Patiently waiting for Truth

Quote ' If not, what's the point in wanting to be Christian if obedience is not is one's heart. Baptism is a direct pledge to God. '

Obedience to God through Christ is what is required. And baptism is to God through Christ too. 

Neither requires obedience to men or an organisation. 

"There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes, but has not been cleansed from its filth.” 

Thanks @TrueTomHarley that fits your GB and CCJW very well.

I did read it all as you knew I would, and I laughed all through it. Thank you for giving me something to laugh at. 

As I've mentioned before though, it seems your only purpose for being on this forum is to promote your own writings/books. I see that as selfish but you probably see it as opportunity. 

If Australia (CCJW) started recording CSA accusations over 50 years ago then America being the starting point of the religion, would surely have started recording CSA before that. So the leaders, even prior to there being a GB, would have known about the problem. Besides which, if the CCJW was in any way inspired by God, they would have been well prepared to sort it out when it first started. If God gave the Nation of Israel guidelines, why would he not give His so called 'chosen organisation' guidelines ? 

And of course TTH deliberately fails to mention that, in the 1st century, Christians WERE INSPIRED OF GOD. Hence 1st century Christians were given guidance by God's Holy Spirit. THEY DID NOT DO IMPORTANT THINGS, OF THEIR OWN ABILITY. 

Whereas the leaders of CCJW, the GB, are NOT inspired of GOD, so are not capable of doing important things, such as guiding God's people. 

And as TTH seems to like going on about CSA. One more important point is this. IT IS NOT ONLY THE CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE ITSELF, THAT IS THE CRIME AND SIN, BUT IT IS THE HIDING OF PAEDOPHILES IN THE CONGREGATIONS, AND KEEPING SECRET THE INFORMATION OF SEXUAL ABUSE, THE TELLING LIES, THE REFUSING TO COOPERATE WITH THE 'SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES' (who are set in place by God), THE DESTRUCTION OF HARD COPY PAPERWORK, AND THE ATTITUDE OF THE GB AND OTHERS IN 'AUTHORITY' WITHIN THE CCJW. 

ONE PAEDOPHILE IN ONE CONGREGATION CAN ABUSE 5 OR 10, OR 20 CHILDREN OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS. 

So TTH, it's not the number of paedophiles in CCJW that is the only issue. 

Oh how these followers of MEN are showing their hurt and pain at being exposed. 

Dear TTH is trying so hard to put me to shame, and for what ?  Asking someone's opinion on matters. 

Where as what does TTH offer in spiritual thoughts and words ?  

To quote TTH " The very idea is so preposterous—a true anointed to appear out of who-knows-where at the final moments of this system of things, with just enough time for the true sheep of the earth to recognize, grab hold of them, and thereby save themselves at the final day. It’s just too ridiculous. "

Firstly I never said 'at the final moments of this system of things'. I said that 'in my opinion' it would be another 10 years before Judgement Day, and the true Anointed would be known long before that. As for 'the true sheep of the earth' that is the expression of TTH not me. And as for thereby save themselves, um, I always thought it was God through Christ, that did the 'saving' not the people saving themselves. 

My feelings are that TTH thinks all miracles are just too ridiculous. to actually believe. Showing a complete lack of faith. 

As for LHMcN I think he needs to re-read scripture about worshipping. 

Quote "Are you saying, witnesses are actively worshiping the GB?' 

Yes they are worshipping the GB and the writing dept and JW Org. JWs have been worshipping the Organisation since it's birth. The early 1970's was proof positive of such. When GOD'S WRITTEN WORD makes it so clear that humans will not know the day or the hour, BUT an Organisation's leaders tells its congregants that  Armageddon will be in the early to mid 1970's, and so those congregants obey the instruction of their leaders against the instructions of GOD'S WORD, then those congregants are worshipping the leaders of that Organisation. 

Further more the name Jehovah seems to be less relevant now to that Org as the JW Org logo seems to take precedence.

