13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

This is why in the other thread it was pointed out that some do not really fight CSA and have no idea of what is in this realm vs those who do fight against it.

If you start fighting against things in the world then where do you stop that fight ? 

The idea of the JW religion is to be 'No Part of the World'.  And the point of condemning the JW Org is because they pretend to be so different but are really just as bad as all the others.

And it seems that you also lack faith. In fact it is difficult to know what you believe really.  You seem to be involved in this world which Jesus said he was no part of. 

I was also thinking, How many overlapping generations will it need to get to 2055 ?  

18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The Charity Commission and the IICSA, it seems you focus on these things because that is what the media has been getting their information from.

I focus on them because they are the official channels, not just hearsay. I have also given information to the IICSA and had direct emails from them and from Police departments. Perhaps I'm slightly more involved than most people think, but I don't tend to spread it all over the internet. 

17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This would only confirm that WTJWorg's claims, that GB and the elders are guided by a holy spirit that should reveal all "satanic traps" to them, are empty. So, JW members are not (fully) equipped with “spiritual armor” from Ephesians 6, but equipped with many empty doctrines.

Yes Srecko, hence I truly believe that an organisation needs to be guided by True Anointed ones that are inspired by God's Holy Spirit through Christ. 

But JWs here don't believe in such things ever happening. They don't believe that God can have a clean organisation. 

JWs here have no true faith in God at all. Their faith is only in the things seen, such as the GB, Warwick and Ramapo. They have proven that they cannot handle spiritual matters. 

15 hours ago, Pudgy said:

How did you get the year 2055?

It makes no sense whatsoever. 

It is so obvious. Rambo is attention seeking. so he starts his 'doom and gloom' again but with a different year now. 

Reminds me of a song. "In the year 2525"

15 hours ago, BroRando said:

"Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and those who are sexually immoral and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices lying. (Rev 22:15) 

Um, actually half of them are still in the JW org.  And the Elders 'spiritually murder' people. 

All JWs worship the idol JW Org and the 8 men that lead it. 

Sexually immoral. Yes pedophile Elders and MS and some congregants too.  Adultery is common in English congregations. 

As for lying, the GB and their Lawyers are good at that.

So, get rid of all of them and how many people will be left  

16 hours ago, BroRando said:

The four state sanctioned religions in Russia toady are Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism.  All these religions are represented by idolatry and temples made by hands they can easily be destroyed.

And the Watchtower / JW Org has the idolatry of Warwick and Ramapo, which can easily be destroyed.

16 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I think the real question is, if a person of good heart decided he wanted to become one of Jehovah’s Witness, do you have to really believe all these superfluous things that are of no consequence in order to be baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

The truth is you have to kiss the butt of the Elders to be able to get baptised. The Elders rule over the congregations.

The congregation i was in when I wanted to get baptised, was ruled over by two Elders, a father and son.  The son decided that I wasn't ready, so his father agreed. They STOPPED me getting baptised. But I was humble then, I just said ok. Later when the son wanted me to get baptised i actually didn't want to. But once again I was humble, and I did as I was told, and got baptised. 

So I know first hand (from more than one experience) that the Elders have complete control over the congregants, and they love every minute of it. But of course they will be judged for it. 

17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

And this church of the JWs specifically fell into the Forgiveness of Sin Exploit mostly used by abusers

Forgiveness of Sin is one thing. But the Elders cannot 'forgive' breaking the law. It is outside of their 'authority' to do so. 

A person could be forgiven by God for Sin, but should still serve the prison sentence for the Crime. 

Sin is spiritual. Crime is physical. God allows those 'superior authorities' / governments / legal bodies, to be in place to deal with Crime. Why would any Christian not  want to serve God properly by hiding criminals.

17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The UK is known to have problems regarding CSA,

But I keep coming back to the point that here in the UK we have had two investigations. The Charity Commision and the IICSA. What are the authorities doing in the USA ? What investigations ? 

Mr Rook, you prove yourself to be mentally imbalanced so i suppoe I should forgive you, and of couse it would be the Christain thing to do. But here you are being a total coward, hiding behind the dog thing and deliberately trying to distract from the FACTS that the GB / Watchtower / JW org are WRONG in their actions on many counts. 

