13 hours ago, BroRando said:

Under our New Understanding, he is elgible to divorce an opposer.

Rambo making up his own rules now  

Doesn't answer my questions.

I'm interested in this big change of thought from the idea of, millions of individuals that would continue living, to the idea of, 'only Jehovah's Witnesses will continue living'. 

So it would be good to know exactly who Rutherford expected to 'continue living'.  

14 hours ago, Witness said:

If the Body was formed from a definite number,

Revelation 7:4 

Berean Literal Bible
And I heard the number of those having been sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, having been sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:

If the number of them has to be sealed, then there must be a set number. 

You wrote a lot but didn't answer my questions. I think we must agree to differ. 

Why are people so frightened of my questions ?

@JW Insider Please help me out here. I'm sure you could provide an inteligent answer. 

I expect no sense from Tom and Jerry above though. 

16 hours ago, Witness said:

Those who belong to Christ (his body members... his messengers who serve him), become spiritual seed of Abraham. They inherit the promise made to Abraham.

They, inherit the earth. They bring with them from heaven, healing and blessing to all the Nations.-

16 hours ago, Witness said:

The teaching that there is a "heavenly hope" and an "earthly hope", is false.

Those who belong to Christ (his body members.. This must surely be a limited number ?  A body can only have a certain amout of members / parts.  Do you therefore believe that the 144,000 is the real number ?

They bring with them from heaven, healing and blessing to all the Nations.- So who or what is the 'Nations' ?

The teaching that there is a "heavenly hope" and an "earthly hope", is false.  How is this false if only a certain number will have access to Heaven ? 

I thought it was the GB / Org that have started to teach that ALL JWs are part of the 'body of Christ'.  

Now you seem to be teaching it.  If there is no distinction between 'heaveny' and 'earthly' ones, then tell us what (non body of Christ) humans become ?    The plot thickens. 

A public talk titled "The World Has Ended; Millions Now Living May Never Die" was first delivered on February 24, 1918 in Los Angeles, California. Five weeks later, on March 31, 1918 the title was changed to indicate absolute certainty: "The World Has Ended; Millions Now Living Will Never Die." The public talk continued to be delivered under that same title until 1925.

At a 1931 Bible Student assembly in Columbus, Ohio Rutherford proposed a new name for the organization, Jehovah's witnesses, to differentiate them from the proliferation of other groups that followed Russell's teachings.

Joseph Franklin Rutherford, also known as Judge Rutherford, was the second president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) from 1917 until his death in 1942.

OK, a few questions. 

If I'm right what RUSSELL had built up was an Association of Bible Students possibly earthwide ? 

So, what Rutherford had taken over was this Association of Bible Students. But Rutherford broke away from that and formed an Organisation naming it Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931.

Now, this creates a question.  Who were the Millions now living that would never die ? 

This was 1918. Pre-JW.  International Bible Student era.  So exactly who did Rutherford expect to 'never die' ? 

(At this point it matter not that his prediction failed. More to the point of who he expected to live on).

And when Rutherford's breakaway 'group' were named Jehovah's Witnesses, did his idea change from 'Millions' now living will never die, to, Only JWs now living will never die ?

There must have come a time when the quantity of people expected to continue living decreased rapidly. Because Rutherford's JWs would have been far less than the original International Bible Students Association. 

And when exactly was this Millions now living will never die idea, removed from the JW doctrines / teachings ? 

There seems to be lots of discussion about RUSSELL on here, but not much about RUTHERFORD. However it was Rutherford that 'built' the Jehovah's Witnesses religion. 

I'm interested in this big change of thought from the idea of, millions of individuals that would continue living, to the idea of, 'only Jehovah's Witnesses will continue living'.  So it would be goodto know exactly who Rutherford expected to 'continue living'. 

(information taken from https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/218007.Millions_Now_Living_Will_Never_Die_ )

The thoughts are mine but I found this book online when looking for information. I would think about buying the book but then wonder if it is likened to 'hero worship' / idolatry. 

