Thinking

I don't much care about the others. Mormon theology is wrong and the rest are into the trinity.

Look at the picture in the March 2017 Watchtower (Study Edition). I've attached it below, but the whole article is also here:
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2017/give-honor-to-whom-it-is-due/
Since 1995, all WT references to the "24 elders" have also included an explanation that they represent the full anticipated number of the 144,000 in their heavenly, resurrected to heaven. (Sometimes this is stated as if it means, only the current number of already resurrected members of the 144,000 at any given time, even during the time when a significant portion of them are still on earth.) Although the exact meaning is a bit hard to pin down, sometimes, the WT has even drawn chronological conclusions about the 24 elders as of 1935, for example. But we can get to that later, if anyone is interested. 
For the first time in 20 years, the Watchtower has mentioned the "24 elders" and never specifically said in the article that they represent the 144,000. The article not only mentions them in the text, but shows a picture of them, asks the reader to look at the picture, and also merely combines them with other heavenly creatures (myriads of angels and the 4 living creatures) in a second, less direct reference. It's an unusual amount of attention drawn to the "24 elders" without any reference to their meaning.
This might not mean anything, of course, but this latest WT reference would nearly mark a decade since the Watchtower specifically mentioned the "24 elders" at all! (And the last two mentions about a decade ago were really brought up only because of a convoluted bit of circular reasoning to try to show that the first resurrection most probably started before 1935 because one of these elders in Revelation asked John who the "great crowd" was. This supposedly showed that one of these spirit creatures must have been communicating from beyond the veil with Brother Rutherford, or persons close to him, before 1935.)
*** w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 11 “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way! ***
What, then, can we deduce from the fact that one of the 24 elders identifies the great crowd to John? It seems that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today. Why is that important? Because the correct identity of the great crowd was revealed to God’s anointed servants on earth in 1935. If one of the 24 elders was used to convey that important truth, he would have had to be resurrected to heaven by 1935 at the latest. That would indicate that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935.
The idea that Rutherford was communicating with the spirit of someone who had died might feel a bit uncomfortable, and perhaps that is even a factor in a potential change -- if there is a potential change, that is. 
One could also argue from these most recent WT references that there is no change, because the wording is precise enough to allow for the current doctrine to remain. However, it might also have been true in the past that certain doctrines changed because someone asked (or tested out) whether there was a level of concern, or if there had been a lot of questions about it -- especially the questions that come in to the Service Department from Circuit Overseers and elders with reference to disfellowshipping. We have seen, for example, changes to doctrines about blood products in vaccines, organ transplants, [un]acceptable blood fractions, private sexual practices within the confines of marriage, working for a company associated with false religion or a branch of the military, certain types of voting, etc. Many doctrines related to such subjects were stated one way, then dropped from discussion for several years and then sometimes restated in an ambiguous way. The idea might have been to test whether the ambiguous statements resulted in any questions or concerns. If there were no concerns, then the doctrine could be dealt with later. Not all of these were about serious disfellowshipping matters.
I saw this happen with a brother I worked for at Bethel who wanted to "float a trial balloon" about a doctrine he had once championed claiming that the heart was the actual, physical seat of emotion and desire. He said he could try out a talk in Europe where he had served as a Branch Overseer and see if it raised questions over there, and if the concerns seemed important enough to deal with, or if they could be safely ignored. He had an idea about the meaning of "this generation" that he tested out this way on European audiences, too. Brother F.W.Franz was also known for being able to give talks about several subjects in a very ambiguous manner which evidently helped test out their usefulness for a doctrinal article. He did this in talks on "1975," "the Governing Body," and even one in 1978 on the figurative meaning of "fat" and the "liver" when mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures.
So that's the background to this particular conjecture -- and that's all it is, conjecture.
The wording that refers to the "24 elders" strikes me as an interesting, if ambiguous, replacement of the usual description and explanation. Note how the term "exalted creatures" replaces the term "24 elders" below. (I have also attached the scripture reference that wasn't spelled out in the article, although you can click on the link.)
Exalted creatures in the heavenly realm lift their voices in praise to Jehovah, “the One who lives forever and ever.” They declare: “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because  of your will they came into existence and were created.”—Rev. 4:9-11.
(Revelation 4:9-11) 9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanksgiving to the One seated on the throne, the One who lives forever and ever, 10 the 24 elders fall down before the One seated on the throne and worship the One who lives forever and ever, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying: 11 “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”
Do you not feel moved to join with myriads of heavenly creatures in proclaiming: “The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”—Rev. 5:12.
(Revelation 5:11, 12) 11 And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, 12 and they were saying with a loud voice: “The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”
Think of congregation elders, circuit overseers, Branch Committee members, and the members of the Governing Body. Our brothers and sisters in the first century had high regard for those appointed to take the lead, and we feel similarly today. We do not idolize well-known representatives of the Christian congregation or react in their presence as if angels were standing nearby.
---- end of quotes ---
That highlighted phrase about angels might seem very out of place because nothing explains it in the context. It might refer to a paragraph that was edited out of this issue. I'm guessing that it was probably a reference to a point that made it into the previous February 2017 Study edition. The connection is vague because this point is not expanded upon very much in either issue.
 And Jehovah told him: “Lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you. Look! My angel will go ahead of you.” (Ex. 32:34) The Bible does not report that the Israelites saw a materialized angel perform those duties. However, the way Moses instructed and guided the people made it clear that he had superhuman help. . . .  Nevertheless, despite the imperfections of these men, the Israelites were expected to follow their lead. Jehovah was supporting those men with his superhuman agents. Yes, Jehovah was leading his people.
However, the rejection of the idea that something like "angels" are standing nearby could also come from an idea that has been stated out loud by people who see the GB in person. It's a common phrase heard by visiting tours at Bethel who appreciate the value of the work and say something like "you can just tell that the angels are standing nearby." Even a couple of the JW Broadcasting broadcasts have come very close to presenting phrases like this when a building project, or Bible-printing project is spoken of and the speaker adds, in effect, 'you could just see the hand of Jehovah in all this.' [2015 JWB] Or, 'you just know the angels were looking on in delight.' [2014 convention experience].
It was also a joke about my grandmother's driving. She once made a left turn onto the railroad tracks, and her survival was attributed to the fact that "an angel must be riding alongside her." Another elder answered, "No angel would dare ride along with her, Brother ..."
But there is a slight chance, too, that the omission is purposeful, and is tied to the removal of angelic beings from the picture. The idea that any of the 24 elders were in direct contact with Rutherford, or persons around him in the past, might now be seen as a dangerous teaching. This could be a first step toward removing that picture from our teachings.
 

