Thinking

Hello, sorry folks for not getting things here sooner, between computer and internet acting up and an Aunt passing away-- things just got messed up  a bit, .
I didn't get the additional info done for these two weeks.  But back on schedule for  next time.. TB 
Watchtower January 31, 2022–February 6, 2022-Paragraph 13,.pdf Watchtower January 31, 2022–February 6, 2022.doc Watchtower January 31, 2022–February 6, 2022.pdf CBS January 31–February 6, 2022.doc CBS January 31–February 6, 2022.pdf Meeting Workbook week of January 31–February 6, 2022.doc Meeting Workbook week of January 31–February 6, 2022.pdf Watchtower January 31, 2022–February 6, 2022-Paragraph 13,.doc Meeting Workbook week of February 7-13, 2022.doc Meeting Workbook week of February 7-13, 2022.pdf Watchtower February 7-13, 2022.doc Watchtower February 7-13, 2022.pdf CBS February 7-13, 2022.doc CBS February 7-13, 2022.pdf

Jesus was never like that ……and the Christian life back then had its problems as well…..the Corinthians cong was not all rosy……no cong even now is all rosy……we were warned  wolfs would enter in amongst us after Paul was gone…he was already dealing with superfine apostles at this time…with in the Christian congs of the time..
Facts Ditimar….deal with Facts….we are all works in progress ….
 

I don’t frequent their groups but have listened to their talks…and FB pages…...and in my line of work have been able to speak with a few personally …..asking them questions etc…I’m also grateful for the Chicago Bible students who provide Russell’s writings at no profit….all the ones I’ve met are nice people….mind you I have met one I considered very childish and foolish….and who refuses to use Jehovahs name…and really hate us..and was a ex JW…
They all were a bit disappointing as  as to being very loose as to celebrating pagan holidays etc…and in a bit of a time warp….but lovely people generally .
 

Jesus was never like that ……and the Christian life back then had its problems as well…..the Corinthians cong was not all rosy……no cong even now is all rosy……we were warned  wolfs would enter in amongst us after Paul was gone…he was already dealing with superfine apostles at this time…with in the Christian congs of the time..
Facts Ditimar….deal with Facts….we are all works in progress ….
 

Should Peter have known to the depth he would fall In Renouncing Jesus…did he understand the extent of his persecution…no…he still failed in sinking into the stormy seas…but Jesus spoke kindly to him even tho lacking faith.
The problem here Ditmar..is you actually cause more harm than good to the truth…you come out so self righteous ..and no matter how some one tries to be kindly to you…no matter how many try to make allowances for your over zealousness…you won’t listen.
Thus you are not acting like Jesus in any form….but roaring out of piousness…..you would condemn the very men Jesus loved when they fled in terror and abandoned him….in your actions and words what you are showing is the very lack of the understanding of Christ….the very essence of his being and reason for being ….Jesus would not speak as you do…nor would he judge as you do.
Im not saying some of your thoughts are wrong…for they are not all wrong…but the spirit in which  you speak is wrong…..you are not helping anyone come into the truth or even want to…..you are doing more harm than good.
you yourself are acting as a rouge element of Jehovahs people even being on this forum….yet that’s okay with you…..because you feel you have a right to….as we all do here….you honestly feel you are being used to defend this institution….thus in your mind defending Jehovah and Jesus…..thus you condemn yourself with a double standard …so why do you condemn us your fellow brothers and sisters.
I know talking and trying to reason with you is actually whistling in the wind..and it’s no good even being kindly to you…but I hope that those that read you…or this realize we are not all like you…you are very proud Ditmar and you lash out at one’s who truly are your brothers and sisters….
Anyway these days are hard and we need to keep putting up with each other….and I know you mean well 🤗

Jesus was never like that ……and the Christian life back then had its problems as well…..the Corinthians cong was not all rosy……no cong even now is all rosy……we were warned  wolfs would enter in amongst us after Paul was gone…he was already dealing with superfine apostles at this time…with in the Christian congs of the time..
Facts Ditimar….deal with Facts….we are all works in progress ….
 

