Patiently waiting for Truth

I suppose that's what happens when a person becomes part of the world and starts to dabble in politics   Even the old Elder himself, Mr Harley, seems knee deep in politics.  

10 minutes ago, Isabella said:

KOLEK, Patricia A. (Tisby)

 

KOLEK - Patricia A. (nee Tisby)
Of North Tonawanda, Sunday, February 2, 2020. Passed away peacefully at home in the presence of her loving husband Harry Kolek after 56 years, of marriage; dearest Mom of Christine Kolek and Karen Kolek-Clapsadle; loving Grandma of Trevor J. (Krysta) Clapsadle and Alexis C. Clapsadle; also survived by her aunt Theresa Florek and many cousins. Patricia was a devout Jehovah's Witness. No prior visitation. Family will be present to greet relatives and friends SUNDAY, February 16th at Kingdom Hall Of Jehovah's Witnesses, 7375 Nash Rd., North Tonawanda at 3:30 PM. Arrangements by the saber funeral home (692-0271).

https://buffalonews.com/2020/02/09/kolek-patricia-a-tisby/

 

Athur James (Jim) Russell

1923 - 2020

Jim fell asleep in death on January 16th, at the age of 96 in Napa, CA. An only child, Jim was born on September 4, 1923 in Alameda to Lloyd & Lillian (Ceriotti) Russell. He is survived by his children, Sandra (Ray) Beauchemin and Scott Russell, grandchildren Gabrielle (Todd) Kuchta and Travis (Sherry) Arnold, and great-grandchildren Jacob, Julian, and Raquel. Predeceased by his wife of 69 years, Betty and his son Stephen.

In 1942 he quit school and joined the Navy to see the world. After being discharged, Jim returned to Alameda, received his diploma and continued to work at the Alameda Air Force Base. As side job, he worked evenings at Rollerland Roller Skating Rink, where he helped a girl who was falling more than skating. Her name was Betty Lorraine Treantafel, they married 6 months later on November 12, 1944. Within 7 years they bought their first home and had their three children, Sandra, Stephen and Scott.

Jim and Betty were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses together on July 25, 1954. They made a lifelong career of helping more than 100 people learn the Bible’s clear teachings.

Known by many names, Jim, A.J., Dad, Grandpa, Uncle and Brother. He lived a life of love and self-sacrifice giving to his 6 generations of family, caring for aged grandparents, then for his aged parents, spending much of his life caring for his chronically handicapped son, Steve, as well as his other children, his grandchildren & great-grandchildren. He will forever be known as one who put his God Jehovah first, his stories many, his travels much, his life well lived. We look forward to seeing his crystal blue eyes when he wakes up in the earthly paradise.

A memorial service will be held at 2:00 on Feb 15, 2020 at the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, 1976 Wise Dr, Napa, CA 94558.

 

https://napavalleyregister.com/lifestyles/announcements/obituaries/athur-james-jim-russell/article_eb03ea25-f989-54a9-a6d6-fa76c1fc04db.html

Such lucky ones, that sleep in death, awaiting the resurrection.

So peaceful, aware of nothing, no time no place. No worries, no concerns. 

But on a wonderful and peaceful day they will live again. 

John 15 v 7 " If you remain in union with me and my sayings remain in you, ask whatever you wish and it will take place for you "

Mark 11 v 24  This is why I tell you, all the things you pray and ask for, have faith that you have received them, and you will have them.

Matthew 21 v 22 And all the things you ask in prayer, having faith, you will receive.”

When did this stop and why ?  Was it only for the 'Twelve' ?  Was it only for the Anointed of the 1st Century ? 

The Governing Body say they are not inspired of God. But the Bible says the scriptures are inspired of God. 

So, when did this inspiration stop ?

If the GB are, which they present themselves to be, a follow on from the '12 and the older men', the first Christians, then why is the CCJW and Watchtower in such a mess ? Why are they not inspired by God's Holy spirit ? 

