Thinking

He also admitted he was wrong and it seemed there was a bigger work that lay ahead that someone else other than he would address .
he never forced anyone to beleive his chronology…they could beleive or not beleive…he didn’t think any less of them…and he still considered them his spiritual brothers.

Honestly, only you know what that is supposed to be referring too.
 
It is true that Russell predicted Armageddon would come in 1914. I quoted his own publication to that end, for your sake. It's not my prediction. It was Russell's.

I want to add a thought regarding all this chronology discussion. 
Though there is plenty of history and documentation to know what was said, by whom, when, and whether it was true, false or subjective, this is material that for the most part is not really hurting anyone. Could it be misleading. Of course. Could is be misused. Yes. But for Christians who are supposed to live in a steady state of expectation is it really consequential whether something happened invisibly in 1914 or not? To me, though I know the subject area fairly well, it's something that I could sit and listen to without being too bothered.
It's other teachings that have had, and continue to have, a more direct and daily consequence to JWs that are far more important to me. We are all sinners, and our organization is no exception. We should all be grown Christians about that! What's important is looking to see where we can improve in our following of the Christ, and follow him closer. Jesus said he is the truth. So truth should be our aim.
Though we unavoidably have differences in personal conscientiously held beliefs, we can be unified in the common cause of always seeking what is true, whatever that is.

I thought long about that comment. My story is no more and no less a story about a boy who was raised to respect truth.
Many generations of my family have been associated with JWs, even before JWs were a thing. My paternal side goes back to Russell.
I was raised to trust the society. So that's what I did. And, that was my mistake. 'Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.' I should have listened to that with more care than I did.
When it came to the society's blood position, when I was baptized I trusted that someone higher up and smarter than me understood the details, and I trusted them.
Way, way later down the road, I found out the society could not and would not answer for important underpinnings of its position on blood. This was the case regarding physiological aspects of blood as a substance, and medical aspects of transfusion medicine. This was also true of biblical statements regarding blood, and particularly as it relates to Noah. Ultimately, what lit me up to take a closer look at this whole thing were things I read in our own publications. I realized the scriptural truth of the whole thing was already spelled out in our literature! So I showed it to the society. Crickets.
Compare these two articles:
Here: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1983290
Here: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101983099
In the second article, pay careful attention to paragraphs 7 and 8. Very close attention, as you look back over the first article linked above. This material was all published in the same year. None of it is the result of "new light" that changed. Remember there are biblical characters who worshiped the only true God who were never under Mosaic Law. Men like Noah, Job, Elihu and Cornelius. These latter had to obey the decree issued to Noah. But not to the different standard issued to Jews under Mosaic Law.
Those internal articles are just the tip. 
People are still dying over something that should be left for each person to decide on their own, without religious coercion of being potentially shunned.
In the end, my story doesn't and shouldn't matter. What matters is truth.
 
 

Well … I will have to admit that I have never thought much about refusing blood for minor children and babies, only that when the issue came up for myself several times in the past it was the right thing for me to do, and because of it I defaulted to a much better quality surgeon that performed (to the best of my knowledge) perfectly, with no blood or blood fractions.
The first heart surgeon I called “Manny the Used Car Surgeon”, as he suggested he could operate on me using blood, but he would tell my family and congregation he didn’t.
He said this was standard for him.
I told him no blood or blood fractions under any circumstances and he looked at me like he didn’t understand English and said “Well, I’m NOT going to operate without blood!” I said “Well, that’s OK … I respect your conscience, but I expect you to respect mine”.  And I went by ambulance to a Heart Center 15 miles away, with six EMTs very busy keeping me alive, to where they WOULD operate without blood or blood fractions.
I woke up “20 years younger”.
Sometimes, yer flips yer coin, and yer takes yer chances. That was in 2010. I could just as well have bled out in 2010.
There is nothing that has ever lived that has not, or will not die …. including infants and children. Thousands die every minute.
Get used to the idea.
Don’t be such a Snowflake.
It’s the ONLY GAME IN TOWN.
Suck it up and keep going as best you can.
Cowards die a thousand deaths, the Valiant die but once.
…. and Jehovah can reverse that!

