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Thinking

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  1. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in I hope you Jehovah's Witnesses are doing well.   
    You help your mom and those few other sisters, or you and those few other sisters help your mom? The wording is not clear. 
    It does remind me, though, of a local situation of an elderly sister who moved in with family that built an in-law apartment for her. She has never fully integrated with the congregation and I’m not sure why. Somewhere there is a disconnect with her unbelieving family who say, in the person of a daughter-in-law that they want to help spiritually (there is no question that physically she is cared for) and yet somehow there is no follow through. How hard can it be to physically get her connected with Zoom meetings, and yet somehow it doesn’t happen. Believe me, I personally have tried, and I am not the only one.
    Complaints filter down through that daughter-in-law that the congregation does not do enough. That daughter in law tells me she studied with Witnesses in another country for several years but the friends here are not loving like they were there. While that may (or may not) be true, I told her, that is not why someone pursues a relationship with God. It didn’t help when a local elder went to visit and got bit by one of several yappy dogs on the premises. 
    The elderly sister has the beginnings of Alzheimer’s. Even when she did not, she was very reserved and not easy to get to know. A local couple would pick her up for meetings. Something about the situation eventually wore them out, particularly as they began to cope with the ill health of their own parents. 
    I’ve visited this sister. The house is massive and new, with as many as six cars in the driveway. When the sister took a fall and broke an arm, the congregation provided meals for several months, at the suggestion of the daughter-in-law. It may not have occurred to them otherwise because plainly she lives among relatives that physically care for her. My wife coordinated that campaign. It seems like it might have run on forever, far longer than with anyone else, until my wife said ‘okay, glad that we have been able to relieve pressure, give the family a break, etc, and no doubt you can take over again as before.’ It is possible that we were being “used,”—it is not nothing to provide meals every day, particularly when it is not clear why family can’t do it themselves—but that’s not the important thing. I can even picture unbelieving family muttering about “cults” and so forth, but it has never been to our face, so it is just a possibility.
    She gets some phone calls, some cards, she is connected on Roku, I’ve been there to see that, but somehow things do not gel. I don’t know the answer. We do what we can do, but cannot do everything. Whatever family interplay there is was established long ago in another area, and there is only so far you can go in unraveling the oddities. There is a believing daughter that visits from time to time and hopefully alleviates matters.
    This is the only situation I know of, but it is reasonable to think every congregation has one or two parallels. On the other hand, there are also several old ones not tech savvy who have come up to speed with Zoom, usually with help, but it has happened. One who was never much in the physical ministry has blossomed in the virtual one. In short, I don’t think anyone has been “left behind” any more so than what would have happened prior to Covid.
    If you have @Araunaoffering to call all the way from Albania, Matthew, sounds to me like you should take her up on it. You, too, have some dysfunctional background, I recall. Didn’t you say your folks fought like cats and dogs and shouldn’t have had children? It’s to your credit that you provide for her, that being the case. Not all children do.
    This may be so, or it may be your interpretation of what is so. You say you don’t read the current material. If you did, you would notice at the latest midweek meetings how such a fuss was made over “there at Chebar a vision came to me,” with application that even if far removed from the physical organization, one is not removed from God.
    I’m not sure we do know this. I’ve heard several old-timers say they don’t care if we ever go back to physical meetings. It saves massive amounts of time and energy, which is not boundless at their age, and you can do nearly as much on Zoom as in person. I think pandemic is harder on young people than on old. As for me, I have unchained my inner hermit and he is doing just fine.
    You act as though the organization forsakes physical meetings because they care not about anyone’s concerns than theirs. Forgive me for saying it, but this smacks to me of the complaining victimization spirit of the day. When circumstances change, you have to adapt. The reason KHs are closed is, not as a personal affront to you or your mom, but because it is thought, and authorities continually advance the view, that it saves lives. Forgive me again for saying it, but if the KHs were open I can picture you complaining  how the organization doesn’t care if members die. It is kind of what you do, and I would be happier if you didn’t.
  2. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in I hope you Jehovah's Witnesses are doing well.   