Integrity — blameless character (vv. 2 a, 4 a, 4 b).
Integrity — blameless character (vv. 2 a, 4 a, 4 b). What we are largely determines what we do and say, so the first emphasis is on godly character. (See Isa 33:14-16; 58:1-12; Jer 7:1-7; Ezek 18:5-9; Hos 6:6; Mic 6:6-8; Matt 5:1-16.) "Blameless" doesn't mean "sinless," for nobody on earth is sin-less. Blameless has to do with soundness of character, integrity; complete loyalty to God. Noah was blameless (Gen 6:9), and the Lord admonished Abraham to be blameless (Gen 17:1), that is, devoted wholly to the Lord. (See 18:13,23-25; 101:2,6; Deut 18:9-13; Luke 16:13.) People with integrity will honor others who have integrity and who fear the Lord (15:4; 119:63). They will not be deceived by the flatterers (12:2-3) or enticed by the sinful (1:1). When godly people endorse the words and deeds of the ungodly, there is confusion in the church. "Like a muddied fountain and a polluted spring is a righteous man... who compromises his integrity before the wicked" (Prov 25:26, AMP).

I appreciate the kind words. I have taken on Witness before but no longer do so because the task never ends. Upon being confronted, she just repackages the same stuff and runs it through again. 
As for her most recent CSA contribution, I think the words of Holly Folk (herself a victim of child abuse, and not a JW) give the overall picture:
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2021/02/holly-folk-speaks-to-child-sexual-abuse-among-jehovahs-witnesses.html

No the Catholic Church hierarchy..copied to a point the Christian’s hierarchy or order directed by Holy Spirit… .Just the same as The Babylon religions copied the Jewish heirachy and rituals directed by Holy Spirit  to an uncanny degree …..Satan mimicking  Jehovahs rituals to a tea…..
as a people have we been too authoritarian…to dogmatic at times…yes…
Just like Moses going mad at the people when he had no right…
Too right we made administrative changes after Rutherford…we needed too…..
 
….

You well know that Jehovah did not send the horsemen.  That is like saying Jehovah started the World Wars and other recent disturbances.  Forgot the scriptures that say that Satan knows his time is short? Read Revelation chapter 12.  Jehovah is prophesying about the horsemen, only.  At Armageddon he will send the angels led by Jesus Christ who will use all the forces stored up for the day of destruction. Job 38:22 speaks of the storehouses of snow and hail stored for the day of battle.  Do some research.
 

Amen.

At least accrediting Jehovah is better than saying it evolved from something.
 

There is a Pakistani JW, Kathgar, I had seen in the debating space who often speak about JWs in Israel, he was one of the few at the time who debate the Trinity whereas the audience were a mix of British people and Middle Eastern people. This whereas Judaism, Muslim, Christians often clash with each other, which explains why some of us CSEs are trigger happy with debates.
From what he stated there is a lot of slander going on in the Middle Eastern countries concerning Christians, for JWs are often put in the same basket as Syranic Christians. Slander in some degree often makes certain people targets, in Kathgar's case, he was nearly a target of the terror group ISIS at one point, and we know how terror groups are concerning Christians, mainly the ones that do not take up arms.

Truthers are not of the paradigm, we don't dwell on conspiracy, however, evidence of you dwelling on such does exist on this forum. Many, many examples, too many to count outside of the usual mixing of verses and butchering of Strong's. If you had to be compared to someone, you are similar to Lisa Haven, a Mainstream Christian who has wild conspiracies in mind. 
You can't even be consistent with your own truth...
That being said, bold claim, but sadly, you do not have evidence of such, as what is stated in regards to someone such as myself who is against the paradigm and agendas, ironically, if we Truthers were conspiracy theorists, what I said about Russia would not be a true real world case today - funny how that works.
The problem is not about knowing everything, it is about the facts. Illusions are dishonorable and last time you were corrected on culture, for the culture has very damning things to say about illusions, even in wording.
That being said, you do not understand your own folly. You even ignored it after claiming the subject matter is serious.
Your video sells a different story to the facts, and the facts of which can be seen in the Kings County Reports.
The reports of which you linked are no illusion, for the facts are there. Likewise with the information on Zalkin and Kaplan concerning child abuse.
The issue with you is you expect us to 100% believe what is seen in the video vs the reports of which you didn't read, which now calls you into question for your San Diego remarks in regards to Zalkin.
For, if you did take this seriously, the reports holding the facts concerning abuse among JWs should be your focus. Stop relying on videos and start reading, if I can take this seriously, as is the an abuse survivor whom I will quote below, you can do the same.
 
