Patiently waiting for Truth

@JW Insider & @Srecko Sostar This helps me to have faith that the True Anointed will get true direction from God through Christ, by Holy Spirit. 

Because we live in such an important time period and because there is supposed to be a large in gathering before Judgement time, there needs to be real spiritual upbuilding for the Anointed Remnant, so that the direction they give will be positive enough to draw people to God. Hence my feelings that there is quite a long time before that Judgement time.  The time period is important but that doesn't mean in is very short. I honestly feel that God or Christ will make much more known to those they chose as worthy of being the F&DS. 

11 minutes ago, Arauna said:

True, but Jesus said: “Notice the fig tree and all the other trees.  When they are budding, you see it for yourselves and know that now the summer is near." 

When I watch world events I compare it to what I have read in the bible.  It helps me to understand what is going on. This is why I agree with the GB.  It is not worship of them which allows me to agree with them -  it is knowledge of the realities around me.   I see the big blossoms opening up everywhere! 

Whilst i agree with you, the JW Org predicted 1975 or mid 70's. The Org has been talking about world conditions since JWs began. But it could still continue for ten or more years. In my opinion, it is not world conditions that are important, it is God's own reasons for His timing. God could keep it 'simmering ' for another 100 years if He so wished. 

I'll repeat what I said above.

 There is an in between. There is a 'safe harbour'. Not on the JW ship, but not in that murky water either. 

Um what happened, in your eyes, to the thoughts :-

To 'keep oneself without spot from the world'.   

To, 'first clean the inside of the dish or bowl, then the outside will also be clean'.

And for the true Anointed

English Standard Version
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

And you say :-

The problem is NOT that the "organization is "unclean" ... the problem is that it is plagued by the exact same things that plague ALL organized religion.

But it seems God said IT SHOULD NOT BE. 

I've often said I'm suprised people are not chipped. And the UK has, I think, tried to introduce the idea of cash-less transactions, doing away completely with 'real money' and only allowing transactions via card or phone. I remember watching a film where a man's identification was completely removed from all records, bank accounts and even details of his birth. he basically didn't exist. But many film ideas come from real life happenings. I presume all card and phone transactions are tracked anyway. And I know that online transactions and even enquiries are tracked and then advertisements for similar products are sent to your computer. Give it a try if you use Facebook, Ebay etc. They all link up and send you similar things.  

In my opinion the W/t and Awake mags that showed so much destruction, are all wrong.

I am of the opinion that many buildings will remain and warehouses full of food, clothing and useful vehicles, and possibly wi/fi and computers  .   Unless of course God will send angels to take messages all around this Earth. There will need to be communication Earth wide........ But then some folks think we will go back to horses and carts. 

But then as I'm not a JW, according to them I won't survive anyway  

@TrueTomHarley Oh you are good for a laugh  Quote " To my mind, the GB do obey him as ruler "

You are so funny.  You are also so blind.

You cannot see that your GB have simply followed on from past lies and mistakes. You cannot see that your GB use dishonest lawyers in courts. You cannot see that your GB are presumptuous in saying that they are the F&DS.  You cannot see that your GB are exalting themselves by saying only they, those 8 men, are the F&DS and that the true Anointed should not even contact one another around this Earth, and should not study God's word together. 

And then the GB admit to not being inspired by God's Holy spirit. And it seems to have been proven that GB members are not chosen by God's Holy spirit. Homosexual GB members ? GB members that have written study books, but then been D/fed ?  

And the GB are withholding information from the Courts / Authorities concerning Child Sexual Abuse. Information which could help victims to gain peace and closure. Giving that information would show the willingness for justice, mercy, love, and to 'Serve God as ruler rather than men'. 

But NO. Your GB Govern / Rule over / Dictate to, the Watchtower Soc' and JW Org and 8.5 million sheep.  Making up the rules, misusing scriptures, misleading million. Well it's working Tom, it's misleading you. 

@James Thomas Rook Jr.  Thank you for your perspective.

Quote " And besides, there will be clueless officers and crew on that ship to make you miserable ... but if you "jump ship", you better have a better place to go. "

It seems to me that JWs are brainwashed into thinking that when a person leaves the JW Org, that person will go 'back into the wicked world'. JWs are surely not that naive as to believe that every ex-JW suddenly becomes a 'wicked person' doing all manner of wicked deeds.  It's what your GB / Elders et al want you to believe of course.  But it isn't so.

