Jump to content
The World News Media

Thinking

Member
  • Posts

    2,047
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    44

Reputation Activity

  1. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Equivocation in How to Do Research   
    I second this. Even during the pandemic, there are those we preached to still contact us via phone or letters, having some Bible based questions answered. Also sometimes, it opens room for studying and doing research. Some of the most common things we run into in our ministry is today's situation, the economy, the pandemic, and the protesting. Sometimes we are often asked on why Jehovah's Witnesses maintain neutrality, and or they tend to ask you directly, so we, by means of researching, studying and knowing these things, we can give answer, as well as show them examples and explanation of things from Jehovah God's Word found in the Bible. Preaching may not be the same, but hey, we are still doing the work.
    The only cons of this pandemic is I ran out of magazines and tracts in Spanish, so I usually ask if they want it digitally, they accept, but for the people who are not tech savvy, they also accept print outside of a magazine or whatever subject they want to know found in other material.
    All and all, there are a lot of people who want to know more about Jehovah God, his Son Jesus and the Kingdom, in addition to what God's Kingdom will provide for mankind. 
  2. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to derek1956 in THE RAVENING WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING. NEW BOOK about JWs   
    Stop advertising apostate books and PRAISE JEHOVAH INSTEAD
     
     
     
     
     
     
  3. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to JW Insider in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    There is no misunderstanding of Furuli here. He distances himself very well from the 1975 speculation. Not completely, but he apparently understood it a little better than some District Overseers in the United States. I'm wondering if part of it wasn't the understanding of the verb modal "would." He pins a lot of the correct understanding on that English word. In the United States there may have been more people who read the word "would" as having a slightly stronger meaning.
    I have also used the words, "the time is short," in talks as a circuit and district
    overseer. But I have never asked the audience to stop with this or that because the time
    is short. As the district overseer from 1972 to 1974, I was the principal speaker at all the
    circuit assemblies in Norway, and my talks would naturally influence the view of the
    Witnesses regarding the year 1975. In 1966,when the book Life Everlasting in the Freedom
    of the Sons of God was published, there was a course for circuit servants at the branch
    office. When we discussed the book, I remember that the branch servant said that we
    should never say that Armageddon would come in 1975 or before that year, because we
    cannot know that. He pointed to some words on page 30 of the book: "It would not be
    by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah
    God for the reign of Jesus Christ, 'the Lord of the Sabbath' to run parallel with the
    seventh millennium of man's existence." The verb "would" shows that this is a possible
    but a hypothetical situation. I still have the notes for my talks, and the viewpoint that I
    presented in my talks was as follows: 'We do not know when the end will come. But we
    are eager to see if the 6,000 years of man's existence run parallel with the 6,000 years of
    Yehowa's day of rest! If we can free some time and do more in the preaching work,
    even become full-time preachers, while we are looking at the unfolding of world events
    down to 1975, that would be very fine. But we should not commit ourselves to the year
    1975 or another year. But as we do today, we should have balanced plans for ourselves
    and our family that go beyond the year 1975, while we live normal lives and serve
    Yehowa wholeheartedly.' [emphasis mine]
    My uncle who was in Circuit work at the time, got a different sense of the word "would" in his meetings/training which came from the D.O. in his case. C.Chavez son of D.O. (aka Allen) and scholar JW have both claimed "jp" correctly ties JABrown GT to 2520, It doesn't. Yet, actual parallel zw. 7th mil and JC's 1k yr reign? No connex!
  4. Thanks
    Thinking reacted to JW Insider in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    I brought it up because it's one of several places where Furuli's book provides the exact type of anecdote I am familiar with. These types of interactions were evidently memorable and important to Furuli, too.
    But you might recall that among Witnesses it started with a basis in the Watch Tower publications. We have all the evidence that the initial speculation and the promotion of that speculation came directly from the publications and later from talking points from Circuit and District Servants (Overseers). Of course, the Watchtower had used the date 1975 to promote speculation about what might likely happen in the mid-1970's, not 1975 specifically.
    Individuals, especially Circuit and District Overseers, and evidently FWFranz himself, speculated that this meant 1975 itself was just about the last possible year for Armageddon. Franz' early articles made it clear that, at most, it could only be a matter of weeks or months, but NOT years after October 1975. In other words, F.W.Franz promoted speculation that this system could not go beyond October 1977 because then it really would be "YEARS" after 1975. Mostly circuit and district overseers, those who held themselves out to be very careful readers of what the Society was actually saying here, were pointing out to audiences that if you read very closely, and with discernment, you will see that this is what the Society wants us to realize: That it's VERY unlikely that this system would go even as far as past 1975, or even if it did, it would only be a matter of months past 1975, not years. Therefore, we were supposed to speculate that Armageddon would come in the mid-1970s, not 1975 specifically. But the term "1975" became the shorthand for "mid-1970s" and this speculation about the mid-70s naturally became focused on the specific year 1975. So much so that when 1975 ended, almost all the talk of the mid-1970s ended then, too.
    That initial speculation that was promoted at the summer conventions in 1966 was followed up with speakers assigned to promote more speculation at the Circuit Assemblies in 1967. Then the "months, not years" Watchtower came out in 1968, and it was the same Watchtower that indicated it was wrong to use Matthew 24:36 to balance the enthusiasm about 1975/mid-70s. In 1969, it was predicted that young ones should not plan to go to college, and especially not anything like a 4-year college degree because they would not likely finish that degree in this old system. And, of course, it was also predicted that no young ones would every grow old in this system. They definitely would not be able to start a career in this system. By 1973, the publications were praising those who were selling their houses to spend the remaining months in full-time service.
