Patiently waiting for Truth

https://www.internationalbiblestudents.com/

https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2013/04/10/the-original-international-bible-students-association-still-alive-and-well/

https://ibsaproperty.com/

After the death of Brother Russell in 1916, J.F. Rutherford took control of the WBTS, contrary to the instructions in Brother Russell’s Will and the Watchtower Bylaws.  By 1931 J.F. Rutherford had fundamentally transformed the WBTS into an authoritative theocratic organization.  J.F. Rutherford renamed the group from Bible Students to “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” in order to distinguish itself from the various groups formed by the 75% of original Bible Students no longer associated with the WBTS.  Hundreds of these Bible Student congregations worldwide have continued to the present, thus constituting a continuation of the original IBSA.

The International Bible Students have always been actively engaged in witnessing the Truth to the world and our beliefs remain unchanged since the days of Brother Russell.  We continue to treasure the Studies in the Scriptures, early Watchtowers and other writings of Brother Russell.   We believe that the light continues to shine brighter (clearer), but that it never changes.  If we agree that the Truth has changed, then it never was the Truth in the first place.

George,

The last thing the Governing Body and JW Organization would want to do is bring Bible Students to court over publishing rights. This would draw attention to the existence of the original Bible Students (who supposedly died out according to JW Org). Also, an investigation of the history would reveal a hostile and illegal takeover of the Watchtower by Rutherford and his supporters, which would be a public relations nightmare. The original Watchtower Directors eventually decided not to take legal action as some brethren pointed them to these Bible verses.

So questions.

Who are the ( ORIGINAL ) INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION ?  Because they seem to be in opposition to JW Org. 

BUT, IBSA London Properties says this :-

@Witness  But what then do you see as the next move forward ? 

I can see some of what you are saying as sensible. 

NOTE to @TrueTomHarley If I see something as sensible it does not mean that i believe it all. It just means that I can see some common sense in it. 

I would have thought that any True Anointed person would have no part of JW Org as it is right now. Why would they stay in a false religion ? And some of them serving as Elders  ?  

Wouldn't true Anointed Earthwide have the spiritual strength to 'gather together' via internet or other means ? Wouldn't God through Christ, give them the spiritual upbuilding ?

You know that I do expect a true Anointed to 'come forward', to be made known, within a few years or even sooner. And I also think JWs fears of humans destroying the Earth if it goes on much longer,  shows a lack of faith. However I do not pretend to know God's or Christ's ways of moving forward.  

I'm always interested in other people's sensible viewpoints. Sorry Tom Harley i said sensible.. 

Quote @JW Insider  "Jesus meant for us to think about the more important things. A law should never get in the way of showing love or saving a life."

What Jesus did at Matthew 12 v 9 through 12, was breaking the God given Law to the Nation of Israel. But Jesus proved that things can be more important than just following 'law'. We no longer live under that Law of course, in fact 'we' never did.

At the time of Jesus and His followers in the first century, it seems to have been common practice for Romans to drink human and animal blood. So can you prove that the instruction to 'abstain from blood' was not referring to the drinking of blood ? 

However when you say "A law should never get in the way of showing love or saving a life." Do you mean a human law or God's law ? 

Quote "Therefore, if the Bible says "Abstain from blood" ("New Testament" not OT), then we need not dive too deeply into any science to understand the meaning. We merely abstain from blood." 

If Jesus had used that principle then as the scriptures said Not to do any work etc on the Sabbath, he wouldn't have cured that man. 

I'm sorry but you seem to be complicating the matter. 

@JW Insider  I am seriously concerned about your above comment. It all seems to be based around a few MEN making decisions for the lives of 8.5 million other people.  BUT those few MEN are NOT INSPIRED BY GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT.  It is only THEIR personal viewpoint. And it can take the lives of millions of people. 

What then did Jesus mean at Matthew 12 v 9 through 12. ? 

After departing from that place, he went into their synagogue, ¹⁰  and look! there was a man with a withered* hand!k So they asked him, “Is it lawful to cure on the Sabbath?” so that they might accuse him.l ¹¹  He said to them: “If you have one sheep and that sheep falls into a pit on the Sabbath, is there a man among you who will not grab hold of it and lift it out?m ¹²  How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.” 

