Patiently waiting for Truth

11 hours ago, Isabella said:

Bonus Point: Some pearls form naturally in clams and oysters. However, cultured pearls are different. They are formed when someone intentionally puts an irritant into an oyster triggering the defense mechanism. Similarly, some of our brothers and sisters may have suffered physical, verbal or sexual abuse. They did nothing wrong, something wrong was done to them. In these instances it can take years for them to learn to cope with the pain. Still, with God’s love and spirit, even such deep scars from the actions of others can create pearls. If this has happened to you, others who have suffered may see your pearl of strength and be encouraged to keep pressing on as well. Most importantly, Jehovah sees your pain and all you have done to keep moving forward despite it. In his eyes, that has more value than any pearl that has ever been found.

And meanwhile the Child Sexual Abuse continues in the JW Org, and the court cases continue around the Earth. And God's name is insulted continuously. And you tell people to put up with it and nurture it. 

You know how to create a pearl from being sexually abused as a child do you ? 

8 hours ago, Anna said:

I've read the whole thing too, and put the date 16th March on my calendar. I will try to listen to it like I did with the ARC. 

What's been whitewashed? Can you be more specific?

@Anna  I was hoping the investigation was going to look at each 'religion' separately, but by my understanding it looks as if it is just a blanket / overview of all those 'religions' pushed in together. 

It mentions having more than one person in the witness box at a time and looks like it will just gloss over things. 

For instance it is about Jews, Islam / Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses and many more....   How is it possible to mix all those people into one investigation ?  

Some of those 'religions' mutilate (FGM) girls private parts, some marry off very young girls to very old men, but they say it IS part of their 'religion' or 'custom'.  They are not denying it. 

Whereas, Jehovah's Witnesses say “Jehovah's Witnesses abhor child abuse in all its forms and do not shield wrongdoers from the ... "

So here we see a totally opposite attitude. A denial rather than admittance........ It is known, whether you wish to believe it or not, that the JW Org hide paedophiles and have hidden CSA in it. (Otherwise there would not be court cases and investigations Earthwide ).  It is known that the JW HQ here in UK did not want to hand over information to the Charity Commission. So it seems to make it obvious that the JW Org does not want to cooperate with any investigation... (Hence their choice in whose statement they are using, see lower down)

As I read it also, the investigation WILL NOT look at past 'happenings and actions'. They only want to know what is  happening now. So how will the investigation have any information on the procedures that have been used in the past ?  I think it is always good to have a bit of the history to examine whether an organisation / religion has a past record of 'doing things properly'. It might help to establish whether that org / religion can be relied upon to 'get it right' in the future. 

Whose statement they are using. The CCJW (JW Org) are using a statement by Mr Paul Gillies who WAS (past tense) a member of the Britain Branch Committee. That man is now safely tucked away in American HQ it seems, as Director of Public Information at 'World HQ'. So, he will not be available for personal face to face questioning. How convenient.  We know that the GB have given permission to people in 'authority within the Org' (including Elders) to TELL LIES.  We know the GB call it Spiritual Warfare.  So, I am quite sure in my own mind that Mr Paul Gillies' statement could easily be full of lies and have GB approval. And as I say he cannot be cross examined / questioned. 

( Please note at this point : I am NOT a fan of Lloyd Evans, and I don't think he will be helpful to the investigation at all. )

All in all it looks to me like a very weak pretence of 'investigating' Child Sexual Abuse.  It looks too frightened to 'ruffle feathers' in NON White / NON British religions such as Jews and Muslims. It is obvious that those Non White / Non British religions / organisations would scream racism or some such excuses, or use the idea of ' freedom of religion' to continue doing harm to children. 

BUT Jehovah's Witnesses are, whether one likes it or not, basically a White Mans religion. ( We needn't go into the past about depicting Jesus as white etc, but point proven. )  By that I mean that JW Org, can't or won't scream racism as an excuse for anything.  I also doubt that here in the UK JWs would cry 'religious discrimination' either. And the way this investigation is being carried out they could not I suppose, because they are just being lumped in the pot with all the rest. 