I was following the society's guidelines, which is just another lame way of saying I was just following orders. I regret it to this day.
The mortality was due to anemia that was completely treatable with donor blood, only the products rendered from whole blood were on the society's list of things that could not be taken. That's why they died.
Thank you for saying that. And, for my part, I don't intend to sit on truth thinking saying out loud what should be said out loud somehow is a bad thing. Wounds inflicted by a friend are faithful.

Many Miles I am genuinely with hand on my heart so sorry for your pain. no words will extinguish the guilt you feel….personally I do not see that you should think you have any..
I dont know how many babies you lost in this way..or why this happened.
in my books the blood issue needs to be respected…and you helped some parents when they needed that.You were a pillar of strength. It’s a massive emotional and spiritual burden to take on and you did it in good faith at the time.
I dont know your story thus why you no longer have the same belief as us anymore concerning it.
I sighed loudly when I read your post and thought…what has he been thru.
I have been on line for..oh well…ever so long …and heard many sad stories and I can honestly say…my story has been the saddest of all I have read…..I too wish I could turn back the clock and avoid what lay ahead…but alas..it has only been the internet that uncovered many things for me……………..and Franz’s book made me stronger….NOT weaker in our faith.
Dont let the King Sauls and Korah’s or the JUDAS LIKE brothers force you out.
I hope you find a little scrap of peace brother. I’m barely hanging on but soon this will all be over with and I don’t want to be known by Jehovah for hurting my brothers and sisters……….I write this with much grief xx
 

Many Miles I am genuinely with hand on my heart so sorry for your pain. no words will extinguish the guilt you feel….personally I do not see that you should think you have any..
I dont know how many babies you lost in this way..or why this happened.
in my books the blood issue needs to be respected…and you helped some parents when they needed that.You were a pillar of strength. It’s a massive emotional and spiritual burden to take on and you did it in good faith at the time.
I dont know your story thus why you no longer have the same belief as us anymore concerning it.
I sighed loudly when I read your post and thought…what has he been thru.
I have been on line for..oh well…ever so long …and heard many sad stories and I can honestly say…my story has been the saddest of all I have read…..I too wish I could turn back the clock and avoid what lay ahead…but alas..it has only been the internet that uncovered many things for me……………..and Franz’s book made me stronger….NOT weaker in our faith.
Dont let the King Sauls and Korah’s or the JUDAS LIKE brothers force you out.
I hope you find a little scrap of peace brother. I’m barely hanging on but soon this will all be over with and I don’t want to be known by Jehovah for hurting my brothers and sisters……….I write this with much grief xx
 

I hear you. Now if only a lot of folks could regain the best years of their lives by not taking the society as seriously as they told them to but weren't doing themselves.
For your information, cryosupernatant is not a small part of blood. Cryosupernatant is more than 50 percent of the blood circulating in your veins this very moment. It's no wonder the society does not list it on its charts and graphs of what we can accept as a personal conscience matter. I mean, what message would that send in terms of a "minor fraction"?
For me, this is not medical word play. As an elder I helped parents make decisions about their babies, and some of them died when they could have been saved. it makes me cry to this day just to think about it. Keyboarding this makes me grieve for those babies, and their families.
I do respect you too, either way. Real unity is folks holding common cause despite differences. Unity is not to be confused with uniformity.
The dead babies won't let my eyes glaze over. They keep me up at night.