 
 

Should Peter have known to the depth he would fall In Renouncing Jesus…did he understand the extent of his persecution…no…he still failed in sinking into the stormy seas…but Jesus spoke kindly to him even tho lacking faith.
The problem here Ditmar..is you actually cause more harm than good to the truth…you come out so self righteous ..and no matter how some one tries to be kindly to you…no matter how many try to make allowances for your over zealousness…you won’t listen.
Thus you are not acting like Jesus in any form….but roaring out of piousness…..you would condemn the very men Jesus loved when they fled in terror and abandoned him….in your actions and words what you are showing is the very lack of the understanding of Christ….the very essence of his being and reason for being ….Jesus would not speak as you do…nor would he judge as you do.
Im not saying some of your thoughts are wrong…for they are not all wrong…but the spirit in which  you speak is wrong…..you are not helping anyone come into the truth or even want to…..you are doing more harm than good.
you yourself are acting as a rouge element of Jehovahs people even being on this forum….yet that’s okay with you…..because you feel you have a right to….as we all do here….you honestly feel you are being used to defend this institution….thus in your mind defending Jehovah and Jesus…..thus you condemn yourself with a double standard …so why do you condemn us your fellow brothers and sisters.
I know talking and trying to reason with you is actually whistling in the wind..and it’s no good even being kindly to you…but I hope that those that read you…or this realize we are not all like you…you are very proud Ditmar and you lash out at one’s who truly are your brothers and sisters….
Anyway these days are hard and we need to keep putting up with each other….and I know you mean well 🤗

This was a real case, in a kingdom hall. He was going to start the circuit overseer's talk. A little boy approached to say something to him and he, complacent, did as he attended, smiled and soon he got on the platform for his talk.
The overseer was surprised to see the faces of those seated in the front rows. They made gestures and signs with their faces, surreptitiously. In the end, he discovered the problem: he was wearing his trouser fly open.
The little one, as "he was at the right height" realized the problem, which no one else did. But, as I said before, the overseer ignored him. Too bad, it would have saved the embarrassment. The lesson: you learn from everyone, even the most seemingly insignificant.
I say all of the above because if even a little one can teach us, if we are humble enough, I have learned a lot from some of those who write in this forum. I am not ashamed to admit that I have learned a lot from @JW Insider. There are things that I don't quite understand because they are out of my reach, like all this enormous amount of technical information about chronology. And, by the way, in some things I disagree with him, although they are very few, really.
But I don't only value jwi posts. I have learned things too, and I have enjoyed reading those of many others, it would be unfair to quote them because it would leave me some.
Regarding Allen Smith aka CC and many more aliases. More than once you feel anger because some of us support the arguments of those who do not agree with you. The only answer I can give to people with your personality is this:
 
(Proverbs 26:4) . . .Do not answer @César Chávez according to his foolishness, So that you do not put yourself on his level.
 

 
 

I agree with all you said.... except this last sentence.... It seems you have put yourself as a judge... be careful.... we are not here to judge others.  We cannot say someone did something deliberately unless we can prove it is premeditated..... and even them ----- people think about bad things before they do them without realizing they are really bad. 
David premeditated the murder ....... and yet jehovah frogave him... so be careful how you judge!

But you see it was not about experience - it is about obedience.  Satan had eons of experience and turned against god.  The issue is not experience.  One can have little experience - but if you trust God - you have more experience than any other creature!