Doing any work on that Sabbath could be punished by death. It was that serious in God's eyes. 

Yet here was Jesus telling them that it was 'lawful' to do a fine thing on the Sabbath. 

@Anna tells me that we should all read our Bible and have our own conscience. 

@Arauna tells me that all i do is misquote scripture.

BUT, I listen to neither men (GB / Elders) nor women. My conscience tells me that Jesus was saying that there is a time, when what appears to others to be God's way, is in fact not God's way at all. 

How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.” 

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nobody is. I need you to get the ball rolling. Have you gone back to celebrating Christmas yet? The books make great stocking stuffers.

Come now, don’t be mean to me. I am trying to help.

You have said that Armageddon might be 10 years or more in the future, and that the ‘true anointed’ (since the present one is no good) might manifest itself in 10 years or less. Thus it is conceivable that they might both happen at the ten year mark on the dot, and the situation of those saved will be like the baseball player sliding into home—the true anointed umpire waving him safe as the devil catcher misses with his tag.

So that this ridiculous situation does not happen, you must do all you can so that the ”true anointed,” when it appears, hits the ground running and doesn’t wait to the last moment to get moving. Some members of this “true anointed,” I gather, are still muzzled within JWorg—they can’t all be outside and have their own Facebook pages. If they were, they could start a Facebook group and go from there, lacking only the Great Eight, who they don’t like anyway.. So some must be current Witnesses who are treated terribly, held incommunicado, not allowed to communicate with one another. 

You can’t help them because the present arrangement is not pure enough for you and you cannot look upon what is bad. However, JTR is not so finicky and has no problem doing that. You can assign him to the role of “true helper” to those future members of the “true anointed.” He can thereby redeem himself in your eyes for seeing, as you do, how wicked everything is in the org but choosing to remain there still—give him the assignment. He can visit these mistreated anointed ones in their cells and even pass notes from one to another in case they want to communicate in strict violation of the rules. That way they will be in better shape when the true liberation comes.

Please, 4Jah, I am only trying to help. I think this suggestion might work.

 

 

I have pity for you @TrueTomHarley .  You find the need to misquote and mock but you have nothing better to offer. 

The True Anointed will be known long before the ten years. But it seems that JW Org won't be cleaned of the Child Sexual Abuse problem for at least another 2 or 3 years if ever. So one question must be would God / Christ use an immoral organisation ? 

I think you are mixing me up with @Witness when you mention the anointed 'being trapped within the JW Org'. I think Witness has that line of thinking. 

But your first line of comment shows your stupidity. Quote "Have you gone back to celebrating Christmas yet?  Did i ever celebrate Christmas, maybe not. No we did not celebrate your Christmas. Well it must be yours as you mentioned it. Christmas means nothing to me, neither does new year. 

Quote "You can’t help them because the present arrangement is not pure enough for you and you cannot look upon what is bad."

How pathetic you are Tom. I know you are a story teller and therefore have to exaggerate but you go beyond being funny. Tell my Tom, is the " present arrangement " pure enough for God and Christ ?  I think not Tom. Hence the Org seems to be being cleansed slightly by the 'superior authorities' of the world.. 

“Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.”—ROMANS 13:1. ( Watchtower online library ). 

Well it seems that God, through Christ, is using those 'superior authorities' to dig deep into your JW Org and maybe clean it up a bit. So maybe one day your JW Org might just turn around and recognise the True Anointed, and maybe your GB will be humble enough to step down, then let those True Anointed do their job. But all of that can only take place with the help and approval of God / Christ and through the use of Holy Spirit. By the way, that is Holy Spirit that your GB admit not having. 

But to you it seems, God and Christ can do nothing. Only your GB have power in your eyes. I'm sure it was you that once stated that no one can remove the GB. What a sad way of thinking. To give such praise to men instead of giving that praise to God through Christ. You choose whom you serve Tom, but do it carefully.  

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’m sure of that, too.

Proving my point about Mr Harley. He has nothing better to offer here, so he misquotes. Such a jealous man, because he gets no attention. Probably nobody is buying his books. 

37 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Be obedient to those taking the lead amongst you: what do YOU believe this scripture means.

"Obviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture "  - your quote.