There is an in between. There is a 'safe harbour'. Not on the JW ship, but not in that murky water either. 

However Mr Rook, your ship is sinking, the murky water is getting in, the JW ship, as you know, is no longer clean. And why would I wish to be part of what is unclean ? 

27 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

... place  keeper for reply after my nap ..... my eyelids are slamming shut.

Then I'll read it tomorrow if I'm on here.  

22 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Possibly the majority of PIMO/POMO etc are left out of the chart. Many ex and non-JWs surely believe that Jehovah exists. Probably the better question is not "Do you believe in Jehovah?" but "Do you believe the Watchtower's Governing Body was appointed as The Faithful and Discreet Slave in 1919?"

Oh dear, but that brings about other questions.

If the GB was appointed as F&DS in 1919 (which I do not believe) then why was the whole of the Anointed Remnant once known as the F&DS ? 

And they weren't even called the Governing Body back in 1919 were they ? 

Weren't they Directors back then ? 

Anyway, I'm physically out and mentally out but i still believe in Almighty God whose name may or may not be Jehovah. I much prefer Yahweh = YHWH  or HWHY in Hebrew, right to left.  

20 hours ago, Anna said:

I agree with the credibility bit, however I do not think that ensuring contributions are the prime reason for keeping that credibility. I really believe it is a matter of pride, and the fear of what could happen to the faith of many people as a result of admitting that 1914 could be a mistake. If we were to think that the only reason is money, then this would be a fraudulent organization, which I don't think it is, and I dont think you do either.

@Anna Does fraud only involve money ? Can it involve faith ? Can it involve people's lives ? Can it involve truth ? 

Wasn't 1975, or the 'mid 70's' a big carrot ? 

And you spoke of the F&DS - 1914. Which F&DS did you mean ?

Did you mean ALL of the Anointed, or just those 8 men ? 

And PRIDE you mentioned. Doesn't that come before a fall ? 

And 'a fear of what could happen to the faith of many people as a result of admitting that 1914 could be a mistake. '

Wow, so keep telling lies. Build the JW Org on lies, just to keep the followers in. 

Anna, you just don't understand, how much that you do understand. It's like you write whilst in a trance and truth tells you what to write. You love the GB and Org so much, yet you tell the truth about them, which shows up what they are really like. 

@James Thomas Rook Jr. I say the same to you. You tell the truth about the GB and the Org, yet you stick with it. I think it was you that commented about Germany and Hitler. But it's as if the Org is Germany and the GB are Hitler, But still you serve . 

@JW Insider  The way you write about the Writing Dept' is as if you were writing about a worldly Newspaper office.

I see no sign of spirituality in it at all.  And, re-using old Watchtower material ?  Just feeding the sheep any old rubbish then. Or, completing a new Watchtower article in less that two hours, scriptures included ? Wow, I'm glad I don't go to the KH anymore.

And i can further see the need for the true Anointed remnant to put in place by God through Christ. 

23 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In fact, after checking to see if the malcontents were misbehaving here (they were) I did indeed have a share in the ministry. Did you? 

Yes, you may say that I did the ministry not of Christ, but of JW.org. Nevertheless I read scripture to a number of people and discussed it with them, and offered to do the same with several more. Did you? Did you this week? Did you this month? Have you done that even one day since leaving the organization of JW?

I would not ask Srecko this because he does not think it worthwhile to preach a kingdom message, speak of God, or tell of his purposes. But you do—or at least you have said that that you do. Jesus says it is important to preach the good news of the kingdom. Do you do it? If you want to do it on your own completely divorced from the JW organization, that’s fine by me, but do you do it?

Will that be a ten-year lunch?

Do I have this straight? I look at the JW organization and say, “Nah—they’re far from perfect, but I appreciate what they do to facilitate the spread of the good news.” I cooperate with them and thus I have a share in fulfilling Christ’s command. You, on the other hand, have found them not pure enough, and so you do nothing. 

Are you not on strike against God? Are you not laying down the law with Him that He had better get His Act together and produce a true anointed good enough for you, and should he do that—THEN you will preach the good news, but NOT NOW.

—even though it is crystal clear that people need the encourage from his word NOW and the promise of something better.

