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Kosonen
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Kosonen reacted to Arauna in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
They got it right...... but 80 years too early. Atheists do not believe there is a God. So they tend to go to a human philosophy to replace God. This is why socialism and its promises of equality for all is so appealing to atheists..... it replaces other human governments with nice promises .. and this is the reason we now see new "rights" for so-called minorities such as LGBTQ, Islam, and every sort of minority in the new collectivist philosophy.......and patriarchs (bible lovers) are seen as historical oppressors. With a majority of people turning atheist and post modern philosophy gaining traction (as in EU and UN) we may soon see a totalitarian type rule with a surveillance system which will end up like the one in China.
Yes..... the socialism part was deceiving.
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Kosonen reacted to Witness in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
This is a side point, but one event can coincide with another. The act of disfellowshipping has experienced a total turnaround in the organization. In 1947, excommunication was taught as having no sound scriptural basis. As time went on, it was adopted as necessary, according to scripture; and gained momentum in its severity as the years passed. Today, it is a hard-core teaching, with hard-core results. How often are individuals reminded not to have any contact with disfellowshipped ones, and now to shun those who are inactive?
@Kosonen's remark brought this to mind when he said,
It really looks like the WT organization by force tried to fit prophecies to events and dates too early before their right time
When asked if I accepted the doctrine of 1914, my answer of “no” immediately brought the judgment that I would be announced as disfellowshipped at the next meeting. This happens on a consistent basis, and to many anointed ones - probably to all of them leaving the organization. There is no sin involved, there is no need to repent before God, but before men holding on to their doctrine. One is considered “apostate” against doctrines not having a sound basis in scripture. Anyone disfellowshipped knows that to JWs, they are viewed as unworthy in God’s sight, having lost the promise of eternal life. This is a “beating down” of the person, and their right to think independently, as the Bereans practiced in Paul’s day.
“Now these were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica. They accepted the message with all eagerness, examining the scriptures every day to see if these things were so.” Acts 17:11
It is a typical hypocritical response by the organization’s leadership, who use this scripture to bring individuals from other religions into the organization.
When reading Kosnen’s comment, Matt 24:48-51 came to mind.
“Who then is the faithful and wise slave whom the master has put in charge of his household slaves to give them their food at the right time? 46 Blessed is that slave whom his master will find so doing when he comes back. 47 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But if that evil slave should say to himself, ‘My master is staying away for a long time,’ 49 and he begins to beat his fellow slaves and eats and drinks with drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and at an hour that he does not know, 51 and will cut him in two and assign his place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth! Matt 24:48-51
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Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
As I remember WT organization teaches that God's kingdom was "born" in 1914 based on Revelation 12: "So down the great dragon+ was hurled, the original serpent,+ the one called Devil+ and Satan,+ who is misleading the entire inhabited earth;+ he was hurled down to the earth,+ and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 I heard a loud voice in heaven say:“Now have come to pass the salvation+ and the power and the Kingdom of our God+ and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!+"
So here I have just recently remarked yet an other discrepancy. The WT teaches that Satan was not exactly in 1914 hurled down to earth, but around 1918 if I remember right. That is because some other calculations with 1260 days and events with WT society, did not start happening in 1914.
This in itself throws doubt on the whole idea about 1914.
It really looks like the WT organization by force tried to fit prophecies to events and dates too early before their right time. The events just do not fit the prophecies in many ways.
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Kosonen reacted to Srecko Sostar in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
Apologize for little late comment about question when Jesus come to be King.
WT Society agreed how Jesus became King in 33 AD. And his enthroning took literal manifestation in Jerusalem. Is it possible that Jesus became King without Heavenly approval? Well, could he become King on Earth but not in Heaven too?
The disciples fail to see that Jesus’ instructions involve Bible prophecy. Later, however, they grasp the fulfillment of Zechariah’s prophecy. He foretold that God’s promised King would come into Jerusalem “humble and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a female donkey.”—Zechariah 9:9. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/jesus/final-ministry/enters-jerusalem-as-king/
It seems how WT GB also failed in interpretation about when Jesus became King. In 33 or in 1914 AD despite their own published books that supports 33 AD. More than this, and his Kingdom was also existed in 33 AD on Earth. Quote from WT publication said: In a very real sense, then, the Kingdom was in their midst. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008012
The King Enters Jerusalem on a Colt
When they got close to Jerusalem and arrived at Bethʹpha·ge on the Mount of Olives,a then Jesus sent two disciples,b 2 saying to them: “Go into the village that is within sight, and you will at once find a donkey tied and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. 3 If someone says anything to you, you must say, ‘The Lord needs them.’ At that he will immediately send them.”4 This actually took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet, who said: 5 “Tell the daughter of Zion: ‘Look! Your king is coming to you,c mild-temperedd and mounted on a donkey, yes, on a colt, the offspring of a beast of burden.’”e6 So the disciples went and did just as Jesus had instructed them.f 7 They brought the donkey and its colt, and they put their outer garments on them, and he sat on them.g 8 Most of the crowd spread their outer garments on the road,h while others were cutting down branches from the trees and spreading them on the road. 9 Moreover, the crowds going ahead of him and those following him kept shouting: “Save, we pray, the Son of David!i Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!j Save him, we pray, in the heights above!”* - Matt 21
PICTURE from WT book - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/jesus/final-ministry/enters-jerusalem-as-king/
In rendering these words of Jesus, a number of careful Bible translations use wording similar to that found in the New World Translation. Some say that the Kingdom is “among you” or “in the midst of you.” How was God’s Kingdom among those people at that time, including the Pharisees? Well, Jesus was the one whom Jehovah God appointed to be the King of the Kingdom. As the King-Designate, Jesus was right in the midst of those people. He taught about the Kingdom of God and even performed miracles, giving them a preview of what that Kingdom would accomplish. In a very real sense, then, the Kingdom was in their midst. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008012
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Kosonen got a reaction from Witness in Do you belive Jesus?
Faith in Jesus is what Jehovah God wants. God's word contrasts that with putting faith in men. Psalms 146:3 Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.
John 3:16 For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son,+ so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.+ 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.+ 18 Whoever exercises faith in him is not to be judged.+ Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God…...35 The Father loves the Son+ and has given all things into his hand.+ 36 The one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life;+ the one who disobeys the Son will not see life,+ but the wrath of God remains upon him.