So what do we have ? We have JW Org lumped in with all the rest, which impairs an investigation into CSA in the JW Org itself. We have, not being able to discuss / show previous processes / procedures of particular cases from the past, which would have been good evidence of wrongful use of scripture and wrongful action by men. We have a statement from a man who no longer resides in the UK (and hasn't done for 18 months at least ) and cannot be cross examined on his statement. We have a GB that gives their permission to tell lies to protect JW Org. 

So a 'false' investigation, a 'fake', a pretence. It will cost a fortune, it will probably upset many in 'those other' 'religions', it will not serve a good purpose to clean up the Org, it will not bring any justice to Victims of CSA, AND, most importantly, it will not bring any praise to Almighty God. 

It would be wonderful if I am wrong and I'd be happy to admit it if I am. And if it could bring praise to God in any way, that would be the best ever result.  Have a good day. 

Elders are supposed to be equal ?  And there is no hierarchy  ?   

Um some man on here 'sower of the seed ' or something,  seems to think different. When he talks about the GB working their way up 'through the ranks'. 

Of course there are ranks and hierarchy. Ministerial Servant, Elder, Circuit Overseer, et al. Right up to the GB and their lawyers. 

And who is it does the judging in the congregations ?  The Elders judge, mark, report on people. If a member of the congregation did that it would be seen as 'causing a division in the congregation' or trouble making, or gossip. But the Elders are given that authority to judge, mark, report, and be involved in disfellowshipping people by giving evidence to the C.O. I think that shows that Elders have rank / position. 

If all were equal they would not use the term 'brother / sister', because they would be on first name terms within the congregation. I have a brother and a sister by blood relation, and i use their first names. Why not in a congregation. I really can't imagine the Apostles using last names. We have, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, ............. No last names there. 

Also, Elders write their own talks to give from the platform. True they may have a basic outline from the GB but the Elder has quite a free reign to write his talk. Now that Public Talk is given as said to the Public, so that Elder has a responsibility to give correct information in such a talk. So is that not very similar to church clergy ? 

@Anna, i think, mentioned the word church. The church is NOT the building, it is the congregation, specifically the Anointed, as it would have been in the Greek Scriptures. 

@Srecko Sostar mentioned Inside JW circle word "clergy" has bad connotation. Because, as word "Christendom" too, it is always about, those other people, those other churches, those other religions.

The GB down to the Elders have always tried to frighten congregants with some false idea  about everyone 'outside' the JW Org being wicked. As Srecko mentions 'clergy' 'Christendom' and others have been 'torn apart' 'dissected' and given bad reports on. 

So now the table has turned and it is the GB and the JW Org that are being dissected and inspected, and investigated, and given bad reports on. It would seem they are receiving back what they threw at others. 

I still repeat that JWs break the law of the land when it suits them, but obey the law of the land when its convenient to them. 

Suit yourselves though. It's so clear to see that the GB, their lawyers, and most JWs have no love, nor even any feelings for Victims of Child Sexual Abuse within JW Org. The Victims are just Collateral Damage, pushed aside as being inconvenient....  

So your GB and it's Org saved themselves some money. Wow. But what is much more important is, the feelings of God and Christ on these matters.  I'm sure that God, Christ and the scriptures would be on the side of the Victims here. But that of course does not matter to your GB, sitting high in their new home. 

Update from IICSA today 14th January 2020 

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/17283/view/preliminary-hearing-transcript-14-jan-2020.pdf

It's UK of course so may not be of interest to most of you. 

I've just read the full 70 pages and it looks like a whitewash.

12 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nah.....that’s just the taunt of those who hate to read

You have the right to disagree with scripture of course, but then it seems insulting to the one whom inspired its writing. 

The Elders are clergy and Policemen, and judges and decision makers, and dictators et al. 

@TrueTomHarley  " It’s called updating. People have done this since the beginning of time. The printing presses they use didn’t even fit in the NYC buildings, they became so large. "

Septuagint bible w/ Apocrypha     Ecclesiastes 12:12 (LXX) And moreover, my son, guard thyself by means of them: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

The Message Bible  Ecclesiastes 12:12 (MSG) But regarding anything beyond this, dear friend, go easy. There's no end to the publishing of books, and constant study wears you out so you're no good for anything else.

