Equivocation

Seeing that a lot of peeps here are from around the world, just wanna know how you guys are holding up? I was always on lurk mode because I am busy, so I was bored today.
For me I am busy with virtual classes now, which are dreadful. The brothers and sisters are doing fine, as well as family. Some of our friends and the people we preach too are doing good.
With the vaccines out there is a lot of fear in the black and latino communities, even outside of it. 2 of my professors are against it, but like all others, they say it is personal choice.
Anyways.... How about you guys?
The pandemic is taking a toll on some peeps directly and indirectly. 
To my Latinos and Latinas
Viendo que mucha gente aquí es de todo el mundo, ¿solo quieren saber cómo les está yendo?  Siempre estuve al acecho porque estoy ocupado, así que hoy estaba aburrido.
Para mí ahora estoy ocupado con clases virtuales, que son espantosas.  Los hermanos y hermanas están bien, al igual que la familia.  Algunos de nuestros amigos y las personas a las que predicamos también lo están haciendo bien.
Con las Covid-19 vaccine, hay mucho miedo en las comunidades black y Latin communities, fuera de ellas.  2 de mis profesores están en contra, pero como todos los demás, dicen que es una elección personal.
 De todos modos .... ¿Qué hay de ustedes?

Erm.... Christmas? Dunno man 😬, for you see... That isn't my cup of tea for a multiple reasons, primarily Biblically. I am good with pleasing Jehovah God. Isn't better to be cool with Jah? Also that video.... I seen that guy before, he isn't always 100%. If you check his comment section you can clearly see some people against him.
Also there is proof it is pagan, SEVERAL PEOPLE HERE GAVE THAT INFORMATION. And we all know Jesus wasn't born on December 25th because the American Calendar and the Jewish Calendar are different. Jesus' day of birth is unknown, however, due to a number of evidence we find in the Bible, it is most likely that Jesus was born around Autumn [Fall Seaon]. And the shepherds were out.
And it isn't just us Witnesses who dont partake in that holiday, there are many others. Half the people in my class don't celebrate it,, even the teacher, although he is not religous he believes that Christmas connects to urban legend and spiritism. 
Anyways, on other news, Home School isn't fun and I don't think I'll be on campus anytime soon.

Well I'm not a JW but there does seem to be evidence of pagan rituals in that part of December, such as worshipping the Sun.  So maybe not worshipping pagan gods, but more like celebrating pagan customs. 
What religion is Yule? The Pagan celebration of Winter Solstice (also known as Yule) is one of the oldest winter celebrations in the world. Ancient people were hunters and spent most of their time outdoors. The seasons and weather played a very important part in their lives. 

@Shiwiii No, I was only encouraged to seek Baptism,  even my late uncle who had no religous affiliation,  but was very hard on applying the Bible also encouraged me and others in my family Caza despues del bautismo y se salvo, as he puts it. But as I grew older, I took the steps necessary torwards Baptism myself, especially during my early preteen years. I made thos choice because I firmly accept what the Scriptures teach about Jehovah God and his Christ and I took the time and effort to put the teachings of the Scriptures first, even as far as to mold myself to be a better Christian, and a declaring that I myself want to serve God fully, and in doing so, I go about with the tools that I have been given to teach what Jesus taught regarding the good news and what the Kingdom would bring - caso y punto.

@4Jah2me Que? We, I myself included, have faith in what Jehovah's Kingdom will bring. I have faith in God and recognize him as the Father of the one we put faith in his teachings, Christ Jesus. 
I don't want to be rude, but welcome to the forums, also it does get a tad bit crazy here. Second, I don't think it is a good idea to assume such a thing when despite all of us being in the faith and truth, we are, each and everyone of us as an individual differ from one another, even by action and what we can and cannot do, etc.

@4Jah2me Well amigo, if you scroll up, the discussion between you guys is clear. Going back to JTR, he is well aware, me even, of how people like him take child abuse in general, counting everything.

