Patiently waiting for Truth

On 8/21/2021 at 12:48 PM, Pudgy said:

After briefly scanning all of the above, I have one question. 
What is a MSC?

Possibly Main Stream Christianity = Catholic / Protestant. 

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” (Acts 1:6)

Please note the question mark at the end of the sentence. Do you know what it means ?

It means that the sentence was a QUESTION. It was not a statement. It was not a teaching. Not a doctrine. 

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“While they were listening to these things he spoke in addition an illustration, because he was near Jerusalem and they were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly. (Luke 19:11)

Imagining that. BUT Not teaching it as fact. 

The Watchtower / GB teach things as facts by pretending that they are the F&DS. 

You deliberately want to hide yourself from the difference. So you basically misuse scripture which in turn loses you credibility. 

You need to think on this. The 'missteps' (lies) of your GB / Watchtower / Org, are condemning people to death.

 Luke 17 : 1 & 2 

Berean Study Bible
Jesus said to His disciples, “It is inevitable that stumbling blocks will come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck and to be thrown into the sea than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. 

Doom and gloom once again, Billy the Kid.

I would think the only ones that could grieve the Holy Spirit are those that have received the Holy Spirit. That is the Anointed ones. 

Unless of course you have been sent to judge us Rambo.  

And to think that the Watchtower / GB / JW Org, continue all this right up to this very day !

I don't pretend to understand any of it, but as an 'outsider' it looks to be part of Babylon and part of 'the world'.

But then maybe the JW Org IS part of both. 

22 hours ago, JW Insider said:

They were picking dates just so that the end date (by adding 1260, for example) would land in their own generation.

I love this. Reminds me of Rando  

19 hours ago, Pudgy said:

The fact that you’ve actually made this prediction is prima facie evidence that you’re a false prophet.

it’s a natural temptation, that few can resist. 

And xero in his new topic said this

...we implicitly act as if this isn't true, boldly concluding things Jehovah's going to do or not do and even the manner of his doing or not doing.

We can't let it go.

Um, two minds with a single thought, or, an AKA ?  

Can someone explain to me, to whom would it have been advantageous to insert that piece of writing ?

'Religions' have always been about control. That piece of writing was concerning forgiveness. Therefore whoever wanted that piece of writing included, wanted forgiveness of sins, as opposed to punishment (by death). 

Matthew 9 : 13  The words of Jesus 

Berean Study Bible
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

I am not fighting this battle as to whether it should or should not be included. I am just giving proof that from the time of Jesus Christ living here on this Earth, things changed drastically. They changed from punishment of death, to, mercy and forgiveness shown by God through Jesus Christ. I do agree with Tom, that forgiveness is only possible if the person is repentant. 

A couple of points here. firstly 

13 hours ago, xero said:

Then Job said in reply to Jehovah:

 2 “Now I know that you are able to do all things

And that nothing you have in mind to do is impossible for you.+

I've have said this many times before on this forum. With God all things are possible.

secondly.

14 hours ago, xero said:

..we implicitly act as if this isn't true, boldly concluding things Jehovah's going to do or not do and even the manner of his doing or not doing.

Hence my name I use now on this forum. Patiently waiting for truth. And I get mocked for it. 

But when you say WE, would you be kind enough to say exactly who the 'we' are ?

Are you referring to individuals or the Watchtower Soc' / JW Org / GB ? 

22 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Where is your evidence I was off topic concerning The book of Revelations?

Simply because the topic was not mainly about Revelation. The topic was about the Watchtower admitting that they got interpretation wrong, therefore they admitted misusing scripture.  In the Watchtower quote that I used about the locusts I cannot see any mention of the Angel of the Abyss. Um, maybe you should be a Watchtower writer, you see to know more than they do. 

SM, you have great knowledge of scripture and other things. This is your topic here, enjoy it.  

15 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I didn't go off topic

You were totally off topic, because the TOPIC was about the misuse of scriptures by the Watchtower... 

And the GB / Watchtower admitted they were wrong.  Truther ? You can't even tell the truth here. I would think you are a laughing stock amongst real Truthers. 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Granted this was talked about for sometime now, everything mentioned is brief, for the other thread was locked due to question dodging.