John 6:28 So they said to him: “What must we do to carry out the works of God?” 29 In answer Jesus said to them: “This is the work of God, that you exercise faith in the one whom he sent.”.....40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life,+ and I will resurrect+ him on the last day.”
John 12:44 However, Jesus called out and said: “Whoever puts faith in me puts faith not only in me but also in him who sent me;+ 45 and whoever sees me sees also the One who sent me.+ 46 I have come as a light into the world,+ so that everyone putting faith in me may not remain in the darkness.+ 47 But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world.+ 48 Whoever disregards me and does not receive my sayings has one to judge him. The word that I have spoken is what will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment means everlasting life.+ So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.
Matthew 11:6 Happy is the one who finds no cause for stumbling in me.”
1 Thessalonians 1:3 for we continually remember your faithful work, your loving labor, and your endurance because of your hope+ in our Lord Jesus Christ in the presence of our God and Father.
Colossians 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love you have for all the holy ones.
Colossians 2:5 Though I am absent in body, I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order+ and the firmness of your faith in Christ.+
6 Therefore, just as you have accepted Christ Jesus the Lord, go on walking in union with him, 7 being rooted and built up in him+ and being stabilized in the faith,+ just as you were taught, and overflowing with thanksgiving.+
Philippians 3: 3 For we are those with the real circumcision,+ we who are rendering sacred service by God’s spirit and boasting in Christ Jesus+ and who do not base our confidence in the flesh.
Philippians 3:8 What is more, I do indeed also consider all things to be loss on account of the excelling value of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have taken the loss of all things and I consider them as a lot of refuse,* that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in union with him, not because of my own righteousness from following the Law, but because of the righteousness that is through faith+ in Christ,+ the righteousness from God based on faith.
Philippians 4:1 Consequently, my brothers whom I love and long for, my joy and crown,+ stand firm+ in this way in the Lord, my beloved ones.
Hebrews 1:1 Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways.+ 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son,
And Jesus asked: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Matthew 24:45.
First of all, this is a question. And of course a faithful slave should not distort Jesus' sayings or ignore any of his sayings. And we would be wise to check with the Holy Scriptures if a slave claiming to be a discreet and faithful slave really teaches what Jesus taught.
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Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
It started mostly in Rutherford's acceptance of conspiratorialist half-truths from some anti-Catholic sources back in 1938. There were strong rumors that the Catholic Church wanted to use the opportunities brought about by the war to control the entire world through a kind of Catholic caliphate. Rutherford could easily tie fascist Italy to the Vatican through Mussolini, and Hitler's concord with the Vatican had already been exposed, too. Communist Russia was not perceived as an "Axis" power of course, as it would become the country that would go on to defeat Hitler almost single-handedly, but joining with the "Allied" powers, to complete it. But he looked to information about how Communist party sources were trying to reach a hand out for peace with the Vatican. And he followed rabid anti-Catholic sources to prove that the Catholic church was looking to rule the entire world.
Therefore, in 1938, in the booklet, "Face the Facts" he predicted that the 'Axis' powers and communists would form a Catholic "combine" to finally take over America and Britain.
When Mussolini marched to Rome to take possession thereof he was an avowed atheist, opposed to God and his kingdom, and would not tolerate anyone who supports God's kingdom or advertises the same. He was then opposed to all religious organizations. But in 1929 Mussolini and the pope, the head of that mighty religious organization, entered into an alliance by which temporal power in Italy was restored to the pope, and Mussolini became a devoted Catholic, and therefore a supporter of religion. Likewise the dictator of the totalitarian rule of Germany has entered into an alliance with the pope, and he is an avowed Catholic and supports the Catholic religion, and protects it within that arbitrary government.
Recently Mr. Forbes, executive secretary of the Communist party, proposed mutual co-operation between Communism and the Roman Catholic Hierarchy in state affairs. In answer thereto the pope, acting through his cardinal and authoritative representative (Verdier), at Paris, made reply to the Communist party in these words: "If this gesture of the outstretched hand from your side expresses the wish to become better acquainted with your Catholic brothers in order to give better respect to the religion which inspires them to their convictions, their feelings, their works, then the church will not refuse to carry out this work of enlightenment and you will recognize that this can contribute greatly to the happiness of all." To such generous offer from the pope the Communist party responded in these words: "The outstretched hand of the Communist party to the Catholic people remains outstretched." (New York Times, July 26, 1938) True, the Catholic Press of America, since the Hierarchy's connection with the Fascists was exposed in Australia, in Seattle, Washington, and in other places, has had much to say about a possible break between the pope and the Fascists. Such publication is merely a political trick to keep the people deceived and in the dark while the Totalitarians march on and seize control of America and England.
The indisputable facts are that the Roman Catholic Hierarchy has stooped wholly to political methods to gain control of the world, and concerning such an honest Catholic of New York has written a book entitled "Rome Stoops to Conquer", and therein submits the proof that Vatican City's chief objective is to rule the world in conjunction with radical powers. The Hierarchy has placed its trusted men in the key positions of political office in practically every nation of the world, which men are first Catholic and, regardless of the just rights of the people, always carry out the will of the Hierarchy in political governmental affairs. These facts, which cannot be disputed, disclose the Roman Catholic Hierarchy's determination to act as a kind of spiritual super-government over the dictators of the world, forming a part of the monstrosity, and which violently opposes Jehovah and his kingdom under Christ Jesus. The monstrosity moves onward! . . .
When the totalitarian Catholic combine gains control of the British Isles, which it is certain to do, then all liberties of the people will be at an end. . . .
The totalitarian combine is going to get control of England and America. You cannot prevent it. Do not try. Your safety is on the Lord's side; but there really will be but a short time that the combine will hold sway, because it is written in the Lord's Word, at 1 Thessalonians 5: 3, that when this crowd says, 'We are now at peace and safety,' the Lord sends sudden destruction upon them, and they are at their wits' end, and they shall find no way of escape.