How can you be so self-centered?

As you are a typical JW @TrueTomHarley and you are being well trained by your GB and Elders et al, you are presumptuous, and because of that you have already decided your answers before you ask your questions. 

Quote @TrueTomHarley "Yes, you may say that I did the ministry not of Christ, but of JW.org."

Yes exactly, I would and do say that. 

Quote " Do I have this straight? " Answer : NO

You presume, because your mental and emotional being tells you that you must presume, that i do nothing. You answer your own questions with falsehood. 

Quote " How can you be so self-centered? "  Answer : I'm not.

Do I 'go out on the ministry' ? No.

Do I talk to people about God and Christ and a coming time of Judgement ? Yes.

Do I talk to people about 'world conditions' ?  Yes 

I do it online, and I do it face to face with people that, as you might say, are 'sighing and groaning' about world conditions and about how difficult life can be with so much stress and worry etc.

I mention that God has plans for a much better way of life for people here on this Earth.  And I mention that this world is 'lying in the power of the wicked one', the devil. I tell them, hence there is no point looking to human governments or hoping that protesting will do any good. I tell them that only God can 'sort it all out'. Because only God has the supreme power and ability and only God can see the complete picture Earthwide and therefore knows whats best for humans. 

I do not go deep into the point that Jesus Christ has been given the power and authority. 

BUT, as I've said before, but you chose to ignore, I can only tell people things that I TRULY BELIEVE MYSELF.  

I will not go preaching a false message. I will not go preaching things that i do not believe. I will not go offering a JW book study, when the book used could easily be full of lies or mistakes. 

I will not go telling people to attend a Kingdom Hall when I know 'it may be unsafe there'. 

I will not go telling people to attend a Kingdom hall because the teachings are from the GB and the Writing dept' and none of them are inspired of God, hence many of the teaching are lies or mistakes which will be changed to suit the GB at a later date.

Quote "Are you not on strike against God? Are you not laying down the law with Him that He had better get His Act together and produce a true anointed good enough for you, ??? "

IF YOU ONLY HAD FAITH you would realise that I am doing as i should be doing. I AM WAITING ON GOD.  I have faith that God WILL PRODUCE a TRUE ANOINTED.  But you do not have such faith, so you cannot understand. 

JWs are looking for a sign, just as the Jewish religious leaders did. Hence you have been given dates in the past, that failed of course, and you need to keep being given new books and new videos, and new messages to preach (that fail of course). You so much need to see things with your eyes, because you lack faith so cannot 'see' things with your heart. 

People will need to be encouraged even more in a few years time, but by then the true Anointed may be in their proper place, running either JW Org or some other Organisation of God's choice. 

You say I'm self-centred, but it has been admitted on here that JWs are looking for the Judgement Day within their own lifetime. Now that is self centred. Putting a date on Armageddon was both selfish and presumptuous. The GB placing themselves above the 'rest of the anointed' is both selfish and presumptuous. 

I hope this answers your questions Mr Harley, even though I know they were not actually real questions. 

I presume life shortened from the time after the flood due to radiation from the sun. Of course it would take time for that to kick in but I presume it had an effect on the human body. Is it radiation or UV something like that ?  I know we are now supposed to use 'sun blockers' / sun lotion. Just a thought 

You seem to switch from inside the congregation, to outside the congregation.

As you said, Paul was talking about inside the Christian congregation, but then you seem to say that it is right for the GB and JW Org to use that scripture to mean 'in the world'. 

Quote "So what could possibly be wrong with a doctrine that teaches that the final generation of mankind in this system of things should start in 1914? "

Firstly, I thought the GB / Org was now going with 'overlapping generations'.

Secondly, What age would you want them to have been in 1914 ?

Because they would be 106 years old in 2020 if born in 1914. 

And in Psalms it says that a persons life is 70 years or 80 if they are strong. 

Seems a bit of a contradiction to me. I know some folks do live to over a hundred but how many, where are they, and do they have true knowledge of God ? 

Are you actually a Watchtower writer, a 'Talk' writer for Sundays, or a ghost writer for the GB ? 

Of course the End is getting nearer, that is obvious. But i don't think global problems have any play on it. God through Christ will KNOW EXACTLY when to ACT.  It does not matter how many of us humans die in the mean time. The resurrection is a promise from God. A resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. 