It's such a simple question. Just reason on it. IF, God wants / needs to have / wants to use, an Organisation of humans, the why isn't he inspiring them with Holy spirit ? 

I'm not suggesting the 'laying on of hands', or 'miracles of material things'. But why not true guidance ?

Just read those three scriptures at the top again. You can see Jesus' promises. But they are not being fulfilled.

Why ?

Oh dear @TrueTomHarley I quote  " Countless persons are arrested with regard to child sexual abuse. Their religious affiliation or lack of is never reported. 

But then I quote " Unlike virtually anywhere else, where the leaders of an organization are themselves the abusers.." 

Um, Catholic church comes to mind Tom. But Tom you said  "Their religious affiliation or lack of is never reported." .... So if their 'religious affiliation' is never reported, then how come the Catholic church was being reported on long before the JW Org ?  

Quote : The current “gold standard” of child sexual abuse to “go beyond the law” will inevitably cause you problems with those who, not surprisingly, expect you to abide by law.

Which law Tom, God's or man's ?  Those people that love God and Christ would expect the GB and it's Org to obey God as ruler rather than men.  Whose 'law' and 'rules' and 'principles' do you live by Tom ? God's or man's ? 

Quote  " Therefore efforts to prevent it ought to be given at least as much creedence "

TOM, wake up. It hasn't been efforts to prevent it. It has been efforts to hide it. Elders have been allowed to remain in their positions even though it was known that they had been and still were sexually abusing children. 

Tom you are back to your old trick, but it does not work. There is NO POINT AT ALL comparing the GB and it's rotten Org to the world which belongs to the Devil. You should compare them to God's standards required for His people.  

Quote: .Tragically, it happens, and when it does Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law. 

Which law Tom, God's or man's ? And which law should they be following ?

Thank you @Witness  That was a lot of reading but well worth it. 

I'm sorry if I seem insulting toward Americans but there was such a big difference between calmly reading all that, or, listening to voices on video. Unfortunately the people  on video look as if they are cheering a ball game not reporting on something serious. 

But keep it up Witness, the more information available the better. Thank you again.

Sorry I cannot watch American videos because they just have toooooo much hype. 

It's on both sides of the fence, the GB and the news media. It must just be the 'American way'. 

Is there a link to a news article which i can actually read instead of listening to this ? 

I do not understand Kosonen's comment at all.

Quote " Former Jehovah's witnesses who turn to authorities to punish the WT organization "

Um, how about, former JWs that have to turn to the 'Superior Authorities' (authorised to be in place by God)  to get justice AND to warn others AND to show the hidden immorality and disgusting deeds of the GB and JW Org. 

It's not ex JWs punishing anyone, it's the legal system of the Superior Authorities doing their job.. 

And when the GB bark, all JWs jump. And every bark is a false alarm or a lie. 

Maybe the GB has as much intelligence as the dog. Certainly the GB has as much spiritual guidance as a dog. 

But hey, if the GB want to compare themselves with dogs, maybe they are waking up a bit. 

Um, an organisation, JW Org, run by dogs 

I thought JWs were 'no part of this world'. Um so even that is a lie. 

Quote @César Chávez " Does that mean, the government has FREE, reign in collecting information? NO! Many states are overstepping their authority to appease the masses, according to their own established laws. Those are the arguments being presented all around the world to the courts." 

But just read Jesus' words that God's servants SHOULD LIVE BY.

Matthew 5 v 38 through 42.

“You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a ³⁹  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b ⁴⁰  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c ⁴¹  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. ⁴²  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.

Do you see the huge difference in JWs attitude as different to Jesus' words ? 

So why oh why JWs, do you pretend to live by Bible 'rules' and principles ? 

This is good news. But I'm not one for wishing for massive payouts. 

I think it is clearly known by now that the GB and their Lawyers are dishonest, the Watchtower Soc and CCJW are run by those GB and lawyers, so are there by also dishonest. 