    I have worked with people with Alzheimers - n the beginning they can still function but get disoriented very quickly and unfortunately become very emotional and sometimes depressed. They repeat some older stories over and over and sometimes display anxiety. It is hard to deal with, so you will mentally have to prepare for this. Anger also comes up quickly.  If she loses her faith - Jehovah knows she has been faithful all this time.... He will be just.
    I think it will be harder on you to watch this deterioration and on those in the congregation who will not understand what is going on.  I suggest you read a book about Alzheimers or dementia because they often have very similar manifestations.
    Do not take her moods to seriously and talk with her calmly and kindly. Go with her through old photo albums and play her favorite old music.  Short term memory is bad and long term memory is good - so she may tell you a few things you never knew - lol
  3. Upvote
    Thinking got a reaction from JW Insider in DF'ed for gluttony?   
    Well I hope you don’t get banned..I don’t see why you would..probably for the reason you have quoted above..
    Yes I liked JRT...for a number of reasons of which I won’t go into here...but yes I also winced as some of his phrases.... but I got him...
    As to abusive  language..well I tend to be surrounded by it normally...so what you and some others here class as abusive probably wouldn’t bother me too much..
    personally if I’m honest I dont really know who’s who..or who’s what..here...
    But I would object strongly if you were banned...
  4. Haha
    Thinking got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in DF'ed for gluttony?   
    Nor should they..this thread is stupid....brothers and sisters are dying out there.. being  tortured..thrown into prison...losing their employment..families turning on them...their faith tested to the max!!!!!!
    And the worse is yet to come for many of us
    and this is the Calibre of point of discussion...c’mon..people!!!
  5. Sad
    Thinking got a reaction from César Chávez in DF'ed for gluttony?   
    I miss him ...
  6. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in A question I always ask of the evangelical sorts (political, religious, anti-religious, environmental, whatever the cause)   
    I do not try to be a jerk to you. I honestly cannot read you and so have no idea how to answer earnestly. That, and a certain innate playfulness, results in the comments that it does. To me, you have a way of issuing veiled, unpredictable, and sometimes unaccountable rebukes. But I have nothing against you, really. I just can’t follow your thinking.
    ”Come, is not the land big enough for the both of us? I’ll even grant you the greater portion, so that you can keep kicking the stuffing out of JWI and I will do other things.”
  7. Haha
    Thinking reacted to xero in A question I always ask of the evangelical sorts (political, religious, anti-religious, environmental, whatever the cause)   
    This makes me feel like I'm one of the characters opposite Adam Sandler who hasn't a clue what's going on.
     
  8. Haha
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in A question I always ask of the evangelical sorts (political, religious, anti-religious, environmental, whatever the cause)   
    Oh mother, tell your children,
    not to throw away their decorum
    Spend your life in sheer lunacy
    On the World News Media Forum
  9. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in A question I always ask of the evangelical sorts (political, religious, anti-religious, environmental, whatever the cause)   
    I like this question. It is a variation of “If you could solve any problem of the world, which one would it be?” It is given more import in that you ask it when people actually are trying to solve one of them. I like it a lot, as well as the logical followup: Given that we have only so much time, where do we get the most bang for our buck?
  10. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Arauna in France’s controversial ‘separatism’ bill: Will it affect Jehovah's Witnesses ?   
    More human rules usually catches the innocent as well as the perpetrators. So yes, we do not print books in France any longer due to their other discriminatory laws. 
    It is to be expected - life will become tough and oppressive in last days
  11. Like
    Thinking got a reaction from xero in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    Bad men,,and women will always infiltrate the congregation..we have so many scriptural facts on that...I think where the society had to readjust and were forced to readjust was on our policies...we need to admit that...and we now have policies that allowed in house and even strongly encouraged in house handling ..removed..due to those policies being changed...certain things will no longer be handled or tolerated as they were once.
    It would have been best if the brothers had done this by themselves instead of the ARC forcing them too...BUT...they have changed..been corrected....we are being refined..wether we like it or not...wether  it hurts or not...we are still his imperfect people...wether chastised by the world or not...
  12. Downvote
    Thinking got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    I also read of a ex JW who stated he went to the Bible students ( Russell’s followers) and some other groups of which I cannot remember and he noted that all the problems he/she saw with In The org...was also present within those said groups..it’s everywhere...even Franz who wrote his famous book said he did not see that this was a issue any worse than any other faith...