    There might have been a few cautionary statements at the beginning, but they died out quickly, and we were told not to "toy" with scriptures that made cautionary statements in 1968. . It was not until 1974 that some of those more cautionary statements came out. My father gave at least one of these Circuit Assembly talks every year from 1967 to about 1972. He used Matthew 24:36 as a cautionary statement, even though he was not supposed to do that, according to the 1968 "months, not years" Watchtower.
    By 1974 it was obvious that things were not really going as planned. (Inside Bethel, FWFranz was beginning to talk about 1974 as the likely year, even more likely than 1975) so when 1974 wasn't seeing things happening quickly even FWFranz himself began giving cautionary talks.
    An experiment that might tell you something of the timing of these cautionary talks is reflected, I think, in the number of times Matthew 24:42, 24:36 and Mark 13:32 was quoted in the Watchtower:
    “Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming."
    1964 ONCE 1965 through 1974: ZERO TIMES!!! 1975: TWICE 1976: ONCE 1977: ZERO 1978: ONCE 1979 - 1993 ZERO And how about the same for Matthew 24:36:
    (Matthew 24:36) (Mark 13:32) . . .“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, . . .
    1965: TWICE 1966: ZERO 1967: ONCE 1968: TWICE (but including the article against using it!)  1969 through 1973: ZERO TIMES!!! 1974: ONCE 1975: FOUR TIMES!! 1976: ZERO 1977: ZERO 1978: ZERO Such important scriptures nearly skipped from 1966 to 1974!!! Only brought up again in 1974 and 1975.
  5. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to JW Insider in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    So far, I can't help but see a strong parallel between Ray Franz and Rolf Furuli's choice of words, style and even some of his entire talking points. I already had five R.F. marks in the margins (pdf) before even got out of the Introduction. And it started not to matter whether the R.F. stood for Rolf Furuli or Ray Franz, so I stopped highlighting those kinds of parallels.
    Two of the parallels are so "eerie" that I wonder how aware Furuli is about how they sound. Here's one:
    Ray Franz became associated with the term "captives of a concept" as a way to explain how and why the GB see themselves in a position that is so difficult to explain Biblically. Furuli hits several of Ray Franz' points in the same order that Franz presents them:
    I do not question
    the sincerity of the members of the GB. But it seems to me that they are
    held captive by their belief that they are chosen by God as "the faithful
    and discreet slave," and that they have been appointed over Jehovah's
    Witnesses as their government with unlimited power.
    Here's another one, that echos the theme of R.Franz' second book:
    This letter shows that the members of the GB believe that they have
    the right to . . .
    overrule the consciences of individual Witnesses. But this is an attack on
    the Christian freedom that Paul mentioned in Galatians 5.1.
    Of course, that doesn't necessarily go to your point about Furuli's goals, because Ray Franz' style appeared to be much more reluctant about saying anything, but explained how he had been forced into a corner to explain himself due to rampant misinformation. This rang true with Ray Franz that he had never wanted to leave the organization, or try to do anything that would get him in any kind of trouble that would force anyone to try to make him leave, or try to undermine anything to do with current doctrines or teachings, after settling into his congregation. The problem apparently started only when the congregation wanted to use Ray Franz as an elder, and the local elders wrote the Society to find out if that would be appropriate. Until then there was apparently no reason to go after Ray Franz to try to get him disfellowshipped. So, "Chairman Ray" may have been the very opposite of your revolutionary. And Furuli is setting himself up similarly as a non-revolutionary.
    One major difference is that Furuli has evidently taken a more proactive role, and pretty much admits to assuming that he won't be answered, just because they haven't dealt with him or his issues yet. You might have nailed it when you wondered just how he knows they are refusing to consider his "corrections." But I'm pretty sure that he knows. He knows what is inevitable, or at least what would have been inevitable if he hadn't got this book out there first.
    A former circuit and district overseer can read the signs, especially one whose work has previously been welcomed into the hearing of the GB.
  6. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    People think the Lennon/McCarney song Revolution advocates revolution. Does it?
    You say you want a revolution, Well, you know, We all want to change the world...
    But when you talk about destruction, Don't you know that you can count me out, Don't you know it's gonna be , All right....
    You say you got a real solution, Well, you know, We'd all love to see the plan...
    You say you'll change the constitution, Well, you know, We all want to change your head
    You tell me it's the institution, Well, you know, You better free you mind instead
    But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Ray, You ain't going to make it with anyone anyway, Don't you know it's gonna be , All right, all right, all right
    Got a real solution? Show the plan. But if someone brings his plan to the altar and it is not acted on, what then? Does one become of those who pushes ahead? Or does one free his mind instead and not make a grab for the wheel of the bus? As to getting myself a free copy...
    I did. I emailed him. Unfortunately, every malcontent in the world probably did, too—some to laud him and some to express dismay that their own pet peeve has been ignored. He may not want to hear from any of them—since he says that the core doctrines are all true, words that most of them will choke on—most of them want “destruction.” Therefore, I despair of breaking through the pack and securing a free copy.
    I may write a lot, have a way with words, and craft them uniquely, but it would be a stretch to call myself a scholar, so I do not do so. “One scholar to another—I’ll drink to that,” said George Patton. Maybe some other scholar can get me in good with him. Or maybe I’ll have to pay up, which doesn’t seem right. Or maybe I’ll just wait to referee the brouhaha that results as others devour it. 
