Equivocation

@Srecko Sostar I see why he asked you both those questions, it was based on not why us Jehovah's Witnesses use a translation that omits the verses in question, but rather, to make a distinction between people who knows about what is in the inspired text and what is not in the inspired text. So, since both you and @Patiently waiting for Truth are former Jehovah's Witnesses, even Witness - those were got ‘cha questions, this is why I said to @Patiently waiting for Truth he technically entrapped you both into Textual questions.
Space Merchant said -
NOTE: Jehovah's Witnesses were spoken of as committing various errors because of their New World Translation (NWT) of the Bible, and they teach that their action on this was because the errors were considered not inspired, hence 2 Timothy 3:16 (All scripture is given by inspiration of God). Not only they were spoken of as removing part of verses, but in their translation, removing a verse/passage entirely.
The answer to that note is: Those who consider later additions in the Scriptures, the majority, to be true, but in reality, to a degree they’re in error/incorrect. This accusation is prominently from Triune Believers, Preachers, and of course, Property Preachers since they were mentioned here. Those images, which he said, he pulled from the apostate website known as JWfacts concerning the NWT. The only reason the NWT is talked down by them is because it was produced by Jehovah's Witnesses, reasons why the JWFacts images compare other translations to give the reader an idea, in their eyes, why Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong. In reality, most people we come into contact who knows the history about the Bible, are aware about omitted verses and understand as to why we didn’t include the verse in the NWT.
His first question - 
The answer to that is that we are not in the wrong, same with the majority. He said "Textual Analytics” and “Hermeneutics” so that plays a part in the questions asked and gives one an idea as to what he is attempting to do by asking you.
John 7:53-8:11 isn’t inspired text - The Adulterous Woman (Pericope de Adultera) - John7:53–8:11 isn't Bible Canon/ is unauthentic, making it, viewed by most, as spurious and false; an exaggerated story. From what I’ve gathered, there are 267 Greek manuscripts, which are the earliest versions, and are considered the most important by Textual Analysts and or those who follow and are well-versed in Textual Criticism, would point out that none of those 267 contain this passage about the Adulterous Woman. Newer Bible translations that were compiled, and wrote after the more ancient manuscripts were discovered, either omit/remove the passage or add a note or reference along with the passage, stating it was not found in the more ancient manuscripts.
Like this passage, this is the same case for Mark 15:28 and Luke 17:36. Verses, such as Matthew 18:11; 23:14; Luke 17:36 are missing in the NWT used by Jehovah’s Witnesses. These verses are, as pointed out, not in the Common Bible. The reason is because these verses do not belong in the Bible even though many older translations included them. The original manuscripts of the “New Testament” books (the Christian Greek Scriptures) are not available today for use by translators. No one has discovered a Bible book autographed, as it were, by the apostles Paul, John, or others. Yet it is evident that soon after the originals were written, copies began to be made for use by the early Christians. The later copies, those farthest from the originals, tended to have more mistakes, not to mention the weak evidence regarding these types of verses - which brings us to the verses in question.
@Patiently waiting for Truth It is only strange at face value, but if you paid attention as to why he even brought up Textual Analytics, the answer would have been obvious, even if the parts were taken from another book to be “added” elsewhere, it is uninspired.
Same thing with Revelation 1:11, which it was “changed” to make it seem as though Jesus Christ is God, in the NWT and some Bibles, you see the original compared to the changed verse, the image displays that perfectly.
Space Merchant’s 2nd question is
Also, they were spoken of as in error for verses like Acts 7:59, 60 and the verses in Matthew, it was even addressed here - [2] Why did the Jehovah's Witnesses make this change to the 2 verses?
The answer to that is there wasn’t much of a change, like the first question. The argument was pushed by those who believe Jesus is God and since those images are from former Jehovah’s Witnesses, it looks as though they share that same view because of the word “God” which was added to the verse. The fact it is nowhere to be found in the NWT, resulted in the heavy criticism from Triune believers and ExJWs.
Those 2 questions were relatively easy. Seeing that no one was going to answer that, I just decided to say something. I guess you can say I did a solid for both of you.

John Butler was removed and BANNED from this forum. He wa not able to return as john Butler because he was blocked completely. His name and his email were both blocked. He was never given a fair hearing, he was just disfellowshipped from this forum. That is how he knows this forum is run by JW Elders. Why else would he have been unfairly removed ?
So, John Butler had to return under a different name, not by choice. And he had to refuse to say if he was john Butler under fear that he would be removed again. So, it was not John butler's choice and not his fault, it was the Elders that run this forum that were totally unfair. Now you decide if i am John Butler, for your own satisfaction. 

https://www.nhregister.com/shoreline/article/Officials-Waterford-Jehovah-Witness-building-16377704.php
Officials: Waterford Jehovah Witness building damaged in blaze.  
Aug. 10, 2021Updated: Aug. 10, 2021 5:42 p.m. WATERFORD — Local officials are investigating the cause of a fire late Monday at the Kingdom Hall Jehovah Witness building.
Director of Fire Services Michael Howley said a neighbor first noticed the fire outside the structure, which is located at 57 Clark Lane, around 9 p.m. Monday.
 

This is in regards to JW church burnings, not the historical church burnings of Canada pertaining to Indigenous peoples, children. The ongoing debate is outside of religious talk, more so on history, granted many people paint ALL Canadians as the bad guy regarding this.
 
That being said, the debate is historical based, mainly when you're dealing with Centrist.