     
  13. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Anna in DF'ed for gluttony?   
    I have noticed they are getting a little chubby, that does tend to happen with age. I would by no means call them obese though. Plus, as I mentioned, you don't know people's circumstances. In any case, I am wondering why, if you have such an aversion to them, you even know what they look like lately. Do you have an unhealthy obsession with them?
  14. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to xero in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    I do think Tom's reference to the outside source which distinguishes between institutional abuse and abuse in familial non-institutional settings is important. The source noted 1-2% of any given population having issues in this regard. This same percentage appears to be present among those identifying as JW's. These are humans w/the same failings. What's at issue is what it is that's suggested - conflating institutional abuse, Sunday Schools, Camps and the like w/paid clergy/laity vs abuse which happens in a home and later reported on.
  15. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to xero in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    This is a lot of energy. It doesn't not seem like what it appears to be - a lot of pain being expressed. Others have said and will likely say again that any trust in humans is misplaced trust, but none of it is convincing that it's the same sort of thing for which institutions have been convicted.
    I asked whether there was any group untouched by this sort of thing, and the absence of a response means you understand that there isn't.
    Others have pointed out how imagining that the organization is untouched by human imperfection is imagining an impossibility, and that idolizing it is a mistake. I've seen it done for years, but usually from those who wish to lord their relative positions over others.
    As a christian, you have no authority other than that of a fellow brother or sister and no further responsibility either. You have to adhere to your conscience and if you don't or haven't that's on you. If an elder or even a body of elders has done something of this sort, that's on them.
    I have and others who likewise consider themselves to be faithful test every expression ostensibly inspired or otherwise to see if it washes with scripture - if it does, fine, if it doesn't then you can't go along with it.
    Lumping all JW's together as if they had a collective responsibility over actions others have taken or haven't taken flies in the face of individual responsibility. It does accord, however with the zeitgest of marxist-post-modernism whereby there is no truth, only power and the idea of collective guilt and collective responsibility. Marx failed to enthuse the workers to revolt, but the post-modernist-marxists at every turn seek to organize society into a myriad competing, yet miserable factions all of which are seeking the status of the penultimate victim.
    I see a Satanic hand in all this as the nullification of the individual and individual responsibility and the denial of free will and truth.  Some might argue that being in an organization is equivalent to worshiping the organization. I don't. Paul made use of his status as a Roman citizen without being guilty of the abuses of the Roman state. Christians today could be in congregations which have strayed - that's on them to address. Are these addressing group sins, or those of individuals? If you have an issue w/an individual, you have recourse. Has a congregation gone wholly awry? If that's true, I haven't seen it yet, but if that time comes, it would be on me to deal with it. As an individual. And by scriptural means.
    Oh and at the risk of being taken seriously.
     
  16. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to xero in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    You know I've been studying this phenomenon for a long time. I decided to look at other non-trinitarian groups as well just to see what they had to say and how these were doing w/scandals. I've looked at non-denominational non-trinitarian groups as well. I've looked at some who say they believe in the trinity, but everything they say about Jesus and Jehovah indicate they are henotheists and not trinitarians at all. I haven't found a group yet which hasn't been touched by one scandal or another.
    I would say this doesn't surprise me. It also doesn't surprise me that a lot of CYA goes on in organizations. I find it quite disappointing. So that's why when I'm asked to pretend that our organization is the purest of them all. I can't. I don't know. How am I supposed to know?. I'm sure that the people I see in the congregations have the best of intentions and yes there have been exceptions, but all the failings I see are human failings. Even the way certain things are handled. I mean what are you to do when you're not a professional in these areas and you are honest with yourself.
    I suppose I would have (and still do) belay any instruction that I can't internally agree with.
    But we're back again. I've been going through prophesies which emphasizes specific events as being interpreted specific ways and unless you insist on a few key points, you find that it all gets rather ambiguous.