First we have to keep in mind that the Revelation is given in Signs and Visions. In this way the conversation between John and the Elder was happened within the Vision. It would be a weak conclusion to think, we can transpose this conversation ,one to one, to events in our present days. Most closely matches this to a prophetic picture, wich helps us to detect the two groups. At least the knowledge about the big crowd must not given by a literally conversation rather than by the Holy Spirit at the right time.

I am not too comfortable with this idea either, only because of the simple fact that Jehovah gave the Bible to everyone, and he gives holy spirit to anyone asking, so that they can understand the Bible.  From experience I have known spiritually mature brothers and sisters express some ideas which were not at the time "officially" taught, but did become so later on. It seems like they had divine insight? Or was it just that they were very good Bible students and reasoned on things logically? Even ones who had not known what Jehovah's Witnesses taught,  like @Gone Away were able to work some things out that were contrary to popular belief in Christendom. I believe it is the capacity of every good Bible student, whether of the anointed or not, to have insight. The important thing is though to have the wisdom to wait if we have reasoned out something which is not an "official" teaching. Are we going to get upset about the 1% or more that we think is not right, and forget about the bigger percentage that has benefited our lives as one of Jehovah's Witnesses? I have know people who had previously been involved in all kinds of religions who upon reading one of JW publications have declared "this is the Truth". One studious lady (a staunch Catholic) who became a very good friend of mine, even flung the "Truth Book" across the room because she could see that what she read made perfect sense and that what she had previously believed was wrong, and that upset her so much. My own mother in-law, who had always been God fearing, after reading the "Truth Book" , said all those unanswered questions she had were answered, and all the pieces of the puzzle came together. There are many, many more examples I could cite, and I am sure you have read the many experiences of people who have benefited from learning from a small group of anointed Christians who collected their perception of what the Bible "really" teaches into publications, which helped them understand the Bible's message more clearly. I think when we start doubting  the "exclusive group" it is good to focus on the positive things we have gained from our "associating" with them.