Hello  Equivocation,
If you are preaching the "good news" around the world, why did Jesus say these words...
"When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel Matt 10:23 before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:23
 
 
 

I don't believe we've taken Romans 13 out of context, we do follow laws, but remember, laws and everything pertaining to it varies in different States/Countries, for some actions in, let's say New York City, isn't the same in New Jersey or Florida, vs. some states in the United States vs what you have in the United Kingdom, for if I am not mistaken, variation of laws and rules in different parts of the UK.
As for Romans 13:1-2 (I made this comment a while back on a different forums) - 
An expression at Romans 13 : 1 designating human governmental authorities. That scripture has been variously rendered :  “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.” (NW) “Let every subject be obedient to the ruling authorities, for there is no authority not under God’s control, and under His control the existing authorities have been constituted.” We/Everyone must obey the state authorities, for no authority exists without God’s permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God.
Jehovah God, though not originating them (compare Mt 4 : 8, 9; 1Jo 5 : 19; Re 13 : 1, 2), has allowed man’s governmental authorities to come into existence, and they continue to exist by his permission. However, when he chooses to do so, Jehovah can remove, direct, or control such authorities in order to accomplish his will. The prophet Daniel declared regarding Jehovah :  “He is changing times and seasons, removing kings and setting up kings.” (Da 2 : 21) And Proverbs 21 : 1 says :  “A king’s heart is as streams of water in the hand of Jehovah. Everywhere that he delights to, he turns it.”— rf. Ne 2 : 3-6; Es 6 : 1-11.
There is Reasons for Christian Subjection
There being no reason for Christians to set themselves in opposition to an arrangement that God has permitted, they have good reason to be in subjection to the superior authorities. Governmental rulers, though they may be corrupt personally, would not normally punish others for doing good, that is, for adhering to the law of the land, for every state/country have different laws; a few that are identical. But a person who engages in thievery, murder, or other lawless acts could expect an adverse judgment from the ruling authority. One guilty of deliberate murder, for instance, might be executed for his crime. Since God authorized capital punishment for murderers after the Flood (Genesis 9 : 6), the human authority, by executing the lawbreaker, would be acting as God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad. Romans 13 : 2-4; Titus 3 : 1; 1 Peter 2 : 11-17.
Christian subjection to the superior authorities is not based merely on their ability to punish evildoers. With a Christian, it becomes a matter of conscience. He is submissive to human authorities because he recognizes that this is in harmony with God’s will. (Romans 13 : 5; 1 Peter 2 : 13-15) Therefore, subjection to the superior authorities—to world based political authorities—could never be absolute. It would be impossible for a Christian to preserve a good conscience and do the divine will if he broke God’s law because that is what the political authority demanded. For this reason, subjection to superior authorities must always be viewed in the light of the apostles’ statement to the Jewish Sanhedrin - We must obey God as ruler rather than men.” Acts 5 : 29.
Since the governmental authorities render valuable services to ensure the safety, security, and welfare of their subjects, they are entitled to taxes and tribute in compensation for their services. The governmental authorities can be termed God’s public servants in the sense that they provide beneficial services. (Romans 13 : 6, 7) At times such services have directly assisted God’s servants, as when King Cyrus made it possible for the Jews to return to Judah and Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. (2 Chronicles 36 : 22, 23; Ezra 1 : 1-4) Often the benefits are those shared by all from the proper functioning of the authorities. These would include the maintenance of a legal system to which persons can appeal for justice, protection from criminals and from illegal mobs, and so forth. Php. 1 : 7; Acts 21 : 30-32; 23 : 12-32.
Of course, a ruler who misuses his authority is accountable to God. Wrote the apostle Paul -   “Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written -   ‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.’” - Roman 12 : 19; Ecclesiastes 5 : 8.
As for the Locust bit, if I were you, I would check out the references, for it better helps to understand it. If I remember correctly, Witness argument was that the Locust did not represent the Anointed. If the thread you are talking about where SM and Witness were in a Kickboxing match about, those statements made vs what you mention now might be contradictive.
As for your 2 points:
That is just two examples of MISUSE of scripture (or lies) from the Watchtower / JW Org / GB / Leaders.
I don't think there was a misuse of Scriptures, mainly if you read between the lines. So us being in subjection to the law has not changed, in fact, people we minister to recognizes that because they are aware of authorities and God's view of things.
So, if you condemn other religions for misuse of scripture, why do you not also condemn JWs ?
 
He isn't talking about Religion, he is talking about groups, and often times they preach that God creates evil, resulting in people blaming God for creating badness and or the death of loved ones, and other problems in the world. Verses often used for example would be Habakkuk 1:5-11. 
We preach that God does not create evil, in fact, we often use James 1:13, to show people that God is not reasonable for these bad things.
We also do not use forged or not inspired text, this is why SM essentially "entrapped" you with "Textual Criticism-sque" questions. In his eyes, he practically baited indirectly baited you into saying something about omitted verses, which allowed him to prove his point about omitted verses and former JWs.
He didn't condemn us because he knows we already know the answer to both those questions, that is why no one said anything and just watched - it was a clever move. Just to help you and Srecko out, I'll answer both because for him, he knew both of you would avoid answering.
 

It still does not excuse the New Thought slander. I mean, you did cite Restorationism yourself.
That being said, Basic knowledge in regards to the Bible and the history of Christianity, we can stick with that, especially concerning JWs - we can go with the Bible first. And the fact you bring this up, reminds me of what you stated a while back regarding the Jehovah's Witnesses version of the Bible concerning error - I guess we can start with that, with just 2 questions.
My response to you:
NOTE: Jehovah's Witnesses were spoken of as committing various errors because of their New World Translation (NWT) of the Bible, and they teach that their action on this was because the errors were considered not inspired, hence 2 Timothy 3:16 (All scripture is given by inspiration of God). Not only they were spoken of as removing part of verses, but in their translation, removing a verse/passage entirely.
Concerning errors -  [1] can you explain to me why the Jehovah's Witnesses removed Gospel of John 7:53–8:11 from their translation of the Bible and some have not? Let alone change parts (Partial Verses Omitted) of a verse?
That passage isn't the only example, but we have a few others, as seen below:


 
 
Also they were spoken of as in error for verses like Acts 7:59, 60 and the verses in Matthew, it was even addressed here - 
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/161040/acts-7-59
[2] Why did the Jehovah's Witnesses make this change to the 2 verses?
 