I would say regardless of how the dispute turns out, much value from the archives is already realized by today’s NYT coverage. How are these for quotes?
“Some 1,600 Jehovah’s Witnesses died as a result of Nazi persecution. About 4,200 were sent to concentration camps, where they were identified by a purple triangular badge attached to their camp uniforms.
“They were the only persecuted people who had the choice of ending imprisonment: If they signed a declaration renouncing their faith, they were liberated. Very few agreed to sign, Slupina said.”
Is it an example of what Geoff Jackson said—Jehovah not only doing things but doing them in style? I mean, it’s kind of a good witness, isn’t it? And here that nasty Matthew 4 5784 was trying to put such a slanderous spin on it—a spin that no one other than he (along with that phony prophetess of FB, the preeminent one of all christsdisciples, exercising her “important role from God”)  would ever be able to dream up.

I'm not sure how you could be confused as it does indeed point out clearly who wrote the article "Catherine Hickley". It is, the NYTIMES, not some unknown publication. Also I think your adjective "despicable" isn't consonant w/the matter, nor does the case deal w/"profit[ting] off of a genocide".
This is dealing w/the archive of a specific family who suffered at the hands of the Nazis and which family legally passed the archive on to the society and an individual who had no right to profit off the sales of the archive. (the only one making money here).
Think again. You can dislike the organization all you like, but do it for legitimate and rational reasons. Tell the truth when you criticize otherwise all your other criticisms are devalued. (Were you high or drunk when you stumbled on this?)

