don’t think anyone knows and you need to stop chasing this and be a little bit humble and stop shoving your thoughts down everyone’s throats…Whoever did it could see it was causing disruptions and unnecessarily contentions and debating proving fruitless……and none of it promoting peace amongst brothers….you do well to perhaps give some credit to whomever did it and stop your self promotion of your belief. I couldn’t care less about dates…..so give it a rest …no honest hearted true brother would do what you are doing to prove your personal point…you are relentless in your crusade… you are one big red flag to me!!!! you are like a a broken record and I for one no longer even read your ramblings and copy and pastes….

Keep looking ..your bound to find it eventually …

I KNOW I will be ..

When one understands WHY things are the way they are…one then gets a certain peace ..that others who are spiritually naked cannot…then we can go with ease and chew on the bone because we know these things Must take place. Im glad I know about it….at times I wish I didn’t….but then I would be sick with worry and in fear because of not knowing the way out… This tribulation is less painful because we understand this….but hey…I’ll beat you to the fridge door….you can have the bone…I’ll have the drink 🍺

You can live in the most beautiful of places that are still a hell hole because of the people that live there…the hell hole was what he would have made that place into a emotional hell hole…full of fear and anxiety. Jehovah made eden exquisite for Adam and Eve…they were then to go out and make the rest of the world such as he had given them…..they had to subdue it Gen 1:28….be fruitful and fill the earth and subdue it…..so there was work involved to make it such a paradise as Jehovah had given them,,, we know he planted a special garden TOWARD THE EAST…that’s where he put the man whom he had formed Gen 2:8. It is interesting about the east bit…Gen 3:23 says he was expelled from that garden…where all the blessings were…and into the land of sweat and hardwork and thistles…..they no longer had the blessings of favored rain and growth of plants etc….they were expelled out of the Eastern part of Eden…..they had rejected that gift from Jehovah. we know they were expelled to a harsher land because of what Gen 3:17 says and to Adam he said because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command YOU MUST NOT EAT FROM IT….CURSED is the ground on your account in Pain you will eat from its produce all the days of your life . It will grow thistles for you and you may eat the vegetation of the field and In The sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground ….. so yes Jehovah did make it lovely but even before they were put out of eden their job was to subdue the earth….great work to do because Jehovah’s blessings were with them…rain..good fruit trees and abundance of sweet water etc…but they lost his help….when exiled into a land without his blessings…. So Adam and eve along with Cain now lived in a harsher place….so up comes pudges question …Gen 4 :11..because Abels blood cried out from the earth….he banished Cain from that ground ( and now you are cursed in BANISHMENT FROM THE GROUND that has opened its mouth to receive your brothers blood from your hand, The scriptures go on to say he had to leave the land he grew up in..and wander…and a FUGITIVE IN THE EARTH. FUGITIVE…CAMBRIDGE ENGLISH DICTIONARY A person who is running away or hiding from the police or a dangerous situation…. This is why he was fearful…and worried about his future …..when it would become known by others…so he went to the land of Exile to the east of eden…Cain lived for over 700 years…lots of time to produce….some of those may have felt vindicated if they had killed him….imagining they would get some sort of blessing from Jehovah for it….who really knows.. King David’s son aspired to kill him and take over control of the kingship…why not one of cains descendants try the same thing and make out it was because of what he did to Abel…justifying his action?….who really knows….but there is no evidence in the Bible that others lived in that land he was exiled to…but if you find any I’d be interested.. But this story has a lot more meaning than any of us really understand…but then we get into types and anti types…. where ever Cain went…his personality and those of his descendants would have made that place into a hell hole to live….I certainly would not want them as my neighbors….

Sorry don’t know how that happened ???..I cannot get it bigger than this

no need to apologize as we really don’t know…that’s just my understanding of it at this point….when we eventually find out the truth of the matter we may all be gob smacked with the real facts … that question I had pondered on myself sometime ago…..so I’m open to having to change my mind…I’ve just never read an acceptable alternative….

Unfortunately..I get that …

Not necessarily….the elements ha e been explained as the structural organizations wether they be governmental or health or financial….sometimes I wonder if the internet is exposing their darkness now ….so much we do t really know…

Huge respect to you….!!!!! What you did was very brave…..I agree with all that you said…thank goodness your wife has you …