A federal judge in San Francisco ruled a Redditor’s posts citing Watch Tower’s copyrighted works were fair use but that online free speech “is a developing area where the standards are far from settled.”

Reddit will not have to turn over the identity of a user to the organizational body of the Jehovah’s Witness faith after a judge ruled Monday in a copyright dispute with major potential implications for online free speech.

In a 16-page order, U.S. District Judge James Donato of the Northern District of California found that a Reddit contributor’s posts critiquing the church and its administrative body, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, were a non-infringing fair use of the group’s copyrighted works.

Rejecting a magistrate judge’s prior recommendation, Donato granted a motion to quash a subpoena from Watch Tower seeking identifying information of a Redditor known as Darkspilver. The subpoena, issued to Reddit last January, sought Darkspilver’s subscriber information, name, telephone number, address, email and IP addresses, under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Reddit declined to respond to the subpoena, and the Electronic Frontier Foundation intervened on behalf of the anonymous user.

“The only authorized purpose for the subpoena under the DMCA was to discover his identity as an alleged copyright infringer to protect Watch Tower’s copyrights,” Donato said. “If Darkspilver establishes that he made fair use of the copyrighted works, no claim of copyright infringement could plausibly be alleged against him, and the subpoena would not be authorized under the DMCA.”

Last May, U.S. Magistrate Judge Sallie Kim of the Northern District of California ruled that Reddit must reveal the identity of the user, but only to attorneys involved in the case. Donato said Kim’s approach of applying the First Amendment to anonymous online speech was problematic. “It is a developing area where the standards are far from settled,” he wrote.

Donato also said that Kim’s invocation of the two-part test for anonymous speech the Northern District of California developed in 2005 in Highfields Capital Management v. Doe did not involve the key elements of copyright or the DMCA. “Highfields, the source of the test, involved claims sounding in trademark and unfair competition, but not copyright law or fair use,” he said.

When it came to the fair use arguments, the judge said that Watch Tower failed to challenge any of the evidence.

“Instead, it offers the general challenge that the inquiry is ‘woefully premature’ because

fair use is an affirmative defense that can’t be considered unless and until a complaint is on file,” according to the opinion. “This is a surprising proposition given that Watch Tower was required to evaluate fair use before sending its take-down notice to Reddit, and that Watch Tower and its attorney represented they had done that. They are not well situated to say now that the inquiry should wait.”

Reddit and Alex Moss of the Electronic Frontier Foundation did not respond to a request for comment Monday evening.

Watch Tower’s counsel, Paul D. Polidoro, an in-house lawyer for Watch Tower in Warwick, New York, and Anthony Smith of the Law Office of Anthony V. Smith in San Mateo, California, also did not respond to a message requesting comment late Monday.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I seriously cannot under why the GB / Watchtower are spending Congregant's money on such court cases. 

Matthew 5 v 38 through 42 states quite clearly 

“You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a ³⁹  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b ⁴⁰  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c ⁴¹  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. ⁴²  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.d

The GB and their Lawyers obviously do not live by this scripture. 

It is very sad to see those people that pretend to serve God, but are making is so so clear on this forum that they serve an Organisation run by men. That they have to take a serious subject and mock it purely because they cannot stand truth, or are too frightened to examine their own personal reasons for serving men instead of serving God through Christ. 

It would be so easy to pull apart everything they say, but I'm sure the scriptures tell us not  to argue with such ones. They have set themselves in a comfortable position whereby they just follow the rules and teachings of 8 men and a writing department, even though they know that those 8 men and writing department are not inspired by God's holy spirit. 

It reminds me of millions of people following a young girl, Greta something or other. Some people just have to follow another person or group of people. They have to have a physical person or object to see and serve with their human eyes. Did they never have a spiritual 'eye' ? Could they never see with their hearts the things set before us by God. 

I suggest that those people spend more time reading the scriptures. Rebuild your faith in God.

