Patiently waiting for Truth

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Only to a selected few. The key word is "sniff".

You just made my day. From plus to minus, if it is JW Elders, then what would be the opposite of that?

The opposite of JW Elders would probably be True Christians. 

Does it really matter who a person on here is ?  Does it matter if a person uses 10 different 'usernames' ?

If a person can bring some info' to the table that is surely good ?  Then others can confirm or criticise that info. 

But to waffle on about who a person is or is not, what good is that doing any of us ? 

I have a theory that this Forum is run by JW Elders. The purpose of the forum being to study the feelings and actions of JW's, Ex-JW's, Apostates, et al.  Then those Elders report their finding to a superior body, and it may even get to the GB.  

But this theory does me no good, nor anyone else, so I will keep it to myself  .  Coffee time. 

@Arauna  Quote " I think that things LOST are a better topic " 

But it isn't the topic. You would want it to be because as I've noticed you don't seem to have any things GAINED' 

The GB have lumped great weights onto the shoulders of the congregants and the GB nor Elders lift a finger to help. 

Just as the Pharisees did, adding negativity but nothing positive. 

What I'm showing is that the GB is not motivated by Holy Spirit, and is not moving the CCJW forward. It is stagnant, but wallowing in immorality. 

And you think this Organisation has God's blessing. And you think Jesus Christ died for this ? 

And you think 'Only those in JW Org will be saved ?  

And yes, the GB said Apostate lies were behind the Child Sexual Abuse 'rumours'. 

And you and others wonder why some folks dislike the GB and it Org ?  I honestly want to cry. 

How will God, through Christ, sort out this total mess ?  How will Jesus be King of a Kingdom full of hypocrites ? 

And some say the end is nigh. Give it 10 years maybe. That way God and Christ will have hopefully built an earthly Organisation worthy of THEM. 

This is a place where news and ideas are expressed, debated and information shared and as such ad hominem (personal) attacks  or labels are not permitted.

You are joking of course ? The forum would not exist or would stand silent if people stuck to this rule  

I do hear occasionally on this forum, the expression of, (oh dear it's gone now), I'll say Basic beliefs, Foundation beliefs, of Jehovah's Witnesses. 

My point being, when were those basic foundations started ?  Yes we have Russell and Rutherford et al. So who decided what was what and when ? 

We have things like 'hell fire' eternal damnation' ' soul in continual punishment' etc. But who basically found the truth from God's word about 'The dead are conscious of nothing at all' ?

Then we have the 'resurrection of the dead',  those being split into heavenly and earthly. Who decided these things from scriptures ? And when ? 

It would probably take me 10 years, which I probably do not have left, to research all the things I wish to know. 

So here is a question. From 1960, what new serious Bible knowledge do we have from those whom regard themselves as the F&DS or top of the tree ?

What have they given to the congregation that is of extreme importance ?  BUT, more importantly what have they given that they haven't changed since giving it ? 

So we've lost the 7,000 year creative days. We've lost Armageddon in 1975, We've lost no blood / replaced with blood fractions. We've lost the Superior Authorities as God and Christ, and probably lots more. BUT what important beliefs have we gained since 1960 ? What IMPORTANT SCRIPTURAL input have those at the top made since 1960 ? 

5 minutes ago, AlanF said:

The self-righteous JW apologists on this forum are pitiful. They're more than willing to condemn individuals in "the world" for wicked conduct, but just as willing to excuse similar conduct among themselves, and especially by their leaders the Governing Body. Mostly they simply deny that these charlatans did anything wrong at all. Much like Donald Trump's Republican defenders are doing in the current House impeachment hearings.

Let's watch as some JW apologists try to excuse their leaders for the conduct described below.

JW Insider mentioned a circuit servant in Australia who was removed and reassigned in the early 1950s. This was Theodore Jaracz, who later became a GB member (according to Raymond Franz he was appointed by Nathan Knorr as a slap in the face to the other GB members who had ousted Knorr from power; he was known for being unreasonably harsh). Jaracz eventually worked his way into the de facto position of 'supreme GB member' by force of personality, essentially replacing Fred Franz and becoming head of the Service Department. As such, and because of his temperament, he was feared and hated by many lower-order Bethelites. There is very good evidence that Knorr had removed Jaracz as a circuit servant in Australia for some sort of sexual misconduct with a minor(s), which is a smoking gun for his attempts to hide all mention of child sexual abuse from the JW rank and file, both in print and in dealings that appointed officials such as Circuit and District Overseers had with elders and the rank and file. If Jaracz was a child molestor 40 years earlier, it was a good bet that he retained a tendency to excuse them in the 1990s.

Jaracz was at odds with GB member Lloyd Barry, who by all accounts was a decent man.

As for other GB members, by far the worst I know of was Leo Greenlees, who was removed from the GB in late 1984 for sexually molesting a 10-year-old boy. The parents reported the molestation to the Society, and eventually the GB met as a judicial committee to deal with the accusation. They found Greenlees guilty, but judged him repentant, and assigned him to be a special pioneer, which entitled him to the usual SP stipend. This was obviously self-serving, since to expose Greenlees' misconduct to the public would have been fatal to the JW organization. After all, a homosexual pedophile does not develop those proclivities at age 72, but has been practicing such things since he was a young man, and Jehovah God would not anoint a homosexual pedophile as an elder, much less as a GB member. Furthermore, the Ray Franz incident was fresh in the GB's minds, and Franz had recently published "Crisis of Concience", and likely the GB wanted to take no chances of a repeat with Leo Greenlees. So they avoided disfellowshipping him and sent him off with a stipend.