1:..I’m guessing that watching his father and mother live a long life he knew his reputation would follow him where ever he went and I’m sure..many ( yet to be born ) and who knows how many other brothers and sisters there were…..would have not felt thankful for bringing them into a cursed situation….so he was thinking about his future… 2) must have been even worse than where his parents were banished to???..I mean if he went there it would end up as the hell hole of the world. 3) all the way to OZ…hey anything outside of eden was exile….his exile must have been really bad….but considering today…maybye it was still better than a lot of the existing world as we know it…we will have to ask when all this is over… 4) who said they never had tools….who would have loved to have given them forbidden knowledge to wreck ruination and to start up HIS world wide society…and what was the definition of a city back then to what it is now….my town is called a city…which consists of just over ten thousand….LA is a city which I think consists of all of Australia’s population or pretty close….so what type of city did they build in their loooong life time…. 5..nobody inhabited eden….they were All in exile of to different degrees it seems….Cain killing his brother shows a incredible flaw in the mans personality…..what chance for any off spring not to have this same flaw( or any others of that time period ) especially with the demons walking around like a lion ready to devour them all…😈…hellbent on directing them…☠️.it always amazes me how quickly such serious sins prevailed……poor Abel….poor mankind… 6..not sure I’d want to marry my brother even if he was perfect 🤮…but I would imagine a lot of years between them may have been the case…?…..?

I’m expecting to lose it all.....and it will be a final testing of sorts for many of us.....somehow I’m thinking..rightly or wrongly? ...when it does all go...the visible structures of Jehovah’s witnesses...it has to some how represent...the scattering of the apostles..when Jesus was taken into custody and trial...and killed... The most favored and trusted ..fled and were confused after his death...they actually went back to work fishing...not knowing what to do. They did not cope with out his visible presence..even tho he had explained it to them. How will we cope without a visible bricks and mortar..or if zoom also goes down? Even Jesus himself cried out ...My God My God why have you forsaken me!!...he FELT it had gone on too long........in moments of anguish..will we as a people feel we have been tricked...will our faith and trust be tested when it all goes...and if he allows it all to go? I am thinking that it also corresponds with the Israelites on leaving Egypt in organized safe military style escape. When they were bought up against the sea..against the mountains...and hearing the chariots and horses of Egypt bearing down on them...in fear..and lack of trust In Jehovah..they felt they had been deceived...and cried out to Moses and ready to stone him for tricking them...will he allow the same situation come upon his modern day people in the last days? Why not?....if he allowed his own son for a very brief time to think he had been a abandoned...why not us his motley crew of people. We cannot look back and yearn for the days of KHs and skin on skin stuff....we cannot yearn for the leeks and onions and pots of meat... We have been trained as a people..and every time one of us here took a stand against a pagan holiday such as Xmas or Valentine’s Day or whatever.....which blatantly is a form of idol worship to a pretend demon God.......we were in training for what is coming...he was getting us ready to take a even stronger stand that seems to be about to happen. We must not be like Hezekiah who proudly showed of all his riches of gold etc...who put his faith in such...only to be punished by losing the lot... Even the good Kings had wrong attitudes about such things... and he learned from that. Havings said this I ask myself would I have been one that went into panic mode when my back was up against the mountains and wall of sea and hearing the thundering of horses bearing down on me and my family.....probably ......would I have been one that moaned about forty years of manna.....more than likely .... I like to think....or hope....that now I have the scriptures and read their examples....and had more training than those Israelites after 400 years of captivity ...Well..I hope I do a bit better.....time will tell shortly I guess.