And Jesus said at Matthew 5 v 40 - 42

And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment; ⁴¹  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. ⁴²  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.

So, some balance is needed. The GB and their lawyers are greedy dishonest people. The lawyers of the victims are greedy and may be dishonest people. BUT, the victims are in the middle of it all. 

If the GB didn't use dishonest lawyers. If the GB served God and lived and acted and worked by Bible 'rules' and principles, as Jesus' words above, then this situation would not be here. 

The GB are the ones that bring shame on the Watchtower Soc' and on JW Org. So, unfortunately the whole W/t and CCJW will suffer because of the sins / dishonesty of the GB.   

Didn't the Nation of Israel suffer for the sins of King David ? 

It is quite obvious that if there is a Paedophile in a congregation, the whole congregation should be told who it is and should be on special alert. 

1 Timothy 5 v 20

Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest.

v 21 says " I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels to observe these instructions without any prejudice or partiality ".

Do you read this. Without any prejudice or partiality.

The GB and it's Elders use verse 19 as an excuse to disbelieve CSA accusations, but do not use verses 20 and 21. Hypocrites. 

In fact many of you have admitted that JW Org is not unique, by saying that all religions have problems such as Child Sexual Abuse and immorality etc. So most of you admit that JW Org is just like all other religions. 

JW Org also DOES have a clergy class, the Elders. Those Elders run the meetings, give Public talks and do the Watchtower study. They are the leaders in Field Service. They also act as policemen in the congregations. They listen to the confessions of the congregants.

Those Elders also claim Clergy Penitent Privilege. How could they do so if they were not clergy ?

There are collection boxes at every Kingdom Hall and they do ask for donations at assemblies. 

Not so united when it comes to CSA problems. Some countries hand over files, USA refuses to hand over files.

There seems to be plenty of politics mentioned on here . 

Fully integrated ?  Um, I suppose that means they will sit in the same KH or assembly together.

I suppose the question should be

What makes JWs think they are unique ?  

18 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I think this is a fine, noble and acceptable practice .....

ONLY if there is a full, detailed accounting to the rank-and-file Brothers and Sisters who are paying the bills.

I am talking something like a CPA audited EXCEL spreadsheet, certified by an independent auditing agency.

This is the only way we can be assured that monies are not just disappearing down some personal rat-hole.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. let's speak honestly here. Does anyone, 'boots on the ground' congregants, know any truth about what goes on in the upper regions of the Watchtower Soc' / JW Org / GB and their lawyers ?  Especially here in the UK being so far away from the main HQ. 

There are rumours about them being involved in all sorts of businesses. I was a little surprised to find the IBSA London Properties, and still do not know truth about the 'original IBSA verses the JW IBSA etc ???

I do realise that of late i have been looking for faults in JW Org. But in honesty it does not take much effort to find the faults because there are so many.. 

Quote : I for one, have cut my contributions back to about 1/3 of what I normally intend to contribute.

You must have your reasons for doing so. 

However, because elders would no longer serve as trustees, your local donations would be administered by KHT as part of its general funds. This could mean that the Trustees decide to use your donations to support the Kingdom work elsewhere in our branch territory and throughout the world to meet the needs of our brothers and sisters. 

Um, So if congregants here in the UK stop their contributions to the JW Org then the money taken will have to be returned. 

Quote : "This is in harmony with the equalizing explained at 2 Corinthians 8:14 “… that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing”.” "

Tom's view of James  " Much of your presence is clearly vindictive.

Much of your presence here is the plain wish to settle scores, the plain manifestation of the grudge to end all grudges. "

That elder Mr Harley sure does love to judge others.  

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Trees have that.

Yes, and trees do no harm. 

Quote @James Thomas Rook Jr. " I think your judgement is premature or possibly wrong for any number of legitimate reasons."

Well then I think it matches his judgement of me  But I can also understand you defending a brother, even if he is wrong . And elders have been told they can tell lies as it's spiritual warfare

Yes 3 smiley faces as I do think it's all so funny.  