Any thoughts ??? 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

so I hope to be around long enough to see these greedy people (for power, control and money) who bluff themselves that they are doing what they are doing for the "greater good" and sustainability - lose their billions and see everything fall apart that they so arrogantly have built for themselves.

Yes I hope to be around for it too. But we are both looking at a different group of people  . 

On 10/5/2021 at 6:26 AM, JW Insider said:

So, another tactic is also to spout off one's most controversial opinions on an internet forum and see who has evidence that can push back or redirect them with additional evidence.

  So don't moan if other people do likewise . 

13 hours ago, xero said:

https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2021/10/05/wheres-the-biden-executive-order-mandating-the-vaccine/

 

Good information.  It's crazy though. I think things like this have happened here in UK, where the Police are told to do things that are not even written in law.  So much bluff and so many lies. 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If God had imagined things that way, then he would not have even embarked on an experiment with free will. He would already write the rules, so, let people read, remember and obey the rules aka God.

He gave rules to Adam. Told Adam what he could do and what he should not do. 

And we have 'rules', 'laws' and principles in the Bible, which is inspired of God.  But we have the free will to follow those 'guidelines' or not to. 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Does God want man to be a mature individual who is capable of making mature decisions on his own, reflecting the “image of God”? Or that a man, on the contrary, be an immature individual who must constantly ask someone else for advice or instruction on what to do, how to decide on something?

Very good point.  I know a JW who's wife died because she did not have a blood transfusion, whereas now she could have some fractions from blood.  So maybe that man should have made the decision by using Bible scripture not by obeying humans.  It's one more reason I'm no longer a JW, because i want to be guided by God through Christ, not by men. 

On 10/4/2021 at 5:35 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

In primitive terms, free will would be equated with the conclusion that a punishment would be obtained for a choice made beyond that choice prescribed by someone else. If there is no choice other than the one determined by law, then we have no reason to talk about free will in matters of such things.

The free will is whether you chose to obey or disobey. Whether it be obeying God or Man's laws. 

The obvious thing is that every action has a reaction. You may choose to jump off of the top of a high building, but the reaction would be that you would go downward rapidly.  There are laws of many types, gravity is one of them. 

But human 'perfection' relies on the human obeying God's laws in all ways. And we know that both the devil and Adam had the knowledge needed to make their own decisions. The Devil was an Angel and would have been well trained for the job of watching over this Earth and it's humans. Adam had been given direct instruction by God.  The free will was the choice to obey or disobey God. 

We, even as imperfect humans, have the choice of obeying God (to the best of our ability) or deliberately disobeying God.

This is my disagreement with the GB and many JWs. They so say 'dedicate' their lives to obey God through Christ, but can easily be seen to deliberately disobey God.  

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

This is why it is a universal issue - because a spirit son was thinking bad thoughts before he acted upon them and then enticed eve to sin - just like he enticed Jesus - who did not bite.

I have often mentioned this to people that do not understand the situation. This period of time that we are living in concerns all in Heaven as well as all on Earth. As you say, it is a universal issue. And the outcome will be once for all time. It will be completely settled and only then will there be 'true peace and security'. 

17 hours ago, Arauna said:

If you are so blind that you cannot see through this ruse above - you are really far gone!

I had previously said, 

On 10/3/2021 at 7:35 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Although the 'investigation' is obviously anti-JW

I do see how some things are just anti-JW, but i also see when the Watchtower / GB  / JW Org have wrong direction too. It's a matter of being balanced. And as for all the other things you've mentioned, I just don't go there. It's not my business to dream up thoughts of what the 'world' is doing. 

When things happen we will know, and if we are serving Almighty God through Christ, then we need not worry. 

For those that try to preserve their life will lose it, but those that lose their life will gain it back again. 

https://www.forum18.org/archive.php?article_id=2686

16 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

i have always wonder why if the garden of eden was a pure sinless place ,where no sin was permitted,ie it was protected from sin ,that sin [satan]in the form of some type of snake ,which is descibed as a wild animal was permitted to enter such a place in the first place,apart from the issue of the test of those rebels/the test was just a tree which had no sin ?

Sin didn't exist before the devil tempted Eve.  The angel that became the devil must have been the first to commit sin. 

