Patiently waiting for Truth

From 1929 to 1962 the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW org took control of the consciences of the congregation members. They used the excuse that being the leaders of the org, God had given those leaders control over people. In WW2 JWs could have done other work in the comunity but the Watchtower Leaders told the JWs they had to go to prison and not do any work at all. Sorry that is just a quick explanation, back later.

I'm sure you have made a Storm Trooper very happy today but you don't seem to understand that from my viewpoint I didn't need to answer his questions. SM was also pushing me to answer questons about homosexuality and immorality. He was getting very domineering about it all..... Now if I had suffered from anxiety or depression i would have been very upset by SM's continuous pushing of questions. I don't think he knows how much harm he could do. But I was laughing at SM because i could not tkae him seriously. You seem to take SM very seriously. That is your choice.

The JW Org took that scripture out of context from 1929 until 1962. The proof of it was shown in my comment.

John Butler was removed and BANNED from this forum. He wa not able to return as john Butler because he was blocked completely. His name and his email were both blocked. He was never given a fair hearing, he was just disfellowshipped from this forum. That is how he knows this forum is run by JW Elders. Why else would he have been unfairly removed ? So, John Butler had to return under a different name, not by choice. And he had to refuse to say if he was john Butler under fear that he would be removed again. So, it was not John butler's choice and not his fault, it was the Elders that run this forum that were totally unfair. Now you decide if i am John Butler, for your own satisfaction.

But probably one of the BIGGEST misuse of scripture (or lies) by the BIBLE STUDENTS & GB / JW Org has to be, THIS GENERATION https://avoidjw.org/en/news/this-generation/ Since the late 1800s Jehovah’s Witnesses, or Bible Students as they were known back then, have attempted many times to define and interpret ‘This Generation” mentioned in Jesus’ prophecy at Matthew 24:34. Looking at the evidence, one would have to admit that they have become a false prophet in modern times. Matthew 7:15. They have chosen various dates and amended them numerous times using the same logic to justify the alterations. The question that needs to be asked of every reader is this: If you can use the same scriptures to present your logic for contradicting theologies, are you not being deceitful and blasphemous? (Mark 7:15, 22) Indeed if you present a biblical idea as fact and it proves false, are you not a liar? – John 8:44. Changes to “This Generation” 1875:”This Generation” began April 6th 1875. (The Midnight Cry and Herald of the Morning – see pp. 71-72 of linked file) 1878: “This Generation” began in 1878. (Herald of the Morning, 1878, July p. 5) 1879: “This Generation” began in 1840, would last 74 years and would end in 1914. (Herald of the Morning, 1879, January p.3) 1882: “This Generation” refers to Christ being present “before the regeneration” and began in the spring of 1878. (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1882, April p. 6; May p. 5) 1908: “This Generation” will end by October 1914. (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1908 January p.3) 1909: “This Generation” began in 1878 and will terminate in 1914. (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1909 February 15 p.57) 1909: “This Generation” may not end in 1914 but the “Gentile Times” will conclude in October 1914. (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1909 December 1 pp. 371-372; Zion’s Watchtower, 1912 July 15 pp. 221-223) 1912: “This Generation” may not end in 1914 but we still believe that the time could not be very far distant. (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1912 October 15 p. 327) 1916: Admission that 1874, 1878 and 1881 were chronological mistakes upon which they apportion blame to the Lord. However October 1 1914 is unmistakably the end of the Gentile Times. (Zion’s Watch Tower 1916 February 1 p. 38) 1950: ‘This Generation” began in 1914 and applied to the 20th century generation of people. (The Watchtower Sep 15 1950 p. 324) 1952: “This Generation” began in 1914, included overlapping generations of individuals, each generation spanning some 33 years each, and would end with Armageddon happening before some of those living in 1914 had died. (The Watchtower Sep 1 1952 pp. 542-543; Feb 15 1953 p.124 para. 35) 1953: “This Generation” has only a few years remaining. (The Watchtower Oct 15 1953 pp. 615-616) Italics added for emphasis. 1956: Jesus said that the generation that saw 1914 “will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (The Watchtower Oct 15 1956 pp. 615-616) Italics added for emphasis. 1959: The world events since World War I of 1914-1918 have fulfilled those prophecies. The time has finally come for Jehovah God to clean up the earth and to bring permanent peace to man. The generation living in 1914 will see it.“ (The Watchtower Sep 1 1959 p. 519) Italics added for emphasis. 1961: “This generation” that is still alive from A.D. 1914 is the generation Jesus said would see “all things occur,” including this world’s end. Deliverance for Jesus’ true followers into God’s new world is due within this generation!” (The Watchtower Mar 1 1961 p. 132) Italics added for emphasis. 1995: “This Generation” refers to both an unbelieving generation of Jews in the first century and to a wicked generation of people in modern times. Furthermore, the length of a “generation” is unimportant. Jehovah’s Witnesses must still consider Armageddon as being imminent and must remain “keeping separate from the evil contemporary generation and zealously doing God’s will.” (The Watchtower Nov 1 1995 pp. 10-21) 2008: “This Generation” refers to both the apostles in the first century and to anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses in modern times. The length of a “generation” remains unimportant. Jehovah’s Witnesses revised understanding “helps to intensify … feelings of urgency.” (The Watchtower Feb 15 2008 pp. 21-25). 2010: “This Generation” continues to refer to both the apostles in the first century and to anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses in modern times. However, although acknowledging that they cannot measure the exact length of “this generation”, its length has become important once again: its modern length would begin with the generation of anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses who witnessed events in 1914 and would overlap with anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses who would see the start of the Great Tribulation. (The Watchtower Apr 15 2010 pp. 10-11 para. 13-14; Jan 15 2014 pp. 30-13 para. 14-16 ) “This Generation” is core to Jehovah’s Witnesses’ doctrine. Additionally, “The Faithful & Discreet Slave” is core to their doctrine. However, these very doctrines constantly change. If the understanding of these doctrines are “gifts” from Jehovah, why do they change? – James 1:16-18.

