Thinking

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Just to clarify a few things. I am not averse to cooperating with instructions. That is not what I am talking about at all. And I am very appreciative of the constant reminders in WT studies, talks etc. which help us to remain in pure worship. Very grateful for it, and I think the GB are doing an excellent job. And our family does have a backpack ready (ha!)
What really irritates me though is this constant need to harp on about the reason to obey now .....the reason being that if we get used to obeying now,  it will mean our salvation in the future when we have to obey this one last instruction (whatever "impractical" thing that will be) to get saved. That is wrong. It's like a veiled threat. 

Sometimes I wonder if Jehovah allows these things to see who will follow man and who will have worked on their faith hard enough to to see thru this…bit like when Aaron built the golden calf and many even tho they demanded it were prepared to get all excited and party over it….where as others quietly stood back knowing it wasn’t right….actually I dont know if they quietly stood back as I would imagine Kaleb and Joshua have at least something to say about it….but been respectful of Aaron’s position I suppose…….there always seems to be these tests of following men or Our God…and again as Anna I don’t mean their excellent biblical advice…just these odd things of comparing themselves to prophets etc..

sorry JWI we seem to have derailed your and Wally’s communications 

31 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I'm not sure when, specifically, a change was made on this teaching. I still hear the connection between Noah's ark and the earthly organization in recent GB talks. Also this relatively recent Watchtower from 2006:

*** w06 5/15 p. 22 par. 8 Are You Prepared for Survival? ***
Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah’s universal organization.

It was stated by a bethel brother at an assembly…we were quiet relieved to hear it..it was when they were asking us if we had kept up with the changes…that was one of them….2006 is old news now.

Also brother Luchiani ( however you spell it )  gave a very recent talk on …only Jesus knows who will be saved…it was a excellent talk…you could tell he was reminding us…it wasn’t as blatant as the talk at the assembly and that talk was well after 2006 

Yes I still hear some talks given saying our life will depend on our loyalty to the org…..but I have never heard them equate the org with the ark since that assembly talk..

just on a side note I know it’s an organization but personally I prefer Gods people to organization…..the Israelites were GODS PEOPLE….the Jews were GODS PEOPLE…..The Christian’s were GODS PEOPLE….perhaps it’s something that’s just me…a little bit of a quirky thing,

10 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I wasn't trying to beat round the bush. I agree that a lot of damage was done to many. For example, my father and his two sisters (my aunts) received the Children's book in person at the St. Louis assembly. The Children's book made my father and his two sisters reconsider marriage and having children, because it made having children in this system appear untheocratic. My father of course decided to marry and have children, but my two aunts did not have any children, and in later years they were both quite sad about having followed these "instructions from the Lord."

In 1950, the Watchtower was already loosening up on those instructions, as you can see from a Watchtower article that year, but still with the remaining implication that if you want "perfect" children, you should wait:

*** w50 6/1 p. 176 Letter ***
The flood was a real physical catastrophe to the old ungodly world. The Battle of Armageddon will be likewise a physical catastrophe to this present evil world, and not something just spiritual. The ark of salvation that we enter is not a literal ark but is God’s organization; and as for Noah’s family’s not having children while in the ark, if the “other sheep” class’ now having natural children in the “ark” condition vitiated the picture of the childlessness of the ark’s occupants, then the anointed remnant’s having natural children now would also vitiate the “ark” picture or type. But it does not. Children born now are not born in fulfillment of the divine mandate reissued. When God reissued this mandate to marry and reproduce to Noah after the flood (Genesis 9:1, 7) the mandate was fulfilled in a typical way by a token fulfillment, 70 (10 X 7) generations being listed in Genesis, chapter 10, as springing from Noah and his sons. In the same way the fulfillment of the divine mandate reissued after Armageddon will be, not by crowding it with inhabitants to the saturation point, but by a token fulfillment that will allow for the resurrection of the dead with plenty of room for these resurrected ones. Thus, as pointed out in the Watchtower article “The Apostle’s Counsel on Wedlock”, February 1, 1947, page 45, column 2, footnote, God will show that he can have the divine mandate fulfilled in a very literal way in vindication of his world and he will give a faithful demonstration of its fulfillment. Those having part in its fulfillment will still ‘serve God in his temple day and night’ (Rev. 7:15), they will fulfill Deuteronomy 6:7 as to bringing up their children, and their children will fulfill Ephesians 6:1-3 as to obeying their parents, in the same way that the anointed remnant and their children are instructed to obey these divine commandments.