I don't believe publications, I read them and make up my own mind. The publications themselves along with the publishers don't claim to be prophets. It's opposers who get hung up on punctuation because they don't get that it's all wheat and weeds until the harvest. Opposers think it should all be wheat. But then again they reject the bible too.
This is the same style of argument you see in politics. Like say you might say that you're a democrat, and I say "So you're the party of slavery!" and then you say "I don't believe that!" and I say "Yeah, well all the slave holders were democrats. Republicans were the ones who opposed slavery."
Thus someone quotes C. T. Russell or some other older pub.
 
 
 

Blocking you forever.

How so? You are the one who is placing yourself in the judgment seat? You are the one who presumes to know the infallible will of Jehovah.
And if you don't, you ought to stuff a sock in it.

This is why I always look at the historical context.  The truth was very different then. The entire human society was also much more strict and more authoritarian than the present day. This is why it is not good to look back... look only at the present time.  My husband and I often discuss our parents.... so strict..... post world war 2 discipline.  Women also more submissive to husbands.  The  mindset was different then.
Our books also went into the historical aspects much more. A good example is Babylon the great has Fallen... also the blue truth book - not as simplified as today. 
The problem now is that there is no discipline in the world and almost any form of morality is acceptable...

Arauna ..I think Sis we need to let this person have the last say...or we become like him....don’t waste your precious spiritual energy...I’m not sure what is going on here but it’s not healthy...it’s time to back away for the sake..not of those participating...but for sake of those who may be reading this and dismayed at how low we all have become...me included ...
none of this thread is dignified...or mature...
Jesus didn’t even look at Herod as he was so disgusted with him...
you know the old saying...If there is no wood,...there is no fire...I admire your tenacity...
 
 

Arauna ..I think Sis we need to let this person have the last say...or we become like him....don’t waste your precious spiritual energy...I’m not sure what is going on here but it’s not healthy...it’s time to back away for the sake..not of those participating...but for sake of those who may be reading this and dismayed at how low we all have become...me included ...
none of this thread is dignified...or mature...
Jesus didn’t even look at Herod as he was so disgusted with him...
you know the old saying...If there is no wood,...there is no fire...I admire your tenacity...
 
 

This is the case with many unsavory personalities. They have to be given the last word, because they WILL NOT yield. If you insist upon it yourself you will write until well past Armageddon (and possibly be distracted from it on that account)
The trick is, not to insist upon the last word, for you will not get it, but to make your own words cogent, reasonable, and persuasive. Write a little and rest from your labors while they flail away at points already addressed.
On the other hand, to the extent this really is an “apostate” site, as he contends—certainly there are some of those ne’er-do-wells here, who cares? Strictly speaking, no one ought to be hobnobbing with these characters anyhow. The fact that some are, self included (and among the ‘worst offenders’), indicates that they all have unique reasons, purposes, intentions, circumstances, etc. The more long-winded threads are, the more likely that anyone with any value on their time will stay away from it.
A great way to deal with “apostasy” is to encase it in so much nonsense, like T-cells encasing a virus, that it all but sinks from sight.

This is a common problem - family members beg elders to not tell the police.  This is why I say that many here do not think of how the families feel or think. They do not think of the family dynamics, except about the reporting. 
I have mentioned on this forum before how a young boy who touched his cousin out of curiosity was sent to a reformatory and branded a sex offender for the rest of his life......  BUT the people here do not really want to look at the nuances and the pain this brings a family or the victim....... the smell a pound of flesh and use this subject to keep on beating and beating JWs. they are not reasonable.

This passage is not often examined, but it highlight's how Jehovah allows his heavenly administration latitude in making suggestions and applying the same. This "Divine Council" has a lot of discussion in various circles. My thoughts in this regard are that the 144k are to be additions/replacements for the defective ones. This, though then elevates previously lower forms of life, like humans, albeit w/everlasting life, w/having "life in themselves", something the others in the spirit realm have been thought not to possess, needing some manner of sustenance to keep alive. These replacements, the 144k will apparently be elevated to essentially immortal status. It is the ultimate answer...Jehovah says "I know my work w/humans is good, and further these selected ones can be trusted with even what other faithful in the spirit realm don't possess."...
Anyway...my thoughts on that....

Aaaah...librarian....I so love Phil Hayworth  talks..some have been taken down and it was such a great loss..I have listened to this a few times and now will listen again....he has another fantastic one called.....ARE YOU  TIED TO JEHOVAH ...or something like that....it’s brilliant....I came into the truth on these types of talks.....much appreciated !!!!!! 