This kind of philosophy/thinking I found prevalent in the west in first world countries...... at work.....everywhere .  Meaning that there can be no unity because all do and think as they please but only cooperate and keep quiet because they want their pay .  This way of  thinking has also infiltrated the Christian congregation...... each one wants their independent opinion - not realizing that this causes division. 

I prefer to try to understand why the GB opinion differs from mine.  

You think I am a GB puppet - I am not.  However, I have learnt to think about what the GB say and why they say it..... so I can cooperate to the best of my abilities.  The sin Adam did was egotistical - he wanted to be independent from jehovah.  This tendency is still the greatest deceiver of those who like to deceive themselves.   Their freedom is not true freedom because they are a slave to themselves. 

Anna will not listen to me - she knows better. She happens to agree with me because it is logical.  Something you do not see. You listen to Witness who will lead you down the garden path because you like your own opinion and independence more than the truth.  You are a slave to your own desires/ideas.

Not to the point where they all want special treatment. The special use is being a slave of God...... and the commission is to preach and teach.  I know another anointed lady who has been a pioneer most of her life,  she must now be 87 and still going strong. Smart but humble, raising 5 faithful children with an unfaithful husband who later divorced her.  She gave me wonderful advice.  Apparently she still cooks for pioneers.....  

@Arauna I didn't even bother reading your complete comment because all you do is nit pick, just as My Harley does. My Harley doesn't have any truthful or any good answers so he mocks by taking tiny pieces of what I write. You have done the same here, to make it look as if I've said something which I obviously didn't say. So be it, if you cannot act honestly, then your comments mean nothing to me. I will only answer this bit. 

Quote : Be obedient to those taking the lead amongst you: what do YOU believe this scripture means. 

That scripture means exactly what it says. BUT that is why that scripture can be so dangerous. 

If those taking the lead should not be taking the lead, if they are standing in the place where others should stand, then 'followers' would be being obedient to the wrong ones. The Pope for instance could quote that scripture, as Archbishop could quote it. And the GB quote it. All being false teachers. Standing in the place where the True Anointed should be stood. 

Now, second quote, which had no connection to the first one. 

 "Obviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture "  - your quote.

You will note this is only half a sentence, and taken out of context.. And I was stating fact, that we can all read a scripture and all get different meanings from it. This was in answer to @Anna who said I should read my Bible and make up my own mind (or something similar to that). 

If @Arauna wants proper conversation then I suggest she tries being more honest with her quotes from me, not just quoting half a sentence to suit her own agendas. What is it @Arauna OCD. ? 

Quote @Anna But you still didn't answer my question. Bible in hand, what have you found that the GB are doing wrong?

I think this question has been answered many times before on this forum and it seems you are just going around in circles. Not only me but others also have made mention of the faults of the GB. Besides which you and other JWs will only make excuses for the GB and the Writing Dept and the Elders at al. 

Quote "Blaming the GB et al for not using our brains is just another example of not using our brains. Each person is responsible for their own spirituality." 

Didn't one of the GB say 'God and Jesus Christ trusts us, so do you trust us?'  Wasn't that a sly way of the GB saying to JWs 'You have to believe what we say'.

Hebrews 13 v 17

 Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among youz and be submissive,a for they are keeping watch over you* as those who will render an account,b so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.

Quote "When we stand in front of the judgment seat of God, there isn’t going to be an elder holding our hand, or telling us how to think... "          No not then but there are NOW. 

The GB say they are the F&DS and have said in W/t that they are the ONE channel that God is using (although denying it at ARC) and that congregants should trust THEM. The GB give 'authority' through the ranks, down to the Elders. Then the scripture at Hebrews mentioned above is used to enforce the Elders 'authority'. 

So, if a person is an obedient JW, they cannot choose to be responsible for their own spirituality if it goes against serving the GB and the JW Org.  You and others cannot get this through your heads. 

If a congregant has thoughts that the GB and JW Org are wrong, and if they prove to themselves from scripture, they have to make a choice. Stay in the ORG, in which case then they are serving the GB / Org, or, leave.  

I think you suggested that a person should do their own research but keep quiet about it. 

Quote " If we discern it’s wrong direction then we act on our own behalf, and not tell others what to do, because everyone else has a Bible too."