They called you this when trying to remember your name, and they cited Pearl. You should be blaming Pearl's followers because they are not mentally sound when they debated me.
Of course you are only one, noe one mention any other person but you, hence why it was raised in the first place, only one person cites Pearl to the T constantly, with the same mannerisms - that is you, in which you confirmed.
Look at the orignal remark, in an attemt to remember you name they made a small err, however, what they showed as a source was 100% from you.
Likewise, people call me Baptise, they know how I operate, they're not mentioning anyone else be it they say SM or Baptise, granted this is me.
Because the facts in this regard matters.
According to the debate and the use of Pearl sources, this woman is you. If they haven't used Pearl as a source when pretending to be JWs, they the connection to you would not have been obvious. Although they say Christ discple or Discple of Christ, they are specifcally speaking of one person who is the owner of that reddit profile, of you you yourself confirmed it to be you.
Prior to posting here, I even mention that this reddit user is someone on this forum, granted the reddit user, you, professs Pearl, even using the same topics here and on reddit, it was obvious it is you, therefore, I made the conclusion that the reddit user, and you, are one in the same. Nowhere else have I mention mutiple person, just a single soul, a woman who proclaims another as if it was a Godsend.
What transpired was they lure people in, and used sources that are not associated with Jehovah's Witnesses, in a sense, more like Anti-JW message, all the while, using Pearl as a source derived from your reddit account. You use many verses and citations from Pearl, and that was being profess by these two.
I was not interested at all prior to debating them, however, the moment that mentioned Pearl, showed me their source, I was able to make the connection, you post exactly the same here, i.e. Spiritual House. We talked about this a while back, among the posts you made on reddit, I was able to recognize exactly whatw e debated about, namely on the focus of The Book of Zechiaraich and Living Stones, and from there more and more Pearl related topics was used from your reddit account in an attempt to sway the debate.
Possibly Former Jehovah's Witnesses and or those who are associated with anything pretaining to avoidJW movement. Granted they used Reddit heavily, your account in the debate, it can be noted they may have been users on reddit. Granted they focus on your sources related to Pearl, they act as though they are followers of Pearl; which is not uncommon because I pointed this out to you a while back in relation to Rick Fearon Listeners.
However, what they did is not good. Why pretend to be a JW, lure people in with a Publication, once they close in, begin to speak another message. What killed it for them was when they transitioned to omitted Bible verses, something of which the reddit exjw community spoke about a lot, in addition, used a KJV bible app. This led to them losing the debate of which they roped me into to, as for the politics and Same-Sex marriage, they were refuted on that, and afterwards, Conservatives went after them on their poltics. As a sidenote, in relation to polotics, you, several times before, attempted to equate JWs to the Democratic party and or have some polotical connection which was proven false. The only reason Conversatives went after them was because Conversatives are not much of a fan to Democrats.
Never said you did, the proof is connecting you to the reddit user, of which you confirmed for me without hesitation.
That is the proof.
I don't care about your real name, the focus was the reddit profile.
That being said, thank you for showing me you are more on the complicance side instead of freedom. A Christain is not compliant, even in the playgriound of Big Tech. You should know of what they'll do to followers of the Christ and his God once all the chosen are gathered.
Then again, not too many people are as vigilant.
But you do realize how much a problem that causes? There was already an incident in 2019 in which even JWs were as confused as a deer in headlights because of something quite grim that was done that became a story, and became a tool used in the exjw reddit community, in a sense, framing someone.
You or Pearl has never called into the community to build up and remedy said community, for nearly the majority of what is said by you and her is Watchtower based only.
Even here, never, ever have you addressed a grounded disccusion, everything you said revovles around the Watchtower, even in our last bibical only debate, you roped them in.
It is stuff like this, that results in such ones roaming about. The last time I had somewhat of a similar situation was dealing with The Hebrew Black Isrealites, however, even they themsevles who are misgudied would never do such a luring type tactic and switch up once the person is now speaking with them. These followers of Pearl, essentally were entrapping people.
Unfortunaley, in the debating world, such people do not go away, I gave examples, Hyde Park is a big one, mainly in regards to those who are associated with indivduals like David Wood and Jay Smith. I recall there was a situation in which their followers debated JWs on what a Mediator is, and since the JWs were fed up, they were confronted by others, who, like the JWs, know exactly what a Mediator is.
Once a fire of this magnatude has been started, which is something thatw ent on for years, probably before you were even alive, it can't be stopped, therefore, people come to refute and correct.
They were no sincere. Bad intent, even willfully is a means always show negativity. I do not think you ever had expirence of that nature compared to me. This is why I am very expressive on the notation of and application of 1 John 4:1; even in confrontations, which is not my first rodeo.
They were not using false information of Pearl, they were using 100% of what she as professed by means of your reddit account. They clicked on your account, and focused on all of your main topics/posts in relation to what they tried to convey to me. It is as though of what they pulled from Pearl was a Mainstream-sque.
The sad reality is, before I was in that area, it is unknown of how many people they fooled with Pearl's information, how many people they fooled into thinking that they were JWs.
Possibly the end goal for them was to make people in that area assume JWs to be crazy and radical, or as the Mainstream refers to them, Zealots. At the same time, they put a bad light on you as is Pearl also.
This falls in line with what I stated in the past of one's Ailenation from God our Father because of people like this - a form of weaponization, if not child abuse, if not violence, if not war, it is this, in order to damage and confuse.
Perhaps next time use your reddit to profess a grounded message outside of your exgesis.
Witness, this has been going on even before you were born. The only difference now is that people are aware of primitive Christainity, even our Muslim counterparts. People are aware of Bible tampering, people are aware that God, be it you call him Yehovah, Jehovah or Yahweh is not the same person as Yeshua/Jesus/Ieosus, as is having a better understanding once they learn more about the core teachings. Because of that, a lot of us, such as myself, speak to refute the major mainstream idea by professing the Core Teachings, even at a grounded and based level, then you have the MSC who want to assume their position in history when all of us know what transpired in the 4th century, and what was orginately believed prior.
That being said, the Dam has been broken, on your part, and Pearl's. If one can spot people like this, then it is something that cannot be remedied 100%. Once the Jehovah's Witnesses are out of the equation, stuff like this tends to happen faster, this mirrors what I said about the events of Russia and Ukraine concerning Christainity, and now years later to present day, it was as predicted.
Anyways, the botom line is that you are the owner of that reddit account, they follow Pearl and the subreddit and they used said information to lure people for the bait and switch. No one, but these Pearl followers, did this stunt.
 
I read the report by the way, some of what is read does not match up with the Youtube video you posted. I asked you if you read it yourself, therefore, should you bring up these YouTubers again concerning the case that is taking place in my county... You will be refuted.