This situation with Leo Greenlees is positive proof that "Jehovah God" has nothing to do with the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Another GB member wicked by JW standards was Ewart Chitty, who in the early 1980s was removed from the GB and reassigned to a lower level position in the UK Bethel. Chitty was, in modern parlance, very "flaming" (i.e., exhibited strongly stereotyped homosexual behavior). He seemed to prefer young men as roomates. Apparently there were accusations of inappropriate behavior by several young Bethelites, which caused his demise.

Once again we see behavior by a GB member entirely inconsistent with the Society's doctrine that elders and GB members are "appointed by holy spirit".

There is even evidence that Nathan Knorr was a closet homosexual. He did not marry until he was 48 years old, and his wife is reported to have told close friends that their marriage was never consummated. Knorr was obsessed with telling young men, especially new Bethelites, to avoid masturbation, which invokes clear shades of "methinks thou dost protest too much". And of course, his failure to remove Theodore Jaracz in the early 1950s as a Watchtower official but reassigning him to a lower position in the WTS organization strongly indicates that Knorr was soft on child sexual abuse.

Many Watchtower officials have traditionally been soft on child molestation. In the mid-1940s my own mother, in her mid-teens, was hit on by at least one prominent WTS official much her senior.

 

I don't know you and I don't know the who's who of GB members over the years, but I do have a tendency to believe you. 

So i will now await others that have your knowledge, to weigh in with agreement or disagreement. 

Let battle commence  

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Maybe in USA this is true.  Many of my JW  friends in Sweden are well educated  and here in Rep Georgia most have higher education. 

I found educated people in Sweden very silly. Why?  They are totally secular and for 3 decades have learnt only about Darwinism in school and higher education. They are not interested in the bible at all and state they do not believe in a creator.  When one discusses evolution with them one discovers they have just accepted evolution without thinking it through......It is a myth that highly educated people think logically or only go where the evidence lies. Dogma or brainwashing  at universities deprive students of critical thinking skills.

So much of what you say can be used against the JW Org. 

Some people accept what JW 's say in a so called Bible Study. I know for fact that here in the UK during a study JW's  say things like 'If you don't understand that we will come back to it later, but just accept it for now'.  (Yes I've sat in on bible studies). 

Brainwashing in JW Org "deprive students of critical thinking skills".  

Hence when some JW's do start to think, and start to study God's word personally,  they tend to leave the Org. 

1 hour ago, Witness said:

 

I’m sharing a comment made by a JW on this forum concerning the organizational responsibilities of the eight leading men in the organization:

“’To he who has been given much, much will be expected’..….the GB operates, in my view, in harmony with that.”

As I was thinking how to reply, I detected the counterfeit in place by Satan, with traits that previously had escaped my notice. I perceived in its totality, Satan’s well-crafted counterfeit in play. We realize the scripture the JW cited (Luke 12:48) refers to the parable of the faithful and wise “house” steward in Luke –a steward of this anointed house: 1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 3:16,17

The “faithful steward” is to provide “food in due season” to all servants in the house, by gathering and managing provisions from each of the Master’s servants and dispensing them among all. (Luke 12:42) Accordingly, the anointed Body who have received their various gifts of Holy Spirit, build the Body up spiritually by contributing their share of provisions. (1 Cor 12:4-7; Eph 4:4-8,11-13)

Since each slave is a “steward” of God’s Word, all who contribute the needed provisions would be in harmony with Christ’s truth. (1 Cor 4:1,2; 12:12,27) (John 6:47,51; 1 Cor 10:17; John 15:4; Matt 7:20)

Is this what your eight leaders allow to occur among the anointed “house”? No. They have voiced the stipulation that the anointed are not to gather or bond together; especially, to study the scriptures. Do you detect any malicious threat against the anointed behind this message? (You can find this man-made decree in both the 1/2016 and 1/2020 study magazines) If a JW family is allowed to study God’s word together, why restrict the anointed from doing the same, as a spiritual “family”/body under their Head Jesus Christ? Please ask yourself this, JWs.

However, the counterfeit becomes crystal clear when I read over the JW’s comment once more: “’To he who has been given much, much will be expected’….. the GB operates, in my view, in harmony with that.”

Your leaders are most definitely faithful stewards of another house comprised of the “Gentile” elder body who are stationed as the working cog of the organization. (Joel 2:5-9; Rev 9:3,7; 13:1,2,4) What JWs see, is a body of men (counterfeit to the anointed Body of Christ – Rev 13:1,2; 12:7; 19:19/Rev 1:20; 5:10;12:4;Dan 8:10; Rev 11:3; 19:14) working harmoniously to provide and distribute spiritual food under the steward’s guidance. (Rev 13:12,14)

A writing committee made up of elders or “helpers”, (a counterfeit priesthood – 2 Chron 23:6; Num 3:10; Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:4; Rev 9:3,4;13:5-7;11:2,7/1 Pet 2:5,9;1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 1:6; 5:9,10 ) offers its contributions to the organization’s “steward”. And, as a good house manager, the steward scrutinizes, approves, compiles and direct the distribution of what those in this house have submitted.