Now this is where @Arauna will start to say that i 'misuse' scripture. BUT you @Anna are saying use the Bible myself. And thereby lies a contradiction. I can pray for spiritual help and read my bible and come to a decision as to what a scripture means to me. BUT @Arauna will tell me I am misusing the scriptures. Hence, I've said on here so many times before that ONLY the true Anointed will  know truth from the scriptures. Why ? Obviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture means. 

We can take for example @JW Insider 's explanation about the NON 'sign of the times'.  Which @Arauna seems to totally disagree with. 

Quote " We already talked about why there is no need for the anointed to form some kind of special club, just for the anointed. "

I think you've been listening to / reading toooooo much from @Arauna . This seems to be her crazy excuse.  NO ONE is suggesting a 'special club' for the true Anointed. What i did suggest is that they could be in contact with each other Earthwide, which the GB do not want. My suggestion would NOT take those Anointed ones out of their congregations. 

Quote " The reason for that is because we are all one flock "

New International Version  John 10 v 16
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

The Anointed are not the same as the Earthly Class. The sooner people get this through their heads the better for everyone. The Anointed are the BODY OF CHRIST. Do you not understand that God has a special use for them even now. Otherwise God could anoint a person when they were on their deathbed. That Body of Christ has a right to communicate with each other.  Your GB wants to stop that happening. 

This is enough for one comment. So ill stop here. If you insist on an answer to your original question @Anna I'm sure I could waste half an hour giving you answers that you already know. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Yes, you have looked for it here on JWI’s thread.

’Tell me more, JWI. Explain this point about 1914 again, JWI. These are things all over my head, JWI. Please run that by me again, JWI. Thank you for helping me, JWI’

And what is JWI’s reward for this helpfulness, when it becomes clear that he is not throwing out the baby with the bathwater?

It is too stupid to be wicked.

I don't know if you are having a nervous breakdown, or if you are deliberately trying to cause trouble on here but what you seem to imply was that I was saying that to JWI, which of course i wasn't.

If you had read it properly you would have noticed i was quoting what Jesus had said to the Pharisees. 

As for me following what JWI had said, do you have a problem with that ? If so make in known and plainly.  I have  realised for a long time that YOU like to be the centre of attention, well tough luck because you are not, so just live with it. JWI writes things that i find sensible, where as you, Mr storyteller, write utter rubbish. 

What I actually wanted from @JW Insider was simple statements that the GB / JW Org were getting it wrong, and therefore teaching false teachings. Why ? Well one reason is to answer you when you boast about your ministry. Serving your GB and its Org, whilst telling lies to people in the world. 

Have a wonderful day Mr Harley. 

I kinda worry about Arauna, seriously. She seems to be looking for a sign when as already mentioned there will be no sign.  We do not know the day or the hour. Like a thief in the night. Isn't that plain to read ? 

Why look for a sign when one is not needed ? It seems to show a 'physical man' approach, not a 'spiritual man' 

38 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Someone has to delegate the work.  The GB do not do the work but give oversight.  So you think women should be doing this work when bible clearly says that overseers must be men?

Do you think women cannot be of the Anointed then ? 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

17 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You dodo, he has asked nothing of the sort. Go back and read it again.

If I ever reread Revelation and discover yet another beast—one described as one of those little yapping dogs that bite you in the ankle or pees on your pant leg the moment your back is turned, I will have an intrepration for that one that will even make your ‘true anointed” turn green with envy,

Of course you will, you're a story teller, it's your job. 

@JW Insider  It looks to me, in your last comment, that you are saying that the GB and JW Org teach false teachings by misusing scriptures.  They teach 'Signs of the times' which in truth are not signs of the times, but are things NOT TO USE as signs of the times.  Most JW congregants it would seem, believe that they ARE signs of the times, BECAUSE that is JW teachings.

Quoting from your above comment. 

" But no one should be able to excite us with the idea that the day of the Lord is already here. (Yet, we have claimed that the day of the Lord already started, in 1914.)

This is why the idea of a Governing Body believing they are the embodiment of the Faithful Slave can be so dangerous.

Should also note that the Watchtower publications teach us that Kingdom was BORN in 1914, so all these birth pangs should have been in the years leading up to 1914.