It’s okay JWI…I hadn’t actually finished my comment when I posted…and I’m just grateful the teaching has been changed….Jesus was a stumbling block for his own people…..and I beleive the organization at times has been like that with their own…a stumbling block.".the sadness of it at times is just overwhelming for those who dont survive.

58 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I think that TTH says he is currently reading the book "Children" which includes this idea, but it started earlier. Rutherford tended to make EVERYTHING fall into only two categories, either it was part of Jehovah's organization or Satan's organization:

Children, p.67

Of course, this included not just the earthly part of that organization, but the focus was on the heavenly part. So it was not so much different, in principle, than the way we understood Paul's words in Galatians about Sarah vs. Hagar:

Children, p.79

Of course, Rutherford uses the term organization 160 times in the book Children alone. The problem, in my opinion, is when he focuses too much on the earthly part of the organization, and he accepted that the word of the earthly organization should be seen as the equivalent of the "word of the Lord" himself. The "confusion" started with his very early idea that Jesus came to inspect his "Temple" in 1918. This Temple was the earthly organization, even though you wouldn't have expected that the "Temple" would picture something earthly. There are many times in the publications (under Rutherford) where "salvation" is too closely attributed to the organization, and not Jesus and Jehovah.

Organizational directions, no matter how mundane, became "instructions from the Lord."

Watchtower, 7/1/43, p.204

 

C’mon  JWI..we both know he had the power to scotch that new light dead in the water…he promoted it…and to write it in the Childrens book is even worse…in fact disgusting…

That became a solid teaching we were taught and taught others…it mis represented Jesus ..and was based on a lie….why can we not just come out and say that…it helps no one trying to beat round the bush with this..

It did an enormous amount of damage to so so many….and also to Jehovah’s own name and personality .

Walter Rutherford was more than a legal head and lawyer protecting Gods people…he was and did change scriptural understandings and even tho disclaimed the name of Pastor…he acted as such…no matter what he said publicly….and bought in lots on New Light that since then the modern day GB have had to rectify…

On 5/22/2022 at 3:24 AM, WalterPrescott said:

The above-mentioned comes from my collection of the "Stand Fast Bible Students", a pamphlet called the ship by Bro. C.E. Heard in 1919.

When one does a Historical research of the Watchtower, all coalitions and offshoot sect (associations) are considered! <><

It's not about one's age, but the experience of that research. In my case, 50 years! This is why, I have yet to find fault with the Watchtowers teachings, and it's understanding. 

One day, over 8 million followers will dwindle to some. The question is, what side will we be on. 

Choose Whom You Will Serve (Deuteronomy 10:12–22)
14 Now, therefore, fear the LORD and serve Him in sincerity and truth; cast aside the gods your fathers served beyond the Euphrates and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. 15 But if it is unpleasing in your sight to serve the LORD, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD!”

One day, over 8 million followers will dwindle to some. The question is, what side will we be on.
 

this wasn’t said so bluntly as said here….but  Bethel brothers in recent past have said it as innuendo….sort of read between the lines…and if you were not alert to his talk..it could be missed…

5 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

Let's make this hearsay, abundantly, clear! There is NOT recorded statement anywhere in the Bible Student Era to support this assumption. 

Rutherford, started with the Bible Students as an attorney. He wasn't baptized as a Bible Student until much later. If he had any concerns about the Watchtower, it would have been legal matters like that of the legality of the board of directors. The early stages of Rutherford's stay in the Bethel House, was to protect the legal matters of the Watchtower. That included Russell.

Did he or did he not change the understanding that the ark no longer represented Jesus and baptism to meaning the ark represented the organization? 

18 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I already gave a short answer with my opinion on this question. I found it funny that I just got to a part of Persson's book where he answers the same question. It's unbelievably long. I just found it funny that someone put so much work into answering that question and even draws on some material where I never would have thought to look. In one case I didn't even know that the material existed. 