So getting back on track :-

16 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Please give me one real example, of that ever happening, here on the Archive.

Well i for one have learnt a lot in the time I've been on here. 

I've learnt how totally 'unChristian' some JWs can be. That includes the GB and their lawyers. (With proof from court cases)

I've learnt how people will deliberately twist the things i write.  I've learnt that some so called 'JW' people will deliberately tell lies about me to get me d/fed from this forum. 

And more importantly I've learnt some things about GB members past and present, and about things the Watchtower have put in writing. 

So extra knowledge has helped me to make a decision not to return to the JW Org. 

But you don't really want to know this. You just want to side track from the main point of this topic.

Can we talk sensibly about Disfellowshipping and shunning.

On 9/14/2021 at 12:41 PM, Pudgy said:

That is a LOT OF QUESTIONS.

why anyone would go through the trouble of answering them is beyond me…… Because nobody ever changes their mind here…… Ever.

 

But it's food for thought for JWs and non JWs. Sometimes people do not answer questions outwardly, but they do question themselves about things.  As for people changing their mind, how would you know ? Extra knowledge can sometimes make a difference. 

https://jw.support/disfellowshipping/    This is interesting reading. 

Lets start from those early Christians in the 1st century.  When did they become known as Christians ?  Was it whilst Jesus was still alive or was it after his resurrection ?

Who was it that called those early 'disciples' Christians ?  Did they call themselves by that name ? 

And now an important question. Did any human have the authority to tell another human, "You are no longer a Christian". 

Was being a 1st century Christian, being a part of a human Organisation ?  So was it possible to turn a person out from it ?  

Did a 1st century person need permission to preach the word of God ? 

At this point we should remember the account whereby the disciples complained to Jesus that some 'outsiders' were preaching and healing in the name of Christ. 

https://www.youngwitness.com.au/story/7424446/jehovahs-witnesses-join-redress-scheme/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-13/jehovah-witnesses-child-abuse-four-corners-investigations/100444320

Since the royal commission exposed the cruel treatment of victims of child abuse within the Jehovah’s Witnesses, little has changed. 

But in a landmark civil case, former member Amy Whitby is taking on the secretive religious group in court. 

Eight million Jehovah’s Witnesses around the globe believe that Armageddon is imminent, and the only path to survival is to follow the organisation’s strict rules.

A US-based Governing Body of eight men sits at the pinnacle of the Jehovah’s Witnesses organisation. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe these men are anointed as the voice of God on Earth.

All Witnesses are expected to obey instructions and doctrines that influence every aspect of life: Women are considered subservient to men, higher education is discouraged and homosexuality is not permitted.

Doomsday images from Jehovah's Witnesses publications. Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania

The organisation’s in-house production studio and publications pump out fear-driven content that keeps followers afraid that the end is coming and that they are being persecuted by the outside world.

Witnesses are also taught to distrust everyone outside the group.

Just another article about the Watchtower / JW Org, but it shows people's personal opinions. It's worth a read.

So how do JWs expect to teach people 'truth' whilst people have this image of them ? 

Oh dear another doom and gloom picture, to frighten people. It looks like something from a scary movie  

And oh dear again. BR in back on the 1914 horse, but I think that horse died long ago. 

And now 2034 is no longer THE year, but a beginning of something ? 

And the 120 years of Noah ? Guessing again by putting thoughts into scriptures that God never put there. 

BR, it seems you are a scare monger wanting attention for yourself. 

Shame I'll never know, as I will be long dead before 2034 .  

16 hours ago, Anna said:

They, the secular authorities, designate JW elders as having a clerical role as ministers (of religion). Therefore, under official circumstances, such as in a court of law, elders are viewed as "clergy"

I think you are a dreamer, but we've been down this road before and you will believe what you want to believe. 

If i remember rightly in one case, the Elders refused to testify against a fellow Elder, using that clergy privilege as the excuse.

Maybe Zalkin or the judge is being paid off by the GB and their Lawyers. 

But tell me please.

Australia had the Australian Royal Commission 

Here in the UK we have had the Charity Commission and the IICSA.

The Netherlands had an investigation and report. 

So what is America doing ? Where is the investigation in the USA ?

Canada, was trying to have a massive million dollar law suit, but I think it wasn't allowed. So what is Canada now doing ?