Remember that ALMIGHTY GOD CAN DO MIRACLES. And that HE CAN SUPPLY HOLY SPIRIT for whatever purpose HE chooses. 

If Gods wants to put new leaders in place, or if God wants to have a new Organisation, can you stop Him?

Are you so proud of the GB and what it has done ? Are you proud of all the failure in JW Org ? Do you honestly think God and Christ are proud of the GB and JW Org ? 

And the main question I suppose for each of us is, Would YOU make adjustments in YOU OWN life to serve God properly through Christ and not through men ?

Time will tell. And God's plans will move forward with or without any of us. 

Soon may God's name be sanctified.

Soon may God's will be done here on this Earth as it is being done in heaven. 

@JJJ-AUSTRALIA I agree with you, but my point was that God can use His holy spirit to cause miracles to do anything He wants to.

Therefore, IF God wanted to use the CCJW / Watchtower / JW Org then God is able to make those organisations useful for Himself. Otherwise God will need to either use another org' or start a completely new 'religion' / Org.

There are different opinions but in some form or another the International Bible Students Association / Bible Students, changed and became the Jehovah's Witnesses, which i think is now called the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses CCJW. So it has already changed names a few times, though still not serving God properly. But it could change name again and be led by true Anointed ones that are inspired of holy spirit and then it could be brought inline with God's purposes through Christ. 

Or do you think God will start a completely new organisation / religion ? 

1 hour ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

If there was to be a reform by some miracle in my opinion

2 witness rule has to go

Shunning has to go

GB has to go

Jesus has to get his importance

And power and status has to go

Hours in the ministry has to go

And the secrecy and many rules has to go.

Cheers  4jah2me

Thank you, and I agree with you on many of those.

I'll quote you though ".... by some miracle....."

And I Will quote @James Thomas Rook Jr. " You are living in a fantasy world of unreasonable expectations ".

Now lets think back to Bible times.  

A large group of people arrive at a large body of water, and these people are being chased by a nasty enemy. And you can hear one of these people say "It would take a miracle to get across that water and away from our enemy. God, Moses, Red Sea = miracle.

And then lets think of a man, the most wonderful man ever to have walked this Earth. But wait he's been killed, hung up to suffer and die. And you can imagine His followers thinking that it's all over and that they will never see Him again. But then the miracle, Jesus is resurrected. 

Tell me, where is your faith ?  Have you all stopped believing in miracles. 

More excuses for not answering simple questions. 

Most of what is written on this and many other forums is only opinions. Most conversation in the real world is only opinion. Global warming / climate change for one example. So many opinions not so many true facts.

The use of blood and blood fractions in the JW world is another. But then it's called conscience not opinion. 

Even to the point, as the GB are not inspired, neither is the Writing Department, then all they say and write is only their opinions. BUT JWs live their lives by the opinions of the GB and Watchtower magazine. Those opinions are regularly wrong, proven by the FACT that they have to keep changing their opinions and writings.. 

Your using the excuse of being a Barbarian, to pretend that your 'reality' is more real that anyone elses, is only your opinion. But each person's reality is different. 

But never mind James, if you do not wish to answer a few small basic questions, so be it. 

55 minutes ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

Like what my PIMI friends said, the only changes needed are the ones that Jehovah wants otherwise no need for changes. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

But as the GB and JW Org are not inspired of God how will they ever know ?  

I notice that those people who think they are serving God properly through the CCJW cannot or will not answer the questions I've asked.

I do hope in fact that I am judged by God's standards through Christ. 

And i don't know of anyone that expects perfection in any human. 

But I don't use the world's standards as an excuse to drop my standards, and i wouldn't expect an organisation that says it is God's only means of salvation, to drop their standards either. 

My feeling is concerning the two 'brothers' above, that they are almost frightened to think about the changes needed to bring the CCJW up to God's expected standards. 

I know God does not expect perfection from humans but I think He does expect people to make a strong effort.     (Watchtower online library)

“Exert Yourselves Vigorously”!

“Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able.”—Luke 13:24.

However, my point of 'changes needed' relates to time left to make such changes before the coming judgement. And to, what i presume would be, a 'great influx' of people, into 'God's chosen organisation'.

I still think it will be a few years before the whole CSA problem is sorted and with the possibility of the CCJW losing charitable status in some countries, there could be great financial losses ahead. But if a true Anointed are 'raised up' within the CCJW then things could move forward quicker, as the org would be more likely to receive God's holy spirit. On the other hand, God might just build another organisation through Christ, using Anointed ones that are not wanted by the CCJW.  

.  

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

 

Your questions would require a rehashing of things already identified many, many times on this forum, so I will respond instead with an observation:

Jehovah's Witnesses are a Nation, without territory.

Like any nation, they have to fight the good fight with the Army they have ... not the Army they WISH they had.

The Polish had to fight the Nazi Tanks, with horse drawn carriages of various sorts.

Until I could afford specialized tools, I had to use general tools for specific applications.

Those who expect perfection of others in all things, I strongly suspect will be judged by God, using those same standards... and their punishment now is having to live in a cartoon world of their own construct, and being oblivious to reality.

 

 

This comment did not answer the question and may just as well have been a comment about the flavour of bananas  

Quote @Leander H. McNelly  " Maintain the spiritual stance of obedience to the almighty. "

The obedience to Almighty God is through Jesus Christ, not through CCJW / JW Org / GB. 

If a person honestly feels, through prayer and deep study and meditation on God's word, that the GB and the Watchtower / JW Org are wrong, then that person has to take action to break away from that 'bad association'. 

As to the promise in baptism, the JW Org baptism is not done in accordance to scripture. You will know that of course. 

  If the CCJW is going to be God's / Christ's chosen Organisation to bring humans through 

Armageddon / Judgement Day

What serious changes need to take place in it first ?

As you know my feelings are that neither God nor Christ can use the CCJW as it is. But I am seriously trying to think on a more spiritual level so I'm trying not to be biased. By reading many comments on this forum I've noticed that even those JWs that resolve to stay firmly in the 'Org', still have some feelings of discontent. 

So the question I'm asking is more to those JWs who are remaining 'faithful' to the CCJW and it's GB. 

Do you see the need for big changes in the way the CCJW is run ?

Do you really believe that God & Christ are happy with the CCJW as it is ?

I am not deviating from my belief of a 'true Anointed' being 'raised up' in these 'last day', but as I've said before that 'true anointed' could well be within the CCJW.

I'm keeping my mind 'open' to all manner of thoughts, whilst trying to, hopefully with God's guidance, find truth. 

However, I am of the opinion that 'new light' via the GB, will not provide the answers or right direction that is needed. But that is just my personal opinion, and I may be proven wrong................

20 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Here is a list of scriptures showing how deeply our heavenly Father Jehovah God wants to forgive our sins and give us everlasting life. This God proves to us, by going so far that He sent his most loved Son Jesus Christ to earth to teach us and die for our sins in a most painful way.

  So if we feel that we have failed one day, we can be sure we are forgiven if we try better next day. Our sanctification is not possible in one day. So we have to keep on trying to do better everyday. That is a repentive attitude we need in our ongoing sanctification.

 

 

John 3:16  “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17  For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.

 

1 Timothy 2:3  This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4  whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6  who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.

 

Romans 5:8 But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9  Much more, then, since we have now been declared righteous by his blood, will we be saved through him from wrath. 10  For if when we were enemies we became reconciled to God through the death of his Son,

 

Titus 3:3  For we too were once senseless, disobedient, led astray, being slaves to various desires and pleasures, carrying on in badness and envy, detestable, hating one another. 4  However, when the kindness of our Savior, God, and his love for mankind were manifested 5  (not because of any righteous works we had done, but because of his own mercy), he saved us by means of the bath that brought us to life and by making us new by holy spirit. 6  He poured this spirit out richly on us through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that after being declared righteous through the undeserved kindness of that one, we might become heirs according to a hope of everlasting life.