Thanks, I found the same on reddit: “The locusts of Joel Chapter 2 no longer refer to Jehovah's Witnesses and events surrounding 1919. The locusts in Revelation chapter 22 however still do refer to the anointed, but are now no longer connected with the prophecy on Joel. Joel 2 now refers to the "Babylonians", the coalition of nations that will try to destroy God's people. The context of Joel chapter 2 points the time period of fulfilment to Jehovah's Day in the Great Tribulation and how God will save his people.” JWs, see “Live with Jehovah’s Day in Mind” (pg 172,173; par 12, 2006), which refers to that day’s present “truth”, concerning Revelation and Joel’s locusts defined as “God’s people”. How is it, that the organization’s leaders just recently realize that the locusts in the book of Joel are out to destroy God’s people? Joel 2:25,27-32 Locusts have never been portrayed as a good thing in the scriptures. In Revelation, why would God consider His own people as a devastating plague?

But of course it was ok for the Watchtower / JW org / GB to misuse the scripture at Romans 13 https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/superior-authorities.php The understanding of the “Superior Authorities” of Romans 13:1 is a teaching where Watchtower doctrine has see-sawed back and forth in clear violation of the principle of the light getting brighter. Up to 1929 1929 to 1962 1962 onwards “Evil as these Gentile governments have been, they were permitted or “ordained of God” for a wise purpose. (Rom. 13:1)” Studies In the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages p.250 “The Superior Authorities are the Most High God Jehovah and his exalted Son Jesus Christ.” This Means Everlasting Life (1950) p.197 “The Expression “superior authorities” means the political governments or authorities.” Life everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God (1966) p.189 Romans 13:1-2 is simple to understand, describing the Christian obligation to follow the laws of the country. This is how it is interpreted by most Christian religions and how Russell explained the Scripture. Then we have the Locusts. (Copied from a quote by @Witness back 2019 ) “The locusts of Joel Chapter 2 no longer refer to Jehovah's Witnesses and events surrounding 1919. The locusts in Revelation chapter 22 however still do refer to the anointed, but are now no longer connected with the prophecy on Joel. Joel 2 now refers to the "Babylonians", the coalition of nations that will try to destroy God's people. The context of Joel chapter 2 points the time period of fulfilment to Jehovah's Day in the Great Tribulation and how God will save his people.” That is just two examples of MISUSE of scripture (or lies) from the Watchtower / JW Org / GB / Leaders. So, if you condemn other religions for misuse of scripture, why do you not also condemn JWs ? The misuse of scripture by church or organisation leaders is a stumbling block to others. Luke 17 : 1&2.

It's good to know that all of us on here that are trying to be Christians in line with God's word through Jesus Christ, including myself, will all forgive each other the '77 times' each day. 10.45pm here in England. Warmest Christian love to all. Goodnight.

Twisting my words yet again. Where did I call Truthers liars ? Where did I call Jewish leaders liars ? Yes I will close this topic also, because you SM just want to stir up trouble for no reason. THIS TOPIC WAS ABOUT HOW THE WORDS TRUTH AND TRUE LOST THEIR MEANING BECAUSE THEY ARE OVER USED

Like I've said I take all this as a joke. I also cannot take you seriously since you've started using memes. And for you to spend so much time trying to 'prove' who I am, when you could have spent your time on more serious matters.... As an Ex-JW I am one individual, but once again you seem to need to lump people together. And as for what your 'friends' on other forums say, should I even care ? It is your own fault and the fault of those others you mention, if you need to lump all Ex-JWs as being one. But, it's clear that you only do it to suit your own agenda. Quote "Mic dropped", only in your dreams .