Rutherford spoke of Armageddon coming against a world of totalitarian nations, and this is what he meant. The totalitarian combine would have already taken over England and America when Armageddon arrives. The nearness of this time was expressed in many ways. One of them, in the same booklet, echoed the Millions campaign, which was NOT just about the great crowd, but about the world in general. This time it was more specifically about the "great crowd" [Jonadabs]. The doctrine had changed so that ONLY the Jonadabs would survive Armageddon.
Would it be Scripturally proper for them to now marry and to begin to rear children? No, is the answer, which is supported by the Scriptures. Referring to the prophetic picture: Noah's sons and their wives had no children before or during the flood, and none were born of them until after the flood was dried up, and the record is that it was two years after the flood before children born are mentioned.. . . Those Jonadabs who now contemplate marriage, it would seem, would do better if they wait a few years, until the fiery storm of Armageddon is gone,. . . The only ones who will survive Armageddon will be God's faithful children . . . . .The kingdom is here, and certain and complete victory will crown the King, Christ Jesus, and those who stand with him. The earth is to be filled with a righteous people, and those faithful Jonadabs now living shall not die, but shall have a part in the performance or work of populating the earth with righteous people, and all these things to the eternal praise of Jehovah and the vindication of his name.
Since 1935, Rutherford had been saying that we were in the time "immediately" before Armageddon, and that it would therefore NOT be scriptural to get married and have children either immediately before or immediately after Armageddon. That this meant a matter of only "months" had been made clear, too. This next quote is from the booklet and talk "Universal War Near" from 1935
. . . during the few remaining months until the breaking of that universal cataclysm the powers that rule the nations of the earth will continue to make treaties and tell the people that by such means they will keep that world peace and bring about prosperity. (Universal War Near, 1935, p. 3, 26-27)
For a few years, the idea had been that there would be NO winners of a war before Armageddon, because nations would keep a tentative peace through treaties until Armageddon broke out. But this had changed by 1938 (above) and by December 1941 the idea that the totalitarian (axis) powers would win had been around for about three years. But only in December 1941 had the idea been added that the totalitarian, axis powers (the Catholic Vatican Nazi Fascist combine) had managed to take over Belgium, France, and others, but would be ready to compromise and therefore not gain full control of America and Britain, but would manage their "win" through the taking away of freedoms.
You'll notice too that the idea of a "new League of Nations" was already in quotes from secular sources.
[December 1, 1941 Watchtower, p.357-362]
It was no longer a full "military" victory to be expected by the king of the north. But the king of the north would be the one to extend its rule over all the nations of the earth.
Note that Rutherford concludes the article the same way. He hasn't really given up on the idea that that totalitarian (Axis) rule would still overrun all the nations of the earth.
Only if the totalitarian rule would overrun all the nations of the earth would it be possible for the cry of Peace and Security to come from the "king of the north" rather than the "king of the south." Therefore, it was earlier in the same article where this had been stated (more than once):
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Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
This claim is about the talk by Knorr in Sept 1942 and the booklet by the same name "Peace - Can It Last?"
Knorr, didn't anticipate it. He knew about the formation of the United Nations because it had already been announced for the past 9 months before the talk. President Roosevelt himself had called it the "United Nations." Knorr even stated in the talk that the name "United Nations" had already been announced by a member of the President's cabinet. Listening to the talk, and reading the booklet, you can see therefore, that this was never a prediction, nor was it presented as a prediction.
It was not spun as a prediction until 1958 when Fred Franz wrote the book "Your Will Be Done On Earth" and this portion implying a prediction was requoted in the 2/1/1960 Watchtower. By July 15, 1960 the claim had become very explicit:
*** w60 7/15 p. 444 par. 19 Staying Awake with the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” ***
. In 1942 the “faithful and discreet slave” guided by Jehovah’s unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up. Such wakefulness was concerning events that unerringly took place three years later. At the 1958 Divine Will International Assembly amazing advance information in connection with Daniel’s prophecy was given about events to occur in the immediate future. Such evidence of spiritual foresight is recorded for us in the book “Your Will Be Done on Earth.” Once again the “faithful and discreet slave” has been tipped off ahead of time for the guidance of all lovers of God. Surely one’s present security depends on his staying awake with the “faithful and discreet slave.”
The Watchtower had been predicting that the NON-democracies, the AXIS powers would win WWII, at least up until 9 months before the talk. But then Knorr had also repeated a prior idea that the war would be stopped by treaties with no real winners. Then by the time of the talk, the idea was that the Vatican would compromise but that the win by the Allies would not last long BECAUSE the cry of peace and security after the war would be the immediate end of peace due to Armageddon being triggered. (using 1 Thessallonians 5). Also, this "win" would be declared by the new TOTALITARIAN world order under the totalitarian armies of the UN. The Watchtower was interpreting this situation to support the idea that it would now only be a matter of a very short time for the Kingdom to take over, compared to the length of the war itself. The idea that Armageddon was only MONTHS away, instead of years, was a common theme for the remainder of the war.
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Kosonen reacted to Arauna in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
If you only knew how many jobs are in religious organizations..... how many schools, day care centres, immigration offices (churcbas make milliions upon millions from the immigration process) and as shareholder in banks....... . The previous Pope resigned because their bank in Italy was caught laundering money internationally.. ..
Jehovah is a perfect time keeper and his "project " to restore the earth (eph 1:9 speaks of the administration of his plan under the kingdom - the sacret secret....).. has a time-line and milestones.
He has given us the seven heads of the beast and shown us what will happen directly after the "perousia" starts. (The 3 and half years fall in this period. ).... and gives an indication when the seventh head of the beast (which is also depicted as the duel horned dragon which speaks like lamb...... will blow life into the image of the beast (which went into abyss and came out again - league of nations which later came up as UN). Later the UN and coalition of nations becomes the 8th king for a short while....
God puts it in the heart of Babylon bedfellows to turn against her. How does the name Babylon fit in with New York? Jehovah always uses the same picture words for certain concepts.
False religion or unfaithful religion is always depicted as a harlot or adulterer
Horns are often rulerships or kings
Beasts depict specific empires
It is part of the time-line but also because these people also needed encouragement in their own time - to see some things going into fulfillment. They do not see the full promise like those when Armageddon comes but they saw things which helped them stay alert and watchful.
Jehovah cares for the beginning and the end of the generation.