Well I was loath to chime in on this subject I admit ...and it probably would have been wiser to not say a thing..and yes I broke  my own rule over this.
Because it declines into a emotional school yard cat fight... but you also do not fully understand either Billy....NONE..of us here do...not really.
But I know first hand of certain issues here in Australia..I watched all of the ARC..talked with victims and elders...know  of certain    cases...intimately ..so can speak from experience...
The way they were handled by elders and the Branch directions of the time..and how victims were handled...and the frustrations of elders and the victims.
I listen to witnesses who have got things a bit wrong...sometimes a lot wrong...and a lot right .
I listen to Ex JWs who have got some things right and some things wrong...
It is not as simple or straightforward forward as so many believe....it is not black and white
I have distorted nothing...I am just more balanced over this subject .than you
Agreeing with anEx Jw on certain matters  does not make one their Alia..it’s just acknowledging a fact that may be correct in a certain issue at a certain time.
as far as chiming in..we have discussed this before me with you actually...and that didn’t end very well either....you told me you were not my brother...so as I said...I am loath to enter such a discussion..it goes round and round in circles with insults thrown at each other....and everyone becomes like rabid dogs biting at each other and thinking it is okay because it is a forum...and thinking Jehovah is going to accept such behaviour and excuse us of it.....and I include myself in this as well.
I wish you well CC..I’m not to sure who you are...as I’m not to sure who anyone is here ...
As far as a culture thing...Jehovah’s laws are laws...I once had a elder say to me over a very serious matter.....” well it’s not how Australians are”....
no I thought...but it is how Jehovah is......
I won’t reply on this matter again....but I stand by my words and will not back off from them even tho I will remain silent...
 
Witnesses are allowed to disagree with each other..we are not robots....it does not make us apostates...or idiots...just people with differing views ...which may change at any given time..and also may not change.
I don’t always agree with Toms view..nor he with mine...but what a great conversation we would have in a car group..
You yourself have distorted facts..as have certain ex JWs....it’s a mess all around and it’s so hard to find ANY one Who can have a balanced view over it.
I do not speak out ignorance ..but deal with facts..everything else is a waste of time and effort..
 

Well I was loath to chime in on this subject I admit ...and it probably would have been wiser to not say a thing..and yes I broke  my own rule over this.
Because it declines into a emotional school yard cat fight... but you also do not fully understand either Billy....NONE..of us here do...not really.
But I know first hand of certain issues here in Australia..I watched all of the ARC..talked with victims and elders...know  of certain    cases...intimately ..so can speak from experience...
The way they were handled by elders and the Branch directions of the time..and how victims were handled...and the frustrations of elders and the victims.
I listen to witnesses who have got things a bit wrong...sometimes a lot wrong...and a lot right .
I listen to Ex JWs who have got some things right and some things wrong...
It is not as simple or straightforward forward as so many believe....it is not black and white
I have distorted nothing...I am just more balanced over this subject .than you
Agreeing with anEx Jw on certain matters  does not make one their Alia..it’s just acknowledging a fact that may be correct in a certain issue at a certain time.
as far as chiming in..we have discussed this before me with you actually...and that didn’t end very well either....you told me you were not my brother...so as I said...I am loath to enter such a discussion..it goes round and round in circles with insults thrown at each other....and everyone becomes like rabid dogs biting at each other and thinking it is okay because it is a forum...and thinking Jehovah is going to accept such behaviour and excuse us of it.....and I include myself in this as well.
I wish you well CC..I’m not to sure who you are...as I’m not to sure who anyone is here ...
As far as a culture thing...Jehovah’s laws are laws...I once had a elder say to me over a very serious matter.....” well it’s not how Australians are”....
no I thought...but it is how Jehovah is......
I won’t reply on this matter again....but I stand by my words and will not back off from them even tho I will remain silent...
 
Witnesses are allowed to disagree with each other..we are not robots....it does not make us apostates...or idiots...just people with differing views ...which may change at any given time..and also may not change.
I don’t always agree with Toms view..nor he with mine...but what a great conversation we would have in a car group..
You yourself have distorted facts..as have certain ex JWs....it’s a mess all around and it’s so hard to find ANY one Who can have a balanced view over it.
I do not speak out ignorance ..but deal with facts..everything else is a waste of time and effort..
 