To the average JW, it appears that the composite steward is getting the job done, in a humble and faithful manner. Your leaders have aided this perception by admitting to the large load of responsibilities each of the eight members face every day; the responsibilities of spiritual oversight and managing the regular operations of an earthly organization through its various committees. (a counterfeit “Zion”- Zech 4:7,9; Rev 8:8; 3:9/Rev 3:12; 5:10; 7:15)

For one who is ignorant of the truth about the identity of God’s House and the anointed Body of Christ, Luke 12:42-44 can easily be understood as fulfilled in the role of the GB. The counterfeit relies on what the eyes physically see, and the ears physically hear; visual evidence of a smooth-running organization, with opportunities to hear what personal messages your leaders convey through videos.

To sustain this “spirit-directed” image which your leaders have sanctioned as the source of truth, it is necessary that the anointed are beat down into oblivion, by use of the unscriptural comments found in your magazines. (Rev 13:5-7; 2 Thess 2:4; Dan 8:11; 11:36,37; Rev 11:2) No rival against the organization is permitted; unity among all JWs as defined by the “steward”, is imperative! Yet, such actions characterize a “wicked steward” ruling over the anointed House of God. (1 Cor 3:9,10; Eph 2:19-22)

According to God’s word, the anointed must seek out their brothers in Christ, working together under their Head. But for the wicked slave, unbreakable unity among all members, is a control mechanism that ensures the slave’s unrighteous power over the anointed priesthood, facilitated by the “Gentile” Beast. (Heb 10:21,24,25; Col 1:18; Eph 5:23,26,27,30-32; 1 Pet 4:10; 1 Cor 12:24-26) (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:15,16,7; Rev 11:3,7)

“Instead, God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the less honorable, so that there would be no division in the body, but that the members would have the same concern for each other.” 1 Cor 12:24b,25 

This Body is the anointed Temple “Bride”, with Christ as her Head. (John 2:19-21; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 2 Cor 6:16; Eph 5:23; Rev 3:12; 21:2)

Through it, God’s laws becomes known to all; but since it lies in ruins, “living stones” mute and scattered throughout the organization, God’s laws are unheeded. (Mal 2:7; Heb 8:10) (Neh 1:4-10)

 

Pearl Doxsey:

First of all, we should establish that the master Christ's household, are genuine anointed (Eph 2:19-22; 3:17; 1 Pet 2:4,5; Heb 3:6)

Next, to recognize that Jesus appoints a steward/shepherd to the household sheep of each era, to be the channel of spiritual food to the master's household (Luke 12:42; Rev 11:3; John 21:17; 1 Thess 5:12,13; Heb 13:17; Rev 22:1,2; Matt 7:20; Rev 1:20; Phil 2:15; Dan 12:3,10; Rev 22:6; Mal 3:1-3)

Such stewards are compared to stars/burning lamplight/messenger-angels... to their own lampstand/congregation/household (Rev 1:20).

Those appointed stewards, can prove diligent, obedient, refreshing, loving, and faithful,
or unfaithful, wicked, drunk, disloyal, deceptive, spiritually lethal, and unloving (1 John 3:10-12) (Rev 1:20; 8:10,11; 9:1-3,10; 13:11,15; 11:3,7; John 16:2).

The wicked stewards, battle with the faithful ones (2 Cor 11:1-15; 10:3-5; Eph 6:12,13; Rev 16:13-16;17:14; 2 Thess 2:1-3,9-13; 1 Tim 4:1).

 Each hearer must decide, which "congregation"/lampstand they will belong to, based upon whose spiritual food, and which steward/prophet, they accept.
The wicked steward (as described at Luke 12:45 and Matt 24:48,48)…

…also are described as "eating and drinking with drunkards" as well as getting drunk themselves (Luke 12:45; Rev 17:6; 18:24; Matt 23:31-39; 1 John 3:12,15,16).

That alliance with other drunkards, is depicted within many scriptures... (Matt 24:49; Dan 2:33; Rev 13:1,11,15;17:3)

...as well as how that alliance works against/"beats", the faithful (Rev 13:15,7; 11:7; John 16:2; Mark 8:35; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10; Luke 21:24).

There is a saying that one can be “drunk with power” and is exhibited in those with narcissistic personality disorder. The most famous narcissist that we all know, is Satan. He is the epitome of selfish intentions used in achieving power, and which leads to another’s destruction. (Isa 33:1; Luke 4:5-8; John 10:10) His tool to achieve it, is deception. (Matt 24:4,5; 2 Cor 2:11; Eph 5:6; Rev 20:7-10) His other necessary tool is the use of humans to carry out his deceptive plans. (Matt 24:24; Luke 22:31;2 Thess 2:1-3,9,10; 1 Tim 4:1;Rev 16:13,14; Rev 8:10,11;13:11-13; 12:1-4,15)

He is the greatest adversary that God’s anointed…and all of us…must face in these last days. (Gen 3:15; 1 Pet 5:8; Eph 6:12; Rev 12:15) A human can reflect the same narcissistic traits as Satan, caring only for their personal image and their need for admiration. Their will and desire are accomplished through those whom they utilize, who also become “drunk with power”. (Matt 24:48,49; 2 Tim 3:13)