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Kosonen reacted to Arauna in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
When the bible indicates that the merchants will cry when all the bedfellows of false religion makes her naked - I guess all the billionaires and stock market whizes will start crying - and there are a few digital moguls in the mix. Lol.
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Kosonen reacted to Arauna in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
We remain ready - whatever happens. But Jehovah gives us enough information to watch the world around us and understand. JWs understood who Babylon the Great was a long time ago and got heated up when certain events happened....... at least they stood on the tower and watched for any sign....they kept on the watch...
I personally have no problem with those who misinterpreted signs before.....no matter how silly...... they remained focussed on serving Jehovah and kept on the watch....... they loved jehovah. That is all that Jehovah sees. Wicked people judge - let them judge - just go on undeterred doing the right things.
I look at world events now and in my mind's eye I say : thank you jehovah for allowing me to see how things MAY unfold. If I die before these come to fruition, I can say that I have seen the events happen in my minds eye - I believed every word in the bible by looking for that which it says may occur.... I stay focussed......to remain ready.
The first thing I will ask when I get a resurrection most probably will be: How did it really happen!.....
They are preparing us for Armageddon. They do not want to cry wolf....... they are very careful now.... the reason being because we are close to world events suddenly turning seriously bad....... too many to mention. To cry wolf at the wrong time will not be in interest of the sheep.
They are right in doing this because when things occur we will recognize the signs. They have showed us from the bible the signs to expect - we know. We need no special interpretations any longer like way back in the past.
Very good point m'dear.
I know I sound like a nutcase sometimes....... but I watch the world closely..... to see where things are leading...... and I see things going on in the world (what world leaders are planning) that is absolutely beyond logical comprehension......and they are moving and pushing the agendas fast.......things are changing fast.
The world we knew a decade ago is fast dissipating. The air we breathe is totally inspired by satan.
It us time now to keep close to Jehovah, read the bible, keep up the preaching and associate with those who love jehovah.
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Kosonen reacted to TrueTomHarley in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
Okay,
I see them. They are still saving you a seat.
We aren’t?
Come on!—is this for real?
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Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
The hurricane, yes, and probably 9-11, too. A friend of mine who left Bethel shortly after 9/11/2001 thought that several of the Governing Body must have been thinking of leaving shortly after the WTC towers fell. He said there was fear in their voices, and a lot more closed-door, "bunker" mentality. I worked in Manhattan (at 30 Rockefeller Plaza) for many years before, during and after the 9-11 event, and there was a similar prevailing fear all over the city. Immediately, you could no longer use most of the extended underground tunnels that very few people knew about around midtown. You could no longer walk through (or under) buildings that had a door you could enter on one block and then out on the next block. Connected with the underground shopping concourses around Rockefeller Center, I could sometimes walk through 5 or 6 of 10 blocks underground, and 3 more blocks through the buildings so that.I would miss any rain or snow or pedestrian traffic.
Hundreds of companies, including my own, looked for office space place in upstate NY, moved data centers outside the vicinity and began immediately moving more personnel and offices to NJ and upstate NY along with new or expanded offices in Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicago, etc. I ended up spending a lot of time in 'Warwick' (Tuxedo Park) just across from where the Watchtower offices are now located, because that's where we worked out our disaster recovery (DR/BC) plans for all our IT data centers. The WT wasn't there at the time, and I refer to the company that had an upstate HQ at the other end of the same lake.
I have no problem with the speculation that the destruction of the symbolic Babylon the Great could occur after a devastating persecution begins. Whether that persecution lasts a literal 3.5 years or more or less is another speculation that could well occur. As @Arauna noted, however, there is no definite placement of a 3.5 year period within the context of the discussion of Babylon the Great. The idea that BtG could be one particular city is not the kind of thing I would look for myself in Revelation, but I understand the appeal of this solution, especially when we consider Revelation does not picture then end of this Great City as the final end of all nations. (So many ongoing sectors of the world continue to mourn her, although we don't know for how long.)
I take a strong interest in the Society's way of explaining it, and I know that it creates a few contradictions, but it still produces a rational set of events in a timeline. I am willing to consider other solutions as speculative possibilities, too.
No doubt, Revelation was written in symbols because the very intent was to fire our imaginations. I think that the symbols are so obvious in most cases that even a non-Christian would understand much of what Revelation's imagery would convey to the Christians who would read it.
I have a preferred speculative way of reading the book of Revelation, too. It would preclude the New York City scenario for some of the reasons I already pointed out, and for reasons I consider even more important. These additional reasons relate to keeping our speculations within the framework of the rest of the Bible. I don't think yours does, but then again, I'm pretty sure you probably wouldn't think that my own framework is correct either.
If I get time tomorrow, I'll explain some of the framework for Revelation that makes sense to me. As I said, it doesn't mean that you are wrong, or the Watchtower is wrong. But it's different enough that I would need to explain it as a foundation, before going on to discuss the specifics of Babylon the Great.
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Kosonen reacted to Arauna in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
Yes- and the name of the city is even more important. As I explained to you earlier . It applies to the time when Babylon was a city state..... after the flood.
It applies to a time when half the world turned against the ONE religion of jehovah god after the flood and refused to spread out and obey Him. Instead they built a tower in opposition to Jehovah with false gods and brought religion and rulership together in a priest-king.
Babylon means confusion....... because jehovah confused their languages and forced them to obey him. People did spread out and took their false religion with them where it proliferated in many forms.
Babylon was a great city.......and her influence regarding religion in opposition to jehovah is still influencing all people on earth in all the false religions which promote teachings which do not honour Jehovah. Now she is called Babylon " the Great". The great confusion.
Important to note: Cities in ancient Babylon were city-states. Religion/superstition ruled and the kings were also high priests of the religion, the servant of the main God of the city. A mixing of religion and politics.
As I explained to you earlier - a conglomerate of governments in the world today have realized that different religions cause wars and division (originally caused by the spreading out of people from Babylon).. This is why there are similar features in the ancient towers and practices all over the world in religion.
At present, the many diverse and even militant religions are causing much devision in the world. So the UN and some religions are now working on one world religion with a new set of morals and only one God will be unveiled..... how far they will get I cannot tell...... but you are right when you say the harlot will ride the red beast..... UN and its supporters.