So why would your GB want to be spending so much money on new buildings and new equipment, if 'THE END' IS SO CLOSE NOW ?

Surely all that money could have been put into preaching the Good News Earthwide. After all, surely bringing in more people and getting them baptised is the priority ?  Your GB is telling the world that no one will be saved unless they are a baptised JW. But they used the brothers and sisters to do the building, when they could have been preaching, and they used the money for the buildings when it could have been used better in the earthwide preaching work, and possibly to help those bros & sis that need extra support financially to survive. But no, your GB chose to build it's 'Tower to the sky', just to show off its wealth. 

53 minutes ago, Anna said:

If anyone is interested in reading the actual transcript of the Supreme Court's decision, here is the link:

https://law.justia.com/cases/montana/supreme-court/2020/da-19-0077-0.html

So you can decide whether Jehovah's Witnesses lied to the Montana court about confidentiality. Remarks and comments are welcome (at least welcomed by me 😀)

I don't have the concentration span for it thank you. 

But isn't the jist of it, that the GB / JW Org use of 'confidentiality' is totally different to what normal people would think of confidentiality ?  Isn't it that JWs can tell Elders, Circuit Overseers, HQ, et al, but still say that is is confidential. Whereas, Catholics use confidential to mean between one person and one priest. And Doctors use it to mean between one patient and one doctor.  I would certainly use it to mean only two people, the one offering the information and the one hearing that information.  But if your GB and in fact you JWs are happy to accept the 'spiritual warfare' used by GB lawyers then so be it. I'm sure God or Christ will judge you all in time. Especially the GB, that pretend they are Anointed, but, 'by their works' we know are not. 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You miss the entire point. They are setting the example for everyone else to follow. Nobody is. There is no reason they cannot. They choose to put their trust in other models—models that don’t work.

How you try to deceive.  You know why people don't help each other. You know why the world is as it is. You know who the governments belong to, (and even the 'charities' belong to)... Satan offered them to Jesus and Jesus did not say that they didn't belong to Satan. 

Once again you are comparing the GB and JWs to 'the world', that 'wicked world of mankind'. Because you dare not compare the GB and JWs to God's standards, as your GB and most JWs fall far short. 

You really must lack faith if you need to compare your GB and the Org to the devil's wicked world. 

Quote @Anna  unless one was physically removed from society all together, 

Then so it should be.... JW or otherwise.... But as i tried to say to Tom, its the devil's world so they will be allowed to carry on with their disgusting ways. 

Quote "In most cases, children won’t be removed from a home without clear indications the child is in danger. '     

Child welfare services have hard decisions both ways, but cost would be a big problem and places to re-home children. And those working in 'Child welfare' are still part of that 'wicked world' that JWs warn everyone about. So who can be trusted ? The whole world is in such a mess.

JWs say that anything outside of JW Org, is part of the 'wicked world'. But then we can see that a lot of things 'inside JW Org' are wicked things too.  Not one human can be trusted. Its obvious why the scripture says 'Put not your trust in earthling man'. 

King James Bible Psalm 146 v 3 
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
 

8 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I see your point. What those brothers in Haiti really needed was to hear you and Witness telling them that the people who rebuilt their homes and restored their lives were no good.

My gracious, you are stupid!

Twisting words again Mr story teller.  You will only impress the naive ones. Sensible people laugh at you.  The GB and it's org probably has enough money to feed physical food to the population of the whole world, but do they do it ?  The Org may 'look after their own' which is good of course, but they could do much more if they wanted to. It seems that Jesus fed physically as well as spiritually. 

But your original point previously was for me to take action against the devil's world, to 'fix the world', thereby becoming part of that world. But now you twist it to be something different. How sad you really are Tom. 

Quote @TrueTomHarley  " But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea.” Matthew 18:6 "

Quote @Anna " But if one doesn't have that kind of faith, then money is the next best thing. "

There you are Anna, the answer to why those ones lost their faith. They were stumbled by Paedophiles, then stumbled by their Elders not acting properly to sort it out.  AND WHAT FOLLOWED  WAS  :-

Quote @Anna

18 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Ten years to the day after Haiti suffered a magnitude 7 earthquake that killed 250,000, CBS News sent Jeff Glor to Port au Prince to report on progress. There wasn’t any—or at least, it didn’t seem that way.