From JWs, I continually hear how meek and lowly the organization’s primary leaders present themselves. Can a narcissist hide his true intentions and appear “righteous”? Well, can Satan? (2 Cor 11:12-15 )

 

Pearl continues…

The events now taking place between the anointed with power (through an alliance with the Gentile Beast)
 

... and those whose power has been "trampled down" and "brought to nothing"... (Dan 8:9-13; 2 Thess 2:4; Dan 11:31-36; Mark 13:13,14; Rev 11:2; 13:7,10; Luke 21:24),
 

...did not take God and Jesus by surprise. They prophesied these developments to us, thousands of years in advance. It is only a matter of recognition on our own part, whether or not we perceive and understand, what is now taking place in prophetic detail (Matt 24:15,16; Mark 13:13,14), within God's household of priests, and the unloving steward, now using a Beast, to "beat" his fellows.

From Pearl Doxsey’s article, "By this ( love among yourselves ), all will know that you are truly my disciples"   4womaninthewilderness blogspot

 

The organization’s claims against the anointed are defiant, sarcastic, slanderous and hypocritical; sourced from the mouth of a superior, “elite” “wicked steward”. The dual leadership of false “christs”, and a false priesthood, is a combined superior force, that has perverted God’s laws regarding His priesthood. (Ezek 44:6-9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Cor 4:8; Rev 13:15-17; 16:13,14; Matt 15:9)  

I do hope there are those out there, who comprehend what is happening to God’s anointed ones in the organization and the abomination committed against God’s laws and his Temple. (1 Cor 3:16,17) I hope you care enough to learn what the importance of the anointed Body of Christ means to those desiring the Kingdom. (Matt 10:40-42; 25:34-36; Rev 21:9; 22:17)  

The irony in all of this; the organization would be no different from any other religion if the anointed were not part of it. Truly, they are held hostage as a unique treasure to be manipulated and dominated by men, a repeat of history. (Isa 49:24-26; Luke 21:24; Col 2:8; Isa 42:22; Rev 13:10; 3:10,18; 18:4-8)

So what is the step forward ?  The world / system of things,  is obviously getting worse, and the bible tells us of a coming Judgement time. So how will God's true Anointed move forward to claim their rightful position ?  How will people of this world know who to trust ?  

2 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Are you sure that you are NOT John Butler?

Oh dear, I thought YOU would be above all that rubbish. Defence mechanism is it ?  

Quote  " They don’t look in the rear view mirror too much. "   Yes the two reasons the GB don't look in the  rear view mirror too much are these. 1. They are frightened to see how much damage they have done to people. 2. Their guilt would overpower them and their conscience would make them step  down. 

1 hour ago, Anna said:

To be practical; all those who are concerned about allegations of CSA cover up in HQ, and these allegations come to light, and it is proved some were made deliberately and harmed children, then no doubt justice will be carried out, if not by human hand, then by God's hand. And the organization WILL be cleaned where necessary. In fact, this cleaning is happening all the time, (whether it be regarding doctrine or organisational procedure) because of the imperfection of man, it is something that is necessary and inevitable. It was going on in Bible times and it hasn't stopped. Some of it is immediately visible, some not so much. Some of it happens quickly, some takes more time, but in the end it happens one way or another and will continue to happen. And this is what we all want, isn't it? Some of us may even contribute to some changes personally, and we know worldly institutions have already effected changes for example in the handling of CSA. 
So what is the purpose of some on here who criticize? Surely they are not expecting, or wishing for the organization to cease to exist? That would be unrealistic of course. But if the criticism is constructive, and hopes for a better way of doing things, then that is a good thing. However, if the criticism is merely to tear down, or vent ones anger and dissapointment, then these people forget that the organization is based on faith in God, and that its members will always rely on God for the ultimate solution. So there is no point in unconstructive criticism (when is there ever?) only to vent. And that's also fine if they feel this is a good place for it.

Why ? Well I think scripture tells us to examine all things. And if we are 'spiritual' people  we will examine the spiritual and the physical.  CSA is just one item to look at. Shunning is another. Blood is another. Doctrine another. 

I am wishing for an Organisation through which I can serve God properly.  I am neither for or against JW Org.  Unfortunately whilst following this forum i have found out much that I am unhappy with about JW Org. Much that tells me that God and Christ cannot be happy with this Organisation. I have also noted that some JW's on here are totally blind to any faults in the Org, and i think that is why 'those in opposition' have to 'shout so loudly'. 

Regarding only the CSA, it is Earth wide in the Org, and will probably take years to 'sort out', hence it may be the ruination of the Org. The GB seem to be fighting it every step of the way, which makes them look even more guilty IMO. And here in UK  there is talk of another investigation, this time by the I.I. C. S. A.  I haven't heard any follow up on this though. 

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I was talking about a situation from 40 to 50 years ago, and it might have been a good thing, in that it revealed the tension that is seen before a necessary transition. There had been a time up until the years before 1975, when the strongest voices in the Writing Department and from the Vice President were considered to "gospel" for the Service Department. The Service Department was in charge of pushing higher and higher activity goals and was given a lot of credit when goals and quotas were met. But the Service Department also handled correspondence for serious lifestyle questions that came in, and ultimately handled disfellowshipping rules and practices. This tended to "bleed" back into the Writing Department so that "suggestions" and "principles" were being turned into Watchtower dogma. (For example, question about marital practices in the bedroom, or organ transplants based on the musings of Fred Franz turned into matters of disfellowshipping, when they probably should have been left up to the couple or individual. But after enough disfellowshippings over such things, the rules had to be set in stone.)