The snake would have been a harmless animal, as would all animals.  Adam had control over them all. 

Berean Study Bible
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”

On 10/2/2021 at 7:42 AM, Matthew9969 said:

I don't remember Noah demanding financial donations to build the ark and legal assistance for his sons.

That's funny because the Leaders of the JWs used to say that the Org was the new Ark 

18 hours ago, Arauna said:

Accusations, accusations like Satan. It is merely your opinion..... God had tremendous patience with the Israelites but sent them into exile because they were not keeping the Sabbath years, divorcing their wives and taking foreign wives, they were breaking  the laws of God by taking property off the vulnerable, defrauding, divorcing and corrupting justice for the poir apart from all the disgusting false gods. 

I have seen no practice of this.... so you are more than a false accuser.... but I leave God to judge that. ....

But the GB did write in the Watchtower magazine that the Anointed would not want to meet together for prayer or Bible study, and the GB wrote that the Anointed would be 'working against the Holy spirit' if they did meet together for such things. The GB put that in writing so it cannot be denied. 

As for divorce and adultery, I've seem plenty of it in the congregations I've been in, here in England. 

And again, as for corrupting justice, we only need to look at the CSA judicial decisions and court cases. And the hiding of known pedophiles in congregations of JWs. Some of those pedophiles were (and maybe still are) Elders and because they were hidden in congregations they managed to sexually abuse more than one child continuously.  Unless your think all of the Victims Earthwide are telling lies. 

And you will remember that up until 2013 ( i think it was that year) ALL of the Anointed were classed as the Faithful and Discreet Slave, but that tittle was suddenly taken from them by the GB. So did the GB exhalt themselves or belittle the reast of the  Anointed ? 

Aurana, we are all imperfect, but those with more power and responsibility (the GB) need to be more careful with how they use it all. 

On 10/1/2021 at 8:45 AM, BroRando said:

Jehovah does not lower his righteous standards,

Very true that Almighty God 'does not lower His righteous standards'.

But ufortunately the Watchtower and JW Org have never had righteous standards. 

From the times of the Bible Students of Russell, through Rutherford with the many splits of the Association, and right through the Jehovah's Witnesses, they have not had and do not have Almighty God's righteous standards. 

We all sin Mr Rando. But those who give themselves authority should be more careful before they deliberately sin. 

15 hours ago, BroRando said:

Patiently claims Jehovah only stated {{us}} in the same manner Satan implied Jehovah Lied by stating

However, Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like One of us in knowing good and bad. 

You are a fake Mr rando. And you serve the devil well. Twisting scripture will not go well for you. 

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

On 9/30/2021 at 2:42 PM, BroRando said:

garden including the tree of life to satisfaction.

I do not agree with this statement. 

Arauna I agree with you on this point.  Adam and Eve would not have been allowed to eat from the 'tree of life'. 

But so much of this topic seems distorted. It is my opinion that Mr Rando is not a JW and is slyly twisting scriptures to mislead people. 

I do note also that in Gen 3: 22  from the NWT 

Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad.

Whereas Gen 3: 22 from the Berean Study Bible

Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil.

Do you see the difference ? 

Us being in uppercase surely means Almighty God and the Son of God (Jesus).

On 9/30/2021 at 2:10 PM, JW Insider said:

(Matthew 24:36) 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

 

Some folks on here are soooo like the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW Org in pretending they know more than others. 

If a person says that Jesus DID know, then it would appear they are calling Jesus a liar. 

I keep coming back to the point that even if a person knew which year the scriptures work out to, that does not take into account the fact that the time will be 'cut short', and no one knows by how much it will be cut short. 

14 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Speaking for myself, I don't care what info my previous congregation has on me, so I'm still a bit perplexed on why these former elders want what type of information is in there?