James, you seem to have shown proof by providing photos of the letter where it actually says it. Unless that letter is fake ? 

But being as JWs can tell lies and seem to have a clear conscience about it, then there is no level playing field and no knowing truth from lies on here or anywhere else that JWs tend to comment. 

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

So .... what do you actually do for excitement?

I've replaced excitement with peace, calmness and happiness . 

Dear Elder @TrueTomHarley it appears that  @James Thomas Rook Jr.  has just proven YOU to be LIAR.

So now YOU are showing YOURSELF to be the MORON. 

This quaint idea of 'memory loss of convenience' for you, does not convince anyone that you speak truth. 

What is obvious though Tom, is that my speaking truth upsets you greatly. The proof of that is your continuing insults of me. You call me a moron, you reply to Anna, that I know knowing at all. It is a continual bombardment of insults from you, an (ex) Elder. 

I think it was James that said 'De nial isn't just a river in Egypt' How right he was. 

Tom, you push this idea as a pretence, quote  " All as reported by those who would be happy if JWs were to vanish off the planet. " 

You try to use this idea as a way to discredit people and reports, that tell the truth about the GB and the JW Org.  In fact Tom, some of those you try to discredit are your Brothers. 

Elder Tom you are so funny.  But yes I know it is all just click bate. But I have nothing better to do right now, apart from the washing up from dinner, which can wait a bit longer. I'm bored tom and you are good for a laugh. 

An elder and a story teller. Everything a JW needs to be. You might say that you are an ex elder, but just like police officers, never off duty. 

‘Unity of belief means brainwashing?’ Well if the things believed are lies then yes.  

1975 definitely seemed like brainwashing and can be proven as such by the reports of those that were there in the JW Org at the time. People were convinced to do all manner of things because the 'end was nigh' 

And the blood issue. People were convinced to let loved ones die just because the GB / leaders said so. 

" How bad can the ‘manipulation’ be, someone else observed, if it results it results in people unselfish, with good family values, respectful of laws, honest, peaceable, and so forth? "

Tom you are joking of course. There is just as much child abuse, adultery, fornication, lies, deceit and dishonesty in JW Org, as there is in any other religion. And as in all religions, it stars at the top and works it's way downward.  GB say 'Lies = spiritual warfare'.

Wouldn't it be nice if this were true. " simply translate it as “Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the Bible” " 

Congregants do not even understand the Bible. What congregants understand is the GB's view of the Bible. 

What congregants are told to believe is the GB's interpretation of the Bible, which of course is so often wrong.

Examples : Superior Authorities,  This Generation, 

Jesus prayed to his Father. His prayer was something like this 

'I thank you heavenly Father for giving understanding to these ordinary men and for keeping things hidden from intellectual ones'. But in those times those people were inspired of holy spirit. 

The boots on the ground congregants now are mainly 'uneducated people'. Hence the greater increases in such lands of lower intelligence or least knowledge.. Such people do not understand the deeper things of God's word, so they can be easily manipulated / brainwashed / convinced, to believe things that sound nice at the time. The tickling of people's ears Tom.  You would say it happens in other religions. 

I'll finish on one point.

It is obvious that you have been convinced / manipulated / brainwashed, into believing your GB's viewpoint about loving and serving God. You always write as if God belongs to JW Org. 

Quote :  Witnesses are no more than the modern counterpart of Joshua, famous for his Declaration of Dependence: “Now if it seems bad to you to serve Jehovah, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve...but as for me and my household, we will serve Jehovah.”

You cannot get it into your head that JW Org DOES NOT SERVE GOD PROPERLY. 

That proves manipulation / brainwashing because you are blind to truth. 

Do you have an underground shelter with a lock down lid ? Full of food and a radio and cell phone and wiring from a generater located in a strong metal shed and radio controlled starter.  And somewhere safe for the chickens ? 

Um, just one more reason for loving living here in the UK  No guns no tornadoes, no GB, no Warwick HQ. 