That's supposed to be 1914. So we have the birth pangs starting after the child is born. "

I've said that I would not go door to door to teach lies. And I would not advise people to have a 'Bible Study' as it is not a true BIBLE study, but it is a book study, from a JW publication. What you have shown above proves my point exactly. 

@TrueTomHarley says he does the preaching work of God. But if he teaches from W/t publications and does a study from a JW publication it will have the lies / mistakes you have mentioned. 

SO, is it better to preach lies, or not to preach at all, until one knows truth. 

I know that I'm harsh. Jesus was also harsh. The things he called those Pharisees and other Jewish religious leaders. Whitewashed graves, hypocrites, sons of Vipers ? John 8 v  4  ( Jesus said )

 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father

So, although i do not compare myself to Jesus, I do think i have good reason to be harsh. I am looking for truth. 

Quote @TrueTomHarley  "These types of comments from you are so frequent that it seems clear to me you are someone who wants to be told what to do—by a “true anointed,” of course—but you do want to be told what to do. "

Coming from a man that asks if he is allowed to use blood fractions. Is it legitimate ? He asks. 

Well Tom it seems to be you that want to be given instructions from men.  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

19 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Yes, only if your motives are pure.  Why form an elite group? Jesus never gave permission for this. Read James and you will see that if you single out the rich man or show any partiality - you are not doing the will of  jehovah but your own will.

You are so naive  @Arauna .  Can you seriously not see that your GB are the ones forming an elite group.

It is they that claim they, only those 8 men, are the F&DS. It is they that tell other Anointed not to gather together to study God's Word.

Why would your GB tell the body of Christ not to gather together, to upbuild one another ? 

As for singling out the rich man. Anyone that supports the GB are in fact then 'singling out the rich man', by putting the GB above other Anointed. 

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Not you—don’t you ever think? 

If I need a jack-in-the-box that says to every comment “Jehovah’s Witnesses Suck” I’ll go to the store and buy one.

Oh dear. The truth hurts you doesn't it Tom. All I did was give you a truthful and logical answer. 

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Question: (serious question open to all)

When something is said to be a “conscience matter”—as the “blood fractions” today is said to be—does that mean that there IS a right and a wrong to it, but Jehovah allows “wiggle room” “on account of our hardheartedness”?

Or

Does it mean that there legitimately are two different ways of looking at a matter, and he really does encourage us to use our conscience in choosing the course that seems the most reasonable to us?

Does this mean that you rely on your GB to tell you it is a “conscience matter” ?

Can you not decide from your own Bible reading what is right in God's eyes ? 

Quote "Does it mean that there legitimately are two different ways of looking at a matter, .. ? "

Tom, who decides if it is 'legitimate' or not ?  Are you not therefore just doing the things your GB tells you to do ?

I would use the scripture at Matthew 12 v 9 through 12 myself. 

Verse 12   How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.

Was Jesus just allowing 'wiggle' room to do a fine thing on the Sabbath ? I don't think so. I think Jesus was setting a pattern for us to follow. For us to know in OUR hearts what is right. Not to rely on other men to decide for us. 

Quote @TrueTomHarley " not to mention the most clever book interpreting the Book of Revelation, with connections too compelling not to take to heart. "

Which could NOT be the Revelation book by JW Org because they said it basically wasn't all true, in fact it probably had mistakes in..

In 2016 ? Watchtower announced the discontinuation of multiple publications which were key doctrinal guidebooks for Witnesses, including the “Creation” book, the “Isaiah” books, and the infamous “Revelation” book. 

I think we were brainwashed into studying this book THREE times. Repetition for emphasis maybe, or just make them read over and over then they will HAVE TO believe it. Even though they didn't believe it all themselves and basically said so. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Quote @JW Insider " But these do NOT mean the END. If anything, these things will just be a BEGINNING, as things might get worse and worse between now and then. "

Just the beginning ? Matt 24 v 8  All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. or  ' pangs of Birth' as the Interlinear reads.

Beginning of pangs of birth, just the beginning. 

So then maybe my idea of another 10 years is not so silly after all.  

NWT  Matthew 24 from v 1.

24  Now as Jesus was departing from the temple, his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. ²  In response he said to them: “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, by no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”a³  While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives,b the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”d⁴  In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you,e ⁵  for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.f ⁶  You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.g⁷  “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,h and there will be food shortagesi and earthquakes in one place after another.j ⁸  All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. or Birth ?