Unfortunately these sites and others such as e watchman...e JW ..and beroeans pickets...of which at some stages and many years I was a member of ...and of which I usually got disfellowshipped or banned from. All start out ..promoting Jehovah’s people as Gods true people but in serious error...hence their web sites...and they also go on to promote their own understandings on certain issues.. The serious matter that happens with such places is that they are refusing and lacking trust in Jehovah to be able to correct, allow..and rule his people as he sees fit. Thus they act in a presumptions manner trying to do what he has not done ( in their minds) and eventually they go on to claim JWs were never a people he used anyway etc etc. yet many have had doubtful thoughts answered in a proper scriptural manner..thus they become trusting...and primed for future deceiving. Jehovah is allowing these places to exist...as a winnowing...many have come to understand this...some unfortunately get caught up and deceived by these ones who themselves are deceived...they are not evil...but like Eve ....thoroughly deceived. I also have read ray Franz...but it strengthened my faith that Jehovah does indeed use a faulty people...I read his second book and binned it half way thru as I could see what he was doing....much like in time such web sites you have named and I have been on do. They promote their own understandings..(all seem to become anointed...).most feel they are needed to do this I guess..because they truly LACK TRUST that Jehovah does not see the errors and will fix them when he is ready. The thing is...most of these are lovely people..nicer..kinder ...better in personality ..and deeds ..than myself....but this too is a trap in itself.. He USES faulty sinful men..men who make serious errors...such as Moses Jonah..King David..and yes even and more so theGB...to get his job done but to teach us and them...it is HE...and only HE..who achieves his desired plans...regardless of who he uses. On line has always been a playground for the demons ...they are very very active on all sites...they are enticing To hurt and stumbling ones....but they will devour them off course...but not all are deceived..not all fall prey to them.... This has serious consequences as all witnesses need to learn...Moses did not make it into the promised land for a number of reason...Firstly he railed at the people for the being rebellious...of which he had no right to do nor was he commanded to say that...He forgot..THEY WERE JEHOVAHS PEOPLE...not his.......and then he hit the rock twice..in anger...expressing a leaning on his own understanding and a feeling and lack of trust in Jehovah that it needed it...( there is more to that hitting the rock twice which is very serious but I won’t enter into here ) Also he promoted himself and Aaron here in a presumptuous manner. This is what happens on line ...ones who suddenly claim to be anointed ..and feel directed by this anointing to correct or safely guide JWs to a real place of spiritual security...thus a lack of faith that their God of Who they claim to worship can not do this . Jehovah’s Witnesses get more hate and abuse on line than the Natzis ...some of it earned..some of it not..a lot of it directly from demons using certain types of personalities.......and unless you are prepared to understand how Jehovah deals with his people down thru time...and WHY...it will definitely stumble some.... You are right..this is not a Jehovah’s Witness site....and I’m giving you your just due in saying that....and there should be a warning as such for ones who come here... Having said all of that...many go to such sites because of huge errors and pain they experience in certain congregations.. This must be acknowledged..and recognized ..some things that have been allowed is nothing short of ruthless and cruel.....but this has always been amongst his people..when certain kings ruled ruthlessly over his people...he allowed it...I now view it as a testing for me .. I also have seen great love and genuine care...of which tips the scales to the better degree. Being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses means their really is a world bond like no Other I can think of....if you travel overseas and bump into a brother or sister and it becomes known to both parties...their is a great exuberance of fellow feeling and love to a stranger...even for that short moment of pleasantry exchanges..there is a bond...and it’s undeniable.. One could physically feel it at our last assembly when all the songs were played at the end of the convention....at that time...all the errors and pain become a thing of the past...and we were just a motley lot of people try to bend our knees to Our Great Creator....and it was a glimpse of what it will be like in the New World ... Lastly I would like to say...I do not believe that a real anointed one would ever go on line and sow seeds of doubt..and put any brothers and sisters life in danger so as they may risk a spiritual death....nor would they be discreet in claiming to be one.... I have no issues with a chatty forum amongst brothers and sister and discussing subjects not openly discussed amongst us for whatever reasons....I think some...were once like that..and I enjoyed them ....but .then they seem to slowly morph into a hatred of anything to do with the watchtowers or JWs...or even using Jehovah’s name. I don’t always agree with you Billy...but I do back you with renaming this site with a warning...because there are obvious apostates on here...but my view of apostasy is different to yours I think...but I know we would agree with the ones I’m thinking off....

I still miss him..I liked him...I would have loved working with him in a car group or on the doors...and he was NOT a proven apostate....and I’ll stick up for him because nobody knows his full story and no one here can read his heart ....Just for the record Billy I am an active witness and approved In Good standing and conducting Bible studies still.... At times I Unjoin this group because it doesn’t help me with my fruit ages of the spirit..so I cannot respond impulsively......but when I’m mentioned I will respond. How come Billy if you are a witnesses you are not in the closed group...please come there...and I agree..not everyone there would be a witness...but we can not prove nor prove they are not...and I am very wary..which is a wise thing to be on line. Sorry Tom this come up under you but I meant to answer Billy...

Here’s another good one

Arauna ..I think Sis we need to let this person have the last say...or we become like him....don’t waste your precious spiritual energy...I’m not sure what is going on here but it’s not healthy...it’s time to back away for the sake..not of those participating...but for sake of those who may be reading this and dismayed at how low we all have become...me included ... none of this thread is dignified...or mature... Jesus didn’t even look at Herod as he was so disgusted with him... you know the old saying...If there is no wood,...there is no fire...I admire your tenacity...

I’ve heard this story before....I’m trying to figure out on which forum and from whom?????

Aaaah...librarian....I so love Phil Hayworth talks..some have been taken down and it was such a great loss..I have listened to this a few times and now will listen again....he has another fantastic one called.....ARE YOU TIED TO JEHOVAH ...or something like that....it’s brilliant....I came into the truth on these types of talks.....much appreciated !!!!!!