 
 

@Patiently waiting for Truth You essentially initiated the debate, so hold to that respect. But I see you are attempting to avoid debate by trying to bring this old game up, JB.
 
But since you asked for it, why not? Let's go through some receipts:

As for evidence, there are several examples. @TrueTomHarley and you were going about Watchtower religious leaders, governing body, where which Tom coined if "Are you sure you are not John Butler" you brushed it off, stating what he said was rubbish, adding to the fact, Tom would be above that, thus denied it.
 
Even here

Both you and John Butler often speak of the same thing in the same patterns concerning WT, GB, CSA, and both of you always have a negative reaction to @Anna, @TrueTomHarley, @Arauna. Not only the mention of such, but also the same mannerism, and the reaction towards from @Witness and @Srecko Sostar is often not the same.
If you haven't noticed, the meme you reacted to, was a lowkey test. Which had nothing to do with race, you you claim racism. Butler did the same thing with the evidence/facts provided by the FBI concerning Child Sex Abuse regarding the demographics of the abuser, going as far as to even post a video of old school Hip-Hop. When can called out for purposely angering a Teenaged Jehovah's Witnesses, he got angry (this resulted in John essentially crying to Admin to do something)
 


Which is equated to the recent one as seen below

 
The irony is, the only person who is aware I am Black, or as you say "a man of colour" was Allen, Tom and John Butler, but only Butler was the one to constantly bring it up In fact, only John brings up that TERM as shown here in the search history - https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/search/?q="man of colour"&quick=1
The irony is it was only directed to me alone. The first time you mentioned it, you put heavy emphasis on this notation as shown below:

 
You angered @Equivocation a while back when using Ebonics and mocked his uncle, who isn't a Jehovah's Witness, but helps them, thus you past judgment, to the point you cried out to Admin when Srecko or Witness didn't come to help you, this resulted in Admin shutting down the thread, and to @Equivocation's credit, if he is asked of what happen, I am sure, him, being a Jehovah's Witness, will recall said account.
Then we have @JW Insider raising suspicion of you being him.

In that thread, we see you showed no reaction to @JW Insider. To which you later went on a rant regarding Billy The Kid in this shared link [JW Insider connecting the dots]' Even Harley called it out.
@Anna even got on into this as shown here

Even to her, no reaction, for as pointed out, your reaction are somewhat spontaneous depending on who said it and how:

 
 
There is more, but I will leave it at that so in regards to your questions
Known because I was among the early persons who know about the situation with Billy, only JWI committed to deducing it when you on several occasions denied it, this also goes for any allusions.
You did, @TrueTomHarley was among the first to mention that, Allen, Billy, etc. You even attest to making a remark as to people who assumed you to be him, and we can see that in both your spontaneous reaction, despite claims. This is also evident to the mannerism as shown above. At one point even @Witness was accused of being Butler, but that was false due to the fact her mannerism differ from yours/JB.
You even speak of yourself in 3rd Person, as is hold an legitimate defense if John Butler is coined by anyone whom you at times do not agree with.
Need I say more? - God is witness.
Oh and yes - there is more, but I drop the mic to what is stated above.
That being said, let's also not forget @Srecko Sostar called you out as John - 
 
Same person, yet wears a different mask, in the words of Butler - 

@Thinking's point was some things can easily be made a false rumor. No one is oblivious to child sex abuse at all and it is very unfortunate that in an imperfect world people act out their sin. So regarding CSA, anyone can take a story, and mold it into something else. Since we are all mature here, the truth of the matter is in today's world anything about sexual relations can be weaponized, used as a tool to commit harm and or injury. Sadly, this is the case with child sex abuse too. This is why it is important for guardians and or parents to not only talk to their kids about the dangers, but how to protect themselves. I mean, child sex abuse has always been talked about over and over and over again on this forums, but rarely do people take action on the matter, especially the ones who constantly bring it up, sometimes without warning. I'm sure you have access to various social media, by not teach and explain to people how to protect their children instead of being this way - I mean, you did bring up CSA&N a while back, why not apply their teaching?
I dislike child sex abuse, and I am sure you dislike it as much as I do, but taking steps to help, reach one, teach one is beneficial. So Splane is correct on false rumors. Because anyone can take a story and make it apocryphal right out of the gate before any facts are gathered - something of which was done with the Royal Commission.
 
 