But then you continue. You can't even tell the truth about that I think that your line of thought could be, that if you could prove that I am John Butler then you could get me removed from this forum. Otherwise why would an intelligent man worry himself about who i am ?

Yes funny that you take this one line out of context. WHEREAS you would use other quotes in context. You certainly seem to have JW training. I'm sure that 'quote' above also said "If you think I am John Butler, then I am"

Space Merchant wants 'free advertising'. He wants me to do 'research' to advertise his 'community'. I'm not falling for it. He has called himself a Truther for so long, it is obvious that he has wanted people to ask him what they are. Maybe @Space Merchant should make a new topic where he can advertise his 'community'.

Man to man, stop hiding behind a mask. a Space Merchant, a Storm Trooper, a Truther. You are a person just as I am. Stop pretending that you make the rules, because you don't. You say we are in Debate. I say I'm not interested in your 'debate'. In fact you act like a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. you give orders and your expect people to obey. You've tried in on with @Srecko Sostar and with @Witness and with me. BUT, you only have 'power' IF people allow you to have such power. And I do not allow you to have that power over me.

I have no interest in YOUR rules or terms. They mean nothing to me. As for a name, you can call me anything you wish. Tom usually does. When John Butler was drastically removed from this forum, he could not return as John Butler. He had to return as someone else. NOT HIS CHOICE. BUT you said I denied being John Butler, so prove it Truther.

I am not seriously interested in your terms. But do tell me what 'accusations' I have made against 'a community'

Are you going to support this with facts ? Because he never said he wasn't. He said he would leave it to others to decide. But then you misquoted me before so I don't expect any different. Example : I said A Truther without a heart. You misquoted ; Truthers without a heart. Do you actually know the difference between singular and plural ? The difference between talking about ONE person, not talking about a GROUP of people. I do wonder what lies you've told about me on your 'Truther community'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-58195419 Six people, including a suspected gunman, have died in a shooting in Plymouth. Devon and Cornwall Police said three females, two males and the suspect had died in the Keyham area of the city on Thursday evening. One of the dead was a child under 10, according to an MP, but the shooting is not terror-related, police confirmed. The death toll means it is the worst mass shooting in the UK for more than a decade. Emergency services were called to Biddick Drive shortly after 18:00 BST on Thursday. People were told to stay inside and follow police advice as the emergency response developed. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/13/plymouth-shooting-suspect-what-we-know-jake-davison Jake Davison, the suspected Plymouth attacker, portrayed himself as a man in despair who raged against the success of others and his own failure to find a girlfriend and lose weight. In what the 22-year-old described as an “unscripted rant” posted just over two weeks ago, he said “for the most part it’s just been me against the world”. In two videos posted late last month he comes across as a man struggling with his mental health and full of loathing for himself and others. In the most recent, he says: “It’s just been me fighting an uphill battle with a big f---ing rock on my back, seeing motherf---ers that don’t deserve half of anything now. They’re getting a free ride to the top.” He compared life to a Terminator movie where “everything is rigged against you – there’s no hope for humanity”. Davison twice likened himself to an “incel” – a member of a group of men who define themselves as unable to find romantic love, and express online hostility and resentment towards those who are sexually active, particularly women. And he complained that he lacked friends and a support network. “Maybe the business owner might go bankrupt twice … but guess what he had a wife and kids to support him. Does incel or virgin get that? No. Imagine failing at everything in life and having absolutely no support whatsoever.” https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19511398.plymouth-killer-jake-davison-incel-blackpill-meaning/ Plymouth killer Jake Davison: What is an 'incel' and blackpill meaning? A gunman who killed five people in Plymouth before pulling the trigger on himself in the UK's worst mass shooting since 2012 has been named locally as Jake Davison. The suspected killer, whose victims included a child under 10, was a self proclaimed 'incel' according to videos posted on his YouTube channel. In the videos, the 23-year-old apprentice crane operator claimed to be "defeated by life", blaming his problems on his lack of girlfriend. He also makes references to being an "incel" on the channel as well as the "black pill" philosophy subscribed to by the subculture. An incel is an abbreviation for "involuntary celibate" which is an online subculture group of people who state they are unable to find a romantic partner despite desiring one. Online incel forums are often underlined by discussions of resentment and hatred, mysogyny, misanthropy (contempt for the human species), and racism. They also frequently include endorsements of violence against women, with incel culture having been described as "part of the online male supremacist ecosystem". There have been numerous cases in which mass murderers have claimed to be part of incel culture, with violence linked to the subculture resulting in the deaths of up to 50 people in the US and Canada. Examples include Elliott Rodger, who killed six people in America after publishing a 141-page document detailing his intense hatred of women. The killer inspired others in the incel community: in 2018, Alek Minassian posted on Facebook: "The Incel Rebellion has already begun… All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!" He then proceeded to kill ten people by driving a van into a crowded street in Toronto. What is the 'blackpill' philosophy? The black pill philosophy refers to a set of commonly held beliefs among the incel community, which has been described as a "profoundly sexist ideology" that "amounts to a fundamental rejection of women's sexual emancipation, labeling women shallow, cruel creatures who will choose only the most attractive men if given the choice". The belief also subscribes to the idea that success with the opposite sex is determined by genetics at birth. People who to have "taken the black pill" believe they are a hopeless case who will never have any success romantically or sexually. Suspected Plymouth shooter Jake Davison claimed he had been "consuming a black pill overdose" in an online comment.