“Mass protests, gang violence, rampant political corruption...jobs are scarce,” was his glum assessment. 80 million dollars had immediately after the quake been allocated to rebuild the hospital, and CBS showed the unfinished building standing empty. As to the devastation of the old hospital—the only hospital in town? It “reeks of raw sewage, piles of trash are everywhere.” 

“Sorry, Buddy, I’m sorry,” a shaken Jeff Glor murmurs, stroking the head of a writhing infant unable to relieve himself. “I can’t imagine the pain he’s in right now,” he says to his parent.

Read the report of how the beacon of relief looked to by humanists ten years ago raised half a billion dollars in the wake of the earthquake—and squandered almost all of it: here

Yes, but surely ten years later, mighty progress has been made. Nope. Doesn’t seem so. In contrast, disaster relief teams organized by the Coordinator’s Committee of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’s Governing Body, quickly attended to physical needs of members back then. Not only physical needs, but the more important spiritual needs, for it is widely recognized that hope is what people need at such time at least as much as physical relief. 

An excerpt from Tom Irregardless and Me: 

In contrast, the Red Cross, America’s ‘charity of choice,’ succeeded in raising half a billion dollars after a 7.0 magnitude earthquake struck Haiti in January 2010. Five years later, ProPublica and NPR jointly reported that they had astonishingly little to show for it; “It’s difficult to know where it all went,” they wrote. Search through their June 3, 2015 report and read the devastating consequences of not having Bible education.

Read how the ones in charge couldn’t speak the native languages and often skipped community meetings on that account. Read how some disrespected the local workers. Read how Washington headquarters micromanaged everything, how shifting senior management slowed progress to a crawl, how leaders with “absolutely no expertise” wielded authority. Read about hand-washing campaigns launched with huge fanfare to people who had no access to soap or water. Read about the 130,000 claimed to have been housed, but who actually just attended a seminar on how to fix their own homes, received temporary rental assistance or provisional shelters that started to disintegrate after three to five years. And be fair to the Red Cross: Read their response. Read it all. Were it not so tragic, it would be laughable. It was all so preventable. All that was needed was Bible education. Jehovah’s Witnesses have it. They value it. They didn’t suffer from the Red Cross’s problems.

You should be fair to the Red Cross - don’t pile on just because the herd does. Haiti is a spectacular train wreck for them, but probably they do better elsewhere. Doubtless they have fine people doing their best. No one alleges theft. They offer an explanation for their performance. Read it. Essentially, they had problems because they didn’t know what they were doing: they didn’t mesh with the locals, they didn’t understand the local laws. Cut them slack on these things, if you like, but also note that such problems would never occur in Jehovah’s organization, where local people are highly valued, if not placed in charge.

Author Bill Underwood in the now defunct examinier.com compared the disaster relief efforts of several religious organizations. Most issued urgent appeals for money. Most provided only sketchy details as to what they would do with those monies. But when it came to the Watchtower:

Well, that was refreshing. I went to watchtower.org and searched it for references to money, donations, charity. All I found were Watchtower articles such as ‘Is money you master or your servant?’ Try as I might, there was no way to donate any money to the organization, nor any request for donations. The only mention of money I found, in connection with Haiti, was in a public news release at jw-media.org entitled “Witnesses’ relief efforts well under way for victims of earthquake in Haiti.” A single line at the bottom read, ‘The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is caring for these expenses by utilizing funds donated to the Witnesses’ worldwide work.’

....At the home of Victor Vomidog, an alarm panel light pulsed red. Victor read the incoming feed. It was serious. Someone was saying nice things about Jehovah’s Witnesses. Instantly, he swung into action. There was not a moment to lose. He opened his door and whistled. The media came running. “Witnesses are selfish!” he cried. “They only think of themselves! Why don’t they help everyone? Why do they just do their own people?” That evening, media ran the headline: “WHY DON’T THEY HELP EVERYONE?”