Many Miles I am genuinely with hand on my heart so sorry for your pain. no words will extinguish the guilt you feel….personally I do not see that you should think you have any..
I dont know how many babies you lost in this way..or why this happened.
in my books the blood issue needs to be respected…and you helped some parents when they needed that.You were a pillar of strength. It’s a massive emotional and spiritual burden to take on and you did it in good faith at the time.
I dont know your story thus why you no longer have the same belief as us anymore concerning it.
I sighed loudly when I read your post and thought…what has he been thru.
I have been on line for..oh well…ever so long …and heard many sad stories and I can honestly say…my story has been the saddest of all I have read…..I too wish I could turn back the clock and avoid what lay ahead…but alas..it has only been the internet that uncovered many things for me……………..and Franz’s book made me stronger….NOT weaker in our faith.
Dont let the King Sauls and Korah’s or the JUDAS LIKE brothers force you out.
I hope you find a little scrap of peace brother. I’m barely hanging on but soon this will all be over with and I don’t want to be known by Jehovah for hurting my brothers and sisters……….I write this with much grief xx
 

Many Miles I am genuinely with hand on my heart so sorry for your pain. no words will extinguish the guilt you feel….personally I do not see that you should think you have any..
I dont know how many babies you lost in this way..or why this happened.
in my books the blood issue needs to be respected…and you helped some parents when they needed that.You were a pillar of strength. It’s a massive emotional and spiritual burden to take on and you did it in good faith at the time.
I dont know your story thus why you no longer have the same belief as us anymore concerning it.
I sighed loudly when I read your post and thought…what has he been thru.
I have been on line for..oh well…ever so long …and heard many sad stories and I can honestly say…my story has been the saddest of all I have read…..I too wish I could turn back the clock and avoid what lay ahead…but alas..it has only been the internet that uncovered many things for me……………..and Franz’s book made me stronger….NOT weaker in our faith.
Dont let the King Sauls and Korah’s or the JUDAS LIKE brothers force you out.
I hope you find a little scrap of peace brother. I’m barely hanging on but soon this will all be over with and I don’t want to be known by Jehovah for hurting my brothers and sisters……….I write this with much grief xx
 

Sometimes when coming to grips with a calamity, people do not speak with a thesaurus in hand. He meant ‘land of his birth, same as that 89 Wt.

George,
Christ is the end of the Law.
 

On the ward and in medical institutions a blood transfusion is considered as dangerous and a organ donation/placement/ transplant
A accredited medical person must start the delivery and stay by their side taking all their observations every ten minutes for an hour…then every 15 minutes then every half hour …then hourly.
I was not born into our faith, I was an adult and worked in the medical field so it was a subject I had to make sure of. Scripturally I don’t understand why anyone cannot understand there is no difference as to eating the blood and being fed the blood via a tube…..you are being FED blood via a tube….this does not require a scientific explanation..it is common sense…
If everyone understood as to who gave their blood and the incredible amount of parasites and bacteria that are not screened for you wouldn’t ever want one.A Erica s should be especially wary of this, your screening is terrible as are your sources of blood.
Jehovah claims the blood and we need to respect the PRINCIPLE  behind it.
He is not fanatical..he knows we consume cooked blood in even the bled meat..but it is honoring him to pour it out onto the land thus giving it back to him,
It’s such a simple thing to understand …It’s the principle We need to observe……he even forgave those who did not follow his instructions as in King David’s account ….thus persons can and should be forgiven if they are sorry for having a transfusion.. 
 As to fractions..every vaccine and anti venom from snake bite etc has fractions in them.
JWs have the right understanding ..like it or not….as to wether it should be a conscience matter…well I considered that seriously for some time but then that would make fornication  and idol worship a conscience matter…so I had to step back from that reasoning…..
You all do as you want..no skin of my nose…