Actually it was I that took up the challenge because you made a point of saying that I should start a new topic. Well I started a new topic ! BUT once again you miss the whole point of it. It's not that you are 'blind' to what i write. But I can read in your words that you deliberately twist things. This is not only with me. You do it to @Witness and you do it to @Srecko Sostar . Now my point about people giving themselves or their Organistion a 'title' relating to the word Truth. Anyone can use that word Truth. Tom Harley calls himself @TrueTomHarley You call your self a Truther The JWs say they are in the 'truth'. The word TRUTH therefore loses it's meaning, ( especially concerning the Watchtower / JW Org. I have no interest in what you Truthers say or do, as to me it is just part of the 'world'. And I am also not interested in digging into politics, one side or the other. I'm not interested in calling people 'Left' or ' Right' as that is getting involved with the world. BUT back on topic. THE TOPIC IS ABOUT THE USE OF THE WORD TRUTH. And I repeat, the word TRUTH has lost it's original meaning, because to many People or Orgs misuse it. Maybe that is part of the Devil's plan. Words get diluted, they lose their original meaning, that can mean if we are not careful, when we read scripture we might lose the true sense of it.

That's fine, but as far as Mr. Butler is concerned here, I told him that if he made an accusation regarding the community that I play a role in helping, that would lead to a debate between him and me, and he did. did here.

Srecko that made me laugh, because it is so true. A perfect answer, well done

A man calls himself a TRUTHER. Another man calls himself TRUE And an Organisation says they have the TRUTH. But Jesus says (recorded at Matthew 9 :13. Berean Study BibleBut go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” God's word is TRUTH, that is real truth. The Pharisees had the Hebrew scriptures, so it could be said that the Pharisees 'had truth'. So why did Jesus condemn the Pharisees ? Because the Pharisees were hypocrites. They knew those scriptures well, but used it to be dictators of the people. Hence the scripture above. Almighty God and Jesus desires mercy not sacrifice. That scripture proves it. Unfortunately those words TRUTH or TRUE are now thrown about so much they have lost their real meaning. And if a Person or an Organsaition needs to use it as a title then what does it show ? Well here on this forum it seems to show that such people could easily be the type very similar to the Pharisees. Sticking to the Law, but avoiding the Mercy. Of course no true Christian would condone immorality. No true Christian would take part in immorality either. But, no true Christian would lack that Mercy that Jesus instructed either.

Storm Trouper you are a complete JOKE You are a PHARISEE but you cannot see how wrong you are because you are soooo concerned in being a 'Truther'. I don't have Gay friends, but I do have female relatives that live with female partners. I do not ask them about their sex life. It is none of my business. I do not spend time with them. They have their lives, i have mine. But I would help them if they needed help in an emergency. The 'Good Samaritan principle' I also do not go to parties, gay or other. i do not serve at parties, gay or other. I do not generally use the word Gay either. Homosexuals are homosexuals and that is the word i use. Matthew 9 : 13. The words of Jesus, Berean Study BibleBut go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

I know nothing about LEFT - WING. I am not political. I have no interest in left or right wing, because all people are individuals to me. And people commit suicide because of this. JWs are brainwashed to have a cold heart. Jesus was never that way. Matthew 9 : 13. The words of Jesus, Berean Study BibleBut go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

I just gave a short answer to show that one person (or dog) here says 'they (homosexuals) are a waste of time' to talk to about Almighty God. So it seems that one has chosen who is worthy and who is not, to receive God's message through Christ. If that person on here (who pretends to be a dog ???) has chosen homosexuals as not being worthy of receiving God message then that is as good as condemning homosexuals to death. Answer to your first question is NO I will not be going to any Gay Parade and NO i will not be watching it via any means. However it seems you know more about their activities than I do, because i didn't even know such a thing was taking place. But in this way you are doing the same as (the dog person) you are lumping them all as one. It seems that JWs and their followers just love to lump people together. Example : JWs on this forum lump all EX-JWs together, lump all apostates together, and now it seems they lump all homosexuals together. Is it because you are frightened of PEOPLE AS INDIVIDUALS ?