 

Luke 18:10  “Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11  The Pharisee stood and began to pray these things to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like everyone else—extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12  I fast twice a week; I give the tenth of all things I acquire.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing at a distance, was not willing even to raise his eyes heavenward but kept beating his chest, saying, ‘O God, be gracious to me, a sinner.’ 14  I tell you, this man went down to his home and was proved more righteous than that Pharisee. Because everyone who exalts himself will be humiliated, but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

Luke 5:30….“Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31  In reply Jesus said to them: “Those who are healthy do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. 32  I have come to call, not righteous people, but sinners to repentance.”

 

Luke 7:44  With that he turned to the woman and said to Simon: “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet. But this woman wet my feet with her tears and wiped them off with her hair. 45  You gave me no kiss, but this woman, from the hour that I came in, did not stop tenderly kissing my feet. 46 You did not pour oil on my head, but this woman poured perfumed oil on my feet. 47 Because of this, I tell you, her sins, many though they are, are forgiven, because she loved much. But the one who is forgiven little, loves little.” 48  Then he said to her: “Your sins are forgiven.” 49 Those reclining at the table with him started to say among themselves: “Who is this man who even forgives sins?” 50  But he said to the woman: “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

 

2 Timothy 1: 9  He saved us and called us with a holy calling, not because of our works, but because of his own purpose and undeserved kindness. This was given to us in connection with Christ Jesus before times long ago,

 

Ephesians 2:8  By this undeserved kindness you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing; rather, it is God’s gift. 9  No, it is not a result of works, so that no one should have grounds for boasting. 10  We are God’s handiwork and were created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God determined in advance for us to walk in them.

 

Romans 10:9  For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

 

Hebrews 10:10  By this “will” we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time. ….14  For it is by one sacrificial offering that he has made those who are being sanctified perfect for all time. 15  Moreover, the holy spirit also bears witness to us, for after it has said: 16 “‘This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.’” 17  Then it says: “And I will no longer call their sins and their lawless deeds to mind.” 18  Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. 19  Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20  which he opened up for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22  let us approach with sincere hearts and complete faith, having had our hearts sprinkled clean from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water.

 

Hebrews 9:28  so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin, and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation.

 

Colossians 1:13…...his beloved Son, 14  by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.

 

Ephesians 1:7  By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness.

 

Acts 26:17….I am sending you [apostle Paul] 18  to open their eyes, to turn them from darkness to light and from the authority of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those sanctified by their faith in me.’

 

Acts 13:37  On the other hand, the one whom God raised up did not see corruption. 38  “Let it therefore be known to you, brothers, that through this one a forgiveness of sins is being proclaimed to you, 39  and that from all the things from which you could not be declared guiltless by means of the Law of Moses, everyone who believes is declared guiltless by means of this one.

 

Acts 10:34  At this Peter began to speak, and he said: “Now I truly understand that God is not partial, 35  but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. 36 He sent out the word to the sons of Israel to declare to them the good news of peace through Jesus Christ—this one is Lord of all. 37  You know the subject that was talked about throughout all Ju·deʹa, starting from Galʹi·lee after the baptism that John preached: 38 about Jesus who was from Nazʹa·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil, because God was with him. 39  And we are witnesses of all the things he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem; but they did away with him by hanging him on a stake. 40 God raised this one up on the third day and allowed him to become manifest, 41 not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God, to us, who ate and drank with him after his rising from the dead.42  Also, he ordered us to preach to the people and to give a thorough witness that this is the one decreed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

 

Luke 24:45 5  Then he [Jesus] opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures, 46  and he said to them, “This is what is written: that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day, 47  and on the basis of his name, repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached in all the nations—starting out from Jerusalem. 48  You are to be witnesses of these things.

