Thinking

I must have zoned out at that one…

Sometimes I wonder if Jehovah allows these things to see who will follow man and who will have worked on their faith hard enough to to see thru this…bit like when Aaron built the golden calf and many even tho they demanded it were prepared to get all excited and party over it….where as others quietly stood back knowing it wasn’t right….actually I dont know if they quietly stood back as I would imagine Kaleb and Joshua have at least something to say about it….but been respectful of Aaron’s position I suppose…….there always seems to be these tests of following men or Our God…and again as Anna I don’t mean their excellent biblical advice…just these odd things of comparing themselves to prophets etc.. sorry JWI we seem to have derailed your and Wally’s communications

It was stated by a bethel brother at an assembly…we were quiet relieved to hear it..it was when they were asking us if we had kept up with the changes…that was one of them….2006 is old news now. Also brother Luchiani ( however you spell it ) gave a very recent talk on …only Jesus knows who will be saved…it was a excellent talk…you could tell he was reminding us…it wasn’t as blatant as the talk at the assembly and that talk was well after 2006 Yes I still hear some talks given saying our life will depend on our loyalty to the org…..but I have never heard them equate the org with the ark since that assembly talk.. just on a side note I know it’s an organization but personally I prefer Gods people to organization…..the Israelites were GODS PEOPLE….the Jews were GODS PEOPLE…..The Christian’s were GODS PEOPLE….perhaps it’s something that’s just me…a little bit of a quirky thing,

It’s okay JWI…I hadn’t actually finished my comment when I posted…and I’m just grateful the teaching has been changed….Jesus was a stumbling block for his own people…..and I beleive the organization at times has been like that with their own…a stumbling block.".the sadness of it at times is just overwhelming for those who dont survive.

C’mon JWI..we both know he had the power to scotch that new light dead in the water…he promoted it…and to write it in the Childrens book is even worse…in fact disgusting… That became a solid teaching we were taught and taught others…it mis represented Jesus ..and was based on a lie….why can we not just come out and say that…it helps no one trying to beat round the bush with this.. It did an enormous amount of damage to so so many….and also to Jehovah’s own name and personality . Walter Rutherford was more than a legal head and lawyer protecting Gods people…he was and did change scriptural understandings and even tho disclaimed the name of Pastor…he acted as such…no matter what he said publicly….and bought in lots on New Light that since then the modern day GB have had to rectify…

One day, over 8 million followers will dwindle to some. The question is, what side will we be on. this wasn’t said so bluntly as said here….but Bethel brothers in recent past have said it as innuendo….sort of read between the lines…and if you were not alert to his talk..it could be missed…

Did he or did he not change the understanding that the ark no longer represented Jesus and baptism to meaning the ark represented the organization?

Thank you…I know we dont often take into consideration these all lived a whole different world and era….what was okay back them…would never be legally possible today nor even an accepted thing in the community,,, And again some of this is here say or passed down..some written and with proof …all I know even tho I prefer Russell’s demeanour and his will for how things should go forward….we owe Rutherford credit for many things,,,,but I still think he unnecessarily laid the ground work for beating the sheep and making the truth harsh…just not what Russell wanted,

He might not answer so I will ….probably the books like Tarzan of the apes edgar rice may have outsold Russell and Ruthfords books. …that’s what Jesus said…not many would listen…and the apostasy you talk of was what they thought was wrong coming out of BTG with all that garbage still on their backs…and just being human I guess…personally if I have found Russell the genteel one and much more humble than Rutherford ,…Rutherford changed quickly things so important and spiritually correct about Jesus and the ark and waters of the flood..represent him to it now representing the org...now one comments on that here but the ramifications of such a massive blunder and probably pride pushed so many good brothers and sister away.. I actually think and I could be wrong the beating of the sheep began then…I’m so relieved the modern day GB returned that to the original understanding,,,,,mind you some things Russel thought and wrote needed to be changed…sorry for butting in..hope that was okay and I hope Walter answers you NICLEY!

Interesting

Joseph Franklin Rutherford (1861-1942): From a large Calvinist family; formerly a small-town lawyer in Missouri; at least once appointed to serve as judge in a case; politically active in Democratic politics. Custodian of Pastor Russell’s last will and testament. Apparently dismissed from Bethel in early 1915, living in Monrovia near Los Angeles, working as a lawyer for a department store in Los Angeles. Forceful in disposition and persuasive. Debated Rev. John H. Troy at First Baptist Church in Glendale, California, April 21-24, 1915. this comes from one of those links….I had read Rutherford had been dismissed from bethel by Russell just before his death….does any one know if this is a true statement….

Wow that group sounds terrific…..I like Shultz tho I have not read of him much lately….I still have a book of his here to read….saving it for when and if the internet goes down…..I really hope those scholars are humble enough to let a little pooping seed picker in amongst them….

Yes if only we could keep track of who said this and that….not to worry….

That’s the key to all of this……step back and look at the big picture…and take the time and relentless prayer to do that……

All good..🙂

Tom who counseld you?..I’m not understanding..