The other thread was locked because you were off topic and just trying to get attention for yourself  

I stand corrected on the Matthew scripture, which should be Matthew 27 : 40 

15 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I believe he said to keep it Bible Scripture Only, you constantly bring up JW

And yet you have quoted yourself as comparing the KJV with the NWT 

15 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

In the Bible of the Jehovah's Witnesses, they to stuck to the original source, as did the others mentioned above, giving references to said verse also.

If you stick to Bible Scripture Only, surely you have to use a Bible.  If it's a BIBLE based activity, then I've quoted scriptures from the bible. 

On 8/15/2021 at 4:37 PM, Equivocation said:

, be it added or removed, whatever.

And i asked questions about words added. 

What I didn't do however was to be tricked into using the scriptures sited. 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/kingdom-interlinear-greek-translation/books/

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/

I am using the 1985 version of this Interlinear Greek translation by Watchtower, and I'm wondering if there is an updated version or a better version I could be using.  I have hard copy of this, but also I found one on the JW Org website but it didn't have a date of publication, so i don't know if it's a newer one. 

Also is there a Watchtower approved translation of the Hebrew scriptures ?

A couple of points though.

As you will know I believe the scriptures are for the 'true' Anointed and that when Jesus is ready (Jesus has all authority) He will provide Holy Spirit to those of the remnant to guide God's people to truth. 

Secondly, the words of Jesus recorded Matthew 11 : 25

Berean Study Bible
At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

My thinking runs in line with this scripture above. That God reveals the meaning of scripture to whom HE chooses, and that Jesus now does the same. 

Hence with all the deep discussion on this forum and those on here that consider themselves wise and learned, I tend to think that no matter how much research one does, and how much one studies languages ect, only God through Christ will give true knowledge. 

However that does not mean i should be lazy or not study God's word. What it means to me is that I should not expect to understand too much or too deeply. 

Hence, back to the point, Interlinear Translations that can be trusted ????? And the most up to date ? 

All information welcome, thank you. 

Oh and to confess, I still haven't learnt to use Strong's properly yet, but I keep trying.  

@Jack Ryan I'm sorry we've all stolen your topic and drastically changed it's direction. 

I get disappointed when it happens to my topics. 

There are no JWs or 'carts' around my area of England, and I haven't had a letter through my door.  

None of my local neighbours have mentioned letters either, but some nearby towns are complaining about them. 

You are definitely following in the Storm Trooper's footsteps. Please do not get like SM, just giving orders to people.

It's not about WW3, it's about people being allowed to have their own opinion. 

NWT.     Matthew 27 : 4

and saying: “You who would throw down the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! If you are a son of God, come down off the torture stake!”

The word TORTURE, is it an addition to this scripture ?  

NWT  John 1 : 1

 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

The word a, is it an addition to this scripture ? 

I'm not disputing the meaning behind the additions. I'm asking from the BIBLE SCRIPTURE ONLY viewpoint. 

In the JW, Kingdom Interlinear Translations, it shows them to be additions. 

@Srecko Sostar That is a really great explanation and yes, it proves the dangers of that type of 'teaching'.

We know that people like to have their ears 'tickled', and it seems the GB have found a way of tickling people's ears.

In fact it seems a very dangerous way forward. The idea of moving away from God's written word. Replacing God's word with play acting. We know that the GB speak falsely when they give talks. How much more will these plays be false. 

Concerning both the Locusts and the Superior Authorities, the Watchtower Leaders confessed that they HAD BEEN WRONG.  Therefore they proved they had misused scripture. 

Everything mentioned in my original post at top of page, has a link or information for reference. 

Anything else mentioned on this topic is just trolling. 

Once again the Storm Trooper demads answers  He asked a question and I gave him an answer.

But note that I told him 'That's all ya gettin'.  One jump ahead, because I knew he would demand more  .

Unfortunately I think SM is now being a Troll, deliberately trying to throw things off topic. 

ABADDON

(A·badʹdon) [from Heb., meaning “Destruction”].

At Revelation 9:11 this Hebrew word is transliterated into the English text. There we read concerning the symbolic plague of locusts that they have “a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” 

That's all ya gettin'.  

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Pharisees used lies in the face of the Christ, but, the trick question was to root out a reasoning. So you linking that to the Pharisees was false, and it shows willful error

Wrong. The Pharisees used scripture and facts to ask their questions. That shows you don't know as much as you pretend to know. 

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The Locust thing was talked about years ago.

The information i have given was only available in April 2020 Study Watchtower.  I have given a link to the source. 