But they had asked the wrong question. The headline they should have run, but didn’t, because they didn’t want to deal with the answer, was: “WHY AREN’T OTHERS DOING THE SAME?” The answer to the first question is obvious: Witness efforts consist of volunteers using their vacation time. Just how much time is the boss going to grant?

So do it yourself, Victor! Organize your own new chums! Or send your money to some mega-agency where they think Bible education is for fools. Be content to see monies frittered away on salaries, hotels, travel, retirement, health care benefits, and God knows what else! Be content to see much of what remains squandered! It’s the best you can do - embrace it! Or at least shut up about the one organization that has its act together.

The obvious solution, when it comes to disaster relief, is for others to do as we do. Why have they not? There are hundreds of religions. There are atheists…aren’t you tight with Sam now, Victor? Organize them, why don’t you? They all claim to be unGod’s gift to humankind. Surely they can see human suffering. Why don’t they step up to the plate themselves?

They can’t. They are vested in a selfish model that runs a selfish world. Let them become Jehovah’s Witnesses and benefit from the Bible education overseen by the Governing Body, Plato’s and Sider’s dream brought to life. But if they stay where they are, they must look to their own organization or lack thereof. There’s no excuse that they should not be able to copy us. They have far more resources to draw upon. We’re not big enough to do everyone for free, and we don’t know how to run a for-pay model; we’ve no experience in that. Instead, other groups must learn how to put love into action, as we did long ago.

C’mon, Victor! If all the world needs is to ‘come together,’ then see to it! We don’t know how to do that. People without Bible education tend not to get along. You make them do it! You don’t want to, or can’t, do large-scale relief, yet you want to shoot down those who do! What a liar!

...

CBS News and Jeff Glor is determined to find a silver lining in this total failure uncovered during his 2020 visit. He does find one—but it is not in Port au Prince, which is still apparently a lost cause, despite humanists throwing everything they have at it.

“But take  a trip outside the capitol and you find a remarkable place that many people doubted could ever exist in this country.” Jeff reports of St Boniface hospital, a remarkable (for Haiti) institution run by Health Equity International, caring for needs that cannot be cared for anywhere else in the country, it’s director says. People travel hundreds of miles to get there. It was started in 1983, and thus has nothing to do with human efforts in response to the 2010 devastation, but it clearing has found a place since then.

No bad things will be said about Health Equity International. Only good things. It represents dedication at its best. Still, in the context of the greater picture....well—you must “take a trip outside the capitol” to find it—something, unless I am very wrong, that the majority of residents will not be able to do. Inside the capitol—where everyone is—there appears scant improvement in 2010, in fact, worse than scant improvement, for there were not “mass protests,” prior to the quake, and probably “gang violence” was not as bad. “Rampant political corruption” probably was, but that is business as usual in large portions of the world. 

Fix it, you humanists. Fix it, you anti-cultists. Fix it, you “evidence-based” atheists. Fix it, @Srecko Sostar. Fix it, @Witness. Fix it, @4Jah2me—your solution is at least ten years away and people need relief now! Fix it—all or any of you. Or at least lay off on deriding JWs, since your people certainly aren’t rising to the occasion.

How funny your story telling is Tom. It's really good for a laugh. BUT you miss the true point as usual. 

IT ISN'T MEANT TO BE FIXED BY HUMANS, IT IS THE DEVIL'S WORLD. ONLY GOD THROUGH CHRIST CAN AND WILL FIX IT.

BUT THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO INVOLVE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.  At least not in the state of the Org right now. 

One point of there being NO RELIEF NOW is that people should be looking for God to 'fix it' in the future. Unfortunately many have died and many more will die, but we have the faith of the resurrection in God's New world, here on Earth.. 

"And people need relief right now ". If God or Christ thought it was SOOOOOO important right now, then THEY would fix it now.  

Are you blaming God for not fixing it right now ?  It seems so as you demand 'people need relief now', and you know that humans cannot fix it. 

Think on things this way Tom. IF, JW Org is God's 'tool' for bringing together all those worthy of surviving Armageddon, and IF Armageddon is 'so close now' as you people say, then JW Org will be 'made clean' very soon, by a miracle from God through Christ. Why ? Because God and Christ CANNOT work through an unclean Organisation. 