The head of Service wasn't ready to stop being a hard-liner when the Writing department had begun to realize that they had no reason to be hard-liners on every topic. So the tensions were necessary to get clarification, and hopefully the Writing department would win out on certain flexible points at a time when the Service department wanted to be unbending.

There was a time when elders all around the country sometimes said "The Society is actually Harley Miller" because it was Harley Miller who was in charge of the way questions were answered when the elders needed clarification. The brother I mentioned before took over for Harley Miller. (Sorry about that, I am trying to no longer use names but I've already mentioned FWF and HM.)

It seems to me now that the WT is much less likely to promote harsh handling on several of these points they once fought over. The Service/Correspondence departments are now evidently completely in line. And one of the reasons I think of the current GB as less likely to have "pedophiles" in their midst is that there are fewer, they appear to get along better, and I think they realize they must be much more careful about past mistakes and past reputation. When questionable persons were asked to join the GB during the 1970's, there was a rule that past mistakes of elders could be ignored if they were long enough in the past and they were not currently causing a reputation problem in the congregation. The point was that there was no need for any type of public reproval that the congregation needs to know about if it were far enough in their background. This is no longer true of any connection with child sexual abuse. No exceptions are to be made CSA, even if they were in the past.

 But after enough disfellowshippings over such things, the rules had to be set in stone.)

One has to wonder how many people were thrown to the wind, how many people were stumbled. How many may have become depressed, spiritually lost, or even committed suicide, 

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

This is important, too. One of the lists kept by the Society, that was discussed in a recent court case, actually concerned a list of pedophiles who had been converted through the prison ministries, persons who had been convicted of their crimes before becoming Witnesses.

There has been some "social media" confusion, perhaps deliberate, among the list of Australian cases and victims, a central list of congregational "judicial" disciplinary actions against congregation members (including elders) being kept at the United States headquarters, and lists of persons in situations such as the formerly convicted "known" pedophiles. It should also be repeated that some family members who have been victims of incest have been very adamant about not allowing such lists to be exposed anywhere for fear it will result in prejudice against the victims in society or even in the congregations. Historically, this has been a big reason for covering up the crime of incestual rape, in many societies, but unfortunately it is sometimes spouses and other relatives who push for covering it up and thereby override the need to protect the child.

I think this brings us back to 'serving God as ruler rather than men'.  I would also think it should be possible to make known the name of a pedophile without naming the victims. And I think it is just an excuse for the GB / JW Org. 

To 'look after 'widows and orphans', to look after all children, the names and locations of all pedophiles should be made known, not only internally but to the world. Arauna says, we cannot know the minds of such ones. That they are Satanic. 

I say, that all pedophiles should carry their burden continuously in this old system of things. Of course they should be allowed into Kingdom Halls, and allowed to study God's word,  but only on the understanding that they are known to all. Unless of course you want the GB and JW Org in deeper trouble. 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Jehovah judges perfectly because he understands perfectly.  BUT you are twisting the facts:

It is PEOPLE here on the forum who have appointed themselves as judges and definitely are not perfect judges. They judge the past according to the modern day secular laws that are now in place and according to current society habits.

I grew up in the 1950s when these things were a taboo to talk about in society.  AFTER  the 1960s, with the sexual revolution, they started to talk about  this subject in the secular press. When I worked for newspapers as a reporter in 1980s many of the first laws were in place in first world countries and court procedures were slowly refined until 2003.

The inquiry that was done in Australia into more than 2000 organizations was done to close further legal gaps in the system.......... BUT these laws are not always enforced in many countries where there are laws.  In UK rape gangs have been operating for years with a blind eye by law enforcement.  Child services, both in USA and UK were exposed to be part of child sex rings and reporters and policemen who try to investigate it, are found dead.

This is why I often mention the abuses of high society (the rich and powerful) and other levels of society who are known to marry 9 year old girls against their will - these people get different treatment than others.  .... and JWs are judged harshly because they were not vigilant enough and tried to stop it from 1950s by keeping records.  JWs are now retroactively tried in court with sensationalist press, when boy scouts etc just closed down and no court accountability given..... so it creates a false impression that JWs  condone this. 

Other "guilty" members of society (some are teenage boys tried as adults) get many years in prison are branded for life and forced to live in villages away from society for the rest of their lives. But exposed child trafficking rings etc rape rings - nothing done.  This is not Jehovahs justice...... and in the end ..... it will be Jehovah and Jesus who will judge every wicked thing done in secret whether the individual pretended to serve him or not. 

In the meantime, millions of children's lives are messed up...... and jehovah will judge those with mercy and love. 

If anyone here on this forum thinks for a moment that children are currently protected  - they are very naive to this morally rotten world.  Child services in many cases are now private companies and are in it for money.  Sex trafficking of children is more lucrative than drug trafficking...... and much more prevalent than we can even imagine.