Persson uses a couple of the same ideas that I used in my answer. But many more, too. I don't think it's at all important to read all of what I'm about to paste below, but I wanted to let you know that it's only about HALF the information he actually uses in the book to answer the same question:

Thank you…I know we dont often take into consideration these all lived  a whole different world and era….what was okay back them…would never be legally possible today nor even an accepted thing in the community,,,

And again some of this is here say or passed down..some written and with proof …all I know even tho I prefer Russell’s demeanour and his will for how things should go forward….we owe Rutherford credit for many things,,,,but I still think he unnecessarily laid the ground work for beating the sheep and making the truth harsh…just not what Russell wanted,

3 hours ago, Pudgy said:

 

 

Walter:

I realize I am not talking about an apostate book, but which do you think has better survived the last 100 years …. The 20 or so books written by Russel and Rutherford, and others, circa 1914, which if taught now would be considered apostasy, or the writings of Edgar Rice Burroughs, circa 1914, who among about 20 or so books, wrote “Tarzan of the Apes”?

( a town North of Los Angeles was renamed Tarzana, California in honor of Edgar Rice Burroughs, and recently one of the most expensive movies ever made “John Carter” from his book “Princess of Mars”).

I await your promised harsh, negative response.

He might not answer so I will ….probably the books like Tarzan of the apes edgar rice may have outsold  Russell and Ruthfords books. …that’s what Jesus said…not many would listen…and the apostasy you talk of was what they thought was wrong coming out of BTG with all that garbage still on their backs…and just being human I guess…personally if I have found Russell the genteel one and much more humble than  Rutherford ,…Rutherford changed quickly things so important and  spiritually  correct about Jesus and the ark and waters of the flood..represent him to it now representing the org...now one comments on that here but the ramifications of such a massive blunder and probably pride pushed so many good brothers and sister away..

I actually think and I could be wrong the beating of the sheep began then…I’m so relieved the modern day GB returned that to the original understanding,,,,,mind you some things Russel thought and wrote needed to be changed…sorry for butting in..hope that was okay and I hope Walter answers you NICLEY!

3 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

 

Converted image to text. 

“And straightway Jesus constrained them—.” This does not mean that they were shoved into the boat; it does mean that they were told that was the best thing to do. Why? I believe that ship represents the same thing as the 27^th chapter of Acts; viz.: The Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, and I know why Jesus “constrained” them to get into it. No one could get into the Kingdom without it. There is no other way to get a crown. I know why he constrained them, if this was a picture. The Watch Tower was God's agency, and when we say the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, ewe could use a shorter word, we could say Pastor Russell. It is one and the same thing. For up to the time that

Pastor Russell died, it was Pastor Russell and you know it was. You know that his will was carried out to the letter in every single iota. He was God’s servant to take charge of the Harvest work. The Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society and Pastor Russell were one and the same thing. Do you think that you could have gotten your crown and gone into the Kingdom without Brother Russell?

Is it any wonder then that “Jesus constrained them to get into the ship?” No one who is a truly consecrated and spirit-begotten child of God could have become so during this harvest age, without Brother Russell or the Watch Tower.

“And when he had sent them away .. he went apart to pray.”"—Went up into the Kingdom where you and I are going. “And when the even was come.... tossed with the waves for the wind was contrary. And in the fourth watch Jesus came unto them, walking on the sea.’-—It might be that each watch represented a year and from 1914 to 1915 might be number one; 1915 to 1916, number two; 1916 to 1917, number three; 1917 to 1918, number four—the time that Jesus came. He came in the fourth watch, the fourth year after the times of the Gentiles ended.

Interesting

4 hours ago, Thinking said:

Well all I can say after reading that is…bethel must have been like a nut house!!..and appears run by nuts!…

I certainly would not want any of my children to go there….adults or not!

As one older elder said here and of whom I would trust my life with..this was said from the platform and said with some despair in his voice.