Is your faith wavering ? Do you need to see a sign ? Are you looking for that elusive 'generation' ? 

Remember the words of Jesus "A wicked and adulterous generation keeps seeking a sign,* but no sign will be given it ............... 

7 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The fan goes dead the instant you pull the plug.

That doesn’t mean the blades seize up. They may spin for awhile. But the fan is dead.

Yes, they were 'dead' in God's eyes though they still lived human lives. 

@César Chávez If you don't know the difference between worldly wisdom and Godly wisdom then you are simply not a spiritual man/woman. 

You've simply gone round in circles to prove nothing. 

NWT 1 Corinthians Ch 2 v 14 -15

^{14 "} But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually. ¹⁵  However, the spiritual man examines all things,.. "

Now I can understand that, so why can't you. And I'm not a JW. 

And as for this :-

Quote "Adding to Christ words and that of God’s is the gravest of intent a human can make."

I agree with you, and if only the GB and Watchtower writers understood it, then JW Org might just stand a chance of getting God's approval. The Org constantly go 'beyond the things written' and the GB exhort themselves calling themselves the F&DS. Placing themselves above the true Anointed. 

But they show themselves as physical men not spiritual men. After all what spiritual man would dare to put a date on the coming Judgement ? 

Wow I can see how urgent your Armageddon is, you are still sat at your keyboard  

As I believe it could be ten years away or more, I'm now going to have lunch. 

Quote @TrueTomHarley  " The purpose of organization is to magnify an activity. "

That is so funny. The Bible Students and JW Org 'magnified their activity' by telling lies and by guessing at dates and getting it all wrong. Wow that was progress wasn't it. 

The Ten years was a misquote by @TrueTomHarley the story teller. He loves to tell stories and to mock others by misquoting them.

I actually said originally that Judgement day would probably be 10 years away or more as it would take a long time for the JW Org to get back into good standing with God and therefore be useable, or for God to have the true Anointed remnant here on earth doing his will and gathering the earthly class. But i also said that God could do it in 10 days if He so wished. 

Mr Harley just picked up on the 10 years because he is a storyteller and loves to get attention for himself. He offers nothing that is upbuilding but just loves to ridicule others. Over to you story teller. 

Update  

I've just noticed that the story teller or someone, has now added the idea that true Anointed will give the date of the Judgement.  No, the true Anointed know that no one knows the day or the hour. It is only false servants of God that put dates to it, and how silly they have shown themselves to be. 

@Arauna Quote "We have more than enough reason to thank them for keeping us moral and awake! "

Those things you list that you have great knowledge of. You did not learn them from the GB or the JW Org.   So your personal 'keeping awake' is not because of your religion. 

And your religion, the JW Org is not in good standing with people of good morals and you know why. 

I admit to not having half the 'worldly' knowledge that you have, but I don't think i need all that knowledge, just to know that the world belongs to the devil and it is a wicked place. 

Unfortunately the religion you are part of has misused it's own knowledge to make false statements in the past. Hence many people no longer trust your religion and its leaders. Add to that, the CSA not being dealt with in a loving and honest way. Add to that the misuse of disfellowshipping and shunning at a time when people need mercy and love.  As the world becomes more wicked so does JW Org. instead of shining like a 'lamp on a lamp stand', the JW Org is being seen as part of this world.  

If, your religion JW Org, honestly believed that Armageddon is so close, then they would all be selling their homes, as they did in the 70's, and would be spending every hour in the ministry possible. None of you would be on here waffling away. You would all be in regular prayer and ministry. You would all be working together and sharing all possessions, just as they did in the first century. You would all see an urgency to preach and worship. 

But instead, you all sit in your nice homes, just as i do, and we waffle away on here. Where is your urgency if you believe the Judgement is so close ?   

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Go back and read it again with more meditation.

No thanks one suffering was enough 

@James Thomas Rook Jr. 

NWT Genesis 6 v 3 

Then Jehovah said: “My spirit will not tolerate man indefinitely,b because he is only flesh.* Accordingly, his days will amount to 120 years.”

NWT  Psalm 90 v 10

¹⁰  The span of our life is 70 years,Or 80 if one is especially strong.*But they are filled with trouble and sorrow;They quickly pass by, and away we fly. 