The harlot (false religions) have been the force behind governments for millenia BUT you may be right...... riding the beast means religion will take the initiative and steer the direction the world is going.
Watch 2020 because this is the beginning efforts of a world religion. Religion is taking the initiative at present and although they are facing sex abuse charges etc...... they are recreating their image to keep the worship of the world focussed on them. Soon she may be riding the beast as a queen- pushing UN agenda. Other religions will have no place in this world.
The prophecies in Revelation come into fulfillment in the "day of jehovah" when events lead up to a world-wide Armageddon. So most of the events we look out for is not based just in one country or a city in one country but a worldwide phenomenon. Rev 1;10
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Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
@Kosonen, I agree with much of what @Arauna has said above but I would consider several different factors that get in the way of the NYC identification for BtG.
For one thing, there is what I already mentioned about the idea that Jehovah would "lead" the WTS out of NYC/BtG for a few extra moments of smooth operation and comfort when this tribulation on NYC begins, but not do the same for all the Circuit Overseers, Elders, pioneers, individual anointed ones, and "rank-and-file" Witness families. It makes Jehovah a "respecter of persons" and it makes it appear that Jehovah wants to protect buildings and physical equipment as somehow more important than lowly individuals. Yet Jehovah sees the "sparrow" fall to the ground.
(1 Corinthians 10:13) . . .No temptation has come upon you except what is common to men. But God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear, but along with the temptation he will also make the way out so that you may be able to endure it.
Why would Jehovah make the way out for some, so many years in advance, but not make the way out for others until a related tribulation is right on top of them? Potentially trapping Witnesses in the worst of all situations for 3.5 years.
I understand how you could still defend against this possible contradiction. After all, a major point of the Olivet sermon (Mt24,Mk13,Lk21) was to get Christians out of Jerusalem in time so that would avoid the greatest part of the tribulation, but not send them out so early that they would suffer for years waiting after fleeing to the mountains of Pella, for example. Jehovah made a way out in this case by opening a "window of opportunity" between the attack in 66 CE, and the destruction in 70 CE (which coincidentally [?] happened to be about 3.5 years). And of course, the cutting short of those days of tribulation was on account of the "chosen ones." You could make an argument that the "chosen ones" do not generally include the anointed or other Witnesses outside of NY headquarters, but especially refers to those "chosen ones" at the headquarters in upstate NY.
Through "eisegesis," it is possible to make almost any historical situation fit a Biblical prophecy when the prophecy is written in symbols, or we are overly anxious to see prophecy fulfilled. You mentioned the fact that the WTS makes most of this prophecy fulfilled 100 years ago. In truth, the WT writers could just as easily have found "significant" fulfillments for these prophecies anywhere between 1799 and 2019. Russell found fulfillments in the 1800's. The WT writers in Rutherford's time latched onto the most dramatic thing that ever happened to the WT organization during the time period of "limbo" between 1914 and 1925. As an example the Watch Tower publications promoted ideas like the following that very year in 1919:
Of course, these writers were "cut from the same cloth" as those who could write the 1917 book "The Finished Mystery" which contains so many outlandish "fulfillments" of prophecy, such as Revelation 14:20 being prophesied in advance as the distance from Brooklyn to Scranton by way of the Lackawana RR station (p.230). This was a book that could literally find some significance in Brother Russell's hemorrhoids (p.54).
Of course, I'm not comparing your idea to the same foolishness produced in "The Finished Mystery." NYC does more than just "symbolize" a commercial center, a financial center, a foreign relations center (UN), a fashion center, an entertainment center. To some extent it's just about every kind of worldly center except a religious center.
My main reason for dismissing the significance of NYC as prophetically significant here, however, is because I don't believe we should pin any of our "end-times" expectations on any specific "knowledge" about anything happening in the world today. That includes anything that the UN says no matter how significant it seems. It also means we should give no particular significance to anything that the Pope says, anything that any world council of churches or any other leaders would say -- if we think it means that the end is somehow more imminent because of anything we might think is a sign matching a prophecy in the Bible.
And that's because Jesus warned us that the end would come at a time when it would surprise us. A thief does not give a sign or warning before breaking into a house, therefore we would expect no sign or advance warning. The parousia will come upon the world while people are still thinking there is peace and security, much like the way life was going on as usual before the Flood, or before fire rained down upon Sodom, as if without warning. The circumstances of this speculation about NYC, according to your own explanation, provides a way of extending the end of the system beyond 3.5 years from now. This creates a problem. It creates a window of opportunity for some to say "the master is delaying" and a temptation to use that time to lord it over their fellow slaves. It creates a window of opportunity for the heart to be tempted into a lull, where the love of a great number of Christians could cool off. Jesus told us that it would come as a surprise for a reason. So that we would be ready at all times, not just trying to get our hearts in shape after we see a significant sign.
Also, you pretty much admitted that this NYC scenario provides "no reason to panic" on the one hand and a reason to warn Witnesses in NYC on the other hand, when this scenario is more widely understood.
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Kosonen reacted to Arauna in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
It uses the illustration of the thief to indicate we do not know the day -this will be a surprise.
However, in Noah's day they saw him building the ark . Laughed at him when he preached to them about the flood. There were visible signs that something was going to happen. ..... they went on with their eating, drinking, marrying .... with normal life until the day came. Jesus co pares the perousia with this.
He also compares it to a pregnant woman. This indicates one sees the sign of the pregnancy but the day one does not know of the actual birth. The bigger the stomach gets the closer one knows it is. So one knows the inevitable is here but jne still does not know the hour.
Then there is the fig tree .... when you see the flowers one knows the fruits will be coming.... one sees them growing and have an idea they will ripen soon.
The bible has many if these illustrations- - to deny their implications is basically putting your own interpretation on the bible. They are clear and understandable.
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Kosonen reacted to Melinda Mills in WT: Harmful effects from character development
At some point over the years they got both character development and the need to be zealous out of balance, emphasing one to the detriment of the other, whereas the scriptures clearly show we need them both. Jesus was zealous and he was gentle. Zeal for God' house "ate him up".