Be 'no part of the world'. Be 'without spot from the world'. 'Have love amongst yourselves'.  'Remove the wicked ones from amongst you'.  

So there is room for action from you Tom. Will you 'rise to the occasion' ? Will you help God and Christ clean up your JW Org ? Or are you too busy writing books ? 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How, exactly, does $20 million for the plaintiff repair her trauma?

How, exactly, does $10 million for the lawyer repair that victim’s trauma?

The world is very eager to punish with regard to child sexual abuse, but does it actually do anything to prevent it? 

Well at least the plaintiff could be miserable in luxury  ..  But I agree with you that millions of $$$ in payouts are too high. So who is it that decides on the amount ? Because as you seem to be saying, it disputes the genuineness of the claim.  But is there ever an apology on behalf of the Watchtower / JW Org ? 

One other point of course is, would a qualified lawyer be prepared to fight a case for a Victim if there was no financial reward for the lawyer. Lawyers are part of the devil's world, and money seems to be what drives them. You cannot expect an experienced lawyer to work for no pay. And it needs very experienced lawyers to fight the GB and their lawyers, because the GB's lawyers play dirty.  

Also, you cannot expect the devil's world to work toward preventing child sexual abuse can you ?  Its kinda funny how @Arauna follows 'world conditions' and uses them as signs of the times, whereas you seem to be expecting signs of improvement to worldly moral standards. But you know things will get worse not better. This is why JW Org should be compared to God's high standards, not compared to the devil's world. It would be too easy to say JW Org is better than the devil's world, but it would prove nothing. 

========================================================

New comment. 

@the Sower of Seed  Said :  A person may imagine sexual scenarios, is this the Christian thing to do?

  4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

person may imagine sexual scenarios, is this the Christian thing to do?

@Arauna   said : He was giving an example.... so what are u getting åt? 

Members of the Governing Body, it seems, were Homosexual.  It also seems, if information is correct, that a member of Bethel was sexually assaulted by such a one.  There have been other reports on here, of immoral behavior at Bethel.

Those GB members would have contributed to Watchtower articles. Also it gives reason to believe that the Writing department personnel might not be exactly worthy of producing information on God;s behalf.  With 'pillowgate' and other examples it does not look good for the GB / Org / Bethel in USA. 

Unfortunately i don't keep all the info i read on this forum, and those that have given info' might not wish to confirm the info they originally gave, so I only have the remnants of the knowledge in my head.  But the information I have read on here was obviously given voluntarily by those that had worked / possibly do work at Bethel, so there is no reason for me to disbelieve it.  

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Sorry to bring up an old topic but court case is now being fought because mormon church broke confidentiality. ....... it is a ' legal issue' to release confidential info.

Ask Congress to change this law or become an activist against this law.

I'm English not American and I try to be no part of that world. Congress means nothing to me.... The Charity Commission did an investigation here in UK and the IICSA will be doing a deeper investigation as well.

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/investigation/child-protection-religious-organisations-and-settings

Next Steps:

A preliminary hearing took place at 2pm on 23 July 2019 and a further preliminary hearing will be held at 10:30am on 14 January 2020. Two weeks of public hearings will begin on 16 March 2020.

The Inquiry is encouraging all victims and survivors of child sexual abuse to share their experience via our Truth Project.

On 1/12/2020 at 7:02 AM, Arauna said:

These cases have not been proven. Some of them are only allegations.... this would be unfair to those people on the list.  They could also become victims - of persecution.  There is always two sides to any story.

If jehovah does not allow slander of another person, why would he allow people who are suspected of something bad -  without proof - to be publicly slandered.

Here the law of confidentiality applies ...... and by the look of things this has to be fought out in court. The reason being the congress (or regress)  is too busy with theatre while enriching themselves than to do a good days work - to look after seeing to the task of the people.... to change laws to bring true justice.

 

 

What are you trying to prove by dragging up old topics ?

Cases cannot be proven unless names are given for police or others to investigate, that is obvious.