I disagree with the assumption that we can understand the mind of these children rapists...... they are so Satanistic.... we cannot imagine the lengths these people will go to and how far beyond a conscience they are..... and they are amongst us ..... and sometimes they pretend to be our moral leaders in society. They are judges, political leaders, military, FBI, MI5, etc etc....where they have more power and resources to cover up their activities  ....and the making of money.

Internet porn has exploited children and made them more vulnerable...... The new UN curriculum (forced upon all schools in the West) now sexualizes children at a tender age and is preparing the way for LGBTQ.....P.   

We are living in last days where any form of morality is becoming something of the past...... Sexual exploitation of children once was a spoken taboo - soon to be openly practiced by anyone who wishes to do so. 

Chidren are being married off legally in many countries as we speak.  In Germany a judge threw out a case where a 10 year old was married off.  This now has set a precedent: police will no longer arrest perpetrators who exploit 10 year olds because this is now regarded as marriageable age. Muslim laws are eroding the old western laws.

We are going back to the time before jehovah gave laws to the Israelites.  Like the Canaanites we will see openly child exploitation and even child murder is returning.  In Africa- the practice of using child body parts in witchcraft medicine is back in full scale.  Recently I saw a mother crying.  She found her shepard boy still half alive with half his brain removed, his sexual organs etc removed.  If this shocks you..... I hope it did.  This is the reality of the world we are living in now. Satan is rampant and people with no morals are doing what they like.  There is a semblance of law and order but underneath it all morality is falling apart.

People here on this forum try to make JWs into monsters.... when the real monsters who are exploiting children are using the worldly system to do this.  The worldly legal system is becoming less and less accountable and favoring the rich and powerful (and certain favoured minorities) to do as they please. 

People here do not understand why I talk about the worldly legal system and its double standards..... Well look at the headline above...... JW opposers are gloating because we are being used as a target by this very worldly system which protects other groups. 

Yes - we will be judged by the world and Jehovah. The one, often serves injustice - the other is just and really exists..... which one's verdicts will stand forever? 

 

Quote @Arauna I disagree with the assumption that we can understand the mind of these children rapists  ..... they are so Satanistic.... we cannot imagine the lengths these people will go to and how far beyond a conscience they are..... and they are amongst us ..... and sometimes they pretend to be our moral leaders in society. 

Yes, and they are in the JW Org............... and YOU say 'we cannot understand the mind of these child rapists'.... So how can the Elders hide them in the JW Org, and how can the Elders say that these rapists are repentant ?     Remember YOU said we cannot understand the mind of these children rapists. They are so Satanistic... 

So get real, wake up, and stop looking for excuses in the outside Devil's world.

Remember scripture, Don't tell your brother he has a straw in his eye, when you have a rafter in yours. = JW Org,  Don't say how wicked the outside world is when the inside of JW Org is just as wicked. 

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If people are not satisfied with people who taking a lead, who rule, governing over them and their life, because they have double standards and twisting justice in "worldly system", they have chance to replace them by voting. And so on until they find the best people world can offer.

Of course! Voting is the answer! How’s that working out these days?

The Atlantic has run a (disapproving) article on populists—the winners of popular elections

“Right now, the four most populous democracies in the world are ruled by populists: Narendra Modi in India, Donald Trump in the United States, Joko Widodo in Indonesia, and Bolsonaro in Brazil.”

I could be wrong, but I suspect you will not be happy with such voting outcomes. 

“According to our research, populist governments have deepened corruption, eroded individual rights, and inflicted serious damage on democratic institutions,” read the Atlantic banner, as they tallied up 46 of such populist winners.

Your criticism is no more than your humanism speaking. You pull out all stops to slam JWs. It is not as though you have anything better to offer. What you have is considerably worse.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/hard-data-populism-bolsonaro-trump/578878/

 

Someone must vote in your GB members, and it sure enough cannot be God or Jesus Christ because they would make better choices..... Someone must vote in the Elders, and I don't think it has anything to do with holy spirit because we can see how wicked many elders have been and still are.... So your Org must have some sort of voting system, which of course they pretend involves Christ. 

15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It's quite possible you are right about the current eight old men who may have never personally touched a child (in an abusive way). It's my impression that they are also quite innocent of any such issues.

But I don't think you can ever say that anyone in such a position as in the GB cannot comprehend such wickedness in others. They have dealt with a lot in their lives and they have been forced to deal with the topic even if they didn't want to.

And not to deal in gossip, but I can speak almost positively about the following situation, at least I can speak for the trustworthiness of the brothers who gave me the information. What I heard about several years ago from a friend in Writing, were things I talked about before the ARC, and they came up again from another brother after I discussed the ongoing ARC with him.

It actually started with two members of the Governing Body, who seemed not to want to speak to each other. Both became GB members in 1974 and this issue was visible during the time I worked around them. One had previously been assigned to lead the Branch in Australia and the other had previously been assigned to work in Japan. The brother assigned to Australia was recalled suddenly and demoted to become a Circuit Overseer in the Midwest in the United States. After many years of rebuilding his reputation, through Circuit then District work, he finally was asked to join the Governing Body in New York. The explanation I was given was that the demotion was punishment for being involved in accusations of child sexual abuse. (I never knew if the accusations had been in Australia, the USA, or both, but a later separate rumor had tied him to a case in the United States through a Witness doctor.) At any rate, by 1974, this issue was considered to have been from long enough in his past for his appointment to the GB.