(John 2:16, 17) 16 And he said to those selling the doves: “Take these things away from here! Stop making the house of my Father a house of commerce!” 17 His disciples recalled that it is written: “The zeal for your house will consume me.”
This scripture shows he was gentle and considerate. We know hundreds of other instances where he showed gentleness, consideration and deep love for people. For example when he healed the death man, when he healed the woman with the flow of blood, and he said he felt love for the righteous man who wanted to know what else he had to do to please God.
(Matthew 12:18-21) 18 “Look! My servant whom I chose, my beloved, whom I have approved! I will put my spirit upon him, and what justice is he will make clear to the nations. 19 He will not quarrel nor cry aloud, nor will anyone hear his voice in the main streets. 20 No bruised reed will he crush, and no smoldering wick will he extinguish, until he brings justice with success. 21 Indeed, in his name nations will hope.”
** w99 7/1 p. 5 How Can Jesus Change Your Life? ***
Not only did Jesus teach profound truths about how to show love but he also practiced what he taught. For example, he put the interests of others ahead of his own. One day Jesus and his disciples were so busy helping people that they had no time even to eat a meal. Jesus saw the need for his disciples to rest up a bit, and he took them to a lonely place. But when they got there, they found a crowd waiting for them. How would you have responded upon seeing a crowd who expected you to work when you felt that you needed a little break? Well, Jesus “was moved with pity for them” and “started to teach them many things.” (Mark 6:34) This concern for others always moved Jesus to assist them.
That is the spirit that moves us to go to our Bible studies even when something special comes up that we want to do. We must work with the angels and assist those who need the good news.
Paul, the best example of a person who followed Jesus in an exemplary way and was used by Jesus to write instructions for us, said he was completely spent in doing God's will. We was not wishy washy.
(Philippians 2:17) 17 However, even if I am being poured out like a drink offering on the sacrifice and the holy service to which your faith has led you, I am glad and I rejoice with all of you.
Read Romans 14 and see he had a good conscience in everything. Numerous other scriptures show his parent-like qualities, e.g. like a nursing mother, etc. These qualities are easy to find throughout his letters. The fact that he was beloved by the brothers shows he had a beautiful Christ-like personality (nevermind that false brothers were jealous and lied about it).
It is all easy to understand and research.
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Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.
@Arauna I know that some amount of members of "christian" and muslim religions practise spiritism and sorcery, just as some amount of their members are stealing, sexually immoral and commiting other various sins. But the point is that both those religions in general condemn those sins including spiritism.
But who is the biggest proponet of moral decay in today's world? Which organized group or society has been directly promoting sin the past 100 year? That would be the mother of all disgusting things. Can you tell which society has been spearheading to normalize homosexuality and other disgusting sins the past 100 years?
It is surely not the religions. But they have to different degrees also fallen for the presure from Babylon the Great.
So the religions are not the source of all the disgusting things but, they have fallen victims to Babylon the Great to different degrees.
The Bible talks about many different symbolic prostitutes. So we have to figure out what each represent. Individual christians are also warned in James 4:4:
Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God.
An other characteristic of Babylon the Great is according to Rev. 18:24 that it is the cause of wars and killings of christians: "Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
Well during our life time we have not seen any serious mass killings of christians in the Western world. But the Revelation book warns that an hour of testing will finally come over the whole earth. Rev 3:10. Then it will become more evident who and what Babylon the Great represent.
But knowing who are stoking war today help us already to identify Babylon the Great. Check this article published yesterday on a news site for private investors. That contains clues to identify Babylon the Great.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/war-pigs-are-finally-revealing-themselves-and-just-beginning
Acts 26:14 "And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice say to me in the Hebrew language: ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? To keep kicking against the goads* makes it hard for you.’ 15 But I said: ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said: ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet. This is why I have appeared to you, to choose you as a servant and a witness both of things you have seen and things I will make you see respecting me.+ 17 And I will rescue you from this people and from the nations, to whom I am sending you+ 18 to open their eyes,+ to turn them from darkness+ to light+ and from the authority of Satan+ to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins+ and an inheritance among those sanctified by their faith in me.’"
Tom Herry what do you say about that?
Here some more interesting things conserning apostle Paul.
Galatians 1:11 For I want you to know, brothers, that the good news I declared to you is not of human origin;+ 12 for neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it was through a revelation by Jesus Christ.
Galatians 2:8 for the one who empowered Peter for an apostleship to those who are circumcised also empowered me for those who are of the nations
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Kosonen reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914
Quote @Anna " I wonder what would cause someone to actually say “this is not what I have signed up for”. Maybe you have a few ideas? "
Child Sexual Abuse / Paedophilia hidden within the JW Org.
Victims of CSA having been disfellowshipped for complaining to Elders.
Victims of CSA being shunned for going outside the Org for help.
Immoral, dishonest lawyers being used by the GB to tell lies in court cases.
The GB exalting themselves above the other Anointed. As it seems the complete remnant was the F&DS but now it's only those 8 Men.
The GB suggesting that the rest of the Anointed 'keep quiet and do as they are told' by the GB / Elders of congregations.
The failed 'prophecies' of the JW Org. (1975 being one)
The misuse of scriptures. Superior Authorities being one.
The hypocrisy of the GB / Org advising people to read their own Bible, BUT not to have their own thoughts on scriptures.
The statement by one of the GB that 'God and Jesus Christ trusts us' whilst admitting finally that they are NOT inspired and do get things wrong.
The list could be endless of course, as the GB are so puffed up with themselves, and make so many stupid videos and make up new rules as they go along. One such, that if a man and a woman spend a night in the same house they will be accused of fornication.... Strange in this day and age but if two men or two women spend a night in the same house I doubt they will be accused of homosexuality.
And then it seems they are begging kids to give their ice cream money to the Org, whilst the Org is running big business project under different names. IBSA Properties London is one of them.
Enough for now Anna ?
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Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in WT: The most important thing for Jehovah is to sanctify himself.