@Jack Ryan I don't know who gave you that idea. We're still preaching, and from my experience for the last few months outside of school and work, there are people legitimately trying to find us (despite what Ex Jws say), either for meetings or a Bible Study. At times we really don't have to do much. There are people out there who generally want to learn what the Bible really teaches, who Jehovah God is and his son, Jesus. So the pandemic bogging some people down, but not all. I think we raised up in the number of adherents too. My congregation has more people, a few friends of mine had a few newcomers, even some who are in the United Kingdom, France and Spain. So we haven't stopped, Matthew 24:14 is taken seriously, and to our Russian brothers and sisters, their faith has been strong enough to prevent their situation from breaking that spiritual armor. In my experience, met some pretty cool people in the ministry via letter writing and zoom, likewise with people at my college.
@Space Merchant To this day, your knowledge and experience still intimidates people to the point of succumbing to Gnosiophobia lol. I agree with the history which you explained about what New Thought was, I was not aware that they originated from a Spiritualistic new age theology. As for Televangelism, that is also correct, not only it boomed in the 1950s in the United States, but it was in total dominance in that era to now. A paid spot on a random channel was what boosted it. The Prosperity theology is odd because it teaches that God wants people to be prosperous, especially financially, through it, power. Adherents to the Prosperity Gospel believe that wealth is a sign of God’s blessing and the poor are poor because of a lack of faith.
Also I'm not aware of who this Chan guy is, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Bible and his message is weaponized to demonize and to convert people.
@Thinking As usual, seems like the same prime suspects - taking what someone said and molding it into some mindless Frankenstein. But it is best to ignore it, or just speak the truth. A lot of people seem to be in favor of lies and deception because it fits what their view is, they never want to hear both sides of the story, this is why Brother Splane was right in key points of his talk, especially when it came to apostasy. Someone here mentioned he misused Matthew 5:25, 26, which I don't think he did. to handle  things quickly and he mentioned things handled in a just matter with truth, and the point was focused on Jesus urging his disciples to be about settling matters quickly; this is general, like disputes. He was also right about Satan causing division, and essentially leading bad association in proximity of good persons -
I can attest to that because of a recent situation whereas in a chat about the Olympics, someone asked where everyone was from and a brief note about their background, even faith, the second I mentioned I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, out of nowhere, an apostate appeared lol 😅. You never know. But the other people there argued with him, and soon after booted him. They then asked who Jehovah God, and just like that, I told them. Some of the people were not as religious but stayed to listen, some asked for verses, and I just left them with a few verses, one of the verses being James 1:13. So in a situation like that because of an apostate who lashed out randomly, it resulted in a few small Bible gems for people to remember. I had another fun experience with preaching over zoom regarding a heavy metal dude, that is a story I'll save for another day.
@Witness Well he isn't wrong. From what I am seeing, it isn't a matter of lumping terms together, Jehovah's Witnesses are Restorationist, if I recall, he has been saying that for a number of years and gave ample information to back it up (for none of us can forget colorful text, citations and quotes lol), he kept saying "roots" indicating a sense of credibility; they're not random unknown terms. It "isn't his term", in fact, he linked you the history. What he linked you, about Restorationism, it tells you just that, and the main source states: "Jehovah's Witnesses is a millenarian restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity." Backed up by prominent sources like Rodney Stark, Beckford, even some notable and credible sources. Restorationists aren't just against the Trinity/do not believe in the Trinity, but they are also the types to try to apply practices of the early church, or take steps to restoring practices in the modern day, even when it comes to Scripture and translation, this appears to be the case. There is a difference between Restorationist Christians and New Thought Christians. So calling Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone from Prosperity Preachers is not only a lie, but it shows, as he puts it, a total disregard to the history of either. Prosperity preachers are an adversary to not just Restorationist, but to nontrinitarians, so in reality, to me, and to you, we are seen as a threat. Simply making assumptions on the matter is essentially giving them a win in their book. I do wanna be the person to do that to them, and I genuinely believe you do not want to do the same too, let's not give them that win.
Some key differences:
We believe in the commission - preaching of the good news, they believe that God gives riches and wealth in abundance, using Scripture to increase their personal wealth. We believe Jehovah God is the one True God. They believe Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is a person, also God. We do not believe in the Immortal Soul Doctrine, but they believe good people go to heaven and bad people burn in Hell; believing the soul is immortal. We believe the ability to have visions died out with the last of the apostles, they believe they can have visions, speak in various tongues and literal heal people or expel demons. We do not celebrate Holidays, but they do, and on the holidays, they reap wealth for not the benefit of the Christian congregation expenses, etc., but for personal gain. We believe we are under the New Covenant. They do not believe in the Covenants, and simply mix-match them for their own benefit. The list goes on. Also, it was said before, but what is behind Restorationism is Subordinationism. It is understandable as to why Prosperity preachers would like to throw rocks in our direct, the main fact of our view of Christ Jesus.
Just be careful for assuming terms, when often times the root of an legitimate thing can be traced back centuries.
Always, stay frosty with the research, should you even consider it.