Well all I can say after reading that is…bethel must have been like a nut house!!..and appears run by nuts!… I certainly would not want any of my children to go there….adults or not! As one older elder said here and of whom I would trust my life with..this was said from the platform and said with some despair in his voice. THERE IS NO ONE IN THIS WORLD YOU CAN TRUST BUT JEHOVAH AND JESUS..NO ONE. and I stand by his wise words…….sheesh oh and thanks for those links…I will look them up for sure…

The read about Pearson was interesting…he brought up some valid points tho I dont understand how he could join the Red Cross…and not see the implications of that…nor his stumbling over the fractions issue… This post is very interesting

I would be asking just what sort of pressure he had been under and for how long …and from whom…..and is this in our historical publications….and if not…why not.

This is just plain dumb pudgy…grow up…some things are just not decent to joke about….

Thank you for that info…..I don’t doubt at all that the Wikipedia article had errors…and it’s hard to get to the truth of these matters unless one was alive at the time and involved with all of this….and then one has to realise it’s his opinion and the way he saw things at the time… Certain books are often written by ex witness…so are dubious as to facts surrounding a event….yet some may be accurate..so it’s hard to discern fact from fiction…. Its terribly sad that he obviously had a break down and if what Anna posted it’s even sadder and more tragic…I did read where Russell did have a lot of opposition to him and it was constant bickering from within that he had to contend with…and this should never be… walter may I ask how old you are…..you seem to have a lot of first hand experience of certain things,,,,, At our second last Assembly I observed a very old brother always sitting on his own…so I went and chatted with him for the remaining two days…he was fascinating to listen to…he was involved in building the first KH in Australia….they had massive opposition…and were in a way a bit of a wild bunch…at that time..but they got the job done and I think they needed to be of that character for the times back then…he was legally blind and deaf and couldn’t really hear the talks..yet he was still there…all on his own…..how can one not respect such faith.

Paul Samuel Leo Johnson Born Paul Samuel Leo Levitsky October 4, 1873 Titusville, Pennsylvania, US Died October 22, 1950(aged 77) Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US Occupation Minister Years active 1898–1950 Known for Founder of the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement Notable work Epiphany Studies in the Scriptures Part of a series on Bible Students Communities Free Bible Students Laymen's Home Missionary Movement Publishing houses Dawn Bible Students Association Pastoral Bible Institute Publications The Dawn The New Creation Frank and Ernest (broadcast) Studies in the Scriptures The Photo-Drama of Creation Biographies Charles Taze Russell Jonas Wendell William Henry Conley Nelson H. Barbour Paul S. L. Johnson A. H. Macmillan J. F. Rutherford Conrad C. Binkele Beliefs Jehovah Nontrinitarianism Atonement Dispensationalism Sheol and Hades Resurrection Annihilationism Separations Jehovah's Witnesses Christianity portal v t e Paul Samuel Leo (formerly Levitsky) Johnson (October 4, 1873 – October 22, 1950) was an American scholar and pastor, the founder of the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement. He authored 17 volumes of religious writings entitled Epiphany Studies in the Scriptures, and published two magazines from about 1918 until his death in 1950. The movement he created continues his work and publishes his writings, operating from Chester Springs, Pennsylvania. He was born in Titusville, Pennsylvania on October 4, 1873, to Jewishparents who had recently immigrated from Poland. His father was a prominent Hebrew scholar,[citation needed] and eventually became president of the Titusville synagogue. His mother died when he was 12, and his father remarried, both of which caused him distress; he ran away from home several times. He eventually converted to Christianity and joined the Methodist Church.[clarification needed] In 1890, he entered the Capital University of Columbus, Ohio, and graduated in 1895 with high honors. Records in that University's Library show him enrolled as Paul Levitsky;[citation needed] he then went to the Theological Seminary of the Evangelical Lutheran Joint Synod of Ohioand graduated in 1898. He pastored a Lutheran church for a short time in Mars, Pennsylvania, and was then transferred back to Columbus, Ohio, at St. Matthew's Lutheran Church, which was later razed to make way for highway infrastructure. He soon built a new church building and was noted (by the Capitol University Synod)[citation needed] to have baptized more people and collected less money than any other pastor in the synod. In May 1903 he left the Lutheran Church as a consequence of changes in his beliefs, and began fellowship with the Columbus Ecclesia of the Watch Tower Society. The Lutheran Church later claimed they had disfellowshipped him for heresy, but he had already left them of his own free will.[citation needed] A year later, Pastor Charles Taze Russellappointed him as a Pilgrim of the Bible Student movement. He eventually served as Russell's personal secretary. In time, he became Russell's most trusted friend and advisor.[citation needed] Johnson suffered a nervous breakdown in 1910 a result of withstanding dissidents from within who were challenging the teachings of Pastor C.T. Russell on questions around his understanding of the new covenant and the ransom for all. Johnson left the Watch Tower Society when Joseph F. Rutherford took over its direction after Russell's death. He founded the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement in 1920, and served on its board of directors from 1920 until his death on October 22, 1950. Rutherford changed Russell’s understanding of the ark from that representing Jesus…to representing the organisation….and just from this fast cursory search it doesnt seem he was much of a friend to Rutherford as he was to Russell.

It’s extremely political over here at the moment….incredible…

Just be like a beroean and you should be good to go.

We have a election tomorrow that’s probably why it’s been up and running mad the last few weeks…that and the monkey pox ….has all started and the COVID restrictions appear to be happening again soon…or threatened….