Thinking

I have always felt guilty and scared when I read that scripture…in nearly 45 years that feeling has never changed………same feelings happen when I open the door to someone just about to knock the door down with their harsh knocking and find the police standing there…….the first thing they say is ..don’t worry you have havent done  anything wrong ( there had been break ins at our neighbours)
hope you pick another scripture that puts a smile on my face or makes me laugh 😆 

I have always felt guilty and scared when I read that scripture…in nearly 45 years that feeling has never changed………same feelings happen when I open the door to someone just about to knock the door down with their harsh knocking and find the police standing there…….the first thing they say is ..don’t worry you have havent done  anything wrong ( there had been break ins at our neighbours)
hope you pick another scripture that puts a smile on my face or makes me laugh 😆 

I have always felt guilty and scared when I read that scripture…in nearly 45 years that feeling has never changed………same feelings happen when I open the door to someone just about to knock the door down with their harsh knocking and find the police standing there…….the first thing they say is ..don’t worry you have havent done  anything wrong ( there had been break ins at our neighbours)
hope you pick another scripture that puts a smile on my face or makes me laugh 😆 

Yes. I wish he would grow up. There is nothing wrong with upvotes. They show that other people think you’re hot stuff.

Sorry, I upvoted again!!

very good  that should all be our determination. very well

Well, mostly to strengthen my faith and advance in the truth despite the ever changing "new light".

The teaching didn't change, though. Although it is understood that we can't determine exact timing of tribulation, we can "learn from the fig tree" in order to understand where we are in the timeline. Yes, we are close. But that's just the beginning.

Hello, 
I think that scripture doesn't support the notion that Christendom is attacked in the beginning of tribulation. 
Please note that in Rev. 17:16 there is no timing given as to the beginning of the GT.
If Christendom (aka Babylon the great) falls in the beginning of tribulation, how is it then that harlot sits on the back of the revived beast that comes out of the abyss? According to Revelation 17 the seven-headed beast goes off into destruction and then comes back out of the abyss as the 8th king which is when the harlot is depicted as riding the revived beast and immediately before God puts it into the mind of the beast to devour her. Revelation in the 11th, 13th and 17th  chapters talk about a beast that goes into a deathlike state (aka receives a sword stroke) only to later be revived. 
Rather than the destruction of organized religion marking the commencement of the great tribulation, the tribulation apparently brings about the collapse of the present Anglo-American dominated democratic system. That is in keeping with Daniel’s prophecy, which foretells that a king of fierce countenance will bring mighty ones to ruin, as well as the sons of the kingdom. Afterwards, with the democratic nations brought low, the United Nations will be empowered to the extent of becoming a global empire (aka the 8th king).

Thanks for the answer. Some good points, but what you wrote is mostly confusing. According to what you wrote am I to conclude that the great tribulation is also symbolic? And that the holy ones won't be literally killed by the beast? 
I am not really convinced by your answer, even though you use many scriptures to support your opinion. You see, the MOL is described with the same adverb as Judas — the son of destruction, which means it's apostle-like figure which operates within the temple until it is revealed. It's a mystery which according to Paul was already operating in his time. As for the disgusting thing, that is a foreign entity that imposes blasphemy forcefully. The holy ones will be recognized by it because they won't bend their knee to it. And they will be conquered. MOL is revealed as operating in the temple, whereas disgusting thing is installed. 

@Witness 
I think you are confusing the MOL with the disgusting thing. How is it that the constant feature is removed by "royal priesthood"? Disgusting thing is supposed to forcefully take away the freedom and enforce the worship of itself instead. The false prophet that compels the nations to worship the beast. Kind of like what happened when Nebuchadnezzar compelled people to worship his image. 

UN at present has no significance. But it will emerge as a counterfeit kingdom only when kings of the earth give it their power to rule. Maybe it won't be called the UN, but present UN has a framework in place which will allow for it to take control of the world in the future. It is the fierce looking king from Daniel 8:23,24. 

It is true that I didn’t feel the love. But I may have egged him on. I have been known to do that. Thinking and Aruana did not, however. His attacks on them were provoked only by their standing up to him.

