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Thinking

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  1. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    I dunno. In that case we’d all be disciples of you-know-who, who quotes scriptures by the truckload but they never apply.
  2. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    We agree on one important thing Pudgy - the cancel culture is sooooo stupid.  It comes from a pretense of false righteousness - when people think they have the moral high ground. They exhibit a fake piety and sometimes publically.
    Humans do NOT have the moral high ground - only Jehovah's opinion on any moral issue  is the one that matters. We are all absolutely equal under God - so we will be in unity and love if we agree on Jehovah's standards.  The alternate way, yes they can be considered and even  debated to some extent....... but it will be flawed and does not lead to true righteousness. 
    Jehovah allows us to evaluate options - righteous and unrighteous ones..... and hopes that we choose His moral way when the choice-time comes.
  3. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    Ok, I referred to our recent 3- day convention which you are not taking into consideration. . My language was not perfect, I agree, just as yours does not properly define literal and spiritual events. BUT the point was that the throwing of satan out of heaven was  actually (correction - not the first ) the 2nd step leading to the time of  the end / or the period leading up  to Armageddon. I loved the idea at the convention where they tied SEVERAL  literal events (or steps) to the eventual culmination in Armageddon. 
    The first step was that Jesus was crowned in heaven. This was a literal event that took place in the spiritual realm..... (NOT A SPIRITUAL event.) ...... Jesus thereafter "hurled" Satan down. This was in the spiritual realm but was a literal / real event.....after this there are several signs/ steps and events which culminate in Armageddon.
     
    My objection to your  writing was that you used either the wrong words or do not understand that it was literal events that took place.  They were not merely spiritual events. 
    ARMAGEDDON FOR ME, IS A SINGLE, literal,  WORLD SITUATION which is a decisive battle between all human governments  and the incoming Godly government.. It does not last to the end of the 1000 years.  The reason being:  human rulership will have reached it's full potential  (which will prove once and for all, the corruption and futility  involved with human rule). Humankind will have reached its peak in science and its alienation from Jehovah. 
    Gog of Magog, at the end of the millenium, will be a similar united resistance movement against jehovah  but it is not a  second phase of "Armageddon".  It will be an attempt to take over with human rule..... just like Adam and Eve did.  But the scale of suffering and a great tribulation such as the world had never seen before, will not be associated with it. 
  4. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    This was the first step which gradually leads to Armageddon. There are several steps to Armageddon. The turning against Babylon the Great is also one of the steps. 
  5. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    I do not lack any understanding. Of course - all the armies of the world cannot congregate physically at the valley of Megiddo.... it is geographically too small BUT  it does not portray a cornered position as you say.  It actually portrays a "decisive battle " where Jehovah's side wins the literal battle. 
    Even though the heavenly armies are fighting the battle - the bible portrays the literal corpses on earth which indicates it to be a literal event. Read Revelation 19.... the battle between christ and the coalition of earthly rulers. ..... it invites the birds to eat the corpses of people who are physically dead. ....... just as the time of Noah ..... breathing people will no longer be breathing. 
  6. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to BroRando in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    I know you lack understanding because you have already been mislead and held captive. 
    Jehovah’s Witnesses long ago stated in their publication Studies in the Scriptures, Volume IV: “We are not to expect any gathering of the people literally to the Hill of Megiddo.”
    Historical Megiddo suggests a cornered condition, or situation, with no escape for the enemies of God. Thus, at Armageddon, God will make certain that all corruption and wickedness, no matter where it may be found on this globe, is crushed out of existence.—Revelation 21:8.
  7. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    The abyss is a "condition"  but Armageddon is not a condition.... It is a literal world situation..... a physical, not a spiritual event. Yes it has spiritual as well as physical consequences. 
  8. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    The slave told us that the war in heaven after Jesus was crowned was the first event leading up to Armageddon. It put satan on earth where he could war against the anointed.  This was one of the first of the progressive events leading up to Armageddon. 
     
  9. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    I have given an answer to this inaccurate information - twice. You remove your post, as well as my reply, and then put your post up at a later date without comments. I do NOT agree with your posting but do not want to go through the hassle of putting up  a reply and it being removed - again.
    Watch the convention programme of this year again and you will see the progression of Armageddon.... it does not comprise spiritual events - except the literal war in the "spiritual realm" when Satan was thrown out of heaven. 
    Satan is literally destroyed at the end of 1000 years before Jesus hands back the Kingdom to his Father.
  10. Downvote
    Thinking reacted to BroRando in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    Ahhhh... so you are admitting you are on the outside of our inner rooms.   Looking for a way to sneak in?  It won't work. 
    Hebrews 10:26  For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27  but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition.
    Hebrews 6:4 For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit 5  and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things,* 6  but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.
     