By 1991 one of the GB members was heading the Writing Dept, and the once-accused GB member was heading the Service Dept. You probably already know that the October 8 1991 Awake! had an article on Child Sexual Abuse that included "worldly" therapy as a possible solution for some victims, and this head of the Service Dept hated the article. (For that matter it's probably true that most members of the Governing Body apparently thought that worldly psychotherapy was little more than something worldly or even satanic.) But by now, there were Witness psychotherapists and psychiatrists, and they appreciated the article. Mostly the article was appreciated by CSA victims, and tons of letters of appreciation came in. For an April 1992 follow up, the head of Writing decided to print some excerpts from some of those letters of appreciation and the head of Service actually "stopped the presses" to have the article replaced while the head of Writing was out of the country. The head of Service didn't get his way; presses started up again, and you can read the article in the April 8 1992 Awake!.

But, as head of the Service Department, he sent out several of the most well known Circuit and District Overseers on a campaign in 1992 to speak with abuse victims to let them know they should never reveal anything about their abusers and their abuse, or they could be disfellowshipped.

One of those men in the intimidation campaign is now on the Governing Body.

You can take these are merely unsubstantiated rumors, and I admit that I have no evidence to substantiate them. I can only speak to the honesty and track record of the brothers who told me about them.

 

There is so much in that comment that, if it's all true (and I do believe it) , tells me the GB are not the F&DS AND tells me they areote not even of the Anointed. 

And again this threat of being disfellowshippped, which many JW's deny.

Quote  "It's quite possible you are right about the current eight old men who may have never personally touched a child (in an abusive way). It's my impression that they are also quite innocent of any such issues. "

So do pedophiles go around wearing a badge so that you can recognise them ?  One of the main problems IS that they are not recognisable from 'nice' people. They keep it so well hidden obviously or they would be noticed immediately. 

Quote "But I don't think you can ever say that anyone in such a position as in the GB cannot comprehend such wickedness in others. They have dealt with a lot in their lives and they have been forced to deal with the topic even if they didn't want to "

The child sexual abuse accusations in Australia has been going on for well over 50 years. That much was proved in the  ARC. So anyone of the GB within that time should have been well aware of the CSA in the Org. Do we yet know how long CSA has been going on in USA ? 

GB members that don't want to talk to each other. And now, GB members that don't want the Anointed around the earth to speak to each other.  Please tell me where is 'the love for one another' and the 'everyone working together to serve God properly', that the JW Org pretends to have ?

1 hour ago, Bogdan11 said:

I can appreciate your frankness and passion. At what point did you begin to see the GB as perfect? Were the apostles perfect? Please submit an instance where Jesus removed the original sin from the apostles.

Since the GB stay away from world influence, I don’t see where they think the same as the world.

Now, is there a difference between God's law and secular law that not only the GB would need to address and Elders as well? However, don't you think local elders would be more aware of current government laws?

Since I’m new to this forum and I as you have been monitoring this website for a long time, and to avoid my personal opinion not to be challenging to others, I will not argue, Watchtower policy or their bylaws since it appears this kind of debate can only be expressed by those that have a grievance. It appears for some, having to express an opinion by comments or a downvote can have consequences. I don’t believe I’m allowed to respond to such criticism unless I can get a green light from the website owner. I will wait to receive the rules of engagement and proper protocol with a point of order. Therefore, I yield that to you, sorry.

For now if you don’t mind, I will remain natural since I don’t wish these 2 post to be my last. What I agree with, even governments hide wrongdoings. Why isn’t society being more proactive in holding governments accountable just like the institutions?

You are copying Arauna. You are doubling backwards to compare the GB and it's Org to the world which belongs to the Devil. 

You should be comparing the GB and the Org to God's standards. 

Back in the times of Israel the surrounding nations were offering their children in the fire to Molech. (This has been mentioned by people on here before.) Then it seems the Israelites also started offering their children in the fire to Molech. How did God feel about that ? Did God say, 'Oh well the Israelites  are not burning as many children as the other nations so it doesn't matter ' No I think not. God judged His people on His standards. 

Quote from 

• w84 10/1 pp. 14-19
• Remain “Without Spot From the World”

“The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.”—JAMES 1:27.

² “The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this,” wrote the disciple James, “to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.” Another rendition is: “Pure, unspoilt religion, in the eyes of God our Father is this: coming to the help of orphans and widows when they need it, and keeping oneself uncontaminated by the world.”—James 1:27, The Jerusalem Bible.

I quote you "Since the GB stay away from world influence, I don’t see where they think the same as the world."

The GB deliberately tell lies, and they use dishonest lawyers in courts. They jump ahead of any spiritual guidance from God or Christ and make stupid statements such as the 'overlapping generations'. the two witness rule concerning child sexual abuse, a rule concerning accusing adults of different sexes of committing fornication if they happen to be in the same house overnight, funnily enough it doesn't apply to adults of the same sex, bit behind the times there..   Telling the anointed not to think about contacting each other around the earth (when we know the anointed are the Body of Christ)... And don't even think about mentioning some of the stupid videos they make... And now a court appearance it seems. Well they do seem to like being in front of the camera.  

As for you commenting and being blunt. Do it. As long as you are not abusive and not too insulting to people  

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Did i ever get a reply as to what will actually happen in these court cases ?  Are the GB members liable to get fined ?