    What will be the upshot? Much has changed since the time of Chairman Ray, which was a bit early for me and I’ve never read his book—I barely have to since so many have told me what’s in it. As mentioned before, what is the tone of this book? Is it a call for “revolution” or does he say to those opposers who want destruction, “count me out.”? Arauna says everything has to be judged in its own historical context, and much has changed in forty years.
    He wouldn’t appear on that smug webhost’s site because he was an apostate—surely that’s a good sign—just as I would not appear on Lloyd’s podcast, though he all but begged me to and was nice as pie until he realized I had no intention of doing so, after which he was horrible. Note how this fellow Norwegian self-described apostate oozes contempt that CO’s usually start as “window cleaners”—the same way that Celsus ridiculed the first and second century Christians for being “shoemakers, laborers, and the most clownish of men,” completely forgetting how God is partial toward those people and doesn’t look down upon them at all.
    I think there is a scene in Superman in which a battle of titans looms and one of the regular citizen-mortals says, “This is going to be good!” (JTR would know—what a time for him to leave!) That’s what they’re saying at Reddit, now. 
  7. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to JW Insider in Surprisingly Accurate Assessment of the June 2020 BLM Protests   
    I think a lot of people are surprised at the global spread of the protests and rioting. What might be even more surprising is the support by many media outlets, not just of the protests, but also supporting the rioting and destruction. MLK is quoted where he said that 'riots are the language of the oppressed.' (Which cherry-picks the quote out of MLK's context that did NOT support rioting.) It's also odd that all this happens in the midst of Covid19, which has disproportionately killed more African-Americans than police have for the last 100 years. Yet, there is no protest about the languishing response to that particular part of the Covid19 problem.
    Another odd thing to notice about BLM is that one of their major contributors is from a CIA-backed organization. For those who might think this is just a conspiracy, the Ford Foundation has already admitted to giving more than $100,000. The CIA.org website reviews a book called "The Cultural Cold War" sometimes critiquing and sometimes accepting the author's claims:
    She also does a fine job in recounting the intriguing story of how the CIA worked with existing institutions, such as the Ford Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation, and established numerous "bogus" foundations to "hide" its funding of the Congress for Cultural Freedom and its other covert activities.  
    In truth, the Ford Foundation has a long history with the CIA, especially post-WW2 through today. The New Yorker admits a connection, of sorts:
    The Ford Foundation . . . The left thought that it was propping up the status quo, and was probably a front for the C.I.A. to boot (and, in fact, the C.I.A. was using other foundations for covert funding).
    Books, websites, (in some cases even those written by persons involved with the Ford Foundation) admit to the intended effect of hiring CIA recruits and supporting CIA projects. Summaries of some of these activities are easily found, and not even denied:
    Ford Foundation, a philanthropic facade for the CIA
    by Paul Labarique
    Between 1947 and 1966 the Ford Foundation played a key role in the network of US interference in Europe through the subvention of magazines, scientific programs and non-communist left-wing organizations. The largest philanthropic organization in the world was in fact providing a respectful facade for CIA financial and contact operations. This role was even more possible by the fact that the same persons designed and directed both organizations.
    Also here:
    James Petras, retired Bartle Professor (Emeritus) of Sociology at Binghamton University in Binghamton, New York, and adjunct professor at Saint Mary’s University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, wrote a damning article on September 18, 2002, exposing the Ford Foundation’s sinister choice of beneficiaries of its donations. He accused the CIA of using “philanthropic foundations as the most effective conduit to channel large sums of money to Agency projects without alerting the recipients to their source”.
    A quick search on Google shows that even the Washington Post has made the connection as recently as 2018:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2018/08/22/the-cia-funded-a-culture-war-against-communism-it-should-do-so-again/
    The CIA funded a culture war against communism. It should do so again.
    Magazines like Der Monat and English-American literary-political journal Encounter were not the only activities supported by nonprofit pass-throughs such as the Farfield Foundation and the Ford Foundation. The CIA-backed Congress for Cultural Freedom brought the Boston Symphony to Europe (at the cost of $166,359.84 . . .
    It can be just as hard to guess what the CIA's thinking is about BLM. But, based on past uses and abuses of philanthropic organizations, the surreal response should be looked at with some suspicion.
    Oh wait, did I promise I wouldn't say things like:  "but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one"? Or,  "They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day . . ."
  8. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to JW Insider in Minneapolis: Video showing the brutal arrest of George Floyd, who later died   
    Looks like there are videos here that match up with the same kinds of videos that came out of Ferguson, Missouri. Where white persons were brought in from other places, even policemen, in order to instigate violence and looting. The assumption is apparently made that if looting can be instigated or exacerbated, that police violence against African Americans will be forgiven.
    This kind of "false flag" is used to delegitimize protests. Trump responds on Twitter by threatening to use the military to shoot the looters. Ironically, Trump was the person who recently released 1960's JFK documents that (inadvertently?) exposed the false flag plan by the American government to kill hundreds of Americans in Miami in order to blame it on Cuba to get sympathy for dropping bombs on Cuba. And just now, in the ADD manner of "Oh! Look! A squirrel!" Trump just literally tweeted a minute ago out of the blue: "China!" (Nothing else yet; no context.)
    I have no idea what's true and what isn't about these videos, or the ones from Ferguson, Mo, or Charlottesville, etc. But it does undoubtedly show a white person covering his own identity while breaking windows in the midst of the Minneapolis protests. There are other supporting videos, too.
     