 

Acts 3:19  “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that seasons of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself 20  and he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus.

 

Hebrews 12:14  Pursue peace with all people and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord.

 

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

@Kosonen  Your research here and topic is well timed for me. Thank you

I am praying more each day and always ask for forgiveness of my sins. But of course some days feel better than others.

There always seems to be too many 'physical things' to do each day, so sometimes spiritual things / thoughts get pushed to one side... 

The 'Sunday meetings' (and the evening meeting) at the Kingdom Hall did have / or should have had, that opportunity to rid one's mind of all other thoughts and just think on a spiritual level. However the 'food' on offer was not spiritual food from God through Christ and the underlying 'goings on', were not good, so I classed it as bad association. 

Now I have to try to take time out and make myself think on a spiritual level. This is one of the things I ask God for, for direction toward serving Him. 

Perhaps some of us are thinking on more spiritual matters. 

And of course some of us do not live under the GB's CCJW rules.

Have a good day James. 

3 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Hi Jah4me2, I just created a new topic you in mind about God's willingness to forgive us, according to Scriptures.

Thank you. I've just read it. It is very encouraging. 

ACTS 2 V 16 , 17  & 18.

 On the contrary, this is what was said through the prophet Joel: ¹⁷  ‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams,l ¹⁸  and even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy

Jerusalem had the end of it's 'last days' in 70 C. E. But prior to that a 'miracle' happened.  Acts 2 v 1 through 11.

 Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. ²  Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. ³  And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, ⁴  and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.⁵  At that time devout Jews from every nation under heaven were staying in Jerusalem. ⁶  So when this sound occurred, a crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. ⁷  Indeed, they were utterly amazed and said: “See here, all these who are speaking are Gal·i·leʹans, are they not? ⁸  How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language? ⁹  Parʹthi·ans, Medes,g and Eʹlam·ites, the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the province of Asia, ¹⁰  Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the regions of Libʹy·a near Cy·reʹne, sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,j ¹¹  Creʹtans, and Arabians—we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God.

We are again in 'the last days', so why would you be surprised if God should pour out some of HIS SPIRIT on a true Anointed group of humans. 

Where is your faith ? Do you no longer believe in God's power ? Do you no longer believe that God can do 'miracles' ?

Your GB have admitted to NOT BEING INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT.

Yet here we have in scripture, God's promise that HE WILL POUR OUT SOME OF HIS SPIRIT in the 'last days'. 

Are we in those LAST DAYS or not ? Do you expect God to act or not ? Or are you just physical men ? 

Have you lost your 'spiritual eyes' ? Did you in fact even have 'spiritual eyes' ? Are you relying on men and not on God through Christ ? 

I do not see myself worthy of anointing, not worthy of life in a paradise earth. 

I realise that my sins stack up to the heavens..  Only through God's mercy and Christ's judgement will I even get a resurrection. But if I can do even the smallest of things to help God's purpose move forward then I will have been blessed. 

3 hours ago, Anna said:

True, and this is why it can be said that those who leave the Christian congregation, or those who become Christians in name only, generally stop producing the fruitage of the spirit because Jehovah no longer gives it to them.....they "receive" a rebelious spirit instead. I see this plainly whenever I visit the ex-JW website and read their banter with each other. For the most part there is no mildness, patience, faith or self control. More like selfishness, sarcasm, haughtiness, and of course no faith....

Oh @Anna you make me laugh. you really do. Are you so blind ?

Do you not know of the perversions and immorality in your CCJW ? 

Do you honestly think that Almighty God and/or Christ is guiding your GB and its org ?

I think that your GB are Christians in name only. I think that CCJW is Christian in name only.

You only have to look at the way the GB's Lawyers treat Victims of CSA. And look at how they are still hiding Paedophiles in the American part of your Org. 

And there have been plenty of things mentioned on this forum, mentioned by JWs it would seem, that show up the CCJW for what it really is. 