  11. Downvote
    Thinking reacted to BroRando in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    Again no scriptures. You learned from your apostate friends.  You'll be removed from the Congregation soon enough.  Maybe you already have?
    You're not a Jehovah Witness. Trying to fool Holy Spirit will not go well for you.   But Peter said: “An·a·niʹas, why has Satan emboldened you to lie to the holy spirit and secretly hold back some of the price of the field? (Acts 5:3)
    You have certainly been embolden by Satan, but your pride blinds you and now the drifting away begins because you can't see the unseen things.
    2 Corinthians 4:18
    while we keep our eyes, not on the things seen, but on the things unseen. For the things seen are temporary, but the things unseen are everlasting.
  12. Downvote
    Thinking reacted to BroRando in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    Now, this imposter uses No Scripture to support her wrong opinion. and claims she is humble.  Yet, when the Apostle Paul pointed out that Peter stood condemned.. Peter did not condemn Paul but called him a beloved brother. Peter did not make a false accusation and claim Paul personally slandered him. Just like Satan, you refuse to be corrected and now fighting against Holy Spirit. I will not stop you. Go ahead if your pride is that important to you.
    Galatian 2:11  However, when Ceʹphas came to Antioch, I resisted him face-to-face, because he was clearly in the wrong.* 12  For before certain men from James arrived, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcised class.t 13  The rest of the Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense, so that even Barʹna·bas was led along with them in their pretense. 14  But when I saw that they were not walking in step with the truth of the good news, I said to Ceʹphas before them all: “If you, though you are a Jew, live as the nations do and not as Jews do, how can you compel people of the nations to live according to Jewish practice?”
    2 Peter 3:15  Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16  speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant* and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
     
  13. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    There is no time in heaven but Jehovah puts everything in a timeline for us humans here on earth.... so I rephrase what I said above so that you can understand it:  Jehovah allowed Moses to write down what happened in heaven about Job,  so we know that this incident happened in the lifetime of Moses, or just before, in the area of Oz. 
    Although events happen in the spiritual realm they are given to us in a certain earthly time frame - so we can understand it was real events in the spiritual realm.  How do we know that Jesus was crowned in the spiritual realm and it was a literal event which really took place? - it is timed with other prophecies which came true on earth..
    How do we know when "symbolic"  Babylon the Great will be destroyed? Because we know that the "image of the beast" (which is a symbol which has been laterally identified by JWs) will be prompted by Jehovah to do this.   There are literal events happening -even if it is depicted in a symbolic way.  Literal events are written down for us to understand even they happen in the spiritual realm.
    Personal attacks are a sign of weakness on your part - You are NOT a judge for Jehovah... Jehovah is the ultimate judge.
    I think you should read the definitions of spiritual, literal, symbolic, before you write another article again.  the meaning of spiritual means it is how it affects a person themself. So when you use this word in a sloppy way it could mean that the person only experienced the event within themself and it was not a real event outside the person.  I tried to indicate to you there is a difference in the meanings but you are too stubborn to even look up  if you could have been wrong.   I could be wrong too....... but I am humble enough to acknowledge it if I make a mistake....... are you?
  14. Downvote
    Thinking reacted to BroRando in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    I have no need to slander you.  But your weeping and gnashing of teeth give spiritual evidence of what is happening to up. You can cry and scream all you want, it won't change a single thing. 
    "Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be." (Matthew 13:40-42)
    Not according to scripture. "However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8)
  15. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    I do not believe any of the above - therefore, you are trying to slander me.  Do you realize that?  This is unchristian behavior.  This is all slander without proof!
    I did not agree with your word choices about 1914 - that is all.  I have have been on this forum much longer than you and have partaken in discussions about 1914 and the year 607....... and I can assure you I am one of the few who fully accepts 1914 as the year Jesus was crowned in heaven.  So go and slander someone else.
  16. Downvote
    Thinking reacted to BroRando in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    She's not a sister but an impostor.   
    She doesn't even know that Jesus was Crowned in 1914 to become King of God's Kingdom. She also rejected that the Last Days are coming to their End.  She refused to stand up to the apostates when JEHOVAH was being slandered.
  17. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    The EVENT (the crowning of Christ) is literal but it takes place in the spiritual realm - in the realm where angels have spiritual bodies.  Jesus was crowned in heaven but has a spiritual body. Jehovah has a spiritual body and spoke to Satan in heaven about Job.  These were real (literal)  events!  Not symbolic events - they were literal events happening in earthly time - in the heavenly realm where Jehovah and the angels have spiritual bodies!
    The earthly time of Job was just before Moses came to Oz.... so we can place these literal events in a earthly time frame.  (There is no physical time in heaven).
    You see - I am sensitive about the literal and symbolic use of words regarding this.  I come from a country which has a religion which believes that the death of Christ was not a literal event but was symbolic.  They believe that Christs rulership, appointment as king etc. are all symbolic events and not literal events in the spiritual realm.
    If Jehovah does the trouble to give us a scene from his heavenly realm and shows how Jesus comes up to the ancient of days to receive the crown it means that this "real or literal"  event really happened and is described in terms which humans can  understand.
     