That is not true. Be it you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses or not, especially if you are someone who has been teaching children to fight against child sex abuse, you'd know. Child sex abuse is really a big problem around the world, this includes The United States of America where there is a type of culture that promotes pedophile like behavior and over sexualize children. I don't know how old you are, but in my case, I see it all the time in social media and the idea being promoted and embraced. Not sure if you are into social media tho.

Well that is your experience. Like what Spacey said, you will have some Jehovah's Witnesses that are not aware or even trained on child sex abuse so if a case does come up, they don't actually know how to handle it compared to those that do, and in my case, my congregation is a blessing because we not only worship Jehovah together, but we do everything we can to pass on lessons to be applied, likewise with the Latino culture. So our Elders and your elders, although the same faith, differ from each other when it comes to handling things. As for your experience, it isn't mine and if it was an negative one, sorry then, but I don't know how a lot of the people in your country do things.

Well from the day he challenged JTR and me, it was all Bible based when it comes to helping children, only about 5% was from protection services on helping children. Helping children does not mean going into the world, you really have to double check what being part of the world means. Anyways One thing he did point out is the abuser often target specific children, points on safeguarding was brought up, in short, knowing how to fight this problem you have to be knowledgeable. I figure this is the same case with the number of child abuse cases in Australia. Also What I said to you was not to disrespect you, but it is the common way people tend to me regarding problems, be it the gross sin we are talking about right this moment or other things like violence, confrontations, etc. For instance, if you, me, tom, spacey, and the others dealt with a child abuse situation, I can guarantee you that the outcome would be different for each of us, mainly if the abuser is extremely stuble with his actions unless you are aware of the signs such as constant gifting, grooming, etc of the child, the practice of keeping secrets between the abused and the abuser.

Well that depends, there are some Jehovah's Witnesses in your country that does help out. We don't ignore our neighbors, we do what we can to help them. But like I said, I cannot speak for everyone, and what Spacey brought up, it applies to them too because there's no telling how someone would respond to a situation and how yo handle it verses not knowing anything at all, so in a sense, a fight, freeze or flight type situation. So child sex abuse, some people, even some Jehovah's Witnesses, can deal with the problem in a correct manner whereas others can't, whether they know about abuse or not. What Spacey is pressing is Scripture based wisdom, which is indeed a weapon against child abuse. In my case, there are people who know about child abuse but are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and they pass their wisdom to, others, if they want to know how to fight it, I simply give them information from a publication. It is up to the person on how they want to use the information and if they truly want to or are fighting to reduce child abuse in every pocket on the globe.

Well disfellowshipment does cut congregation ties, as for your family, that is a blessing, it is always a blessing to have people close to you. Well I don't know them, however, if you knew the Jehovah's Witnesses I knew, they would take the time to understand where you are coming from, granted, some Jehovah's Witnesses cannot do this verses those that can.

Well I am talking you lol, however, I can't really provide you with much other than what is being talked about, I'm a kid compared to all of guys here. You have every right to speak your mind about child abuse, however, like what Spacey pointed out you can do whatever you can to help out as well as confront child abuse in the right way. Looking at your comments, I don't know what happened at the Hall you were in but you are packing a jar of anger that stretches even outside of child abuse.

I only talk about child abuse when the subject is brought up, but since I am well aware of it and understand the signs and all that stuff as well as comfort people, that is what I can do, that is all I can do.
Errr.. What do you mean going out into the world? 🤔. To be no part of the world means to not participate in anything that involving Babylon, we have to maintain neutrality as to not take sides, i.e. Republican/Democrats and a list of other things. I don't see how you are getting thing idea, can you elaborate and be more clear about it please? Thanks.