@b4ucuhear
You quoted 1John 5:3 "For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments;+ and yet his commandments are not burdensome,"
I remember when I for the first time learned about this scripture. I thought, oh that is easy, you don't need to have any special feeling (love), just do it! Preach, go to meetings, avoid serious sins, and try to do all the things WT org suggests. By that I thought I had fulfilled the most important commandment in the Bible to "love Jehovah your God from all your heart, soul and strength". That was what I tried to do more than 15 year from my baptism. I was pioneer for 5 years, ministerial servant, and I had a lot of assignments in the congregation. My faith was based on performing and performance. Now thinking back to that, I realize that I was very active but it was very superficial. Instead of feeling love for God my worship was in fact based on trying to be righteous. I had mistaken that to be love for God in its entirety. Sadly during those years my prayers were very short, and often I could not come with many things to pray about. And I was so busy with keeping up with all what was imposed by the WT organization that I had not time to seriously read the Bible. It was like a choice between reading the Bible or reading the literature and preparing for meetings and for talks.
So I think there are many JWs out there like me who have misunderstood 1John 5:3. But later when I begun diligently prayerfully to read the Bible with the aim of making further spiritual progress I remarked countless scriptures about love for Jehovah and Jesus and fellow humans and even enemies. And I remarked scriptures that showed what love is. Finally I understood that love is a feeling and when it is accompanied by accurate knowledge it motivates to do fine works that please God and rejoice people.
True you can like a machine do fine works, and be quite righteous. But it will be like forced. Probably people will remark in that case that there is not love behind all those works. Such a person might well appear stressed even irritable doing all those works for God and surrounding people.
Apostle Paul had understood that there is a problem when good works are done without the right feeling, the feeling of love. He writes:
1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge,+ and if I have all the faith so as to move* mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.*+ 3 And if I give all my belongings to feed others,+ and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love,+ I do not benefit at all.
4 Love+ is patient*+ and kind.+ Love is not jealous.+ It does not brag, does not get puffed up,+ 5 does not behave indecently,*+ does not look for its own interests,+ does not become provoked.+ It does not keep account of the injury.*+ 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness,+ but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things,+ believes all things,+ hopes all things,+ endures all things.+
8 Love never fails."
To make it even easier to understand we could replace Paul's wording 'love is' by when 'you feel love'.
Then it would read:
When you feel love you are patient and kind. When you feel love you are not jealous. When you feel love you don't feel for bragging, and you not get puffed up,+ 5 and when you feel love you don't behave indecently,*and when you love you don't not look for your own interests, and you don't become provoked. When you love you don't bother to keep account of the injury.* 6 when you have the feeling of love you can't rejoice over unrighteousness, but you will rejoice with the truth. 7 When you love you bear all things, believe all things, hope all things, endure all things.
And here is an other scripture showing that love really is a feeling.
1Peter 4:8 "Above all things, have intense love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins."
Is it not evident that as soon as you feel love to somebody you don't bother to remember of a fellow person's sins.
It has been said that it is thanks to love we will be able to endure and remain faithful to God. In this case specifically the feeling of love is the vital force that enables endurance.
So as conclusion to this we need to cultivate the feeling of love so that it would abound in us and have accurate knowledge so we could project that feeling in a right way.
Philippians 1:8 "For God is my witness of how I am longing for all of you with such tender affection as Christ Jesus has. 9 And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; 10 that you may make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not stumbling others up to the day of Christ; 11 and that you may be filled with righteous fruit, which is through Jesus Christ, to God’s glory and praise."
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Kosonen reacted to Witness in 1914
Well, it was Jesus who spoke to Paul, twice:
As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink" Acts 9:3-9
It was Jesus who chose his apostles, Paul being one of the them.
One more time that we KNOW of, Jesus spoke to Paul:
"And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." 2 Cor 12:7-9
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Kosonen got a reaction from Shiwiii in More emphasis on good news about Jesus Christ
Yes, you are diminishing Jesus, because that is where the WT leads you into. They have tricked you into diminishing Jesus. And I do my best to correct your thinking.
A common opinion among Jehovah's witnesses is that all glory and honor should go to Jehovah God, even for all Jesus did for us. But that is not scriptural. And WT quote so much from the Old Testament that confuse JWs to fully appreciate Jesus. WT quotes old testament where it says that Jehovah God requires exclusive devotion and that Jehovah God will not share his glory with anyone.
Too strict application of these scriptures blocks JWs minds to understand that we should honor and love Jesus after he suffered a sacrificial death on the torture stake. JWs usually think that all the glory for our salvation should go only to Jehovah. But that is not really the case. Because to be fair Jehovah God himself now wants that all, including angels should appreciate what Jesus accomplished by giving his life as a sacrifice in a very difficult and painful way.
Because Jehovah God is a fair God he wants that Jesus gets a part of the credit for saving mankind.
That is why Jehovah God elevated Jesus to a higher position after he had suffered. And now God wants that people thank both Him and his Son Jesus for salvation. Here are the best scriptures I could find about that in the Bible. Unfortunately the WT has not been able to teach these truths effectively. Instead as I already wrote JWs think that all the glory for ransom should go to Jehovah God.
John 5:22 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,& 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
Psalms 2:12 Honor* the son, or God* will become indignant
And you will perish from the way,
Revelation 5:12,13 11 And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads* and thousands of thousands, and they were saying with a loud voice: “The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”
And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.”
Revelation 7:10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne,+ and to the Lamb.”
Phi 2:8 More than that, when he came as a man,* he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake.
9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name,+ 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Revelation 5:8 When he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb,
Hebrews 1:6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”
Revelation 1:5 To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.
This does not make Jesus equal to Jehovah. Jehovah God is and will always remain the creator and eternal without begining. And He should be respected as such. But conserning the salvation of mankind, here Jehovah God is clearly not taking all the credit for himself. Instead he wants that his son Jesus gets some serious credit for that. And that is fair, because Jesus suffered tremendously in giving his life as a sacrifice for our sins. Surely all angels in heaven were happy that Jesus took this assignment. Otherwise some other angel would have been asked to do it, I suppose.
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Kosonen got a reaction from Shiwiii in More emphasis on good news about Jesus Christ
Very simply put, for Jehovah's witnesses 'good news' is about the everlasting life on earth in a coming paradise. That is the first thing Jehovah's witnesses tell people while preaching. And then secondly that Jesus will rule the earth under 1000 years. That is also what Jehovah's witnesses usually think of very much and they wait eagerly for Armageddon and wish that this would come as soon as possible. I know that, I used to think like that, just waiting for those blessings to come.