No, he was not Billy The Kid. BTK was "Wally McNasty" as Pudgy called him. He is also George88, Cesar Chavez, Allen Smith, Alphonse, BTK59 [BillyTheKid59], Moise Racette, Dmitar, Boyle, etc, etc. I used to keep track, but I stopped at around 50 names. 
AlanF never used but that one handle here and evidently in several other forums around the Internet. And he would identify himself with his full name (if you asked) and not just hide behind the handle like some of us. LOL. I never followed him much into those topics about the Flood, the Ice Ages, Evolution, etc., because I'm pretty incompetent about those things and don't care to learn too much just yet about them. Maybe next year.
I don't know exactly what you mean by "his good posts." But I looked back through some chronology topics and found dozens of well written polite posts that merely shared information, and all the while he was getting called names by others here. There was some light-hearted bantering between him and scholarJW  as they had obviously had a long history of previous discussions elsewhere. But I see a lot of obnoxious posts to him before he responded. 
But I will start out with one of his absolute worst, because I thought that TTH's response was about the funniest and most memorable retort:
But that was after he had developed a kind of persona where he had developed a HISTORY with Cesar, and Arauna and TTH, and we already expected that these were just follow-ups from prior topics. But I go to his old topics in 2017, 2018 and 2019 and he was actually quite helpful in providing sources and resources for information. But a topic couldn't go for 10 pages before he started fighting back.
I do see one thing in his favor, in my opinion. Those attacking him were often just offering empty opposition and ignoring his points, or offering "tired" old standby arguments from Young Earth Creationists which he considered totally debunked scientifically. Even though he wasn't attacked with foul language, he was attacked with constant escalating levels of antagonism, and ad hominem stuff. But in the middle of his rather-too-direct responses to those, whenever someone asked a reasonable question, he was right back to giving emotionless straightforward facts to think about. These are the same facts we should be aware of as counter-arguments to, let's say, the Flood, should it ever come up. In the middle of all this bantering, notice how he goes right back to being an encyclopedic resource, even though we don't like the info. Here:
https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/88407-creation-evolution-creative-days-age-of-the-earth-humanoid-fossils-great-flood/?do=findComment&comment=153844
It's too long to display the contents here, but his follow-up comment is also thought-provoking and I'll quote it in full:
That's not faith-building, of course. And it's not stuff I personally want to think about. But it's thought-provoking information and the kind of thing that's useful in a discussion forum, especially if others know how to respond and defend against it (especially the informative post above it with only the link).
 

<---    Acts 9                Acts 11 --->
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
7 And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
8 And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

…. ah yes ….
…… the “Closed Club”  ….

A greater den of scum and villainy has never been than in the closed club. I do my best to keep them in line, because someone has to do it—I owe it to the old hen—but let me tell you, it’s exhausting.

I've known young people who committed suicide after being shunned/disfellowshipped. I was one of those who tried to kill himself after being disassociated several years ago. I've talked with dozens of young disfellowshipped ones. In the past 30 years I've talked with parents of children who committed suicide due to being disfellowshipped. I wanted to share this....
How are they going to address the parents of young people that committed suicide after being disfellowshipped or marked? IMO the parent should sue the governing body for emotional manipulation and emotional distress for forcing them to cut off their own children, even grown children. That includes children who died from their parents refusing blood transfusions, knowing they could be disfellowshipped or shunned or marked for doing so. Or the thousands of x'jws who fell into chemical addictions, dying due to chemical addictions!!!! To deal with the loss of their entire social structure!!!!!!!? And the worse...the tens of thousands of disfellowshipped/disassociated/marked ones who left God all together, like I once did?   Being allowed to grow a beard, or women being allowed to wear pants during services, so fucking what!!!! That's nice, I've never come across someone killing themselves because they couldn't grow a beard or wear pants. The Governing Body needs to shell out a major apology for their previous stance on disfellowshipping, and I mean a huge fucking apology!!!! The blood of others is not soley on the governing bodies hands, but on the hands of the rank and file who did everything the governing body told them to do. Which was to totally isolate those young people from their social network, even their parents.   Sorry jw's, PIMI, it's too late for these changes, you are already blood guilty, you deserve to go to hell, with your governing body.

…. could be worse …. could be Hillary Clinton in a pants suit ….