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

It was a trick question,

Which was why I likened you to the Pharisees. They tried exactly the same with Jesus. 

Unfortunately it seems there is a young JW here that is being misguided by a man that 'thinks' he knows truth.

Can we please set matters straight about the wrong use of scripture. 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-april-2020/An-Attack-Coming-From-the-North/

² As those Bible students soon found out, however, it can be one thing to learn what the Bible teaches about a certain doctrinal subject but quite another to discern correctly the meaning of a Bible prophecy. Why is that so? For one thing, Bible prophecies are often best understood when they are undergoing fulfillment or after they have been fulfilled. But there is another factor. To understand a prophecy correctly, we generally have to consider its context. If we focus on only one aspect of the prophecy and ignore the rest, we may draw the wrong conclusion. In hindsight, it seems that this has been the case with a prophecy in the book of Joel. Let us review that prophecy and discuss why an adjustment in our present understanding is needed.

 For many years, we have applied that prophecy symbolically to the way in which Jehovah’s people, like an unstoppable swarm of locusts, engage in their preaching activity. We understood that this activity has devastating effects on the “land,” or the people who are under the control of the religious leaders.

However, when we consider the prophecy in its context, we see that a different understanding is appropriate. Let us examine four reasons why this is so.

⁵ First of all, notice Jehovah’s promise with regard to the plague of locusts: “I will drive the northerner [the locusts] far away from you.” (Joel 2:20) If the locusts represent Jehovah’s Witnesses as they obey Jesus’ command to preach and make disciples, why would Jehovah promise to drive them away? (Ezek. 33:7-9; Matt. 28:19, 20) Clearly, Jehovah is driving away, not his faithful servants, but something or someone who is hostile to his people.

Notice that Jehovah promises to “make compensation” for the damage the locusts have caused. If the locusts picture Kingdom evangelizers, this would suggest that the message they proclaim causes damage.

Did you notice that Jehovah says: “After that I will pour out my spirit”; that is, after the locusts have completed their assigned task? If the locusts are preachers of God’s Kingdom, why would Jehovah pour out his spirit on them after they finish their witnessing? 

We previously connected the plague of locusts described by Joel with our preaching work because of a similar prophecy found in the book of Revelation. 

Admittedly, there are similarities between the prophecy in Revelation and the one Joel recorded. However, there are significant differences. Consider: In Joel’s prophecy, the locusts devastate the vegetation. (Joel 1:4, 6, 7) In John’s vision, the locusts are “told not to harm the vegetation of the earth.” (Rev. 9:4) The locusts Joel saw came from the north. (Joel 2:20) Those John saw came out of an abyss. (Rev. 9:2, 3) The locusts Joel described are driven away. In Revelation, the locusts are not driven away but are allowed to finish their work. There is no indication that they deserve Jehovah’s disapproval. 

The significant differences between the two prophecies lead us to conclude that they are not connected.

¹⁷ What has changed? We now have a more accurate understanding of the prophecy found at Joel 2:7-9. Simply put, these verses refer, not to our zealous preaching work, but to the activity of the Babylonian army that invaded Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.

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The Watchtower / JW Org / GB, here admitted that what they had been teaching was FALSE.

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Romans / Superior Authorities scripture was also falsely used by the Org between 1929 to 1962.

Until 1929, the “superior authorities” or “higher powers” were correctly said by Watchtower to be the earthly rulers to whom Christians paid taxes and whose laws they were obligated to follow.

“They taught the Church to obey the laws, and to respect those in authority because of their office, even if they were not personally worthy of esteem; to pay their appointed taxes, and, except where they conflicted with God’s laws (Acts 4:19; 5:29), to offer no resistance to any established law. (Rom. 13:1-7; Matt. 22:21)” Studies In the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages p.266

With one of Rutherford’s revelations, this changed in 1929.

“The instruction of the thirteenth chapter of Romans has long been misapplied. The improper application has really been the basis for the false doctrine of the “divine right of kings” or rulers to rule and oppress the people. The apostle is, in substance, telling the members of the church that they should always be obedient to God, and that the motive for such obedience must be love for God and a delight in doing’ his will.” Watchtower 1929 Jun 1 p.163

“Both of these scriptures have reference to the government, order and discipline in the organization of the Lord. Applying these words to earthly governments has been misleading and wrongful so far as Christians are concerned.” Watchtower 1929 Jun 15 p.183

From 1929 to 1962, the Superior Authorities became “the Most High God Jehovah and his exalted Son Jesus Christ.” (This Means Everlasting Life (1950) p.197)

In 1962, the Society returned to the original position of Russell. A statement in Babylon the Great Has Fallen! God’s Kingdom Rules! page 548 indicated there was a change in understanding;

“In spite of the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, God permitted the political authorities of this world to continue as the ‘higher powers’ or the ‘powers that be,’ which are ‘ordained of God’.”