On the ward and in medical institutions a blood transfusion is considered as dangerous and a organ donation/placement/ transplant
A accredited medical person must start the delivery and stay by their side taking all their observations every ten minutes for an hour…then every 15 minutes then every half hour …then hourly.
I was not born into our faith, I was an adult and worked in the medical field so it was a subject I had to make sure of. Scripturally I don’t understand why anyone cannot understand there is no difference as to eating the blood and being fed the blood via a tube…..you are being FED blood via a tube….this does not require a scientific explanation..it is common sense…
If everyone understood as to who gave their blood and the incredible amount of parasites and bacteria that are not screened for you wouldn’t ever want one.A Erica s should be especially wary of this, your screening is terrible as are your sources of blood.
Jehovah claims the blood and we need to respect the PRINCIPLE  behind it.
He is not fanatical..he knows we consume cooked blood in even the bled meat..but it is honoring him to pour it out onto the land thus giving it back to him,
It’s such a simple thing to understand …It’s the principle We need to observe……he even forgave those who did not follow his instructions as in King David’s account ….thus persons can and should be forgiven if they are sorry for having a transfusion.. 
 As to fractions..every vaccine and anti venom from snake bite etc has fractions in them.
JWs have the right understanding ..like it or not….as to wether it should be a conscience matter…well I considered that seriously for some time but then that would make fornication  and idol worship a conscience matter…so I had to step back from that reasoning…..
You all do as you want..no skin of my nose…

Well the blood issue is a command..not a WT rule…..
the two witness thing was a rule and did cause great damage.It’s now been amended…but too late for so many …
Men did what you are talking about..men who had no right to…these sorts have always existed amongst Gods people….causing him great grief…and a mess he has to clean up.

Which "biblical rule", interpreted through the practice of WTJWorg, can cause more harm to JW members?
The "blood rule" or "two witnesses rule"?
I am not a supporter of blood transfusions for medical reasons. But on the other hand, every medicine or method of treatment has its own dangers.

On the ward and in medical institutions a blood transfusion is considered as dangerous and a organ donation/placement/ transplant
A accredited medical person must start the delivery and stay by their side taking all their observations every ten minutes for an hour…then every 15 minutes then every half hour …then hourly.
I was not born into our faith, I was an adult and worked in the medical field so it was a subject I had to make sure of. Scripturally I don’t understand why anyone cannot understand there is no difference as to eating the blood and being fed the blood via a tube…..you are being FED blood via a tube….this does not require a scientific explanation..it is common sense…
If everyone understood as to who gave their blood and the incredible amount of parasites and bacteria that are not screened for you wouldn’t ever want one.A Erica s should be especially wary of this, your screening is terrible as are your sources of blood.
Jehovah claims the blood and we need to respect the PRINCIPLE  behind it.
He is not fanatical..he knows we consume cooked blood in even the bled meat..but it is honoring him to pour it out onto the land thus giving it back to him,
It’s such a simple thing to understand …It’s the principle We need to observe……he even forgave those who did not follow his instructions as in King David’s account ….thus persons can and should be forgiven if they are sorry for having a transfusion.. 
 As to fractions..every vaccine and anti venom from snake bite etc has fractions in them.
JWs have the right understanding ..like it or not….as to wether it should be a conscience matter…well I considered that seriously for some time but then that would make fornication  and idol worship a conscience matter…so I had to step back from that reasoning…..
You all do as you want..no skin of my nose…

The premise is that fractions of the 4 major components of blood may be regarded as being no blood. So if someone accepts a transfusion of these fractions it is not regarded as a blood transfusion. 
On the other hand  having a transfusion of whole blood or it's 4 major components is considered as breaking God's law and therefore is deemed a disfellowshiping offense, unless the recipient of the transfusion has acted under duress and is repentant. 

The crime of that former JW deserves full condemnation and the most severe punishment. I hope that the court will punish him severely if he is guilty. Lives are irretrievably lost, the wounded may live hard with the consequences, and everyone else will have permanent trauma. It's a tragedy.