Going back a couple of years we had JWs on here telling how many weapons they have stored up in their homes. and one of those JWs seems to think that God is not bothered by war. 

I'm sure you have heard many JWs say things that you are not happy with, so please don't be so quick to judge others outside of CCJW. 

As a non active one, i can say that my faith in God and Christ is much stronger.  I feel 'free' to do my own investigating into God's word. i think in a more spiritual way. My prayers are not hindered. I am not putting my trust in men. I am not relying on being spoon fed every Sunday Watchtower which is only men's thoughts and words. Those thoughts and words which are not inspired of God. 

And you must remember too, that your GB and its org deliberately shun anyone that leaves the Org. So your GB and its Org members are also not showing love, mercy, mildness or kindness. 

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I thought I was pointing out something that was obvious. The spirit may very well reveal a specific assignment in heaven or on earth. But it's the same spirit. Regarding Galatians 5:22, have you ever heard anyone say that the fruitage of the spirit (love, joy, peace . . . kindness, goodness, faith, etc.) is only for those who are anointed? No one ever says that. Except that the entire book of Galatians was sent to those addressed like this:

(Galatians 4:6, 7) . . .Now because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, and it cries out: “Abba, Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave but a son; and if a son, then you are also an heir through God.

To the Romans, Paul said the same things he says in Galatians 4&5:

(Romans 8:14-17) 14 For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” 16 The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together.

The statements are about how there are only two choices, the spirit or the flesh. So I'm not saying anything about the specific anointing for the heavenly hope. That's a separate issue. Whether we believe we are appointed to a heavenly hope or appointed to an earthly hope, it's still the same "one hope, one faith, one baptism" for the creation which is currently sighing and groaning to eagerly await the revealing of the sons of God. If Adam was a son of God, although appointed to an earthly hope, then surely there will come a time when those who pass through the millennium, at least, although of the earthly hope, will also be considered "sons of God." I also believe that this same spirit will reveal a desire for a heavenly hope for some, although I don't really believe that we humans are really capable of knowing exactly where Jehovah may wish to assign our part in the new system.

(1 Corinthians 12:22-26) . . .On the contrary, the members of the body that seem to be weaker are necessary, 23 and the parts of the body that we think to be less honorable we surround with greater honor, so our unseemly parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 whereas our attractive parts do not need anything. Nevertheless, God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that had a lack, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but its members should have mutual concern for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all the other members suffer with it; or if a member is glorified, all the other members rejoice with it.

Remember that the first will be last, and the last first, etc. Those who seat themselves at the front can be sent to the back and vice versa. There are vessels of all kinds, and we are "glorified" whether we end up taking a seat at God's footstool or a place at the right hand of Jesus.

(Romans 8:18-25) . . .For I consider that the sufferings of the present time do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is going to be revealed in us. 19 For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom. 24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.

So maybe Paul is giving ALL of us this idea about accepting the spirit into our hearts, the same spirit that makes Christians adopted as sons. The same spirit that makes all of "brothers." Do you think only the anointed should pray, "Our Father in heaven, let your name be sanctified?" If Jehovah is our Father then we are his children, his sons. We would therefore call him "Abba" in Aramaic. This is not an intimate expression special to the anointed. It does not mean "papa" or "daddy" in some childish sense. It's the word that adults also used in Aramaic to refer to their father respectfully. This is also made clear by what Jesus is recorded as saying in Matthew:

(Matthew 23:8, 9) . . .and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father [Aramaic, "Abba"], the heavenly One.

It has nothing to do with what the governing body is supposedly saying. Also, the governing body has never said, and will never likely ever say, that the elders are part of the 144,000. The elders will never be considered a part of Christ's body except to the small extent that they represent and help deliver the spiritual food provided by the faithful slave.

I totally disagree with this comment and I'll repeat what I said, that in my opinion you are taking the side of your GB and trying very hard to bring down the true Anointed to a lower level. 