    I do not set myself up as a teacher or a debater here - we have the slave to teach JWs and JWs should be able to discern right from wrong.  But false prophets can come on here and use tons of scriptures and teach "almost" the truth but not the truth.
    We all know that Jesus is not coming back with a physical body - Armageddon will be fought by Jesus and his angels who come from the heavenly realm and have spiritual bodies.  This does not make Armageddon a spiritual event because we will se literal dead bodies around. 
     
  18. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to BroRando in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    Since the Last Days of 1914 are in reference to Satan's System of things... then the Birth Pains represent a New System of things being ushered in.  Those on the outside will not be able to escape the destruction.  
    The period of time leading up to the end of the system of things, or state of affairs, dominated by Satan. It runs concurrently with Christ’s presence. Under the direction of Jesus, angels will “separate the wicked from among the righteous” and destroy them. (Mt 13:40-42, 49) Jesus’ disciples were interested in the timing of that “conclusion.” (Mt 24:3) Before his return to heaven, he promised his followers that he would be with them until that time.—Mt 28:20.
    Armageddon is spiritual and commences when Jesus and angels will “separate the wicked from among the righteous” and destroy them. (Mt 13:40-42, 49)
    It took Jesus a period of 40 years to remove unfaithful Israel from the living and lay them in the dust and during this time, they were well fed and their clothes did not even wear out. Yet, they did not know that they were being destroyed. "Neither be murmurers, as some of them murmured, only to perish by the destroyer." (1 Cor 10:10)
    Now after the 1,000 years, the scriptures state, "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.  And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them." (Rev 20:7-9)
    Now that's LITERAL. The same ones that think Armageddon is Literal and flesh will fall off the bone and the wicked will simply melt away in a literal fire will be claiming Jehovah's Day is delaying. But such ones are in danger of being destroyed also. For them, they have "No Faith".
    ‘But my righteous one will live by reason of faith,’ and, ‘if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.’” (Hebrews 10:36-38) If Armageddon is literal from the start, then faith would not be needed to be exercised.  
  19. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    More than enough scriptures were used at the convention.  I am not a teacher or a debater on this forum. I give logical opinions - that is it.
    You can take up some of the thoughts which are in line with the scriptures you already know - or discard them.  I expect people on here to know most of the basic scriptures.
    I have in the past taken the time to look up the scriptures and people just ignore them and go on presenting their own ideas. 
  20. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to BroRando in Armageddon comes in two phases...   
    "As early as in the year 1876, in an article that he submitted for publishing in The Bible Examiner, the president had pointed forward to 1914 as the date for “the times of the Gentiles” to end, with serious consequences for the whole world of mankind."
    Back in 1876, only a few people were listening. A good number left his Bible study group.  However, has time was getting closer then more started to gain understanding.  In the Bible Students Monthly, on January, 1914, Brother Russell wrote: "'The Earth Abideth Forever' Christ will not return to Earth as a Man - Present Year Believed to Mark Great Change of Dispensation, but World May not discern Immediate Difference."
    "Our Lord, in describing His Second Presence, clearly indicated that it would be unnoticed by the world until the cataclysm of trouble should come. Thus He likened the earlier days of His presence to that period before the Flood, when the world, unconscious of the impending catastrophe, continued to build, eat and drink as usual, and knew not. So, says the Master, it will be in the end of this Age. Eating, drinking, building, planting and marrying will proceed as usual; and the world will not know that they are in the PRESENCE of the Son of Man."
    And we seen evidence of this even in 2022 on this very board.  They reject and deny that the Last Days have begun. When we preach and let people know we are now at the end of this period, people scoff and ridicule us, majority of those being religious hypocrites!  Denying the very Name of JEHOVAH or sat idly by while apostates were slandering. 
    Notice he didn't write Second Coming, but rather 'Second Presence'? Brother Russell was speaking of Christ's PAROUSIA--PRESENCE. He continues, "The Bible nowhere tells that Jesus took the human nature to keep it forever, and to return with it to Heaven, where it would be completely out of order and out of place. The Bible teaches, on the contrary, that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:50); and that Jesus was made flesh merely 'that He, by the grace of God, should taste death for every man' (Heb 2:9) and that after doing this work He would "ascend up where He was before." (John 6:62) The great Day of Trouble, noted throughout the Scriptures as the Time of Trouble such as never was since there was a nation, will come upon them suddenly."