@TrueTomHarley Mr Harley, one good point about JW Org. Easy access to the Bible for reference when conversing on here. Though for personal use i do cross ref' it with others of course.

Psalm 90 v 10 

New King James Version
The days of our lives are seventy years; And if by reason of strength they are eighty years, Yet their boast is only labor and sorrow; For it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

Berean Study Bible
The length of our days is seventy years—or eighty if we are strong—yet their pride is but labor and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away.

It is not God who gave all future generations a severely limited lifespan ... it was their parents.

But didn't God reduce that life span to 120 years then 70 years ? 

3 score year + ten. 

@TrueTomHarley You write a lot of words, as story tellers do, but you say nothing of importance.

Quote "that Jehovah’s Witnesses have the highest rate of mental illness of all Christian religions."

Well I've no idea but it's a shame to know when some commit suicide. Very sad indeed.

Quote "There is a cost to being a disciple of Christ. " 

Yes but it is different to the cost of being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. 

Quote " Don’t go groveling over the education that those early Christians didn’t have but which is now thought essential. "

The early Christians were Jews that had a basic education about God and how to serve Him. Then Jesus built on that basic education and taught them what they needed to know for that time. 

Life now is far different and we each live in different lands. Christians are Earthwide. 

As for further education well it may be that some folks need it to earn a living. Life is not as simple as it was in the first century.

This has all been said before but :-

Basic education never taught Hebrew or Greek to working class English folks, nor probably American folks.

Basic education never taught working class folks about how to make Blood Fractions or how to discuss medical procedures, or how to build cell salvage machine. 

Basic education for working class folks never taught how to design and build massive structures such as a 1.6-million-square-foot headquarters in Warwick, New York.

Basic education is just what it says on the tin. It is a foundation. A beginning of learning. 

Quote "Christianity started off as a working class religion. It still is and the leaders of the faith among Jehovah’s Witnesses are still as they were then—“untaught and ordinary.” "

Does that include the Lawyers in USA that represent the Watchtower / GB / JW Org ?

In the first century they said simply 'We must obey God as ruler rather than men' 

BUT Now they consult their lawyers / solicitors / accountants  et al, BUT you try to pretend it is still the same. 

3 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Pretty good answer yourself.

When the new & reformed & true anointed manifests itself in just ten years, as you have said will happen, will it also state that Armageddon is close? Or will it say not to worry about it—it is far off?

Will it also say that one must be in association with it? Or will it say that any ol person believing any ol thing can be saved so long as he/she is sincere?

Follow your ex around so as to warn others to stay away? In the actual world, this is called stalking and it can land you in jail.

Oh dear Mr Harley the story teller thinks he is so funny.  I see you've found a friend so that you can both pat each others back. 

@TrueTomHarley One does not need to follow JW Org around, it is Earthwide. And one can use the internet to good use to give warnings, with proof of wickedness inside of JW Org.  

What the true Anointed will NOT do is to put a date on Judgement day. Unlike the Bible Students and JW Org's use of 1914, 1918, 1975, et al. More proof of false teachings and lies from that Org.

The true Anointed will surely baptise others in the name of Almighty God and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  Not in the name of, or connected to, an Organisation. 

NWT. Matthew 28 v 19 

¹⁹  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,o baptizing themp in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit

And actually i think the true anointed will be known well within the next ten years, not at the end of it. And they will of course make known the coming Judgement time, but will not emphasise it as most important. The most important being to help make God's name known and to clear God's name of the mess that the JW Org has made of it. Maybe God's name will not even be Jehovah. There are many other forms of God's name known. 

A lesson here for you Tom. When you say a person must be a JW to be saved. 

NWT Mark 9 v 38 through 41. 

³⁸  John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.”d ³⁹  But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. ⁴⁰  For whoever is not against us is for us.e ⁴¹  And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ,f I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward.

Those ones that Jesus spoke of were not Christians following Christ in the true sense.. But they were serving God because what they did was obviously righteous in Jesus' eyes. Jesus did not condemn them did he ? Look at verses 40 & 41.  He will by no means lose his reward.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

That statement is so ludicrous and over the top it is not even worth a reply....... pagan gods heh?  Please specify.....

Contradiction of yourself, as you did reply  .  I think possibly he means the Watchtower and JW Org as being false gods.