By hiding over 20 years of information it shows fear in the GB and it's lawyers. If your GB had any faith at all in God or Christ, it would 'go the extra mile', and try its best to clean up the JW Org. But no, they continue to hide the information. 

@the Sower of Seed  A person may imagine sexual scenarios, is this the Christian thing to do?

What is sexual sin in God's eyes. To arouse sexual desire in someone who is not your wife or husband.

@Arauna the issues involved which originate inside the person - the desires

Well then maybe you can both explain how two past members of the Governing Body were Homosexuals. 

Jesus words at Matthew 5 v 28 Berean Study Bible
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So how did brothers in Bethel know that GB members were homosexual. After all if that GB member even had thoughts of homosexuality then they were committing homosexuality in their hearts. Now surely as Anointed ones that would be sinning against the spirit. 

Some of you joke about 'tight pants Tony' of the GB, but is any of that really funny concerning the supposedly Anointed of God.

Not one of you JWs seem to realise any seriousness in any thing I write. I do think it is because many of you are American and as such you have become hardened of heart.  (I would think it is harder emotionally to live in USA) And @Arauna can easily be seen as hard hearted, also Mr Harley.  Yes the world is horrid and we do need to toughen up of course, otherwise we will 'sink', but I do definitely see a lack of love and  fellow feeling on this forum. 

To think that your 'guidance' comes via the Watchtower which is not inspired of God and which is written by ordinary men who also have wrong desires it seems, having read lots of things on here which seem to go on at Bethel. And that your GB are more interested in their own position and the 'money in their bank accounts', than they are in people who have been wronged by your Org. But JWs still serve the Org blindly. Still putting their money in, and still trying to encourage others to be part of it. 

But, if you put all your effort into walking 100 miles to a destination, you will not reach that destination if you are walking in the wrong direction because you have been misguided.  So, is your GB and it's Org really guiding you in the right direction ? An important question is, 'Are your GB / Writing Department / management / elders, really qualified to guide you?'  Well the scriptures say 'By their works you will know them'.  And it's a poor show right now. 

Oh American Jehovah's Witnesses how wonderful you are. 

I thank you for making it known to the world that God's laws and Jesus Christ's instruction are different in each and every state of America. That God's standards are different in every state of America. 

I do hope you are so pleased with your GB and their lawyers. I'm sure that you are all glad that your GB have saved themselves some money.  

I'm sure you have not one shred of feeling for any Victim of Child Sexual Abuse in the JW Org. 

It is the teachings in the JW Org to lose all 'emotion', to rid ones self of fellow feelings and to give praise to the Org and it's GB. So be it. Your GB tell you that you MUST be a Baptised JW to gain salvation, and you believe them. Your GB said that those Victims of CSA were actually apostates telling lies, and you believed your GB. Your GB tells you that Armageddon is 'so close' 'its just around that corner', and you believe the GB. Your GB tells the Elders that it is right to tell lies as it is part of spiritual warfare, and you continue to believe it all. But you then pretend that you don't serve your GB. 

John Butler had a favourite phrase 'Collateral Damage'. Well some of you think (and say) that I am John Butler.. You are truly welcome to have your own thought as to who I am....  However maybe it is a British way of thinking, to have thoughts and feelings for others. I'm afraid I do not think it is an American way of thinking at all.  So America is probably not the best place to have the HQ of what you think is God's Organisation.  Having an all American GB or American influenced GB, is proving to be not good. They seem more worried about the money and their OWN positions, than they are about serving God properly. And the GB certainly have no love for CSA Victims in the Org. 

But if the GB / Bethel / Circuit Overseers / Elders et al, are allowed to tell half the Org and still pretend it is confidential then that is the biggest immoral / dishonest / unloving / merciless thing ever.  It is a loophole of the worst kind.  

The case may be ten years old, but that does not make it any less important in God's / Christ's opinion surely. Surely THEY would want justice and mercy done ? 

As JTR (I think it was ) said, the W/t / JW Org is run by the accountants and lawyers .

It is not God's Organisation because it proves to be man's. 

@Srecko Sostar  The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of  organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation. 

Sadly there is much persecution in Russia. There may be persecution elsewhere but I'm not aware of it. In Russia though it has been financial as well as physical. 