  21. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to C-D67 in Bro Rando is a rogue jw, which jw's here believe in him?   
    What does anyone's handicap have to do with teaching the word of Jehovah? 
  22. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to C-D67 in Bro Rando is a rogue jw, which jw's here believe in him?   
    This is why Brother Letts perception is not false, when he stated "babies are enemies of God" the off right has now chosen to twist around on YouTube.-
  23. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in Bro Rando is a rogue jw, which jw's here believe in him?   
    I put it first on my own blog. It’s also in TTvtA.
    It didn’t carry the day with that Reddit bunch, but then they ARE a hostile crowd. And even I have to admit those mannerisms do take getting used to, regardless of their origin. I think we have to drop back to Pudgy’s comment:
    Coming from cynical Pudgy, this is extraordinary praise, the equivalent of ‘Stellar’ from anyone else. 
    It may be just an example of God ‘laughing at the wisdom of this systems’s wise ones,’ proof that his anointed are, as in the first century, seldom of ‘noble birth,’ nor ‘wise,’ but decidedly ‘uneducated and ordinary.’
    I’ll take substance over style any day. Turn on the TV and you can see endless people whose ‘style’ is impeccable. Among them are some of the stupidest people whom God ever let roam the earth.
  24. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to JW Insider in Bro Rando is a rogue jw, which jw's here believe in him?   
    A few months ago, I looked up "Stephen Lett" together with "Bells Palsy" in Google to see if I could find anything on this. I found out that TTH had presented an article about Stephen Lett called Let us Appreciate Stephen Lett (https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/96dllz/let_us_appreciate_stephen_lett/)
    The article was from 4 years ago, and there was a later edit from TTH which said:
    Edit: It turns out that Brother Lett has grappled with Bell's palsy, which paralizes facial muscles on the affected side, and as part of rehab, he got into the habit of exagerated facial movements, a habit that stuck, or is perhaps even still advisable. The elder telling me this said, when I pressed him, that he had it "on good authority." Knowing him, I rate it as probably a 90% chance. So you never know. You just don't.
     
    Even before locating that, I had already clicked on another much more recent comment in reddit that said:
     
    According to what I read he had Bells Palsy and his exaggerated facial expressions were acquired over time in response to trying to overcome the nerve damage.
     
    I don't know if that more recent comment had been picked up through TTH's comments, or if it was from an independent source.
  25. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to xero in Bro Rando is a rogue jw, which jw's here believe in him?   
    @WitnessI'll make it simple. In order for anyone to be convinced that you're capable of learning anything new about the bible, you have to state what you don't know and then go from there until you have some idea. Then you submit the same to others and see if they see the same thing or if you aren't reading things into scripture which aren't really there.
    Take for example the trumpet blasts in the book of revelation. I know the current arguments from the society about these, but these don't work for me. I say to myself "A convention!?". Now I know the book of acts highlighted the anointing w/holy spirit on an arguably tiny number in a what the world would consider an inconsequential location, however this event IS part of the Bible, and for these and other facts I believe it was in fulfillment of scripture.
    These trumpet blasts of revelation having their fulfillment in some conventions just doesn't have the same gravitas as pentecost, so I take the interpretations as speculation, not definitive fact.
    So I say openly, that I'm not quite sure about any of that and I'm hopeful that with more study whatever I can learn about this will become clear over time.
    You don't waste your time puffing yourself up as if you're needed to rescue people from some (in your view) false ideas.
    Work on yourself.
    I don't need to read much of what you spew, because it's the same old crap. You appear (I was going to say ARE) to be so incredibly full of yourself. Who else do we know who doesn't know how to be brief? Anyone who can't be brief needs to learn how.
    TLDR is what people do with people who can't do that. Now Pudgy is great because he doesn't take himself seriously, but he does take ideas seriously and intersperses the same with humor - a great teaching tool. I think Jehovah is much more likely to listen to his prayers than a bloviating pharisee (whose chief complaint is that they aren't the HEAD pharisee)
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