  9. Sad
    Thinking got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    You make me sick...you have shown your real core to everyone here....a man puts up what could be his eulogy to all..and you post up something to promote your belief...you try to score a point....you are ruthless and cruel..and so are some others here....you have shown the whole forum what condition  your heart is...How about showing a little common decency..and some respect....you disgust me as a human..
    Unbelievable!!!
  10. Upvote
    Thinking got a reaction from JW Insider in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Yes I knew where he got that from and the point wasn’t missed...too sad...and I hope I’m wrong....dam ..I hope I’m wrong...
  11. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Space Merchant in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    It is wise to understand as to why this was spoken of regarding Abraham. In Scripture this was noted several times. That is also true, but one should not be confusing both concepts.
  12. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Space Merchant in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    What some fail to see is that Jesus gave instruction on how the church is to function. Even if you tell someone this a number of times, as is done on this forum on occasion, they forget very easily, for they do not truly read what is stated. Now, despite these instructions, the men Jesus entrusted, and later other men, were not perfect, therefore, early points in the church's history one can see what was went down, as is with church practices among the early Christians.
    That is correct concerning God's Laws, however, some are a bit confused on God's Laws, and, I know Srecko loved this one, how it correlates with Biblical Facts. But yes, when we take up God's Laws and the principles found in Scripture and do well to apply them, we can grow spiritually, and our faith will be strong, but just as a muscle trained by body builders, as is with our faith, we do must continue to train it so it is always growing and staying strong, likewise, as with the Faithful Servant passage, spiritual food and milk is gain through that network as well.
    That being said, I do not know how anyone can think as him, granted, I am still flabbergasted by the last decision with him regarding Ba'laam, even prior to my ministry tours with some folk, that notion was still absurd in all sense.
    All in all, the core of it all is understanding God's Word, what it means, and how to apply it.
  13. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Space Merchant in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Learning correctly from the Scriptures is all that someone needs, especially you yourself, from what I can see. Once one understand God's Word, it does not stop there, they continue to progress and build up their faith in the profess. Regardless if someone is a JW, Biblical Unitarian, etc, they can learn too, it is not difficult. When one learn as such, they can develop spiritual growth with ease.
    I'm only issue is conspiracy, falsehood and misconception. My biggest issue is Trinitarianism and the later manuscripts that commits to error in Scripture.
    That being said, this just shows you assume things without knowing. I believe there is a lesson in the Bible for that, perhaps apply it, and maybe you too can take your own advice and medicine in regards to spiritual growth.
  14. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Of course. Obviously. What!—you think it is right that Christians should be followers of men? I think you mutter just for the sake of muttering.
    God’s laws and principles are to be found in the Bible. That is where the guidance and boundaries are. That is where members are to go so as to grow spiritually. The hope is that they should grow to maturity, make decisions per God’s laws and principles, and do not just say, “What do you think, Srecko, so I can think just like you?”
  15. Like
    Thinking reacted to TrueTomHarley in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    People want so badly to be followers of men. “I don’t care what reasoning has been done or what counsel has been given. I want to know what you think.” 
    Elders resist this because they are not trying to make their very own disciples. 
    “For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” but another says, “I to A·polʹlos,” are you not acting like mere men? 5 What, then, is A·polʹlos? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one.  6 I planted, A·polʹlos watered, but God kept making it grow,  7 so that neither is the one who plants anything nor is the one who waters, but God who makes it grow.”
  16. Upvote
    Thinking got a reaction from Anna in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I feel nothing but sadness over this...I actually feel sick....I don’t know his past as most of you all do here..but I could see that obviously he had been hurt and badly disappointed in things he had witnessed and experienced or heard..that goes on InThe Org.
    I hope sincerely  he does not become brother watchtower ....Because we don’t follow watchtower...no matter what others say....or try to infer on many of us here.
    I believe he had a genuine heart.
    I also hope he has left to do as you think he has ...and he isn’t dying !!!.
    I would also like to point out what  Bro. David Splane  from the GB said at our Melbourne assembly
    I can only paraphrase it from memory.
    (There  are brothers and sisters who have been hurt with in the org....and we may have to allow them and put up with ...WILD TALK....from them...it’s part of their healing..).
    He was mocked a lot and some down right cruel comments thrown his way ....I actually was surprised at how well he took it......I hope he comes back for selfish reasons...but for his sake....he would probably be safer and more content And remain faithful by going into his interior room until the denunciation has passed over.
     