Well I was loath to chime in on this subject I admit ...and it probably would have been wiser to not say a thing..and yes I broke my own rule over this. Because it declines into a emotional school yard cat fight... but you also do not fully understand either Billy....NONE..of us here do...not really. But I know first hand of certain issues here in Australia..I watched all of the ARC..talked with victims and elders...know of certain cases...intimately ..so can speak from experience... The way they were handled by elders and the Branch directions of the time..and how victims were handled...and the frustrations of elders and the victims. I listen to witnesses who have got things a bit wrong...sometimes a lot wrong...and a lot right . I listen to Ex JWs who have got some things right and some things wrong... It is not as simple or straightforward forward as so many believe....it is not black and white I have distorted nothing...I am just more balanced over this subject .than you Agreeing with anEx Jw on certain matters does not make one their Alia..it’s just acknowledging a fact that may be correct in a certain issue at a certain time. as far as chiming in..we have discussed this before me with you actually...and that didn’t end very well either....you told me you were not my brother...so as I said...I am loath to enter such a discussion..it goes round and round in circles with insults thrown at each other....and everyone becomes like rabid dogs biting at each other and thinking it is okay because it is a forum...and thinking Jehovah is going to accept such behaviour and excuse us of it.....and I include myself in this as well. I wish you well CC..I’m not to sure who you are...as I’m not to sure who anyone is here ... As far as a culture thing...Jehovah’s laws are laws...I once had a elder say to me over a very serious matter.....” well it’s not how Australians are”.... no I thought...but it is how Jehovah is...... I won’t reply on this matter again....but I stand by my words and will not back off from them even tho I will remain silent... Witnesses are allowed to disagree with each other..we are not robots....it does not make us apostates...or idiots...just people with differing views ...which may change at any given time..and also may not change. I don’t always agree with Toms view..nor he with mine...but what a great conversation we would have in a car group.. You yourself have distorted facts..as have certain ex JWs....it’s a mess all around and it’s so hard to find ANY one Who can have a balanced view over it. I do not speak out ignorance ..but deal with facts..everything else is a waste of time and effort..

Arauna I agree with so much of what you say...but as a people we shouldn’t have needed the ARC..to do the right thing....that’s what some are arguing here. And they are right....BUT..we have corrected the error..even if it was forced on us....our policies have been updated..and this would never happen again...it will never be sorted in house or quietly . we are under Jehovah’s Laws...and there are no loopholes with them...but he taught us...thru the ARC.

He will probably treat them like he did the thief on the stake next to him but the thing is he repented at the last moment...where as the other fellow didn’t ......so what happens to him....wouldn’t he be covered by Jesus ransom...?

I’m guessing it will go so far as tho we may feel we have been deceived or tricked....or he has completely forgotten us.... I hope not but I often wonder if we will be tested as Jesus was... Mathew 27:46 My God My God why has thou forsaken me.... ( how utterly terrifying to feel that ) and STILL REMAIN faithful to A God who you think has left you..

The elders didn’t screw up Anna..it was the way things were done back then...their hands were tied....we have to acknowledge that...our policies have changed because of the ARC....

Your exactly right brother....I often think as you just articulated..we know so much but really so little....Jehovah loves a seeker..a searcher of the scriptures...but that doesn’t mean the reward will be any different than one that’s is not quiet so interested in scriptures ..but has bowed their knee to their God Jehovah. The things we may grasp a little earlier can be a stumbling stone..as Jesus was with the Pharisees...or it can develop in us a much admired and treasured thing...that is highly favoured by Jehovah...humility and grace in remembering where we came from..( I was sort of a heathen from the world ) I owe my life because of the witnessing work..organised by the then GB I liken us as the same as the Israelites that were cornered at the Red Sea...Pharaoh bearing down and the mountains on one side the sea in the front ... So where is this God Jehovah they all submitted to...nothing is turning out as promised...let’s stone Moses and Aaron in our fear or disappointment... ( and NO I do not liken Moses to the GB) BUT..ones perhaps with a little more faith..or insight ...bore up..and did not panic..or push ahead...now THAT is the type of faith he loves....mind you they were probably wetting themselves in fear whilst waiting for him to act. We know so very little..even when we say we know a lot!..( or think it) and besides....I remember where I came from🙂 I’m not sure if it is intentional as you think..perhaps it is...but it’s very important as to how we act with insights we may THINK we have....it’s there for all to search for.......but we often have to search so hard....we have to use the lamp..and bend our back...possibly in a uncomfortable position for a long time to find that spiritual gem or insight. But how we handle that gem. Shows our true personality...

I THINK..which doesn’t mean a lot...but hear goes..from what I’ve read..the Alpha and Omega can mean both Jesus and Jehovah...Jesus being the first creation of Jehovah and the last creation by him to be resurrected . Its a title that they both can lay rightful ownership off...( obviously only after Jesus proved successful ) I have also come to the conclusion that no one can understand Revelation unless they really understand the Hebrew Scriptures ...the secrets or keys to understand revelation is in them.