It depends upon what you define as “doing the right thing.” In the eyes of are determined critics, we still are not “doing the right thing” and will not until any so much as a hint of CSA allegation is immediately forwarded by elders to the police—effectively making them an arm of the state. It is not for elders to make any judgment as to credibility or severity. Send any allegation to police. 
We may think we have settled matters by making clear there is no stigma in affected or knowledgeable parties going to police with CSA allegations “unproven” or not.  But they will not think so.
Sometimes I think these matters of who is mandated to report and who is not would be best settled by extending it across the board. At present, clergy, or in our case those who parallel them in some respects, are called upon to “do the right thing.” Doctors also are called upon to “do the right thing.” Extend it to lawyers that they also must “do the right thing”—send any admission or suspicion of CSA straight to police—and the entire mandated structure of other parties might reverse.
So desperate is the world to stop CSA, so ineffectual are they at doing it, that the idea has been floated of make any person a mandated reporter.
Of course, in the eyes of our really determined critics, we will not be “doing the right thing” until we cease to exist. It is why I was so taken with Holly Folk’s frank caution: “If you are a past or present JW victim of CSA, be careful that you are not victimized anew by those who feign interest in your trauma so as to use you in their quest to take down a religion they dislike.
 

Doesn’t matter. If ones go straight to police with an allegation and police decide there is nothing to it, then no harm is done to anyone beyond some inconvenience & maybe false suspicion. 
If ones go straight to the police and an abuser is thrown into the hoosegow, no doubt elders will find out about it then. At that time, they can begin whatever spiritual role they will play. They’d have no reason to feel “left out of the loop,” and I don’t think they would.

Arauna I agree with so much of what you say...but as a people we shouldn’t have needed the ARC..to do the right thing....that’s what some are arguing here.
And they are right....BUT..we have corrected  the error..even if it was forced on us....our policies have been updated..and this would never happen again...it will never be sorted in house or quietly .
we are under Jehovah’s Laws...and there are no loopholes with them...but he taught us...thru the ARC.

The elders didn’t screw up Anna..it was the way things were done back then...their hands were tied....we have to acknowledge that...our policies have changed because of the ARC....

That takes a humility not found among all of us. Learning from our students rather than thinking only of ourselves as the teacher can be very beneficial.
My wife and I have years of pioneering behind us, although we are less active now. We both learned a lot from studying with a couple where the wife was mentally ill ("possession" issues), and they became Witnesses with no further issues that I have heard about. My wife and I studied with another mentally ill woman who had been in a jail (NYC Creedmoor), and whose fleshly brother (also an addict) joined one time creating a scene that brought about an assault situation for the police. There was no success here in converting the person, but it created a deep friendship and evidently a life-long change in the woman who has overcome addiction, and is still loved deeply by us. She actually sees herself as a Witness, although the elders here would not allow baptism.
I studied for years with persons inside medium and high-security prisons. Altogether, it's like a course in psychology.
I studied with one family where the husband was a policeman, the wife took a year of studying and long late-night hours with me on the phone to help her overcome her smoking addiction. They were baptized together. Their two children were too young at the time, but one has been baptized since. This is a sad situation for me, because we love the family and have been close, but he is an elder now and realizes that I didn't believe in the 1914 chronology because of things he remembered in the way I studied it with him. He confirmed this by asking me directly, and has now asked that we have no more contact.
Very early in my pioneering (pre-Bethel) I loved studying the Evolution book and the "Is the Bible Really the Word of God?" book with university students. It was easy to pick up a dozen Bible Studies, and this made the pioneering hour quota go by so easily. (Strangely, one of these studies left Missouri after getting baptized and joined the congregation I was assigned to in NY at Bethel.)  My mother is pioneering as we speak and calls in to the meeting for service every day before letters or phone calls, and she currently has only one regular Bible Study. She stays on the line with one of the other sisters so they can talk together while writing letters, but getting in the quota is so slow-going for her.
That can be read with a bit of ambiguity. If you care to, I am always happy to discuss.
I either join or create a discussion on the topic about once a year on the forum, because I have now spent enough time on the topic to be convinced in my own mind. It's not something I feel is specifically important in the long run, but it's part of an ongoing and ever-resurfacing problem of trying to motivate activity (works) by emphasizing that we have special knowledge of the times and seasons. Going back to review how we (as an organization) received this 1914 tradition was an important lesson in humility for me. But sharing that lesson will just be seen by most as the exact opposite of humility and some will vehemently oppose discussing it reasonably.
I've reached the same idea, and I know that other JWs have also concluded the same. One or two others have implied as much on this forum.