     
     
  17. Like
    Thinking got a reaction from SuzA in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I am truly saddened by this....I hope you are okay brother and you have been a great encouragement...because even tho you were obviously hurt with in the truth....you never lost your genuine love for your God Jehovah...and you underestimate your faith...faith is easy when it has not been beaten,,,,but to still have faith when you have been beaten and lay wounded.....that’s real faith...and it would be a honour to have served shoulder to shoulder with you.
    I don’t know what’s going on..but I sincerely hope you are reasonably well....and a huge thank you from me....for being REAL !!!!!!
  18. Like
    Thinking reacted to Melinda Mills in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    That was so sweet James!   Will send you this video a brother from New Zealand just sent.  But remember this scripture:
    (Ephesians 4:23, 24) And you should continue to be made new in your dominant mental attitude, 24 and should put on the new personality that was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty.
    You make changes daily and gradually.  It is not hard. You probably had to change your thinking in some way in order to write a nice post like that.  I endorse the two other posts above also.
    I think you said things like that before.  But you are still here.  I am not saying 'Bye.  Listen to this lovely video.  Hope it plays!
     
     
    IMG_25941.MOV
  19. Upvote
    Thinking got a reaction from Anna in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I am truly saddened by this....I hope you are okay brother and you have been a great encouragement...because even tho you were obviously hurt with in the truth....you never lost your genuine love for your God Jehovah...and you underestimate your faith...faith is easy when it has not been beaten,,,,but to still have faith when you have been beaten and lay wounded.....that’s real faith...and it would be a honour to have served shoulder to shoulder with you.
    I don’t know what’s going on..but I sincerely hope you are reasonably well....and a huge thank you from me....for being REAL !!!!!!
  20. Upvote
    Thinking got a reaction from JW Insider in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I am truly saddened by this....I hope you are okay brother and you have been a great encouragement...because even tho you were obviously hurt with in the truth....you never lost your genuine love for your God Jehovah...and you underestimate your faith...faith is easy when it has not been beaten,,,,but to still have faith when you have been beaten and lay wounded.....that’s real faith...and it would be a honour to have served shoulder to shoulder with you.
    I don’t know what’s going on..but I sincerely hope you are reasonably well....and a huge thank you from me....for being REAL !!!!!!
  21. Like
    Thinking got a reaction from Melinda Mills in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I am truly saddened by this....I hope you are okay brother and you have been a great encouragement...because even tho you were obviously hurt with in the truth....you never lost your genuine love for your God Jehovah...and you underestimate your faith...faith is easy when it has not been beaten,,,,but to still have faith when you have been beaten and lay wounded.....that’s real faith...and it would be a honour to have served shoulder to shoulder with you.
    I don’t know what’s going on..but I sincerely hope you are reasonably well....and a huge thank you from me....for being REAL !!!!!!
  22. Like
    Thinking reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Joseph the Dreamer   
    I realize all to well that I should NEVER be granted immortality, as one of the Anointed of God, and my chief value as a human is to set a bad example that should NOT be emulated.
    Perhaps that is why all three of my children turned out so well ....they had my example of what they did not want to turn out like.
    I do like to discuss philosophy, common sense, practical efficiencies, but consider myself a "theologian" ... nah.
    The "dark side of the Force, Luke ..." is unfortunately, very strong within me.
    If I had not been associated with Jehovah's Witnesses my whole adult life, I probably would have been rightfully executed many, many years ago, and Civilization would have been a lot safer.
  23. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to The Librarian in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I sincerely hope he doesn't change.
    I've enjoyed his brutal truth throughout the years. 
    Courage is not something that needs changing.
    I hope you are ok @James Thomas Rook Jr.
     