I've said many times that i believe the Greek scriptures were written to and for the Anointed.  I do not believe that the GB are anointed as 'by their works you will know them'. So therefore i do not believe that the GB understand God's word properly at all. 

In my opinion the Earthly class are only helpers of the Anointed, but do not have the same Bible understanding. Hence I believe that a True Anointed will 'rise up' when other 'certain things happen'.

I know i must be careful of my words, since John Butler was D/FED from this forum. 

Mr Houston, you seem to be putting your faith in the GB and an Organisation, not in God through Christ.

The CCJW seems to be proving 'by their works' that they are not God's organisation, so why would you want to follow them in their wrong course ? 

And as for your question, quote :- " How would the 12 run things today ? "

It appears that the Twelve didn't run things back then. Remember that they didn't live long and that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 C E.  It would also seem as if the Apostle Paul did most of the letter writing to the congregations, not the Twelve. So it wasn't a governing body back then, that your GB pretend it was. 

Quote @JW Insider 

" So the primary purpose of God sending the spirit into the hearts of Christians, a kind of anointing by holy spirit, is so that we will produce the fruitage that grows from that spirit: ...."

No, I don't like this, it looks sly. You are suggesting here that ALL Christians are receiving an Anointing by Holy Spirit.  This seems to follow on from @Witness idea of all elders being part of the 144,000. 

I reject your idea here. 

Quote " But questioning everything would require every one of us to become scholars "

This is one of my points. What does God and Christ expect of us ? 

Quote " A major concern of yours has been that only a modern-day anointing by holy spirit will explain everything to us, and you always tend to push this off into the future, although you recognize that it is needed now. " 

I do not push it off into the distant future. The True Anointed may already exist, but maybe the time is not right for them to be used by God or Christ. If God/Christ intend to use the CCJW then that org needs to be cleaned out first. But the true Anointed could be within that org. It's not the anointing that would be new, its the use of those ones that would be new.. A bit like sleepers, spies in a foreign land, there in place just waiting for the signal. 

Quote ".. and that even those of us who do not consider ourselves "anointed" must strive for the same measure of this holy spirit as those who consider themselves "anointed."

I do not agree with this comment.  I think you are working with the new ideas of the GB it would seem. 

You will have everyone saying that they are the Body of Christ soon. 

(Galatians 3:29-5:26) . . .Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s [seed] offspring, heirs with reference to a promise. .. . . 3 Likewise, we too, when we were children, were enslaved by the elementary things of the world. 4 But when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent his Son, who was born of a woman and who was under law, 5 that he might release by purchase those under law, so that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Now because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, . 

This is purely for the Anointed. 

Enough for one comment. 

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Would you please give me a link of the topic

1st Century Christians, Leaders, Apostle Paul Letters to the congregations.

Unfortunately people like @Leander H. McNelly aka Billy the Kid, can be expected to lower the tone of a spiritual conversation. 

So he is best ignored. 

Hello @Srecko Sostar Thank you, and i can see that you also are looking deeper into spiritual things. 

Quote "How much is reasonable is to expect and believe that all these "gifts from spirit" described in Bible books, and in 1st century especially, are unique ONLY for past period. 

I agree with you, and I feel that inspiration from God's holy spirit is needed now. 

Quote "And of course, what of writings are truly inspired by God, and what was just history (true or little made up)? "

Have you seen the list of writings that @JW Insider kindly supplied on my other recent topic ?

It will take me many months to even just browse all of them.  Where i have started to look it has caused questions for me. 

I have a fear that many people join CCJW / JW Org, so that they do not have to think for themselves. 

But on leaving that 'situation' one has a choice. One can go back into the world, or, one can seek spiritual things. 

I do firmly believe that God, through Christ, will give spiritual inspiration to the true Anointed sometime in the near future. It would seem unfair ( to me ) that God and Christ would expect humans to unravel truth from lies, and to be able to completely work out Bible prophecies without Holy Spirit for guidance.