Well if Elders can become pedophiles then Elders can become 'spies' too. Information kept as paper copy in a filing cabinet could easily be used against a person. And if such information is passed from one congregation to another when a congregant moves congregations. Then the 'file' on that person becomes a life history and might actually be a completely distorted history too. As the example I used about myself, because I left the JW Org of my own choice, but an Elder told my wife, on the phone, that i had been disfellowshipped. So what information is actually on my 'file' that they hold about me ?  Have they put on record that I was disfellowshipped ?  It matters because if they have, then they are saying that I sinned and was unrepentant. That would be a direct lie, and that matters to me. 

When an Elder can tell such a lie to my own wife, then it shows the capability of such ones. It shows how they will  deliberately discredit someone. If they will do that verbally, will they also put it in writing on a persons records ? 

As has been said here many times, Elders are not perfect.  So possibly their intentions are not perfect either.  If a person leaves the Org the Elders may become bitter towards them and deliberately write misleading comments on their file. 

https://news.sky.com/story/who-sex-abuse-allegations-agency-staff-members-carried-out-rapes-during-democratic-republic-of-the-congo-ebola-response-report-says-12420560

WHO sex abuse allegations: Agency staff members carried out rapes during Democratic Republic of the Congo Ebola response,The allegations, which include nine claims of rape, were said to have been perpetrated by 83 foreigners and nationals from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, including 21 WHO staff members.

Twenty-one World Health Organisation (WHO) staff members were allegedly involved in sexual abuse during the agency's response to the Ebola crisis in central Africa, according to an official report.

The allegations, which include nine of rape, were identified by a special panel commissioned by WHO to look into claims involving the UN's health agency in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC).

It found a total of 83 perpetrators were involved in alleged sex abuse during the two-year response period, including the 21, in what has been called the biggest scandal of sexual wrongdoing linked to a UN institution in years.

WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said the report produced by the panel made for "harrowing reading".

Apparently referring to the victims, he said: "I am sorry by what was done by people employed by the WHO to serve and protect you."

He said the findings would require "wholesale reforms of our structure and culture" and all known sex abuse perpetrators would be banned from working for the WHO in future, with four people already fired.

Western diplomatic sources who attended a closed-door briefing with WHO officials have said another two people have been placed on administrative leave.

News agencies AP and Thomson Reuters Foundation, which worked with the New Humanitarian, published separate allegations claiming that aid workers from WHO and leading charities misused their position during the 2018-2020 Ebola crisis in the country.

Among those accused was a WHO doctor and two other agency officials, who were said to have promised to buy land for a young woman who had got pregnant.

WHO chief Mr Tedros made 14 trips to the DRC during the outbreak period and publicly commended the work of at least one of those who was accused by AP.

Nearly 50 countries, including Britain, the US and Canada later issued a statement expressing their "deep concerns" about WHO's handling of sex abuse claims.

AP has since obtained recordings of meetings during which WHO emergencies chief Dr Michael Ryan acknowledged that the DRC sex abuse allegations were likely to be "the tip of an iceberg" and were part of a problem that "does reflect a culture as well".

A member of the Congolese Union of Media Women (UCOFEM), Julie Londo, applauded WHO for punishing staff members involved in the abuse allegations but said the agency needed to go further.

She said: "WHO must also think about reparation for the women who were traumatised by the rapes and the dozens of children who were born with unwanted pregnancies as a result of the rapes.

"There are a dozen girls in Butembo and Beni who had children with doctors during the Ebola epidemic, but today others are sent back by their families because they had children with foreigners...We will continue our fight to end these abuses."

WHO has faced criticism from a variety of sources in recent years, with the US cutting ties with it over its relationship with China, and from others over its failure to fully investigate the origins of and response to COVID-19.

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But CTR was continually overly exalted by others,

Probably totally off topic but have you said, or, has someone said here, that Russell thought that he was something like 'free from sin' or 'could not sin' because he had been specially chosen before he was even born ? 

Did Russell think that there was something extra special about himself ?  

I did try to research it with lots of different keywords, but found nothing. So is it all in my mind ? 

On 9/28/2021 at 11:14 AM, Pudgy said:

"Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine." is apparently a casualty of this conflict .... shot in the back from "Friendly Fire".

I don't understand who you are accusing of what here ??? 

Who was 'shot in the back from friendly fire' ?  And who did the shooting ?