This was explained in detail through the November 1, November 15 and December 1 editions of the Watchtower in 1962.

How does Watchtower justify the change back to the original position? It does not have to, as it rewrites its history to avoid such embarrassment. In an article titled ‘The Christian’s View of the Superior Authorities’ it avoids mentioning that in 1962 the doctrine reverted back to an earlier version.

“For some years, until 1962, Jehovah’s Witnesses held that the superior authorities were Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. However, in line with Proverbs 4:18, light increased, and this view was adjusted.” Watchtower 1990 Nov 1 p.11

Proclaimers presents a stunning portrayal of this part of history, included ironically under the heading ‘The Light Shines More and More.’ It explains that the doctrinal change on Romans 13 is an example of “the light getting brighter”, completely avoiding any mention that this new light was a return to an original belief.

For example, in 1962 there was an adjustment of understanding regarding “the superior authorities” of Romans 13:1-7.

For many years the Bible Students had taught that “the higher powers” (KJ) were Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. Why? In The Watch Towers of June 1 and June 15, 1929, a variety of secular laws were cited, and it was shown that what was permitted in one land was forbidden in another. Attention was also drawn to secular laws that required people to do what God prohibited or that forbade what God commanded his servants to do. Because of their earnest desire to show respect for the supreme authority of God, it seemed to the Bible Students that “the higher powers” must be Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. They still obeyed secular laws, but the emphasis was on obedience to God first. That was an important lesson, one that fortified them during the years of world turmoil that followed. But they did not clearly understand what Romans 13:1-7 was saying.

Years later, a careful reanalysis of the scripture was made, along with its context and its meaning in the light of all the rest of the Bible. As a result, in 1962 it was acknowledged that “the superior authorities” are the secular rulers, but with the help of the New World Translation, the principle of relative subjection was clearly discerned. This did not call for any major change in the attitude of Jehovah’s Witnesses toward the governments of the world, but it did correct their understanding of an important portion of the Scriptures. In the process, there was opportunity for the Witnesses individually to consider carefully whether they were truly living up to their responsibilities toward both God and the secular authorities. This clear understanding of “the superior authorities” has served as a protection to Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially in those lands where surges of nationalism and clamoring for greater freedom have resulted in outbreaks of violence and the formation of new governments.” Jehovah’s Witnesses-Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom pp.146-147

ANOTHER CONFESSION OF FALSE TEACHINGS.

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OK, it was boring. But it is sad to read when young JWs do not understand the truth about the Org they are part of. And it's made worse whena another man pretends he knows more that he actually does. 

22 hours ago, Equivocation said:

He didn't save an adulterous woman because the passage was never canon

My point was that Jesus could have done so. I never said Jesus did so in that scripture. 

But i see you are treating this all as a game. Trying to score points for SM.  So be it. 

Yes this forum is probably a game, but serving God through Christ is not a game. 

14 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Anyways, my question to you see, do you believe Jesus really saved an adulterous woman, even though it was never recorded in the earliest available mss sources we have come to know?

There are two points here. ( although I never use that 'scripture' as I'm not sure eather way but )

1. Jesus allowed an immoral woman to wash His feet with her tears, then wipre His feet with her hair, then she anointed His feet with oil. Then Jesus said to her "Your sins are forgiven you "  

2.  The Jewish way of life, The Law, demanded death.  However the New way, through Christ, demanded mercy and forgiveness. Jesus and the disciples never punished anyone by killing them. 

So Jesus could have saved an adulterous woman. 

13 hours ago, Equivocation said:

I read both, but I don't see as to what was taken out of context

From 1929 to 1962 the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW org took control of the consciences of the congregation members.

They used the excuse that being the leaders of the org, God had given those leaders control over people. 

In WW2 JWs could have done other work in the comunity but the Watchtower Leaders told the JWs they had to go to prison and not do any work at all.  Sorry that is just a quick explanation, back later.