@Isabella Thank you for this information which has been discussed on this forum previously but it's nice to have a refresh. 

There are many things that I don't quite understand about the GB / their lawyers and JW ORG. 

(An interesting side note here is this :- Mr Tom Harley, the very sarcastic story teller, tells me that I know nothing. However I do wonder if his attitude was the same toward people when he was an Elder. )

To continue :

This American GB / JW Org Database was, so we believe, started in 1997. = 23 years ago.

However the Australian Royal Commission, that found 1006 CSA accusations in JW Org Australia, went back 50 years. 

Now JW Org is an American based religion. It started in the USA. So, if Australia Bethel has Paedophilia reports going back over 50 years. WHY does American Bethel only have a database going back just 23 years ?

Next point : I do not have knowledge of how the ARC obtained the 50 plus years of information. Did the Aus Bethel offer the information or did the ARC demand the information ? Either way and even if, court proceeding occurred, the information was obtained by the ARC and was used to make a full investigation.

Now here in the UK, I understand that when the Charity Commission asked for similar information from the UK Bethel, that the UK HQ refused to hand it over. I understand that a court case occurred and that the UK Bethel lost the case and had to hand over the information. That is how I understand it, and I've never dug deep into it. 

But in both case, Australia and UK , the records of Child Sexual Abuse were handed over to those people in authority that were investigating the JW Org. 

The scripture relating to being in submission to the Superior Authorities would fit well here.

It should also be noted, or so my information has it, that the Charity Commission has not closed it's investigation but it is ongoing. Add to this that the IICSA investigation is also in progress here in the UK.

So where does that leave the GB and it's Lawyers in America ?  

We could ask many questions about God's role in all this, and the role of Christ Jesus. 

In my opinion, God and Christ have washed their hands of it all. How can that which is Holy be involved with that which is not holy. We now know that the GB and their Lawyers are not inspired of God. We also know that the GB has given permission or instruction for the Elders to deliberately tell lies. They are calling it 'spiritual warfare'. Is that really God's viewpoint ? 

It seems though that there is now a big divide in the different Bethels / JW HQs around the earth. Each country is no longer living 'as one organisation earthwide' all serving God. But each Bethel is 'doing it's own thing' when it come protecting itself against the courts and media coverage concerning Child Sexual Abuse within the CCJW. It seems as if the GB are losing control. 

The news about the UK congregations money and their properties being taken over by an outside source seems to fit in well here.

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Well, in the face of such a confident challenge (given that you always speak that way).....I’m not iron-clad sure, big boy. But I think so. I was an elder for 20 years until about 2000. I served as secretary for most of those years. Blue envelopes were well-known to me and to the elder body. Yet I never sat in on or forwarded any judicial case involving CSA. So I start to revert back to what I said in the first place—for me to recall them so well, even submitting them I think, they would have had to have been for any form of wrongdoing. 

Furthermore, had there been a specific request, in 1997 or any other time, to write detailed reports of anyone in the congregation who had.ever been accused of CSA, I certainly would have remembered it, because I would have been the one charged to do it. I would not have been like Pilosi ripping up the letter. I took letter-writing seriously, something that should hardly be a surprise to anyone.

So that’s my evidence. I could be wrong—20 years time is enough to forget details—but I don’t think so. What is your evidence? Do you have any? Or are you just repeating what you have read on the internet?

Um, I remember saying that this forum was full of elders.

And now i also know why Mr Harley is so bitter toward the truth about JW Org. 

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There were blue envelopes but they were for relating the disfellowshipping of any person for any reason. The idea was that someone disciplined for any sort of wrongdoing could not just slip into a new congregation as though a rebuke had never happened. Presumably, the envelopes were blue for privacy’s sake, so they would be forwarded to the right persons.

Today, It is painted specifically as though it was for CSA. That was not the case. It was for any type of wrongdoing.

And do you have proof of that Tom ?  i doubt it very much.