But I had for a long time not fully understood nor appreciated what the 'good news', the gospel is about. Based on one scripture Matthew 24:14 it seemed to be only about God's kingdom, a new government for the earth from God. That is the impression you easily get if you only read Matthew 24:14.
But to really understand what is God's kingdom we have to almost equate that with Jesus. That is evident from for example the following scriptures:
Jesus said referring to himself in Luke 17:21 For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.”
Mark 9:1 Furthermore, he said to them: “Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who will not taste death at all until first they see the Kingdom of God already having come in power.”+ 2 Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and John along and led them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them;
And apostle Paul declared the Good news about God's kingdom like this on one occasion
Acts 17:30,31.”True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance; but now he is declaring to all people everywhere that they should repent. Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”
And the following scriptures give more evidence about the fact that the 'good news' that would be preached to the most distant part of the earth would be very much about Jesus personally, that he died as a sacrifice for people's sins and that people could now be forgiven their sins and get the gift of eternal life from God and that Jesus was resurrected and would come back to judge the wicked and be king over the whole earth.
So here is a compilation of scriptures that tell how much the preaching message was about Jesus.
Acts 1:8 "But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part* of the earth.”
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ, the Son of God:
2 Cor 1;19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you through us
2 Thess 1:8 the good news about our Lord Jesus.
1 Thess 3:2 and we sent Timothy, our brother and God’s minister* in the good news about the Christ
Eph 3:8 so that I should declare to the nations the good news about the unfathomable riches of the Christ
Col 4:3 3 At the same time, pray also for us, that God may open a door for the word so that we can declare the sacred secret about the Christ, for which I am in prison bonds,
1 Cor 1:23 but we preach Christ executed on the stake, to the Jews a cause for stumbling but to the nations foolishness.
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all*—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.
Phil 1:15,16 True, some are preaching the Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter are proclaiming the Christ out of love, for they know that I have been appointed to defend the good news;
2 Cor 4:4,5 the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God,...For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord
2 Cor 5:18,19 But all things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of the reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was by means of Christ reconciling a world to himself, not counting their offenses against them, and he entrusted to us the message of the reconciliation.
2 Cor 10:14 Really, we are not overextending ourselves as if we did not reach you, for we were the first to reach as far as you with the good news about the Christ.
1 Cor 9:12 but we are enduring all things so that we might not in any way hinder the good news about the Christ
Rom 1:1 Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus and called to be an apostle, set apart for God’s good news, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son…9 For God, to whom I render sacred service with my spirit in connection with the good news about his Son,
Rom 15:19 I have thoroughly preached the good news about the Christ.
Rom 16:25 Now to Him who can make you firm according to the good news I declare and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the sacred secret that has been kept in silence for long-lasting times 26 but has now been made manifest* and has been made known through the prophetic Scriptures among all the nations according to the command of the everlasting God to promote obedience by faith;
Acts 5:42 And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.
Acts 11:20 and began talking to the Greek-speaking people, declaring the good news of the Lord Jesus.
Revelation 19:10 ….. I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning Jesus. Worship God! For the witness concerning Jesus is what inspires prophecy.”
Revelation 12:17 ...who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus.
Revelation 20:4 Yes, I saw the souls* of those executed* for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God,
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Kosonen reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914
Was in the Jan 2016 WT, but here is the latest, Jan 2020 basically saying the same thing in par 7, as the 2016 WT
Thank you @Anna for sharing this information. Two points.
1. JEHOVAH foretold about our time: “Ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: ‘We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.’” (Zech. 8:23) The “Jew” here represents those whom God has anointed by holy spirit. They are also called “the Israel of God.” (Gal. 6:16) The “ten men” represent those who have the hope of living forever on earth. They know that Jehovah has blessed this group of anointed ones and feel that it is an honor to worship him along with them.
How long have i been saying this on this forum ? Long before this was available in print. BUT the JEW is not the GB or its Writing department.
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2. 7 Anointed Christians do not feel that they should spend time only with other anointed ones, as if they were members of an exclusive club. They do not search out other anointed ones, hoping to discuss their anointing with them or to form private groups for Bible study. (Gal. 1:15-17) The congregation would not be united if anointed ones did those things. They would be working against the holy spirit, which helps God’s people to have peace and unity
Your GB are frightened. And what right do your GB have to tell other Anointed that they would be 'working against the holy spirit' ?
This shows exactly how the GB are exalting themselves. They think they have the right to tell other Anointed what to do and what not to do.
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Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914
I understand this is an interesting question. But we should take apostle Paul's letters as God's word because he was an apostle appointed by Jesus directly and apostle Paul was undoubtedly lead by God's spirit while serving God and Christ and working to help early Christians to progress spiritually. Surely Jesus and God helped Paul to write good letters we can read and learn from today.
Maybe our culture deems his way of expressing to be blunt. But I think that is only due to our culture. May be we are too polite? I have heard that even today Israelis in Israel are not so cautious when they speak as people in many parts of Europe, North America and Asia. But my mother tongue is Finnish and when I read apostle Pauls letters in Finnish his blunt way does not disturb me. But when I have read in English I have felt like he is complaining too much. But in Finnish I don't get that feeling. So I have switched to reading the Bible in Finnish. Finnish people are quite good at finding faults and telling that without finesse. So that maybe the cause.
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Kosonen reacted to Arauna in WT: The most important thing for Jehovah is to sanctify himself.
While individuals can be happy in this world because they draw close to God and experience his approval, the entire creation will only in future be really happy and thus bring glory to God by living according to his laws of love as he originally planned.
So true, each person must realize they cannot step into the space of another person and violate his rights. Self-sacrificing love (not only love) can do this. When I care more for you than myself and you care more for me than yourself..... this way of thinking will shift the entire societies' outlook on life.
At present, people who really show this kind of love are viewed as weak and most people think they are impractical - especially when it comes to asserting yourself, defence etc.
A wonderful thought. .... and same love for all neighbours. Soon all Christians will be tested for our love for God...... as this world becomes more wicked we will be forced to compromise on those very laws/ principles given byJehovah by condoning immoral practices which have become acceptable to the world.