Already been in several battles, but this is essentially among the most random during the Endemic era of COVID-19 and The Unrest of divided souls.
Been out for sometime because of going to various locations such as Michigan, Kentucky and recently Washington specifically I only wanted to go to Michigan to visit a grieving family. While traveling I confronted some people, among them 3 JWs. 1 of the 3 people were legitimate JWs, this one was in the Kentucky area whereas some people volunteered to help clean up the area/recover things along with the locals; had a friend down there who was gathering people to help out. However, the other 2 were not JWs, but pretended to be JWs while luring people in with one of your publications as shown here:

 
 
When speaking with one of them, it was clear that this person was no JW at all because after briefly speaking the person started to speak on EXJW points and showing me sources from reddit as is with speaking on said sources (ironically the sources to some of their points led back to Pearl Doxsey; lined with DoC), and this brief interaction transitioned into a debate on Scripture, as is politics and Same-Sex Marriage.
What made them look bad was a misuse and misapplication of Scripture, even attempting to use the KJV in app form when the mention of omitted verses popped up from the NWT translation of the Bible. Trying to utilize politic points and Same-Sex narratives as a weapon against not just JWs, but Christians who are neither neutral when it comes to the political theater that is out there, as is the view we, and the majority hold on Same-Sex marriage.
But as far as any Bible related discussion, they kept going back to the Watchtower when the focus was on whatever Bible related topic they brought up, essentially a JW this/that or they said this and or that type of talk. The second alleged JW with him clearly saw his friend was not doing too well when speaking to me and he chimed in, making statements about the publication in question for he spoke like a crazed person about it even though he had no idea what was in the very publication he carried - essentially the debate was me against the both of them at this point, I myself haven't been in an in person debate in a long while, so I just went with it to correct them.
Although this encountered lasted for about 10-15 mins, there were others around who heard some things, specifically in regards to politics and Same-Sex marriage. After I was done, these people confronted these two people who look defeated, it was obvious these people who confronted them were Conservative, so some of which these 2 individuals were saying did not sit well with these people as I could hear them speak on political issues. One thing to note is that this was some days prior to the event in Washington on the 23rd, so some people were traveling at the time, on their way there from various parts of the states.
It was clear these 2 people were not mentally sound and from what I see, them using said publications, it seems as though they were luring people in pretending to be JWs, and from there, they speak on anything negative using their sources. Mainly on their stance for Gay marriage, possibly to egg people on to attack for them. The way I look at it was what some alleged in regards to a cemetery incident a while back involving one of your publications, and or that of a fake police officer/security guard.
That being said, I thought I should mention it here because it was something unexpected and random. Although I take issue with Mainstream Christians to a very high degree, they're smart enough to not do something so absurd, a stunt such as this...

What a joke…listen…I’ve butted heads with JWI a few times but ..I have never seen him express anger…in Fact i would say as much as I’ve disagreed with him at times..his fruitages  are finer than mine or yours …
 
 
 
 

Indeed. Cyrus was fearful of the Judean God, just like Babylon. However, how do you believe this to be a point of order, since I’m referring to Christianity that didn't start until the time of Jesus. Are you suggesting, there was a religious sect called Christianity before Christ? Can you give me an example of Christianity before Christ? Judaism is excluded.
Subjected freedom of religion is true. The Russian Government doesn't seem to have a problem with the Orthodox Christian sect, yet it holds the Watchtower as an extreme Christian group. Since you are into the Watchtower History, you should be aware of the challenges your former institution took up. 
In the United States, numerous cases involving Jehovah's Witnesses are now landmark decisions of First Amendment law. In all, Jehovah's Witnesses brought 23 separate First Amendment actions before the U.S. Supreme Court between 1938 and 1946.
First Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
https://www.historynet.com/what-we-owe-jehovahs-witnesses.htm
There are many position the Watchtower has taken in order to have their merits heard in courts of law. 
In part, look at this comment.
"I would argue that here precisely lie the core problems of religious liberty in the 20th and 21st centuries. The forms of sacralization are different, but the human individual is one, and inhabits different spheres at the same time. One may be a member of a particular “religion of God,” yet being subject to the “religion of the nation” as a citizen, and partaking of the “religion of the person” as a general cultural climate. This situation may be lived as not conflictual. One example is Alcide De Gasperi (1881–1954), who was Prime Minister of Italy between 1945 and 1953. He was such a pious Catholic that he is now being considered for beatification. At the same time, he certainly regarded himself as an Italian patriot, and was an enthusiastic apologist of the then newly proclaimed Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Romano 2008)."