THERE IS NO ONE IN THIS WORLD YOU CAN TRUST BUT JEHOVAH AND JESUS..NO ONE.

and I stand by his wise words…….sheesh 

oh and thanks for those links…I will look them up for sure…

Joseph Franklin Rutherford (1861-1942): From a large Calvinist family; formerly a small-town lawyer in Missouri; at least once appointed to serve as judge in a case; politically active in Democratic politics. Custodian of Pastor Russell’s last will and testament. Apparently dismissed from Bethel in early 1915, living in Monrovia near Los Angeles, working as a lawyer for a department store in Los Angeles. Forceful in disposition and persuasive. Debated Rev. John H. Troy at First Baptist Church in Glendale, California, April 21-24, 1915.
 

this comes from one of those links….I had read Rutherford had been dismissed from bethel by Russell just before his death….does any one know if this is a true statement….

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He doesn’t like Shultz? Who could not like Shultz?

Shultz recently told me that in his ‘scholar group’ he pointedly told off Rolf and it was apparently heated enough that he thought one or the other of them might be kicked off, and that he didn’t care if it was him, even though Rolf was a one-person minority.

He had previously tweeted of a certain “moron” in his group. I observed that every group was a moron and inquired if it was in connection to a certain dastardly deed where Rolf had played his hand. It was.

I have floated the possibility with another of that group that it might be a fine thing to add me to it, even allowing that I am so not much a scholar as a seedpicker—peck a seed here and poop it out there, just like they said of Paul.

So far no one has taken the bait.

Wow that group sounds terrific…..I like Shultz tho I have not read of him much lately….I still have a book of his here to read….saving it for when and if the internet goes down…..I really hope those scholars are humble enough to let a little pooping seed picker in amongst them…. 

2 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That’s just it. I didn’t keep track of who. Nobody I knew personally. He expressed nothing toward me but good will. It was some form of media communication, the exact form I forget.

Yes if only we could keep track of who said this and that….not to worry….

6 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I don’t see any mention of him there. 

Yeah, I suppose you could get worked up over certain things. But to the point of missing the big picture? When he was baptized “into Christ” did he thereafter become brother to the 95% of Christians who equate Jesus with God?

This statement is telling to me: “I myself was sure that the Branch would not dare to do anything.” Isn’t there such a thing as overestimating your own importance? 

Recently Elon Musk proposed to buy Twitter. “I’m sure the left wouldn’t dare do anything,” he said.

 

 

That’s the key to all of this……step back and look at the big picture…and take the time and relentless prayer to do that……

9 hours ago, Anna said:

It is my bad @Thinkingfor saying jumping and thanks JWI for the correction. Just goes to show how fleeing out of a window or balcony becomes jumping out of it. That is what had stuck in my mind, I did not mean jumping as in jumping from a great height in danger of hurting oneself, but figuratively speaking as in running away....it sounds more dramatic but easily givers a false impression. I had wanted to read the whole account again for accuracy but I was on my phone and all my files were on the computer. The account is in a booklet called Harvest Siftings that was later reprinted in a WT of the same year I believe.

Here it is in PDF file of Harvest Siftings. It will give you a good idea of what transpired during that period, at least from the point of view of Rutherford and others. The bit about the window saga is on page 6.

https://ia600902.us.archive.org/5/items/WatchtowerLibrary/booklets/1917_shf_E.pdf

 

 

All good..🙂

37 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I wish I had kept track of who is was, but I didn’t.

Someone responded, by email, post, comment, I forget which, to say he used to edit Wikipedia for Witness-related things and he had to be on it all the time. He would say things from the Witness point of view and 24 hours later the apostates [his word] would have changed it back to something derogatory. P.S.L. Johnson would probably be too obscure for anyone to bother with.

What I can’t remember is if this was on his own initiative or if it was some freelance theocratic assignment, or a bit of both.

He liked some of the stuff I was doing, but cautioned my with a line from Nietzsche [so he was just your typical brother.   ]: “Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.” I have let that moderate my behavior, even if not so far as calling a truce. 

If only all of Walter’s writings were of this caliber. I would unblock him in an instant.

Tom who counseld you?..I’m not understanding..