@Jack Ryan I don't know who gave you that idea. We're still preaching, and from my experience for the last few months outside of school and work, there are people legitimately trying to find us (despite what Ex Jws say), either for meetings or a Bible Study. At times we really don't have to do much. There are people out there who generally want to learn what the Bible really teaches, who Jehovah God is and his son, Jesus. So the pandemic bogging some people down, but not all. I think we raised up in the number of adherents too. My congregation has more people, a few friends of mine had a few newcomers, even some who are in the United Kingdom, France and Spain. So we haven't stopped, Matthew 24:14 is taken seriously, and to our Russian brothers and sisters, their faith has been strong enough to prevent their situation from breaking that spiritual armor. In my experience, met some pretty cool people in the ministry via letter writing and zoom, likewise with people at my college.
@Space Merchant To this day, your knowledge and experience still intimidates people to the point of succumbing to Gnosiophobia lol. I agree with the history which you explained about what New Thought was, I was not aware that they originated from a Spiritualistic new age theology. As for Televangelism, that is also correct, not only it boomed in the 1950s in the United States, but it was in total dominance in that era to now. A paid spot on a random channel was what boosted it. The Prosperity theology is odd because it teaches that God wants people to be prosperous, especially financially, through it, power. Adherents to the Prosperity Gospel believe that wealth is a sign of God’s blessing and the poor are poor because of a lack of faith.
Also I'm not aware of who this Chan guy is, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Bible and his message is weaponized to demonize and to convert people.
@Thinking As usual, seems like the same prime suspects - taking what someone said and molding it into some mindless Frankenstein. But it is best to ignore it, or just speak the truth. A lot of people seem to be in favor of lies and deception because it fits what their view is, they never want to hear both sides of the story, this is why Brother Splane was right in key points of his talk, especially when it came to apostasy. Someone here mentioned he misused Matthew 5:25, 26, which I don't think he did. to handle  things quickly and he mentioned things handled in a just matter with truth, and the point was focused on Jesus urging his disciples to be about settling matters quickly; this is general, like disputes. He was also right about Satan causing division, and essentially leading bad association in proximity of good persons -
I can attest to that because of a recent situation whereas in a chat about the Olympics, someone asked where everyone was from and a brief note about their background, even faith, the second I mentioned I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, out of nowhere, an apostate appeared lol 😅. You never know. But the other people there argued with him, and soon after booted him. They then asked who Jehovah God, and just like that, I told them. Some of the people were not as religious but stayed to listen, some asked for verses, and I just left them with a few verses, one of the verses being James 1:13. So in a situation like that because of an apostate who lashed out randomly, it resulted in a few small Bible gems for people to remember. I had another fun experience with preaching over zoom regarding a heavy metal dude, that is a story I'll save for another day.
@Witness Well he isn't wrong. From what I am seeing, it isn't a matter of lumping terms together, Jehovah's Witnesses are Restorationist, if I recall, he has been saying that for a number of years and gave ample information to back it up (for none of us can forget colorful text, citations and quotes lol), he kept saying "roots" indicating a sense of credibility; they're not random unknown terms. It "isn't his term", in fact, he linked you the history. What he linked you, about Restorationism, it tells you just that, and the main source states: "Jehovah's Witnesses is a millenarian restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity." Backed up by prominent sources like Rodney Stark, Beckford, even some notable and credible sources. Restorationists aren't just against the Trinity/do not believe in the Trinity, but they are also the types to try to apply practices of the early church, or take steps to restoring practices in the modern day, even when it comes to Scripture and translation, this appears to be the case. There is a difference between Restorationist Christians and New Thought Christians. So calling Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone from Prosperity Preachers is not only a lie, but it shows, as he puts it, a total disregard to the history of either. Prosperity preachers are an adversary to not just Restorationist, but to nontrinitarians, so in reality, to me, and to you, we are seen as a threat. Simply making assumptions on the matter is essentially giving them a win in their book. I do wanna be the person to do that to them, and I genuinely believe you do not want to do the same too, let's not give them that win.
Some key differences:
We believe in the commission - preaching of the good news, they believe that God gives riches and wealth in abundance, using Scripture to increase their personal wealth. We believe Jehovah God is the one True God. They believe Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is a person, also God. We do not believe in the Immortal Soul Doctrine, but they believe good people go to heaven and bad people burn in Hell; believing the soul is immortal. We believe the ability to have visions died out with the last of the apostles, they believe they can have visions, speak in various tongues and literal heal people or expel demons. We do not celebrate Holidays, but they do, and on the holidays, they reap wealth for not the benefit of the Christian congregation expenses, etc., but for personal gain. We believe we are under the New Covenant. They do not believe in the Covenants, and simply mix-match them for their own benefit. The list goes on. Also, it was said before, but what is behind Restorationism is Subordinationism. It is understandable as to why Prosperity preachers would like to throw rocks in our direct, the main fact of our view of Christ Jesus.
Just be careful for assuming terms, when often times the root of an legitimate thing can be traced back centuries.
Always, stay frosty with the research, should you even consider it.

Yes, we all do - and that is both well and good. But like I said, Splane did have a point there, if understood. It is not only on listening to or speaking about false rumors, but on how damaging it can be to someone directly or indirectly, which can commit to harm and or injury, even death; for a recent tragic situation, a simple glitch in a system resulted in a death last year. It can also lead to problematic association and division.
But Srecko, I've asked what you have done so far about child sex abuse?
I'm not saying this to be rude, I am saying it because like some of us here you talk about it most (in various media, not just here) when it comes to this taking place with the JWs, so it is only right to address that question to you, since you mentioned CSA to @Thinking. and to be honest, I was expecting some insight threads on the matter coming back, there was only one and that was some years ago, and the usual continuous talk of CSA, WT, GB show that happens to pop up spontaneously in random threads - like this one.
You really don't have to read the below, it is only there if you have time to spare, it doesn't really bother me.
I can give you an example of what I've been doing.
Don't know if you know this but we do have Watchtower articles about child sex abuse and what a parent and or guardian should do to protect their children [note - ircc something similar, even mentioned here  about ARC, of the sort was but rarely talked about on the internet]. Not only it is advise to read and take in whatever information that is helpful, but we discuss about it whenever we get the chance. Not all Jehovah's Witnesses are oblivious to child sex abuse, and or the topic of immortality, for, all of us know, you, me and everyone here, man is imperfect and because of that there is sin. Even outside of the meetings, I talk about this in college, and yes, people are aware of child sex abuse, but they think with enough logic on what to do before it happens and what to do after it does, mainly when it comes to raising the issue - the subject of child sex abuse itself in general. Believe it or not, everyone takes a different action, sometimes bad ones, especially if they are not well versed in child sex abuse and prevention. But when you know how to deal with the problem, there is benefit. Also Justice is also isn't always clean, but that is a discussion for another day.
Last month, we had some students the Rutgers campus, who joined up in my class and she made things, pulling from my notepad:
So all in all, doing something actually reaps it's rewards, and it is a benefit, be it to the congregation, or outside of it. What some ExJWs do not realize is some people out there know these problems and will take the right action, they are not like the majority of people who do not know what to do - and these people may learn a thing or two if they are aware and someone to teach them or direct them to applying something beneficial, even for younger kids.
You might not like the fact that I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, for I remember when I was a high schooler, I had a few spats with you because of our first interaction. But now, I think and do things with logic, and understanding, positive decision making and had apply these things.
Had to make this known, mainly from experiences and what I've learned and what I continue to do. You don't fit to do these things, we really can't do much because of the pandemic, but we, even you have a foot on some platforms. Things can be done.