“Those who claim that their own nation is superior to all others, even to the point of worshiping the State, have been manipulated by rulers and regimented in order to carry out their policies, whether good or bad. As a result, the Goliath class has arisen to test the loyalty of God’s people, who love the land of their birth but decline to worship the State and its symbols.”  [italics mine]. (Wt 1/1/89, pg 22)

Jehovah said animals have to be bled andthe blood returned to the Earth.
That’s it.
He did not say compress the meat.

No one here, including me, is talking about anyone losing their authority. It is as David said of King Saul, “It is unthinkable, on my part, from Jehovah’s standpoint, that I should do this thing to my lord, the anointed of Jehovah, by thrusting out my hand against him, for he is the anointed of Jehovah.” Accordingly David dispersed his men with these words, and he did not allow them to rise up against Saul."
It is one thing to act to remove someone from authority whom God has place in authority. That is for God to decide. Whoever that might be, God put them there, not us.
It is another thing to give a man (or group of men) unlimited obedience. God has not asked for that. God always expects us to act in good conscience to put Him first ahead of any other loyalty, or authority. This is the sin Aaron was guilty of at Meribah. When Moses said "we" at Meribah he was speaking of himself and Aaron. Aaron knew better, and so did Moses for that matter. It was God providing the miraculous provision of water, not Moses or Aaron. By not stepping up and checking Moses' actions to give the glory rightfully to God, Aaron was disloyal to God. This despite the fact that God had told Moses that he was "God" to Aaron. Aaron put his loyalty to Moses ahead of his loyalty to God. Aaron could have acted to check Moses, and he didn't.
The same person cited above (David) refused to act in a way that would, in effect, remove Saul from his appointed office. But David also refused to give limitless obedience to Saul. Saul, the anointed of Jehovah, said to David, "Come back". Instead, David "proceed to go his way". (See 1 Samuel 26:21-26)
Paul too addressed the notion of limitless obedience in his introduction to Galatia. As presented earlier, this is not a matter of personal interpretation, of giving preference to personal bias.
 

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You make my points even better than I can ….

@Pudgy I wish that was true. Believe me, I really do, it would of made my life so much easier growing up and I would of avoid so much heartache and suffering and could of used that time energy and efforts and investing it in the ministry helping others.
But If that were true, disagreement regarding which doctrines are essential could be due only to illiteracy or malice. But when we engage in on-the-ground dialogue with Christians in other interpretive traditions, we find that the people with whom we disagree on such matters are generally neither unintelligent nor malicious. That implies that resolving the disagreements regarding which doctrines are essential is not as simple as pointing to Bible verses. Otherwise, after the last five centuries of reading and studying Scripture, then even if there was not an initial agreement concerning the meaning of Scripture, there should be at least a convergence of biblical interpretations among all students of Scripture. Instead there has been a continual multiplication of doctrinal disagreements among the various traditions. For these reasons, Scripture alone is not capable of answering the "essentials" question.
We have a five-hundred-year experiment called Protestantism. Protestant history is a history of fragmentation upon fragmentation, dividing not over what was believed to be secondary issues by those separating, but over what was believed to be orthodoxy and heresy. People do not break unity over issues they themselves believe to be secondary, indifferent adiaphora. Someone could claim that in each such case someone was failing to engage in honest exegesis, but it seems to me that such a claim would be ad hoc. There is no good reason to believe that in each case of  fragmentation, one or both sides were being dishonest in their exegesis of Scripture. The evidence is to the contrary. Likewise, someone could claim that in each case of fragmentation one or both sides did not have the spirit. But again, that would be ad hoc. Moreover, honest exegesis in the present is not bringing denominations back together. Given all the exegetical work published in academic journals and books over the last few centuries, which denominations have reconciled because of it? None if any. And again, it would be ad hoc to claim that they are not doing so only because of dishonesty or exegetical ignorance. Do we see all New Testament scholars moving toward one denomination’s theological position, over the past 500 years? No. All this shows that personal interpretation of Scripture is not a reliable way of distinguishing fully and accurately between orthodoxy and heresy.