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

There are bits and pieces of this in our publications. It's only when you put all the pieces together and hear PSL Johnson's side of the story that some of the apparent discrepencies start to make sense. Persson discusses this episode at great length (of course), considering the 1973 Yearbook, 1975 Yearbook, Proclaimers, Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose (1958), Faith on the March (1957) and the old Watchtower publications from 1916, 1917, and 1918. But he also quotes extensively from contemporary Bible Student sources and recent Bible Student sources such as the one's that @WalterPrescott has quoted from.

In fact, most of the paragraphs that Walter has been posting are taken directly from the writing of Rolando Rodriguez. You can find them here: https://millennialmessengers.wordpress.com/tag/charles-taze-russell/

and much of it repeated on a forum here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thepresenttruthforum/the-fiery-cloudy-pillar-t4686.html?sid=a8e09c4a4332c2aea4e21c85819a15ac

Persson acknowledges contact with Rodriguez for his book and credits him with providing some historical document(s).

I think it's easy to get the idea from what's been said that PSL jumped out a window due to a mental breakdown. This is a conflation of several things that have been said about him in our publications. In fact, PSL apparently never jumped out of a window, but let himself down from the balcony where his feet could reach the fence, and then let himself down from the fence, also without jumping. He did this because he was being trapped in one of the London Bethel rooms with the door blocked, and under guard, likely both to keep him from being able to participate in a planned court hearing the next day, and to resolve a matter about some missing money. And Hemery, the person still managing the London Bethel, and an adversary in the court case, apparently wanted to go through his letters and papers in his briefcase before the court hearing took place. Hemery ended up doing just that.

Nobody was hurt, and Rutherford did not treat PSL as if he really had serious mental problems when he got back, as you might expect if everything said about him was true. Rutherford just didn't want him going back to the London Bethel where he had seen (or likely caused) so many problems.

If you read the 1973 Yearbook, it looks like Hemery's account (the only one given) is an attempt to add a lot more dramatic flavor to the episode than most Watchtower-style writing. It's as if he wanted to write like an amateur Mickey Spillane.

Well all I can say after reading that is…bethel must have been like a nut house!!..and appears run by nuts!…

I certainly would not want any of my children to go there….adults or not!

As one older elder said here and of whom I would trust my life with..this was said from the platform and said with some despair in his voice.

THERE IS NO ONE IN THIS WORLD YOU CAN TRUST BUT JEHOVAH AND JESUS..NO ONE.

and I stand by his wise words…….sheesh 

oh and thanks for those links…I will look them up for sure…

8 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

True. That, apostate's article in the apostate site AD1914 mentions that.

"It was in 1973 that I started to research the history of the Watchtower movement. "

A site you should be familiar with since you are also mentioned there.

https://ad1914.com/personal-experience-rud-persson/

However, his approach to further his confusion began somewhere in 2014.

 

It is better to personally know those people and experienced their lives with them. We all have tens of thousands of taped hours of 1000s of people. Does it matter if someone misunderstands and misinterprets someone else's thoughts?

Being a Bethelite doesn't necessarily mean people are good friends with the anointed. They don't allow such a personal friendship for obvious reasons, just like Rutherford as an attorney. If anything, he would have consulted with G-d on any serious matter bothering him, rather than to speak with a brother in arms just like Russell.

It's not like Jesus and the apostles. Jesus had confidence in them even though they were imperfect. Today, trust and loyalty is an issue. That's why scripture provides proof with Judas.

This is why it's better to have a personal relationship with G-d and not dwell in apostate thoughts!<><

Yes! Brotherhood relationships are a good thing for spiritual unity, but a better relationship with G-d is the best for the soul.

So, let's not get into a discussion over "friendship" and relationship. There are differences. Working relationship, field service relationship, being part of assembly work with anointed relationship, etc.

The read  about Pearson was interesting…he brought up some valid points tho I dont understand how he could join the Red Cross…and not see the implications of that…nor his stumbling over the fractions issue…

This post is very interesting 

5 hours ago, Anna said:

I had read about that in one of the old WT. It was quite crazy reading....Johnson jumping out of a window in London bethel to get away from the brothers who had come to ask him questions. Apparently it was in the local newspaper, reported by a passerby who saw him jumping, lol

I would be asking just what sort of pressure he had been under and for how long …and from whom…..and is this in our historical publications….and if not…why not.