    Take the little horn in Daniel. If you look at it w/o the lens you currently have you might conclude other things.
    https://www.gotquestions.org/little-horn.html
    https://readingacts.com/2020/02/11/who-is-the-little-horn-in-daniel-78/
    https://atoday.org/a-new-interpretation-of-the-little-horn-of-daniel-7/
    (In this one it's Donald Trump)
    So I suppose I may be treading water (I wish I could walk on water) But rather than spending my time in defense of a narrow set of ideas, I focus on the practicality of living as a Christian. Not particularly thrilling to some, but necessary.
    I'm still asking/searching and knocking but my focus is trying to wrap my mind around what I can and can't know from scriptures.  When I read the eisegesis done w/Rev. 11 I have to roll my eyes a bit now.  (But I could be very wrong too, maybe it's right, but it seems forced) I keep this to myself because it invariably leads to a call on the mat and a flag salute. (Sorry Scooter...I follow Jehovah, his Son and the Bible) Also, these questions are MY problem. Not someone elses . I don't need to drag anyone along w/me and my private investigations.
  17. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    Others didn’t? Maybe they also had wives to “make excuses” for them.
    Look, I accept that your husband was a caring man. What “strikes a nerve” is how you assume that nobody else was.
    Your husband was a good man. You describe yourself as a “good elder’s wife.” (I am surprised you did not capitalize the ‘good’ in your case,) Still, he apparently wasn’t able to solve the problem. Why does everyone else have “blame” and he does not?
    It’s not so terrible for people to make their own arrangements when they know they present challenges (like bringing along several small children). As stated, I would sometimes put myself into such car groups. But it wasn’t always possible. Not even your good husband was able to fix it.
  18. Upvote
    Thinking got a reaction from JW Insider in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    Brilliant advice!
  19. Downvote
    Thinking got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    Someone really anointed or really Invited  would not promote or make it known on line ...it’s as simple as that..a really humble one ..would allow them selves  be wronged..as Jesus did and as the apostles did..
    PRIDE makes them have the need to be known.....
  20. Upvote
    Thinking got a reaction from TrueTomHarley in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    Someone really anointed or really Invited  would not promote or make it known on line ...it’s as simple as that..a really humble one ..would allow them selves  be wronged..as Jesus did and as the apostles did..
    PRIDE makes them have the need to be known.....
  21. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Anna in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    And as everyone knows, calling for harm to anyone is against all internet rules globally.   
  22. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to The Librarian in Enhanced film from 1927 captures a brother in Berlin, Germany   
    I would love to verify if the magazine he is displaying is indeed the Watchtower but the clarity just isn't that great.
    Enjoy a peek back almost 100 years. 
  23. Downvote
    Thinking got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    Brilliant advice!
  24. Upvote
    Thinking got a reaction from Anna in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    Someone really anointed or really Invited  would not promote or make it known on line ...it’s as simple as that..a really humble one ..would allow them selves  be wronged..as Jesus did and as the apostles did..
    PRIDE makes them have the need to be known.....
  25. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"   
    He was not removed for that reason.
    Look, nothing has changed with this new identification of the GB with the faithful slave. Before that was made the situation was the same. Headship came from a small group of under a dozen who, for practical reasons, physically gather together. Should they need a replacement, they look into the ranks of anointed worldwide, and select one. It was that way before. It is that way now. 
    Who do you think they are going to select? Someone who just recently began to partake, or one who has done so for a long time? Someone with relatively little experience in the Christian preaching work, or one who has specialized in it full-time for decades?
    This is not hard to answer. Even before this arrangement, anointed within the congregations knew, were content with, and deported themselves, that their assignment was to rule in the new system, not now. But it has apparently become the thing that there are now some anointed, whether for real or “self-promoted”  I know not, whether associated with a congregation or on the outside I know not, who want to be NOW seen as having authority. It has never been that way. 
    As far as I am concerned, Witness’s non-response to my request that she arrange the car group says it all. She bitterly complains on how sisters with many children are “ignored.” When I ask how would she handle the situation she herself presented she is silent. Yet she is not silent on everything. She continues to chime in about her being “cheated” out of her anointed status.
    Someone really anointed, someone really concerned with the sheep, would not ignore the scenario she presented herself as a complaint. She would tell how it is solved. She may have been like that at one time. But she appears far too interested in self-promotion” these days for her to be so now.
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