It’s not about you, Georgie ……

The submerged iceberg, of which it is tempting to focus on the visible tip, is the Norwegian judge’s words that he finds it ‘reasonable that boyfriends and girlfriends are going to have sex with one another.’ Make no mistake that if he didn’t find it ‘reasonable,’ as previous generations have not, he would be more amenable to the Witnesses’ discipline. He might still find it severe, but he would not likely find it illegal.
But he has acquiesced to a new norm like that of my extended family, in which a 14-year-old daughter dates a 16-year-old who has his drivers’ license. As long as they are home by 9 PM, not a problem. ‘He’s a good kid,’ they say of him. And, as kids go, he probably is.  But, forget about Bible principles.
The challenge, which can be expected to increase, is to navigate Jehovah’s organization amidst a world that disdains the values it stand for, that considers Bible morality backwards and even harmful, and that begins to concoct laws against it.
Even Matthew raises no objection to this. Maybe he doesn’t know of the judge’s words. Maybe he knows but blows them off as nothing, joining the church world insistent upon retaining the label ‘Christian’ but not so insistent upon the conduct that identifies a person as one, being more outraged over discipline than the immoral conduct that calls for it.
Suicide is bad, so it is right if the Christian organization takes it seriously, modifying procedures, perhaps partly for that reason. It’s all good and welcome. Be proactive as you can. Many things done can be done differently. Many things can be tweaked to take into account changing times. It appears this is happening.
But it should also be kept in mind that suicide is all the rage among the young today. They have inherited an impossible world from older generations (who also do not apologize for it) and many of them break under the strain.
When my wife and I visited Ithaca, we passed a bridge on which obscenities were painted about Cornell, presumably due to the suicides that take place, some by jumping off that bridge. Ought Cornell be held liable for putting so much pressure upon young people? Or ought their parents be held liable, for pressuring the importance of ‘success’ at all costs? Anyone apologize for handing them such a world?
Or what of this young person crying because she works at a good job and cannot afford rent. Just like that, it goes up by $900 in a month and she can no longer afford to eat.. Anyone apologize to her over that?
https://www.dailydot.com/news/woman-has-to-cut-back-on-eating/
Or adults create AI, and just like that, it is used against children, deep-faking them naked and in sexual acts. No apologies there, either. Schools themselves are nightmares to attend, at least in the U.S, where bullying without consequence runs rampant, and yet students are sentenced into such unsafe places—it’s not as though they can opt out. Any apologies? Not only is there not, but there is a steady stream of people with degrees telling of how they are about to turn the situation around, just as they were 40 years ago.
It is a pretty lengthy list of how today’s world has absolutely failed its young people, and many of them take their lives over it.
As ‘repressive’ as some Witness families might be, as much as some might view them as ‘hemming people in,’ they are also sources of support and stability. You do not want to cut yourself off from your family. But the young today are encouraged to do just that, cut themselves off from where there is a safety net to leap to where there is not. All a young person must do is abide by family rules, while they are living with family, and they are fine. Previous generations, for the most part, have recognized and supported this basic fact of human life. The present one does not, and is being encouraged to not recognize and recognize  it by people who will not be there to break  a young person’s fall should they take one.
As much as I hear that Jehovah’s Witnesses are ‘insular,’ they can’t hold a candle to the insularity of those who oppose them. To hear the latter carry on, you would think the present world is a paradise and all would know it were it not for ‘scare’ tactics of the Witnesses. 
 

One thing I have learned … Judges and Government officials msy be wrong, but THEY have the bayonets.
Some things just have to be endured.

This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 

It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world.
However, what drives action within a political framework? Power!
What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this.
However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe.
Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com
Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism.
What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't?
Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted.
A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation.
You are so clueless it’s embarrassing to read your posts!
It is NOT considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to execute people for crimes. It is considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to deny communications and citizenship to anyone, no matter how heinous they break the rules.  
Humans need the connections to other humans, same as food, water and air. Take Vitamin C out of a human’s diet and he WILL DIE , slowly and very painfully, his body disintegrating and falling apart. 
The same with disfellowshipping for matters that are not true, clear and present, REAL, emergencies.
That’s why Jesus gave instructions in Matthew 18 EXACTLY how to do it.
Do JWs do it that way?
… not even close.
The problem is … historically, organized religions and their minions LOVE a witch hunt.