4 hours ago, Pudgy said:

How high from above ground was the window?

This is just plain dumb pudgy…grow up…some things are just not decent to joke about….

6 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

There are several things wrong with this Bible Student account on Wikipedia with P.S.L. Johnson. This is why people should read the fine print, especially when it states, citation needed. However, it’s part of Bible Student's historical record.

A House Divided

After the death of Pastor Russell it was clear that the work he started should be continued. But who would continue it and how? It was obvious that the Society had no intention of carrying out his wishes as set forth in his last will and testament. The four ousted directors, having failed to secure their position on the hoard, along with other prominent Bible Students as individuals, congregations, and publishing houses, decided to do the job.

On August 15, 1918, the four ousted members of the board, along with former pilgrim Paul Samuel Leo Johnson, considered publishing The Bible Standard and Herald of Christ's Kingdom. They would soon have a falling out, and Johnson would go on to found what is today the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement [one of the unincorporated names used by Pastor Russell and the early IBSA] and publish independently of all Bible Students, introducing a new dispensation of views and doctrines . In December, 1918, Johnson published The Present Truth and Herald of Christ's Kingdom ; in 1920 he published The Herald of the Epiphany [later renamed The Bible Standard and Herald of Christ's Epiphany]. Johnson taught that since Pastor Russell was the Parousia Messenger during the Lord's parousia, he must be the Epiphany Messenger during the Lord's epiphany. Johnson was a prolific writer ; he penned the fifteen-volume Epiphany Studies in the Scriptures, two volumes of which were added after his death in 1950.

This is it!

As was the case after the death of Pastor Russell, a number of schisms occurred after the death of Johnson. Raymond Jolly, a former Watch Tower pilgrim, took the reigns. No sooner than he did, disagreements occurred between Jolly and John Hoefle of Mount Dora, Florida, and John Krewson of Fort Myers, Florida, both pilgrims for the Laymen's. Hoefle, who left the Society in 1928 and joined Johnson, was eventually disfellowshipped from the Laymen's in 1956. He began publishing a newsletter under the banner of Epiphany Bible Students Association. John Hoefle died in the 1980s ; his wife, Emily, continues the work. John Krewson was disfellowshipped in 1955 and formed the Laodicean Home Missionary Movement in Philadelphia. He claimed that since Pastor Russell was the "Parousia Messenger" and Johnson the "Epiphany Messenger, "he must be the "Apokalypsis Messenger" since he believed we are now living in the apokalypsis stage of the Lord's presence. He published the three-volume Apokalypsis Studies in the Scriptures, and the monthly The Present Truth of the Apokalypsis . Krewson died in the 1970s; the work continued until 1990 when it stopped.

Thank you for that info…..I don’t doubt at all that the Wikipedia article had errors…and it’s hard to get to the truth of these matters unless one was alive at the time and involved with all of this….and then one has to realise it’s his opinion and the way he saw things at the time…

Certain  books are often written by ex witness…so are dubious as to facts surrounding a event….yet some may be accurate..so it’s hard to discern fact from fiction….

Its terribly sad that he obviously had a break down and if what Anna posted it’s even sadder and more tragic…I did read where Russell did have a lot of opposition to him and it was constant bickering from within that he had to contend with…and this should never be…

walter may I ask how old you are…..you seem to have a lot of first hand experience of certain things,,,,,

At our second last Assembly I observed  a very old brother always sitting on his own…so I went and chatted with him for the remaining two days…he was fascinating to listen to…he was involved in building the first KH in Australia….they had massive opposition…and were in a way a bit of a wild bunch…at that time..but they got the job done and I think they needed to be of that character for the times back then…he was legally blind and deaf and couldn’t really hear the talks..yet he was still there…all on his own…..how can one not respect such faith.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I thought I wouldn't do this, but since you asked, I found the answer interesting.