@Thinking's point was some things can easily be made a false rumor. No one is oblivious to child sex abuse at all and it is very unfortunate that in an imperfect world people act out their sin. So regarding CSA, anyone can take a story, and mold it into something else. Since we are all mature here, the truth of the matter is in today's world anything about sexual relations can be weaponized, used as a tool to commit harm and or injury. Sadly, this is the case with child sex abuse too. This is why it is important for guardians and or parents to not only talk to their kids about the dangers, but how to protect themselves. I mean, child sex abuse has always been talked about over and over and over again on this forums, but rarely do people take action on the matter, especially the ones who constantly bring it up, sometimes without warning. I'm sure you have access to various social media, by not teach and explain to people how to protect their children instead of being this way - I mean, you did bring up CSA&N a while back, why not apply their teaching?
I dislike child sex abuse, and I am sure you dislike it as much as I do, but taking steps to help, reach one, teach one is beneficial. So Splane is correct on false rumors. Because anyone can take a story and make it apocryphal right out of the gate before any facts are gathered - something of which was done with the Royal Commission.
 
 

I think I'll be the pink elephant in the room with this one....
I finally have a break from college, coming back, and it is still pretty much the same prime suspects lol
😲 visible shock 😲

 
I take it no one has really changed that much? Did anything different instead, just say JW this and that? Same topics, etc? lol
But seriously, has anyone ever changed or did something so far? Did something positive? No barking, but biting wise?
 

@Jack Ryan I don't know who gave you that idea. We're still preaching, and from my experience for the last few months outside of school and work, there are people legitimately trying to find us (despite what Ex Jws say), either for meetings or a Bible Study. At times we really don't have to do much. There are people out there who generally want to learn what the Bible really teaches, who Jehovah God is and his son, Jesus. So the pandemic bogging some people down, but not all. I think we raised up in the number of adherents too. My congregation has more people, a few friends of mine had a few newcomers, even some who are in the United Kingdom, France and Spain. So we haven't stopped, Matthew 24:14 is taken seriously, and to our Russian brothers and sisters, their faith has been strong enough to prevent their situation from breaking that spiritual armor. In my experience, met some pretty cool people in the ministry via letter writing and zoom, likewise with people at my college.
@Space Merchant To this day, your knowledge and experience still intimidates people to the point of succumbing to Gnosiophobia lol. I agree with the history which you explained about what New Thought was, I was not aware that they originated from a Spiritualistic new age theology. As for Televangelism, that is also correct, not only it boomed in the 1950s in the United States, but it was in total dominance in that era to now. A paid spot on a random channel was what boosted it. The Prosperity theology is odd because it teaches that God wants people to be prosperous, especially financially, through it, power. Adherents to the Prosperity Gospel believe that wealth is a sign of God’s blessing and the poor are poor because of a lack of faith.
Also I'm not aware of who this Chan guy is, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Bible and his message is weaponized to demonize and to convert people.
@Thinking As usual, seems like the same prime suspects - taking what someone said and molding it into some mindless Frankenstein. But it is best to ignore it, or just speak the truth. A lot of people seem to be in favor of lies and deception because it fits what their view is, they never want to hear both sides of the story, this is why Brother Splane was right in key points of his talk, especially when it came to apostasy. Someone here mentioned he misused Matthew 5:25, 26, which I don't think he did. to handle  things quickly and he mentioned things handled in a just matter with truth, and the point was focused on Jesus urging his disciples to be about settling matters quickly; this is general, like disputes. He was also right about Satan causing division, and essentially leading bad association in proximity of good persons -
I can attest to that because of a recent situation whereas in a chat about the Olympics, someone asked where everyone was from and a brief note about their background, even faith, the second I mentioned I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, out of nowhere, an apostate appeared lol 😅. You never know. But the other people there argued with him, and soon after booted him. They then asked who Jehovah God, and just like that, I told them. Some of the people were not as religious but stayed to listen, some asked for verses, and I just left them with a few verses, one of the verses being James 1:13. So in a situation like that because of an apostate who lashed out randomly, it resulted in a few small Bible gems for people to remember. I had another fun experience with preaching over zoom regarding a heavy metal dude, that is a story I'll save for another day.
@Witness Well he isn't wrong. From what I am seeing, it isn't a matter of lumping terms together, Jehovah's Witnesses are Restorationist, if I recall, he has been saying that for a number of years and gave ample information to back it up (for none of us can forget colorful text, citations and quotes lol), he kept saying "roots" indicating a sense of credibility; they're not random unknown terms. It "isn't his term", in fact, he linked you the history. What he linked you, about Restorationism, it tells you just that, and the main source states: "Jehovah's Witnesses is a millenarian restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity." Backed up by prominent sources like Rodney Stark, Beckford, even some notable and credible sources. Restorationists aren't just against the Trinity/do not believe in the Trinity, but they are also the types to try to apply practices of the early church, or take steps to restoring practices in the modern day, even when it comes to Scripture and translation, this appears to be the case. There is a difference between Restorationist Christians and New Thought Christians. So calling Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone from Prosperity Preachers is not only a lie, but it shows, as he puts it, a total disregard to the history of either. Prosperity preachers are an adversary to not just Restorationist, but to nontrinitarians, so in reality, to me, and to you, we are seen as a threat. Simply making assumptions on the matter is essentially giving them a win in their book. I do wanna be the person to do that to them, and I genuinely believe you do not want to do the same too, let's not give them that win.
Some key differences:
We believe in the commission - preaching of the good news, they believe that God gives riches and wealth in abundance, using Scripture to increase their personal wealth. We believe Jehovah God is the one True God. They believe Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is a person, also God. We do not believe in the Immortal Soul Doctrine, but they believe good people go to heaven and bad people burn in Hell; believing the soul is immortal. We believe the ability to have visions died out with the last of the apostles, they believe they can have visions, speak in various tongues and literal heal people or expel demons. We do not celebrate Holidays, but they do, and on the holidays, they reap wealth for not the benefit of the Christian congregation expenses, etc., but for personal gain. We believe we are under the New Covenant. They do not believe in the Covenants, and simply mix-match them for their own benefit. The list goes on. Also, it was said before, but what is behind Restorationism is Subordinationism. It is understandable as to why Prosperity preachers would like to throw rocks in our direct, the main fact of our view of Christ Jesus.
Just be careful for assuming terms, when often times the root of an legitimate thing can be traced back centuries.
Always, stay frosty with the research, should you even consider it.