@JW Insider  So you are saying that Jesus was answering the question "When will the temple etc be destroyed ". Not giving a sign for OUR times.

And are you then saying that this scripture tells us NOT to look at the wars etc as a sign of our times ? 

@Arauna Seems to use the wars etc as a sign of the times NOW. 

The scripture says 'but the end is not yet'. 

And verse 8, NWT says pangs of distress but Interlinear Translation of GREEK SCRIPTURES says "beginning of pangs of birth".   Surely there is a big difference ? 

Quote @Anna  "Many JW's don't think beyond what is black and white, and need everything not only served up, but already digested." 

Yes, this is why the GB and Writing Dept' et al are so dangerous. Because JW boots on the ground have stopped thinking and just serve the GB and It's Org. You seem to admit it but when I put it in words you they deny it. You are kinda funny Anna.  

Quote "This is why many, like you, are under the wrong impression that the GB are supposed to make no mistakes, and cannot be questioned. "

In my opinion, if God through Christ was guiding the GB then the GB would get things right. Why? Well firstly, it seems that in the  eyes of the GB et al, Armageddon is 'so close'.  So there is no time to loose. The preaching work and the congregation should therefore be spot on / almost perfect, so as not to stumble anyone. Why? Because it is PEOPLE'S LIVES AT RISK. It would seem that JW teaching is that if a person dies at Armageddon they do not get a second chance. Hence if a person is stumbled by GB /JW Org teachings, or by Elders in congregations then Luke 17 v 1 & 2 comes into play.

 Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! ²  It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones.

Secondly. You know what would happen if a congregant started questioning the GB's 'guidance'. If a congregant started talking to others in their congregation, suggesting that the GB were giving false information. The said person would firstly be warned, secondly be disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'. 

So how does one 'question the GB' ? Would they give me a personal invitation to visit them to question them ? I think not. (Apart from which i could never afford the air fare anyway).  I am talking about questioning the GB not writing to Bethel, as the later does no good at all. 

Quote " What do you think the identifying mark of these "real anointed" is? "

Zechariah 8 v 23

“This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nationsj will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”

So how will those 'ten men' know exactly who that 'Jew' is ?  

Quote "The anointed of those days were baptized with holy spirit, the HS helped them to speak languages they never knew before, it helped them to perform miracles. All that was finished and done when the last of them died, and wasn't going to happen again."

Are you sure it won't happen again ? Are not the Anointed today 'baptised' with Holy Spirit ? Are they not inspired of God ? How then, in fact, do they know they are the Anointed ?  You of little faith.

BUT your GB treads them down. Your GB slyly suggests that they might be 'mentally ill' and then to those that are Anointed it tells them they do not need to contact each other or to study God's word together.

Why would your GB do that ? Why would your GB say that only they, those 8 men, are the F&DS ? 

Would not truly anointed ones actually want to meet together ? Would not a true F&DS want to gather all the Anointed (via internet / telephone / letter / etc) so as to confer / discuss / build up and share thoughts and blessings from God through Christ ? 

Quote Anna " b4ucuhear hit the nail on the head when he said regarding those taking the lead: "

So I'll quote him " Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before.

You think JESUS gets it wrong ? Seriously ?  So now you are prepared to blame Jesus for the faults of your GB.

No hope it seems for those that put the GB and JW Org above God and Christ. 

Have a good day Anna. 

Quote @JW Insider

"You exaggerate a bit, in implying that the rest of the anointed might get nothing. "

Sorry this may just be my British humour / sarcasm.  But you must admit the true anointed are being kept in the background whilst the GB 'blow their own trumpet' and exalt themselves. 

38 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Maybe Witness will play. Every other word will be ‘anointed’

Not that Tom loves himself, no of course not. But he cannot resist a dig at others. 

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

 

I wouldn't think real estate would mean anything as it would have no value in the New World. 

And money would not mean anything either. 

Buildings would still exist of course but would be on no financial benefit. No one to sell them to or rent them to. 

But another question arises. If only those 8 men are the F&DS, and only the F&DS get the reward. Then what happens to the rest of the Anointed Remnant ?  Do they get nothing because they were not loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics ? 