In 1915 Rutherford felt himself a "defender of the faith" in a very literal sense. He had written a defense against most of the attacks on Russell in 1915. When Russell died, in 1916, it looks like Rutherford was genuinely concerned to do the right thing, scripturally. I hadn't known that P.S.L. Johnson was actually a very good friend of Rutherford's at the time. (Later they had a big falling out.) So when Russell died, Rutherford went to his good friend because he trusted him to know the prophetic types better than anyone, and wanted to know if Russell would have a successor. (They were both in Ohio when Russell died; Johnson lived there, and Rutherford was there on business.)

Johnson told Rutherford that he didn't know, but he would study the "types and anti-types" and get back to him. And they both traveled from Ohio to NY in the next couple of days to get to the funeral. It might seem naive to look at "types" for a kind of "sign" as to what to do next, but it was new to me that Rutherford did not come across like the bombastic, brash person we sometimes think of from later years. Even though we have recently dropped "type/antitype" doctrines, it is interesting that they would use these as a kind of "Urim/Thummin" before they made a decision, and not just find "types and antitypes" to explain or justify or "scripturalize" decisions or events that already happened.

When they felt "lost" they turned the Bible, and Rutherford turned humbly to someone he thought of as smarter than himself on scriptural matters. (PSL Johnson was considered to be the most brilliant of the Bible Students at the time.)

Also, I learned from the book that the board of directors actually tried to run things the way that Russell had outlined in his "last will and testament." Johnson said that this lasted about a week. It wasn't just Rutherford who rejected Russell's will.

Paul Samuel Leo Johnson
Born	Paul Samuel Leo Levitsky October 4, 1873 Titusville, Pennsylvania, US
Died	October 22, 1950(aged 77) Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Occupation	Minister
Years active	1898–1950
Known for	Founder of the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement
Notable work	Epiphany Studies in the Scriptures

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Paul Samuel Leo (formerly Levitsky) Johnson (October 4, 1873 – October 22, 1950) was an American scholar and pastor, the founder of the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement. He authored 17 volumes of religious writings entitled Epiphany Studies in the Scriptures, and published two magazines from about 1918 until his death in 1950. The movement he created continues his work and publishes his writings, operating from Chester Springs, Pennsylvania.

He was born in Titusville, Pennsylvania on October 4, 1873, to Jewishparents who had recently immigrated from Poland. His father was a prominent Hebrew scholar,^{[citation needed]} and eventually became president of the Titusville synagogue. His mother died when he was 12, and his father remarried, both of which caused him distress; he ran away from home several times.

He eventually converted to Christianity and joined the Methodist Church.^{[clarification needed]}

In 1890, he entered the Capital University of Columbus, Ohio, and graduated in 1895 with high honors. Records in that University's Library show him enrolled as Paul Levitsky;^{[citation needed]} he then went to the Theological Seminary of the Evangelical Lutheran Joint Synod of Ohioand graduated in 1898. He pastored a Lutheran church for a short time in Mars, Pennsylvania, and was then transferred back to Columbus, Ohio, at St. Matthew's Lutheran Church, which was later razed to make way for highway infrastructure. He soon built a new church building and was noted (by the Capitol University Synod)^{[citation needed]} to have baptized more people and collected less money than any other pastor in the synod.

In May 1903 he left the Lutheran Church as a consequence of changes in his beliefs, and began fellowship with the Columbus Ecclesia of the Watch Tower Society. The Lutheran Church later claimed they had disfellowshipped him for heresy, but he had already left them of his own free will.^{[citation needed]} A year later, Pastor Charles Taze Russellappointed him as a Pilgrim of the Bible Student movement. He eventually served as Russell's personal secretary. In time, he became Russell's most trusted friend and advisor.^{[citation needed]}

Johnson suffered a nervous breakdown in 1910 a result of withstanding dissidents from within who were challenging the teachings of Pastor C.T. Russell on questions around his understanding of the new covenant and the ransom for all.

Johnson left the Watch Tower Society when Joseph F. Rutherford took over its direction after Russell's death. He founded the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement in 1920, and served on its board of directors from 1920 until his death on October 22, 1950.
 

Rutherford changed Russell’s understanding of the ark from that representing Jesus…to representing the organisation….and just from this fast cursory search it doesnt seem he was much of a friend to Rutherford as he was to Russell.