... funny you should specifically mention barking and biting .....

Did you even bother to look at the citation on the wiki quotation? Evidently - no. Also Restorationism aren't Protestants, since Protestant was the result of a break away from Catholicism. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Protestantism#16th_century
Wilson, J. Matthew (2007). From Pews to Polling Places: Faith and Politics in the American Religious Mosaic. Georgetown University Press. ISBN 978-1-58901-172-4. That being said, it shows you really do not know the history of Prosperity Preachers, let alone of where they originated from.
Again, those who know the history can speak on said history. Just highlighting a quotation without knowing the citation or context behind it shows the lack.
 
I encourage you to learn the difference.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Great-Awakening https://www.britannica.com/event/New-Thought https://www.britannica.com/topic/universal-restoration And of course, as I recall you allusion to New Ageism, which is also cited in said source - https://www.britannica.com/topic/New-Age-movement (This is linked to the Spirituality theology by the way) This still stands

I don't focus on surface information sadly. Again, you are making a claim of which Restorationist in general have a strong disdain for - Prosperity Preachers and everything pertaining to it. We see here you are equating two rivals together of which whom do not like each other for a very very long time, even before JWs existed. This stems back to again, The Great Awakening prior to, during and after. As pointed out in the past, Restorationist mostly use whatever means to push the Commission, they do not do what the Prosperity Preachers are doing, for which you are equating the two, which seems to be the case because you attempt this with Smurf and Zelda, in addition to that fact, you could not make any connection of the two.
How can you call Restorationist Christians Prosperity Preachers if they for a very very LONG time have consider them sworn enemies?
I do know a lot and I have experience, this is why I live up to what I said
 
So the idea of, your claim of Anti-Trinitarians, among them, Restorationist being like that of a rival of whom some spoke ill of, is false here.
In all respects, like I said to you before, you say you are chosen, but little lies and errs you at times preach as a truth. The very reason Kosenen called you out on this, as have I. Be careful of what you profess if the history speaks more truth. As for any JW here, they are rooted from Restorationism, due to it being their history be it they know it or not.
 

Again, and I will quote myself:
That being said, they won't do such nor are they on their way, for Restorationists, as a whole, do not adhere to what the mainstream does. Babylon wouldn't even allow it if they tried, due to what has been taking place regarding religion from the early 2000s to now, even more due to former members of the faith in question.
So your belief does not reside with the history, let alone the view of Restorationist Christians, mainly due to the fact of how they themselves view Prosperity Preachers. Likewise with Prosperity Preachers, who for over the years mock others who do not do the same as they do regarding Televangelism, i.e. Creflo Dollar, an American televangelist. Some of the off grid Restorationists had a lone of negative things to say about Televangelism for years now.
Prosperity Preachers are rooted from The New Thought movement (also called  Higher Thought), is a spiritual movement which coalesced in the United States in the early 19th century, this was around the same time the Great Awakening took place. It was during the Healing Revivals of the 1950s that Prosperity Theology first came to prominence in the United States in full force - thus these types of preachers are born.
No, it does not. hence the following -  how they themselves view Prosperity Preachers.
Restorationist, and most Anti-Trinitarian Christians are, in this case, sworn enemies of Prosperity Preachers (similarly to how Muslims view Televised Dawah). This so called rivalry was possibly due to everything that transpired after the Great Awakening of Christianity (which is true hence the history) and where the Prosperity Preachers came in some years later to shift the battleground due to tools and technology unitized in that time, as for Televangelism, during the 1960s, Prosperity Preachers embraced it and came to dominance with televised religious programming in the United States, the first among them in this regard being Granville Oral Roberts was an American Charismatic Christian televangelist, ordained in both the Pentecostal Holiness and United Methodist churches. He was among the first, developing a weekly program that became the most watched religious show in the United States, and others followed suite in the Prosperity space. In the 1990s and 2000s, it was adopted by Influential Leaders in the Pentecostal Movement and Charismatic Movement in the United States and has spread around the globe.
This is why Prosperity Preachers often use uncanny information to demonize anyone who is in the camp of Anti-Trinitarian, example would be Francis Chan, who essentially weaponized the Bible against not to just JWs and Anti-Trinitarians, even won over a big number of ExJWs (true - if you go to any material where preachers like him speaks of JWs, him specifically, likewise with those against the Trinity as a whole) and others of former faiths  prior to and after the Babylon fueled event of 2016, as stated in the other thread, Babylon's wave took a lot of folks, even EXJws.
Lastly, the very reasons they do this with Anti-Trinitarians is because their root of existence, which was explained.
Also as for the verses you mentioned, not sure what was the reason for citing it.
That being said,
The situation with them and these types of preachers is no different to the difference between those who had their view of Jesus, Jesus being the Son of God, and those that see Jesus as God, going as far as to alter the Scriptures, even killing people, to do so.
Other then that Prosperity Preachers are essentially an obstacle for sometime now, granted Babylon has been using them.
History is always key, Witness, mainly if the history is factual. 
 
Also Tiktok?

Oh, mon doux enfant dété.

You gave me link on this. That is your point, i think. 