     
  24. Upvote
    Thinking reacted to Space Merchant in Mother’s Day – Should True Christians partake in this holiday/tradition?   
    Granted it is Mother's Day tomorrow (I think some have it a bit early), this would be the right time to profess this truth. Perhaps any who do celebrate this holiday, give this truth as a gift and make an effort to commit to change. Let the truth set you free, despite the fact that the truth, often times, hurts, or as Jesus puts it in John 8:32:
    "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
    What is Mother's Day? A small snippet from Wikipedia states the following: 
    Mother's Day is a celebration honoring the mother of the family, as well as motherhood, maternal bonds, and the influence of mothers in society. It is celebrated on various days in many parts of the world, most commonly in the months of March or May. It complements similar celebrations honoring family members, such as Father's Day, Siblings Day, and Grandparents Day.

    True Christians see Mother’s Day as any other tradition and or holiday. Moreover, Christians, and or anyone, do not need to narrow things down to a singular day to show love and appreciation for someone, especially someone’s mother, hence, will love their mothers just as much that day as any other day.
    In the Bible, it does give command to young children to honor, as well as to obey and respect their parents:

    Ephesians 6: 1-2 - Children and Parents - [1] Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. [2] “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise),

    As we can see, nowhere in Scripture was there any sort of advocating for the commemoration of a special holiday, as such today’s holiday, being Mother’s Day. Therefore, such a practice is no where in the Bible, and that is an absolute fact.
    What makes True Christians different from mainstream Christians, is that we do not partake in such an event. We do so by avoiding taking any form of participating in any celebrations with religious origins that never is linked with Christianity. It is no surprise that some individuals will say:

    Mother's Day does not have any connection to paganism and that it is presently considered a largely secular event celebrated by everyone.
    Or
    Mother’s Day has no pagan roots, it is a harmless holiday
    Or
    People like that don't celebrate any holiday, or Mother's Day because they love to suck the fun out of everything.
    Or
    Christians are ALLOWED to partake in this holiday. We do not include pagan practices nor do we do anything that ancient Greece practice. Stop killing the fun for everyone.
    Or
    Because you condemn this wholesome loving practice, you are against the [they will say the following: God, against Jesus, or against the Spirit]
    Or
    If you don't celebrate Mother's Day, you don't love your mother. You should be ashamed.
    The list goes on, as with the reasoning for an indefensible cause is absurd.
    Mainstream Christians do not care of the roots, and celebrate the holiday anyway; the opposition and the apostates will say that those who do not celebrate are in the wrong for not partaking, thus in disagreement

    Moreover, mainstream Christianity promotes and partake in said holidays, including this one, in addition, it is another way of gaining congregants with an Unchristian practice.
    Little do they know that the earliest Mother's Day celebrations can be traced back to the Spring celebrations of ancient Greece in honor of Rhea (Ρεια Ρεα), also known as The Mother of the Gods (The Great Mother of the Gods)
    Things to Note: Some historians claim that Mother's Day originates from ancient spring festivals dedicated to maternal goddesses.
    Another snippet from Wikipedia: The modern Mother's Day began in the United States, at the initiative of Anna Jarvis in the early 20th century. This is not (directly) related to the many traditional celebrations of mothers and motherhood that have existed throughout the world over thousands of years, such as the Greek cult to Cybele, Rhea the Great Mother of the Gods, the Roman festival of Hilaria, or the Christian Mothering Sunday celebration (originally a commemoration of Mother Church, not motherhood). However, in some countries, Mother's Day is still synonymous with these older traditions.
     
    The Holiday is in connection with pagan practices
    Jeremiah 7:18 - The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven [*]. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me [Yahweh/Jehovah/YHWH] to anger.
    * - The title of a goddess worshipped by apostate Israelites; possibly a fertility goddess. This was a practice back in the days of Prophet Jeremiah. Regarding Judah and Jerusalem, the partakers were primarily women and apparently their entire family participated in some way or form regarding  worshiping the queen of the heavens. The women baked sacrificial cakes, while the sons were tasked to collect firewood, and afterwards, the fathers would ready the fire. These sacrificial cakes were offered on alters. The worship of this goddess was so heavy, that its grip on the Jews was a strong one. This resulted in Prophet Jeremiah to point out the wrongdoing and the falsehood of their view (Jeremiah 44:15-30).
     