@4Jah2me I don't think Spacey is blinding anyone especially the fact is that due to a lot of the things he says covering child sex abuse, he so speaks of his experience, i.e. helping children to learn what child sex abuse is and how to see the signs and all that is a major plus👍🏾. So what he is saying is 💯 true and it is not just with Jehovah's Witnesses, but people in general, all over the world.
We can take you for example - You practically mention child sex abuse all the time, but you haven't taken action whatsoever, well, from looking at the conversation between you and spacey, you ignore the very point he made, then you went on to say that someone who has experience with helping the general public know about child sex abuse, knows nothing at all, although false, but that is what you pressed. Spacey is the opposite, he not only speaks on child sex abuse, but he has done something about it by teaching not just children, but adults about child sex abuse and his actions actually caused positive growth.

So in short, both of you speak about it, but only one of you, in this example, spacey, has and continues to take literal action on child sex abuse in general, heck, he even challenged me and JTR on this a while back.

So as for the publications, like what was pointed out, people who read them understand what child abuse is and understand the signs of both the abuser and someone who has been abused. Even outside of the publications, this is something that is practically, especially in different cultures where the bond between a parent or guardian and child us strong. Likewise with us Jehovah's Witnesses, like the general public, some of us know and take action, others know but don't take any action because they don't know how to execute a plan against the problem, and then you have those that clearly have no idea of anything at all.

By the by, our elders at our hall are capable of dealing with the issue, so to throw all elders into the same basket is kinda silly.
Don't know why you voted down something that is true 🤔 unless you have something to say that would be much appreciated, 4jah2me.

@4Jah2me I don't think Spacey is blinding anyone especially the fact is that due to a lot of the things he says covering child sex abuse, he so speaks of his experience, i.e. helping children to learn what child sex abuse is and how to see the signs and all that is a major plus👍🏾. So what he is saying is 💯 true and it is not just with Jehovah's Witnesses, but people in general, all over the world.
We can take you for example - You practically mention child sex abuse all the time, but you haven't taken action whatsoever, well, from looking at the conversation between you and spacey, you ignore the very point he made, then you went on to say that someone who has experience with helping the general public know about child sex abuse, knows nothing at all, although false, but that is what you pressed. Spacey is the opposite, he not only speaks on child sex abuse, but he has done something about it by teaching not just children, but adults about child sex abuse and his actions actually caused positive growth.

So in short, both of you speak about it, but only one of you, in this example, spacey, has and continues to take literal action on child sex abuse in general, heck, he even challenged me and JTR on this a while back.

So as for the publications, like what was pointed out, people who read them understand what child abuse is and understand the signs of both the abuser and someone who has been abused. Even outside of the publications, this is something that is practically, especially in different cultures where the bond between a parent or guardian and child us strong. Likewise with us Jehovah's Witnesses, like the general public, some of us know and take action, others know but don't take any action because they don't know how to execute a plan against the problem, and then you have those that clearly have no idea of anything at all.

By the by, our elders at our hall are capable of dealing with the issue, so to throw all elders into the same basket is kinda silly.
Don't know why you voted down something that is true 🤔 unless you have something to say that would be much appreciated, 4jah2me.

Yahweh and Jehovah are fine for the English speaker. Some people also prefer Yehovah, Jahweh and other names that points to the YHWH.
You can say whatever, Jehovah knows who is calling his name in prayer through Jesus. 😁👍🏾

Yahweh and Jehovah are fine for the English speaker. Some people also prefer Yehovah, Jahweh and other names that points to the YHWH.
You can say whatever, Jehovah knows who is calling his name in prayer through Jesus. 😁👍🏾

On Tuesday April 28th 2015, a man named Franklin Minaar, member of the Branch church went to the East London South Africa zoo, climbed over the wall of the lion’s enclosure, walked up to the lions and said, “Let the battle begin.” He was mauled to death. According to his sister Audrey Minaar he was a very religious man, and said her brother had previously been treated for mental illness at Cecilia Makiwane Hospital. For some reason or other, his Bible was found in the in the same old age home where I am. The owner allowed me to keep it.