Seeing that a lot of peeps here are from around the world, just wanna know how you guys are holding up? I was always on lurk mode because I am busy, so I was bored today.
For me I am busy with virtual classes now, which are dreadful. The brothers and sisters are doing fine, as well as family. Some of our friends and the people we preach too are doing good.
With the vaccines out there is a lot of fear in the black and latino communities, even outside of it. 2 of my professors are against it, but like all others, they say it is personal choice.
Anyways.... How about you guys?
The pandemic is taking a toll on some peeps directly and indirectly. 
To my Latinos and Latinas
Viendo que mucha gente aquí es de todo el mundo, ¿solo quieren saber cómo les está yendo?  Siempre estuve al acecho porque estoy ocupado, así que hoy estaba aburrido.
Para mí ahora estoy ocupado con clases virtuales, que son espantosas.  Los hermanos y hermanas están bien, al igual que la familia.  Algunos de nuestros amigos y las personas a las que predicamos también lo están haciendo bien.
Con las Covid-19 vaccine, hay mucho miedo en las comunidades black y Latin communities, fuera de ellas.  2 de mis profesores están en contra, pero como todos los demás, dicen que es una elección personal.
 De todos modos .... ¿Qué hay de ustedes?

Human Sacrifice? That is a stretch Matt. 😬Seeing how long this has been going on, I doubt a small number of people is causing damage to the Russian population. This is more of, well, a specific group that doesn't want competition and said group has many many allies, even other religous leaders.

Seeing that a lot of peeps here are from around the world, just wanna know how you guys are holding up? I was always on lurk mode because I am busy, so I was bored today.
For me I am busy with virtual classes now, which are dreadful. The brothers and sisters are doing fine, as well as family. Some of our friends and the people we preach too are doing good.
With the vaccines out there is a lot of fear in the black and latino communities, even outside of it. 2 of my professors are against it, but like all others, they say it is personal choice.
Anyways.... How about you guys?
The pandemic is taking a toll on some peeps directly and indirectly. 
To my Latinos and Latinas
Viendo que mucha gente aquí es de todo el mundo, ¿solo quieren saber cómo les está yendo?  Siempre estuve al acecho porque estoy ocupado, así que hoy estaba aburrido.
Para mí ahora estoy ocupado con clases virtuales, que son espantosas.  Los hermanos y hermanas están bien, al igual que la familia.  Algunos de nuestros amigos y las personas a las que predicamos también lo están haciendo bien.
Con las Covid-19 vaccine, hay mucho miedo en las comunidades black y Latin communities, fuera de ellas.  2 de mis profesores están en contra, pero como todos los demás, dicen que es una elección personal.
 De todos modos .... ¿Qué hay de ustedes?

Seeing that a lot of peeps here are from around the world, just wanna know how you guys are holding up? I was always on lurk mode because I am busy, so I was bored today.
For me I am busy with virtual classes now, which are dreadful. The brothers and sisters are doing fine, as well as family. Some of our friends and the people we preach too are doing good.
With the vaccines out there is a lot of fear in the black and latino communities, even outside of it. 2 of my professors are against it, but like all others, they say it is personal choice.
Anyways.... How about you guys?
The pandemic is taking a toll on some peeps directly and indirectly. 
To my Latinos and Latinas
Viendo que mucha gente aquí es de todo el mundo, ¿solo quieren saber cómo les está yendo?  Siempre estuve al acecho porque estoy ocupado, así que hoy estaba aburrido.
Para mí ahora estoy ocupado con clases virtuales, que son espantosas.  Los hermanos y hermanas están bien, al igual que la familia.  Algunos de nuestros amigos y las personas a las que predicamos también lo están haciendo bien.
Con las Covid-19 vaccine, hay mucho miedo en las comunidades black y Latin communities, fuera de ellas.  2 de mis profesores están en contra, pero como todos los demás, dicen que es una elección personal.
 De todos modos .... ¿Qué hay de ustedes?

Seeing that a lot of peeps here are from around the world, just wanna know how you guys are holding up? I was always on lurk mode because I am busy, so I was bored today.
For me I am busy with virtual classes now, which are dreadful. The brothers and sisters are doing fine, as well as family. Some of our friends and the people we preach too are doing good.
With the vaccines out there is a lot of fear in the black and latino communities, even outside of it. 2 of my professors are against it, but like all others, they say it is personal choice.
Anyways.... How about you guys?
The pandemic is taking a toll on some peeps directly and indirectly. 
To my Latinos and Latinas
Viendo que mucha gente aquí es de todo el mundo, ¿solo quieren saber cómo les está yendo?  Siempre estuve al acecho porque estoy ocupado, así que hoy estaba aburrido.
Para mí ahora estoy ocupado con clases virtuales, que son espantosas.  Los hermanos y hermanas están bien, al igual que la familia.  Algunos de nuestros amigos y las personas a las que predicamos también lo están haciendo bien.
Con las Covid-19 vaccine, hay mucho miedo en las comunidades black y Latin communities, fuera de ellas.  2 de mis profesores están en contra, pero como todos los demás, dicen que es una elección personal.
 De todos modos .... ¿Qué hay de ustedes?

Seeing that a lot of peeps here are from around the world, just wanna know how you guys are holding up? I was always on lurk mode because I am busy, so I was bored today.
For me I am busy with virtual classes now, which are dreadful. The brothers and sisters are doing fine, as well as family. Some of our friends and the people we preach too are doing good.
With the vaccines out there is a lot of fear in the black and latino communities, even outside of it. 2 of my professors are against it, but like all others, they say it is personal choice.
Anyways.... How about you guys?
The pandemic is taking a toll on some peeps directly and indirectly. 
To my Latinos and Latinas
Viendo que mucha gente aquí es de todo el mundo, ¿solo quieren saber cómo les está yendo?  Siempre estuve al acecho porque estoy ocupado, así que hoy estaba aburrido.
Para mí ahora estoy ocupado con clases virtuales, que son espantosas.  Los hermanos y hermanas están bien, al igual que la familia.  Algunos de nuestros amigos y las personas a las que predicamos también lo están haciendo bien.
Con las Covid-19 vaccine, hay mucho miedo en las comunidades black y Latin communities, fuera de ellas.  2 de mis profesores están en contra, pero como todos los demás, dicen que es una elección personal.
 De todos modos .... ¿Qué hay de ustedes?