Is there a possibility of a prison sentence for each one ? 

 Looking back when the GB were playing games between the CCJW and WT Soc, basically sending letters to them selves, and the courts were not too happy about the wasted time etc. Fines imposed but then scrapped. So i would think the GB are not in favour with any of the courts. But things drag out so long so probs no result until next summer. 

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The investigation was quick and concluded that there was nothing to it. The detained Witnesses had employed “martial arts techniques,” it said, and the abuse they complained of was no more than an attempt to restrain them from doing so.

Well at least in Russia they can honestly say it is religious persecution. Unlike in America and other countries where it is about the CSA. and the shunning policies.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

 

 

I beginning to understand why the GB are sick. They are mostly American. Maybe that is why i cannot get any sense here.  

2 hours ago, Bogdan11 said:

I agree. Do you know the United States cannot be sued unless it allows it to be sued? The USA has immunity no different from that of individual States.

If they didn’t have that immunity, imagine the millions of lawsuits against it for child abuse would be filed. It would mean the USA had failed its citizens for allowing hundreds of thousands of child abusers in their country.

I figure if a country is allowing civil lawsuits across the board for institutions, they should be included. Those advocating for child protection should then voice their advocacy to be fair. Meaning if institutions are at fault for allowing child abuse through no real fault of their own, then governments and their citizens should bear the same responsibility. This would include those advocates that have done nothing wrong but their government has.

If the argument is to have substance, then it should be fair and above board.

BUT the GB and JW Org are supposed to be 'No part of that world'  And are supposed to keep themselves 'Without spot from the world'  So why you and others are comparing the GB and it's Org to the world all the time, makes no sense.  

Add to that, that JW's WERE TOLD NOT TO REPORT TO THE POLICE OR OUTSIDE AUTHORITIES. The excuse used being that it would bring shame on Jehovah.   

Add to that THE TWO WITNESS RULE which encouraged Elders to call Victims liars. 

Add to that the Shunning which JW Victims were frightened of.  

Now you just might open your eyes and see why the GB / Elders / JW Org are SO guilty. 

On 6/28/2017 at 3:09 AM, The Librarian said:

1958_From_Paradise_Lost_To_Paradise_Regained.pdf 40.39 MB · 19 downloads

also here:

https://issuu.com/testigodejehovah/docs/1958_from_paradise_lost-to_paradise_regained

 

 

The Paradise book. I had that, many years ago. I wonder if i still have it somewhere.  

Arauna seems to have OCD about hating all ex Witnesses and about being blind to faults with the GB and the JW Org. 

She even seems to have OCD about using the expression OCD. 

Quote "ONE minute you judge us for being too harsh and the next that we are too soft? "

Yes too harsh by punishing some who were actually victims, but too soft by protecting paedophile elders and ministerial servants. Sorry to be so harsh but it HAS BEEN PROVEN in court cases, here in UK as well as in USA. Arauna, I'm talking facts here. There is real proof of my statement. 

Quote "Would you like it if you committed fornication or  some other act if the entire act was announced to the congregation? "

Didn't the Apostle Paul do exactly that ?   1 Corinthians 5 v 1 New International Version
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father's wife. 

But I'm not talking about fornication between two consenting adults, I'm talking about Child Sexual Abuse by an adult member of the congregation. 

Quote "Study the laws that were in place and do not judge us by the current laws retroactively  but by the neglect of congress (regress) to not put proper laws in place."

I know nothing of law and certainly i know nothing about American law,  BUT, remember, 'We must serve God as ruler, rather then men'. God's laws should be written on the hearts of those taking the lead. So to use secular law as an excuse to mishandle those breaking God's laws, makes no sense. 

Although some of Jack's input is interesting, i do fear for his spiritual and mental well being. 

I also hope he does not own a gun  

Witness which I suspect is you,  

Is this rubbish really going to start again. I was following this blog / forum long before I chose to join it, and one reason I didn't join earlier was reading all the horrid stupidity of people saying, x was y, and you must be he, and telling one person that they had three different user names just to give themselves up votes etc etc, 

It is obviously people that are losing a debate / discussion, or people who feel hurt by someone's comments. BUT it does no good to the blog as a whole. Just wastes everyone's time. 

9 minutes ago, John H Slaughter said:

That’s understandable. That’s what I’m saying, you’re not alone with your belief. JWinsider (JW) believes it, Srecko (exJW) believes it, and Witness (exJW).

 

You are among the same type of friends that have the same belief not in accordance with scripture. You’re doing fine. There is no need to be angry here.

 

1 Corinthians 12:12-27 New International Version (NIV)

 

Unity and Diversity in the Body

 

12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

 

Hence I feel the scriptures were / are written for the Anointed, not for the earthly class. 

I feel that only the Anointed should fully understand scripture as they are 'one' with Christ. 

The rest of us are just the other sheep.    I like the scripture about 'Ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' 

The 'Jew' being the Anointed class, the ones clinging being the earthly class. 

20 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Gulf War, Spanish-American, Civil War, to name a few. “People helping people:”—I admit I have never looked upon it that way. You are on to something, Srecko.

To be sure, many will go to war with noble intentions. What the overall picture shows, however, is that “man is dominating man to his injury.” Isn’t there a religion somewhere that points to the solution to that predicament?

Yes, One of the good points about JW Org