With the exception of a few chapters in Kings and Chronicles, he went through the entire Bible, changing the word God into “El”, (Gen. 1:1) Lord God into “Yahweh” (Gen. 2:4). At the bottom of the page in Afrikaans, he wrote, “HWHY” (JHWH reversed) “Because the Israelite text was from right to left.” From there onwards he used Tippex to blot out every text containing words, Lord or God and wrote Yahweh using at first a red pen, and later black. In the Greek scriptures he also used Tippex to blot out the word “Jesus” and wrote “Yahoshua”.

Seeing that I’m going on 90 years old, I asked a much younger friend of mine, to keep his Bible until the resurrection.

Imagine how happy Mr. Minaar would be when hears that we kept his Bible. He will have two new friends to teach him all that transpired since his death. My friend will also be keeping my Scofield Reference Bible which was used when anointed brother Andrew Jack studied with me during 1956.


 
Jack, Andrew: yb07 183 (dx86-16 Latvia)
w09 7/15 p. 24 Ninety Years Ago I Began to ‘Remember My Grand Creator’


 

I second this. Even during the pandemic, there are those we preached to still contact us via phone or letters, having some Bible based questions answered. Also sometimes, it opens room for studying and doing research. Some of the most common things we run into in our ministry is today's situation, the economy, the pandemic, and the protesting. Sometimes we are often asked on why Jehovah's Witnesses maintain neutrality, and or they tend to ask you directly, so we, by means of researching, studying and knowing these things, we can give answer, as well as show them examples and explanation of things from Jehovah God's Word found in the Bible. Preaching may not be the same, but hey, we are still doing the work.
The only cons of this pandemic is I ran out of magazines and tracts in Spanish, so I usually ask if they want it digitally, they accept, but for the people who are not tech savvy, they also accept print outside of a magazine or whatever subject they want to know found in other material.
All and all, there are a lot of people who want to know more about Jehovah God, his Son Jesus and the Kingdom, in addition to what God's Kingdom will provide for mankind. 

Someone mentioned this book to me and even recommended it. The person told me it was something that Jehovah's Witnesses must read. Just from a quick glance, I could already tell that is was 100% apostate material, not to mentioned the heavy content of false teachings and convoluted information. To spacey's credit, it is exaggerated from start to finish. She also says she's an Evangelist, however she has some colorful language in her book and horrendous remarks that is enough to make Jesus shed a tear. Lastly, at the very end, she is trying to promote as well as recruit Jehovah's Witnesses and or anyone who is reading her book. No disrespect to the woman, but she's lost her marbles lol 🤣

Stop advertising apostate books and PRAISE JEHOVAH INSTEAD
 
 
 
 
 
 

The funny thing is that what he was saying is a legitimate Christian belief, even we Jehovah's Witnesses believe this too so it is not only us so that teachings isn't soley exclusive to Jehovah's Witnesses. The fact that the quote of his was actually from some dude who wrote a lot about the New Covenant (Don Stewart) can easily be found (BY THE POWER OF THE INTERNET lol) shows that to be true also.
As far as I know, Stewart is a Theologian, well from what I can see, he isn't one of Jehovah's Witnesses but he knows what the Covenant is about and said the same thing about what was said here.
I don't really have much questions because I read, meditate and apply what I learn from the Bible. If that is a problem for you then you really need to check yourself. I rather not read any less because I apply what Joshua 1:8, we studied about this today actually. 
Oh Frida, oh Frida, intentas esforzarte solo para parecer tonto... Seeing you are denying the name given to you by the Athiest fellow from that very old discussion, to which you deserved it after irritating him. That's cute and all, but that name is your brand, and it sells, and you legit, actually have a family member linked to you by that name, tu mejor amigo. But yeah bro, worked that brand, do you.
As for my participation, it was related to what I made a comment to. What you just say irrelevant.
But seriously, bro... You had a chance to say something wise, but you ended up taking out your own ankles outside of a basketball court, epic fail mi chico jajaja
Come on, amigo, surely you can do more than shed some chuckles, ah if you don't like Frida, Chuckles is another good one.
 