Quote @Anna  "All this would remove the thought that the GB are the only channel God is using, although G.Jackson admitted that it would be presumptuous to think that they were the only chanel. However I don't think he, or any of the others have put this in writing in any of our publications though. So unless someone has read Jackson's ARC deposition, they will be under the impression that the FDS, therefore the GB  are the ONLY chanel God is using, and therefore to question anything they say is tantamount to going against God himself." 

Yes Anna precisely. When push came to shove, G. Jackson had to admit that the GB were not the only channel God would use. BUT they will not put it in writing.  Isn't that being deceptive ? Or more so dishonest ? As you've said most people, including 'boots on the ground' JWs, will not know.   

Quote "*Questioning God is allowed, but questioning the GB is not! How strange is that? "

I'd prefer not to question God. I think God showed Job who is who, and who not to question. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote @JW Insider  "Of course, obeying God as ruler and not men, doesn't preclude us from "obeying" our congregation elders.. "

It has been the obeying of congregation elders that has kept the Child Sexual Abuse so deeply hidden within JW Org. 

Oh dear. It is such a shame when JWs need to cover up the mistakes and lies of their GB by pretending that anyone that shows truth and reveals the lies and mistakes of the GB and the JW Org is an opposer of truth. 

The sower of seed, just as Tom Harley, deliberately mix up serving God through Christ, with, serving the GB and JW Org. They cannot understand, because they do not have faith, that serving God through Christ is not related to being a JW.  And they also do not understand scripture. 

Mark 9 v 40 & 41

" For whoever is not against us is for us.  And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward. "

Jesus was not talking about his disciples at that time. He was talking about people doing God's will even though they were not direct followers of Christ. 

However :- Mark 9 v 42.

⁴²  " But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith, it would be better for him if a millstone that is turned by a donkey were put around his neck and he were pitched into the sea."

I am neither against God or Christ. I am for both. And i would give more than water to almost anyone that i thought needed it. 

But I do not preach a false message as I do not wish to stumble anyone. The GB on the other hand have preached many false messages and have stumbled many people, including the Victims of CSA who were literal children at that time of being abused.  

@Srecko Sostar Fantastic comment. You are very deep thinking. But can you explain the last paragraph please. 

Indeed the first century Christians, and even the Jews around at that time, were given lots of 'signs' in ways of miracles, curing all sorts of disease, turning water into wine, producing food enough for 10.000 people or more (I think they only counted the men), raising the dead et al.  It was as much seen by the physical eye as it was faith.  But now it seems, no one expects miracles.. No one but me maybe. 

I loved the bit about Russell having 'faith'. gave him wrong insight and understanding. Other people' faiths, around Russell, also accepted same things that made them to be in wrong expectations too.

So it is today it seems with the GB and JWs. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Outta Here   Quote " And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out."

More GB worshipping at it's best  The blind leading the blind and wow, that is a massive pit they've fallen into. 

• @Witness Thank you. 
•  
• Those events from 1914 onward were, as Jesus put it, “a beginning of pangs of distress.” (Matthew 24:8)  pr section 7 pp. 25-28

Wt’s Greek Kingdom Interlinear:  “Will rise up nation upon nation and kingdom against kingdom and will be famines and [earth] quakes down on places; all but these (things) beginning of pangs of birth”  Matt 24:8

1914?  You have had children.  Since when do birth pangs/pains follow birth?  And why would the Watchtower not translate their Bible as their Interlinear reads, as “beginning of pangs of BIRTH” if not to support their lie about 1914?

I used to do the ministry work with an elder some times, and we would go out into the countryside to witness to 'country folk'.  He would look at the nice thatched cottages with lovely gardens and he would say ' One day one of these could be yours'. He meant after Armageddon. There seem to be quite a lot of JW folk that think you won't need to 'build' for a while because there will be enough useable property for those that God through Christ has shown mercy to. I don't think God or Christ are destructive for the sake of it. It wouldbe easy enough for them to remove humans without even damaging one building. The pain and horror for those not found worthy could easily be just being shown what they could have had. Just a quick glimpse of paradise, before they are destroyed. And why destroy everything that is pretty or useful just to destroy that which isn't.