But it annoys me when JWs pretend that the CSA problems are part of persecution, because in truth they are caused by the dishonesty in the Org itself. 

In my opinion, whatever is printed in the W/t or in the Shepherding the Flock book, nothing has changed. It will still be hidden, and victims will still be shunned and called liars. JWs will still believe the Elders above the victims. Contacting Bethel / Head Office etc, where those brothers do not really know the people involved / the Elders involved / or the true situation, but can only go by their book of rules, will not bring about justice and mercy that God and Christ require.

Quote @TrueTomHarley "..  because the pattern elsewhere is that the leaders of organizations, religious or otherwise, are the abusers themselves, something rarely true with the Witness organization, .. "

Tom you would not know. Because the GB and their lawyers are withholding over 20 years worth of Child Sexual Abuse details in America. How can you possibly know who names are in there ? 

For you to state that it is rare amongst the JW Org for its 'leaders' to be involved, you would need to have access to those files. 

Some on here have even said that GB members were homosexuals. And it was also said that a GB member had been accused of sexually abusing someone in Bethel.  I think this information came from JWI. My apologies to JWI if I'm wrong.

Oh and I read the rest of your comment which I knew would be a total waste of my time, and it was. You go of on a tangent talking about world affairs and then you go 'gay-bashing' but pretend not to be. Then you do your normal JW thing by blaming those that tell the truth about your GB and JW Org.  You try to turn the tables on those people that have found true faults in your Org. You use that stupid old pretence that all people that find fault must be d/fed JWs. Sorry Tom that idea died long ago. Although you don't admit it, there are REAL VICTIMS of CSA  that have PROVEN that Elders and others have misused their 'authority' in the Org and hidden the truth and/or lied about CSA in the JW Org. 

But keep up your story telling Tom, some naive ones might believe you. 

1 minute ago, Tom Henry said:

I understand those opposed want to make an argument on anything they can cling onto, but who were the last people to see Jesus in spirit form? If anyone here wants to make an intelligent proposition without outright speculation than even seasoned witnesses here have a problem with, then by all means, lets distinguish those biblical understandings.

I think there is a scripture that says Jesus was seen by up to 500 people. 

1 Corinthians 15 v 6. 

New International Version
After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

New King James Version
After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.

We know that Jesus 'took on human form' when he was resurrected, so as to 'prove' his resurrection. We have the account of Thomas too. But we know that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit and merely 'used' human form to show himself to humans. 

 @"a holy place"  Oh dear, and do you believe all that you've written or copied ?

Quote "The problem isn't trying to figure out ‘the times and seasons’, it’s contending with the disappointment of not getting it right at “the proper time” and moving past that."

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This is something that I quoted from '@a holy place', as you can see.

However @Arauna does this :-

21 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

it’s contending with the disappointment of not getting it right

You will be so busy fighting and contending that Armageddon will be here and you still would not recognize it......

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I do hope others don't suffer in this way. That poor woman seems to need to misquote me every time. 

She is pretending that they are my words she is answering when in fact they are from a quote of someone elses. Why does this woman need to do this to me every time ? 

@TrueTomHarley  I read half of it Tom, but you do tend to go over the top. 

One thing i find quite funny is the FACT that the GB / JW Org change the use of their conscience when it affects their bank account.

In many countries JW Preaching is AGAINST THE LAW.  But as the apostles said 'We must obey God as ruler rather than men'. So in many countries Witnesses deliberately break the law to preach. 

BUT, the GB / JW Org won't 'break the law' to protect young children from being Sexually Abused. 

Even if it it not a legal requirement' to report, SURELY it IS a requirement from GOD through CHRIST to report all forms of Abuse, Child or Adult, to those authorities which GOD HAD PUT IN PLACE.  

Berean Study Bible  James 1 v 27 
Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

New International Version Romans 13 v 1
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Christian Standard Bible
Let everyone submit to the governing authorities, since there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are instituted by God.

Your GB and its Org have no excuse. 

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Confidentiality by lawyers and clergy is guaranteed by law.  Please read CNN news! 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/10/us/oregon-woman-sues-mormon-church/index.html