Clown World is a thing I guess 🤡 

 

@admin It's getting crazy out there now. And in the world of today's politics, people will go even crazier when the "orange man bad" crowd starts to riot. 😬
Speaking about Proresting, there's the United Kingdom, Haiti, and I think Chile, and the whole climate change thing too.

Clown World is a thing I guess 🤡 

 

So the world is exploding in protest right now...
We now have concurrently....
Barcelona 2019 Protests
Lebanon 2019 Protests
Ecuador
France - firefighters vs. Police?
Hong Kong
 
Have I missed anything?
It seems like technology though is helping the Carrie Lam's of the world stay in power and control the populist uprisings.
Oops.... and Jane Fonda had to get in on the action:
 

The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view.
Apart from what has already been quoted, Peter makes reference to that early apostate Balaam who sought to attack God's people. He says that when Balaam was hindered in his attempt to stumble worshippers of Jehovah by a "voiceless beast of burden", the effect was to hinder "the prophet's mad course" 2Pet.2:16. In using the Greek word "paraphronia" Peter indicates that Balaam was engaged in an act of madness or insanity and manifesting a symptom of mental disorder. A related word, "anoia" is used to describe the "sensless rage" of the Pharisees at Jesus' supposed violation of their Sabbath Laws (Luke 16:11), and also by Paul when actually describing the activity of those other ancient opposers of Jehovah's people, Jannes and Jambres. He spoke of them being completely "corrupted in mind" and that this corruption was plainly evident in the "folly" (anoia) of their action against Moses. (2Tim.3:9).
By the same token, modern day apostates exhibit they are "corrupted in mind", clearly exhibiting "folly" along with "senseless rage" and manifestly engaged in a "mad course". 
There is a PC language argument these days for avoiding the use of the word "disease" in connection with mental disorder, even the term "mental illness" is being questioned. This is due to the innapropriate reactions of  people to such terms. Over time, terms may gather an emotive potential which may provoke an inappropriate response in many. This reactive tendency is exploited by propagandists of which Christian apostates are a sub-division.   
However, no amount of feel-good euphemism can disguise the fact that Christian apostasy is abhorrent, contagious, and death dealing, whatever metaphor is used to describe it. Given the facts, it is also a mainfestation of insanity or madness. Many translators seem to agree:
2Pet.2:16:
New International Version
But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey--an animal without speech--who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
New Living Translation
But Balaam was stopped from his mad course when his donkey rebuked him with a human voice.
English Standard Version
but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
Berean Study Bible
But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
Berean Literal Bible
But he had reproof for his own transgression by a mute donkey; having spoken in a man's voice, it restrained the madness of the prophet.
New American Standard Bible
but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
New King James Version
but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
King James Bible
But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
Christian Standard Bible
but received a rebuke for his lawlessness: A speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
Contemporary English Version
But a donkey corrected him for this evil deed. It spoke to him with a human voice and made him stop his foolishness.
Good News Translation
and was rebuked for his sin. His donkey spoke with a human voice and stopped the prophet's insane action.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
but received a rebuke for his transgression: A donkey that could not talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's irrationality.
International Standard Version
But he was rebuked for his offense. A donkey that normally cannot talk spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet's insanity.
NET Bible
yet was rebuked for his own transgression (a dumb donkey, speaking with a human voice, restrained the prophet's madness).
New Heart English Bible
but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But the reproof of his violation was a dumb donkey which spoke with the voice of men, restraining the madness of the Prophet.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
But he was convicted for his evil. A donkey, which normally can't talk, spoke with a human voice and wouldn't allow the prophet to continue his insanity.
New American Standard 1977
but he received a rebuke for his own transgression; for a dumb donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.
Jubilee Bible 2000
and was rebuked for his iniquity; a dumb animal accustomed to a yoke (upon which he was seated), speaking with man's voice, hindered the madness of the prophet.
King James 2000 Bible
But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
American King James Version
But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
American Standard Version
but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But had a check of his madness, the dumb beast used to the yoke, which speaking with man's voice, forbade the folly of the prophet.
Darby Bible Translation
but had reproof of his own wickedness -- [the] dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the folly of the prophet.
English Revised Version
but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet.
Webster's Bible Translation
But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice, forbad the madness of the prophet.
Weymouth New Testament
But he was rebuked for his transgression: a dumb ass spoke with a human voice and checked the madness of the Prophet.
World English Bible
but he was rebuked for his own disobedience. A mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and stopped the madness of the prophet.
Young's Literal Translation
and had a rebuke of his own iniquity -- a dumb ass, in man's voice having spoken, did forbid the madness of the prophet.