One thing I've had hammered into me over the past decades of pioneering, studying w/mentally ill people, people who were out of jail, homeless people, professors of anthropology, teachers of farsi at the local mosque, chinese buddhists from hong kong (using me to practice english), professors of astrophysics, ranchers, ex-football champs, a hip hop artist and so-called normal people is that I'm not more worthy of survival than any of these.
In fact many are arguably better people personality wise. People who really care about other people.
That's been my lesson. I believe the truth of the bible in outline taught by JW's w/exception w/regard to rather specific ideas surrounding certain events in the last 100 years.
My experience coming in was that these were some of the most open-minded people I'd dealt with. I watched them w/my gf for about six months just observing these meetings and going to get togethers (she was studying - I was an unhappy atheist). I felt that out of respect for her interest it was worth my time to watch them for a time to see what I thought of them.
At some point, I thought "I want all my friends to be JW's, but I don't want to be one." I could see weird people in the congregation and normal people - as an outsider. Weird people always give me the creeps, but most of the people I talked with didn't do that, like every other religion.
My change in attitude came from the first apologetics I'd ever seen "Is the Bible Really the Word of God", the old book on Evolution (a little blue one)...then I started hitting Christian stores and found a bunch. I hadn't started to study yet, but went w/my gf to one day of this district convention when they released the book "Life How Did It Get Here - By Evolution or Creation". I read it that night. What's funny is that I had almost all the referenced books because I was taking a lot of evolutionary classes at the university - I was in the midst of E. O Wilson's - Sociobiology and had finished Dawkins book the Selfish Gene. I was amazed. I went and got every book I could find on this, one of my favorites being the book "Darwin Was WRONG - A Study in Probabilities".  After eating up all I could on this, I was a thoroughgoing theist.
So I brightened so no doubt. God exists!.... Next step...has he communicated w/us....
So I doubled up on apologetics relative to the manuscript and historical evidence for the Bible. I used Gleason Archer's "A Survey of Old Testament Introduction" and "Is The Bible Really the Word of God" ...anyway a lot more in this regard....I bought the cassettes for the bible and listened to them while I was running.  (I'd started to study now, because I felt the guy who was studying w/me was OK, but he was kindof not that logical, so I got passed on to another couple of elders and we'd go through the material.
It'd go like "How does that make you feel about Jehovah" (a sample question), and I'd go "I can see from x that if y were true it would be reasonable to feel z, but I'm not quite there yet."
It took a while. I had more questions on biology and so they brought in this sister who'd been a masters biology major and I got to grill her w/questions.
Me - "What about the dinosaurs?"
Her - "Soil building takes time. Dinosaurs were great processors of plant material....."
It went like that.
I wasn't and still haven't been thoroughly convinced on some of these matters. (but is it important, when there IS a creator?)
Then there was the whole 1914 thing. That was something needing analysis. The question then and now was not whether the Jews were in captivity 70 years, that was not disputed....At least not to believers, but chasing this chronology is a collossal pit....Not that I don't recommend chasing it, just that no one was ever convinced of anything via chronology. (Except if you were a Jew in Babylon and you got word it was getting close)
 
Anyway...I've wandered. My final point is that I don't believe the bar for survival to be only JW's. I'm thinking it's the majority. Now does this mean some event may be allowed to impact the earth and the only way people survive is through divine intervention? I think so. Then the rest who perished in my view would likely get resurrected - face it - it's only the blasphemy against God's spirit which according to the Insight book is hard to know if anyone has done this or not....so I'm sure Jehovah is more merciful than any of us could imagine.
So then you follow your conscience - it's yours to follow or not, to wound or not. If you know how to do what's right and don't that's on you. If someone's doing something wrong and that's out of your control - well "Desiderata"...
 
 
 
 

Arauna I agree with so much of what you say...but as a people we shouldn’t have needed the ARC..to do the right thing....that’s what some are arguing here.
And they are right....BUT..we have corrected  the error..even if it was forced on us....our policies have been updated..and this would never happen again...it will never be sorted in house or quietly .
we are under Jehovah’s Laws...and there are no loopholes with them...but he taught us...thru the ARC.