     How are these events practiced in such an ancient time? On the origin of such observance, it is a festival that derives from the custom of Mother Worship in ancient Greece. This form of worship also includes various ceremonies to [or pay tribute to] Cybele, or Rhea, the Great Mother of the Gods, that were performed on the Ides of March throughout Asia Minor. Hence, the revealing origin of the practice of setting aside a day to honor mothers.
    More Notes on [Goddess Rhea]: RHEIA (Rhea) was the Titanis (Titaness) mother of the gods, and goddess of female fertility, motherhood, and generation. Her name means "flow" and "ease." As the wife of Kronos (Cronus, Time), she represented the eternal flow of time and generations; as the great Mother (Meter Megale), the "flow" was menstrual blood, birth waters, and milk. She was also a goddess of comfort and ease, a blessing reflected in the common Homeric phrase "the gods who live at their ease (rhea)." In myth, Rhea was the wife of the Titan Kronos (Cronus) and Queen of Heaven. When her husband heard a prophecy that he would be deposed by one of his children, he took to swallowing each of them as soon as they were born. But Rhea bore her youngest, Zeus, in secret and hid him away in a cave in Krete (Crete) guarded by shield-clashing Kouretes (Curetes). In his stead she presented Kronos with a stone wrapped in swaddling clothes which he promptly devoured. Rhea was closely identified with the Anatolian mother-goddess Kybele (Cybele). They were both depicted as matronly women, usually wearing a turret crown, and attended by lions.
    Note [Ides of March]: The Ides of March is the 74th day in the Roman calendar that corresponds to 15 March. It was marked by several religious observances and was notable for the Romans as a deadline for settling debts. In 44 BC, it became notorious as the date of the assassination of Julius Caesar which made the Ides of March a turning point in Roman history. The Romans did not number each day of a month from the first to the last day. Instead, they counted back from three fixed points of the month: the Nones (the 5th or 7th, nine days inclusive before the Ides), the Ides (the 13th for most months, but the 15th in March, May, July, and October), and the Kalends (1st of the following month). Originally the Ides were supposed to be determined by the full moon, reflecting the lunar origin of the Roman calendar. In the earliest calendar, the Ides of March would have been the first full moon of the new year. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ides_of_March)
     
    Regarding the adoption of Mother’s Day in the United States, the New York Times of 5/10/1953:
    “In spite of the popularity of Cybele, . . . and sporadic occasions honoring mothers during the Middle Ages, it was not until 1914 that the proper combination of sentimentality, idealistic promotion and hard business sense impelled the United States Congress to designate the second Sunday in May as Mother’s Day.”
    There is other information that also notes that:
    The majority of countries that celebrate Mother's Day do so on the second Sunday of May. On this day, it is common for Mothers to be lavished with presents and special attention from their families, friends and loved ones. But it wasn't always this way. Only recently dubbed “Mother's Day,” the highly traditional practice of honoring Motherhood is rooted in antiquity, and past rites typically had strong symbolic and spiritual overtones; societies tended to celebrate Goddesses and symbols rather than actual Mothers. The maternal objects of adoration ranged from mythological female deities to the Christian Church itself. The personal, human touch to Mother’s Day is a relatively new phenomenon. Only in the past few centuries did celebrations of Motherhood develop a decidedly human focus. (information comes from this source: http://www.mothersdaycentral.com/about-mothersday/history/)
    On the website, Mother's Day 123 Holiday, under the heading "Mother's Day History", it gives further insight on the holiday itself:
    Contrary to popular belief, Mother's Day was not conceived and fine-tuned in the boardroom of Hallmark. The earliest tributes to mothers date back to the annual spring festival the Greeks dedicated to Rhea, the mother of many deities, and to the offerings ancient Romans made to their Great Mother of Gods, Cybele. Christians celebrated this festival on the fourth Sunday in Lent in honor of Mary, mother of Christ. In England this holiday was expanded to include all mothers and was called Mothering Sunday.
    In the United States, Mother's Day started nearly 150 years ago, when Anna Jarvis, an Appalachian homemaker, organized a day to raise awareness of poor health conditions in her community, a cause she believed would be best advocated by mothers. She called it "Mother's Work Day."
    Fifteen years later, Julia Ward Howe, a Boston poet, pacifist, suffragist, and author of the lyrics to the "Battle Hymn of the Republic," organized a day encouraging mothers to rally for peace, since she believed they bore the loss of human life more harshly than anyone else.
    In 1905 when Anna Jarvis died, her daughter, also named Anna, began a campaign to memorialize the life work of her mother. Legend has it that young Anna remembered a Sunday school lesson that her mother gave in which she said, "I hope and pray that someone, sometime, will found a memorial mother's day. There are many days for men, but none for mothers."
    Anna began to lobby prominent businessmen like John Wannamaker, and politicians including Presidents Taft and Roosevelt to support her campaign to create a special day to honor mothers. At one of the first services organized to celebrate Anna's mother in 1908, at her church in West Virginia, Anna handed out her mother's favorite flower, the white carnation. Five years later, the House of Representatives adopted a resolution calling for officials of the federal government to wear white carnations on Mother's Day. In 1914 Anna's hard work paid off when Woodrow Wilson signed a bill recognizing Mother's Day as a national holiday.
    At first, people observed Mother's Day by attending church, writing letters to their mothers, and eventually, by sending cards, presents, and flowers. With the increasing gift-giving activity associated with Mother's Day, Anna Jarvis became enraged. She believed that the day's sentiment was being sacrificed at the expense of greed and profit. In 1923 she filed a lawsuit to stop a Mother's Day festival, and was even arrested for disturbing the peace at a convention selling carnations for a war mother's group. Before her death in 1948, Jarvis is said to have confessed that she regretted ever starting the mother's day tradition.
    Despite Jarvis's misgivings, Mother's Day has flourished in the United States. In fact, the second Sunday of May has become the most popular day of the year to dine out, and telephone lines record their highest traffic, as sons and daughters everywhere take advantage of this day to honor and to express appreciation of their mothers. 
    (Source: http://mothers-day.123holiday.net/)
    The inclusion of Mother’s Day was a brand-new phenomenon to the majority. Only in the past few centuries did celebrations of Motherhood develop such a focus, and only in last century did Mother’s Day was commercialized.
    Again, Wikipedia notes that: The U.S.-derived modern version of Mother's Day has been criticized for having become too commercialized*. Founder Jarvis herself regretted this commercialism and expressed views on how that was never her intention.
    Other noted information in bullet form:

    In view of the false religious background of the Mother’s Day holiday, is it not clear that True Christians in the 1st century would not have commemorated these days? If they have not commemorated this day, why celebrate it? So, then, is it right for us  to abstain from such observances and in turn, obey the command we find in the Bible when it tells us the following:
    2 Corinthians 6:17 - Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
    Now,Christians, True Christians need to be very careful with a holiday or custom. One can unknowingly fall into such practices if they do not know as much and can continue to deliberately partake. That being said, Christians can have wholesome activity with friends and family, but as said, there are some customs out there that they must avoid, especially if said holidays and or customs are intertwined with pagan religion activities in associations.
    Honestly think about it

    The question lies below for any one who claims they are a follower of Christ and of his God:
    Is it really worth it to partake in such a Holiday that has pagan roots, let alone has no connection to Christianity?
    Yes, one has the free will of choice, but one must also remember, that every action begets some result, and among the results, various consequences . That being said, in addition to that, the outcome can be detrimental to an individual’s faith, directly and or indirectly.
    That being said, some quick points:
    As with majority of Holidays adopted by mainstream Christianity, Mother's Day, as with the others, have pagan roots. Therefore, just because one does not partake in this holiday, does not mean they hate their mother (an absurd assumption). It is no different from Birthdays, Christmas, Easter, what have you. You do not have to be in subjection to paganism to honor your mother, for the Bible is very clear, concerning young children and their parents. Mainstream Christianity and today's world promote falsehood of this level and even commercialize it. 1st Century Christians never have commemorated such a practice. A faithful and True Christians understands the anger of such practices and how it can effect them, therefore, they see the danger and will do everything to avoid and abstain from such practices. Best to take into account the following verse: Proverbs 22:3, which states: The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it. When dealing with people, let alone if questioned and or preaching, let them know as to WHY you do not partake in such a holiday and or custom, sometimes you can run into the misguided and those who do not know, if possible, even explain the Bible's view if need be.
  25. Thanks
    Thinking reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in Jehovah’s Witnesses Sue FaithLeaks Owners Over Convention Videos   
    4J:
    You seem to get disoriented and confused very easily, about who said what. Your credibility is already shot , with me, irregardless of the credibility of any arguments you may proffer, because of that.

     
    And MY point is there is no one on Earth that has the power to fire the Governing Body for any reason whatsoever ... and I am lamenting that fact ... NOT exulting in it.
    That makes them unaccountable to anyone, and immune to consequences for ANYTHING they do, at least inside the WTB&TS.
    The same thing was true in Jesus' time ... but Jesus himself commanded that Jews "stay with that system", until he himself replaced it.
    The GB is supposed to show mercy to us, but can't, because of policy.
    That does NOT mean we can't be understanding that they are deeply flawed men, trapped in a system they created, and have no idea how to change it.
    "STUFF HAPPENS" (paraphrased)
    Get used to it ... that's the way things REALLY are.
     
     
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.