Yes. I wrote up a post on this at the time and included how other translations handled the verse. An excerpt:   (from https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/who-is-mentally-diseased.html )
“Moreover, “mentally diseased” was placed in quotation marks, indicating it was not meant as a medical diagnosis, but as an adjective to suggest a manner of thinking. Nor is the term anything original. It is merely a repeat of the Bible verse 1 Timothy 6:3-4....“If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words.”
...Douay-Rheims says ‘sick about questions and strifes of words.’ In view of the context, what sort of ‘sickness’ do you think the translator had in mind? Tuberculosis, maybe? Or is it not a sickness of thinking, so that ‘mentally diseased’ is not such a bad rendering after all? NASB...offers ‘morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words.’ Does ‘morbid,’ when applied to thinking, suggest balance and soundness of mind? Or is ‘sickness,’ even ‘mentally diseased,’ more to the point?”
Here’s a few other translations:
‘diseased’ (Emphasized New Testament; Rotherham)
‘filled with a sickly appetite’ (Epistles of Paul, W.J.Conybeare)
‘morbid appetite’ (A New Testament: A Translation in the Language of the People; Charles Williams)
‘morbid craving’ (An American Translation; Goodspeed)
‘unhealthy love of questionings’ (New Testament in Basic English)
‘morbidly keen’ (NEB)
‘unhealthy desire to argue’ (Good News Bible).
“Do any of these other versions suggest soundness of mind? So the NWT’s ‘mentally diseased’ is an entirely valid offering, even if more pointed than most. Plus, once again, the term is an adjective, as it is in all other translations, not a medical diagnosis. Context (in that Watchtower article) made this application abundantly clear.”

I like the description at 2Tim.2:17: "their word will spread like gangrene" (Gk γάγγραινα: gangraina). Doesn't seem to present any translation difficulty?

Buddy, you have to understand what an Apostate, and you also have to understand why and how they other term is used because you literally just ignore the passage in Timothy.

It isn't straightforward, amigo, you took a bite out of an oreo and put it back in the package on this one when people noticed on this one. You are only ADDING that they are on par with Jehovah because what you said before doesn't add up. I even told you where you saw them verbally say that, but nothing...

There's always a hate group linked with any group of people, organization, school, etc. Even for us in the truth. We already had a run in with ExJws in the past and the county and it's people were on our side. Not to mentioned they turned a non religious dude until an extremely protective defender who now sees all ExJws as enemies. Thankfully his girlfriend ruminates the tension this dude has.
And theres neutral people who just wants to learn about Jehovah's Witnesses, for instance, the funniest thing a month or two ago we had a Spiderman cosplayer (a guy in the Spider-Verse suit) asking for a NWT Bible and was curious about JWs to one of the brothers who were outside.
With the things going on now, I can care less about hate groups because they want progress or solutions and go about these things in a way that makes them look like the bad guys. Not to mention the one track mindedness mentality they rock on the daily. 

@JW Insider got it. Also realizing this was the thread lol.