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

I recon we are far in the time of the end - the pushback will fail. (but I could be wrong). They tried to do this before and it failed.  I seem to think they have all their ducks in a row now.  Some governments are being taken to court with the true facts of the pandemic....... so now they are forced to bring in the world government with more powers (and the powers are frightening because nothing is clearly defined), to get done what they want done. It is most probable that DARPA, NASA and other organizations such as CIA which is  assisting Biden to get it done.

They now have the technology to suppress information and believe me all who do not comply and talk differently and do not comply will see the abomination wreak its destruction.   Religion is the main obstacle in their way at present. 

 

It’s extremely political over here at the moment….incredible…

19 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The freedom to go in that direction of interpretation stems from the silly comparisons and logic of GB members. In style, "Jesus and JHVH have complete confidence in us (GB) so you rank and file JWs should have complete confidence in us too".
GB, on the other hand, claims for himself that he is the only FDS who shares only accurate spiritual food. If you want to ask me as a former JW, whose spiritual food could be the only health-spiritually correct one, then it is probably only from Jesus, not from the self-proclaimed members of the GB. Comparing the same kind of activity, and that is “sharing spiritual food,” from Jesus and / or GB cannot be in the same rank, class.
Because GB promotes the constant need to be trusted just as people trust Jesus, it sends a clear enough message that one should be extremely careful with GB.

How did Rutherford feel? In what role did he think he was?

Just be like a beroean and you should be good to go.

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Barely a word about it here in the States unless you go to a place like GETTR, in which case there is plenty.

I didn’t want to start a new social media account, but certain views are reliably suppressed or ‘fact-checked’ away on the main platforms that I felt driven to it. I follow only two people in my GETTR account, Malone and Dowd, and I have the same profile there as I do here and everywhere else. I’ve only commented once, nothing substantial, and don’t plan (as of yet) to make a habit of it. Last I checked I already had 20 followers.

We have a election tomorrow that’s probably why it’s been up and running mad the last few weeks…that and the monkey pox ….has all started and the COVID restrictions appear to be happening again soon…or threatened….

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I am an idiot, as this same character always says, and anyone else who dares to ask him questions or disagrees:  but it seems, no matter what he masquerades as, or which mask he puts on, in the end we  recognize the nastiness in the aliases.  In Africa we say, a leopard does not change his spots....just like in other countries.  Unless there is humility - this never changes. And as we learnt recently, we also need Jehovah's Spirit to change.  We cannot do anything by ourselves. I think this character, whichever one he assumes, cannot get away from that.

So as a fellow human I encourage him to at least try to please Jehovah even if he has no wish to get along with us.  I will do the same. Our time is running out in this system.  It is not worth the strife. We must rather try to encourage one another.

I heard about an interview with doctor Malone (searching for it today), where he talks about the WHO taking over the rule of the world.  WHO is the only UN organization with a constitution (I checked).  The rights given the WHO in this Amended Agreement, which will be voted on next week,  can put the Western world under the most terrible lockdown for a dark winter when fall comes this year - if not before.  (I am not sure of the implementation date - within 6 months or 2 years). Those who are pulling the strings have a timetable they are working on. 

All countries will be forced to comply and I will not put it beyond them, to use and international army on those countries who do not comply.  This reminds me of the abominable thing of destruction, as the second lockdown of Rome came along........ Very few will escape - only those who know Jehovah will. Talk of calling out false germs in food plants, businesses, areas, officials going from house to house to force "sleever" those who have not complied, identifying those humans who are vermin (carrying the germ).  It is germ warfare to bring health and food 'security".  The soft touch will be seen.

It seems the King of the North and some of his alliances will not sign.... but the UN works according to majority vote (democracy).  ALL countries are forced to accept when those who agree accept the terms. .... BUT it seems China has a large stake in it. The current head of the WHO was appointed due to China wielding to much power in this organization. He is pro-China. Those who are working behind the scenes to put him in power may put another in his place or keep him.  I just watch this development...... 

This Who treaty and its sighing has gotten a lot of air and TV time over here…our two major parties have said they will sign But there is a lot of push back.