Seems strange that the Watchtower / JW Org isn't being investigated in it's 'home land'. 

( @Witness mentioned something about the Org making payment to a politician some time back )

The GB will do anything to keep their authority and power.  I think they are paying off someone in America to stop an investigation from happening. 

But of course if you know different. If you know of an investigation into religion in the USA ??? 

17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Now, three years later, an appeals court has eroded her courtroom victory even further by ruling that the leadership of the Jehovah’s Witnesses had no duty to warn congregants that a confessed child molester was one of their own.

So, 'appeals court'. That means that the GB and / or their Lawyers do not want justice to be done. They do not want to follow Christ's footsteps in showing mercy.  They do not want to 'go the extra mile'. The GB.

And this 'American' law, encouraging Pedophilia. This case proves that the congregation Elders knew that the man was a Pedophile, but they did NOT warn the congregation. 

Any JW that can live with this obviously has no Christian conscience.  We are back to 'Collateral Damage',  and all for the sake of the idol, the JW Org and it's GB 

14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Or, people in WTJWorg have years of training how to move mountain?

Well the Watchtower Leaders have been trying to move Armageddon since the late 1800's but it hasn't worked. 

On 9/8/2021 at 9:59 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

They’re not gnostic. They have no special secret source of knowledge. However, the Bible itself speaks to them in a way in does not speak to most. That’s not gnostic, but it leans a little that way.

Ha Ha   You got the first bit right for sure. BUT neither God/Christ nor the Bible 'speaks' to the GB in a special way.

They have proven that by their many 'mistakes' and false promises. Come on Tom admit it. The GB have nothing except a lot of puffed up pride and self serving bragging. They even stand on top of the Anointed ones and tell those Anointed ones not to meet together. 

Does the Bible tell your GB to order the Body of Christ not to be as one ? Hypocrisy  

On 9/8/2021 at 8:32 AM, Space Merchant said:

Child abuse is also more prominent among the US and the UK, however, more of a problem in the UK as statistics show, even older data. Some abusers even avoiding being added to the registry.

You do love to aim it at the UK, But I do wonder if some places like India, Pakistan and surrounding areas, and Africa, have a much deeper problem with CSA that is not known about worldwide. 

Statistics can only show what is already known. There must be far more going on that is not known. 

We have some idea how women are treated in some of those countries, so why would they be nicer to children ? 

On 9/8/2021 at 8:32 AM, Space Merchant said:

In the JW case it has been somewhat reduced because none of them went back to their churches.

I don't know what this is supposed to mean as some Elders were allowed to continue for years in their position even though it was known that they were pedophiles. And some that were d/fed were then allowed back into the congregations. And how many more are still hiding in the JW org. 

What has happened to that massive 25 + years American Pedophile Database that the GB keep hidden and will not hand over to authorities ? The Australian records went back for 50 years. That was made clear at the ARC. BUT the GB say they only have 25 years of records. Why ? As the W/t / JW Org started in America they should have records of over 50 years. So what are the GB hiding ? And why would you be on their side ? 

16 hours ago, Pudgy said:

...sez the faceless Pwft, who seems to disparage the possibility in others, whoever they might be,  the fact that he himself is hiding behind an alias .... without a face.

But you know who I am and I'm not hiding. What I did was necessary due to my being d/fed from here previously by over zealous Elders and a lying JW it seems.  People twisting my words and pretending that I was making threats. 

16 hours ago, Pudgy said:

When you can be irritated by a cartoon dog, because he does not discuss "spiritual matters" in a manner to your liking ... who is it that really needs a shrink?

I'm not irritated by a cartoon dog, I'm disappointed in the lack of spiritual conversation. 

I hope your chickens are keeping well  

23 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I cannot think of a snappy retort to your "How much are the GB paying you?", without "spilling the beans".

Never mind James. Continue to hide behind the dog. It's cheaper than paying a shrink. 

On 9/6/2021 at 5:48 AM, ApostaBabe Linda James said:

Thank you for letting me kow this. I had no idea that this was happening.

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On 9/6/2021 at 10:35 AM, Pudgy said:

I’m trying to make people believe I am really a dog.

No, you're hiding behind the stupid dog thing with the intention of diverting serious conversation away from spiritual matters. How much are the GB paying you ?