13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

[3] Who has condemn people to death?

17 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Talking to them about God is a complete waste of time.

You decide ? 

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

[1] can you explain to me why the Jehovah's Witnesses removed Gospel of John 7:53–8:11 from their translation of the Bible and some have not?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 7%3A53-8%3A11&version=NIV

New World Translation, online on JW Org. 

Luke 17 : ³⁵  There will be two women grinding at the same mill; the one will be taken along, but the other will be abandoned.” ³⁶  ——

Matthew 24 : ⁴⁰  Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken along and the other abandoned. ⁴¹  Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken along and the other abandoned.

Strange that the verse should be left out of Luke, but used in Matthew. 

13 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Talking to them about God is a complete waste of time.

 

This is your own judgement against them. So it seems that you no longer see them as people but just one specific group who would be a 'complete waste of time'. 

It's good that Jesus and the disciples did not view people in that way. 

I Corinthians 6 : 9 

 'Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, ¹⁰  thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom. ¹¹  And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God'

That is what some of them were. So how and why did they change ? If they had been treated as being a waste of time, then they would not have learnt about God and Christ, and they would not have changed. 

Are you really that bored ?  I know nothing about  Global Thermonuclear War.  but it sounds like it would kill the good with the bad people.

I believe that God and Christ know exactly what they are doing and THEY know the exact time to intervene.  The Earth will remain forever and those humans that have been shown mercy will live on it forever. 

On 8/11/2021 at 9:26 AM, Alzasior Lutor said:

Don't distort the word of God.

Wow. It seems that you think that God or Christ have given you authority to judge me.

You and Space Merchant seem to be of the same personality. You both seem to enjoy twisting topics just to get attention for yourselves. You both seem to demand that I answer your questions. But you are both just like the Pharisees. Your questions are not genuine. Your questions are aimed at belittling people. 

HERE ARE THE FACTS : - 

THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT HOW DIFFERENT JW MEMBERS OF THE SAME FAMILY, DEALT WITH AN EX-JW DAUGHTER THAT WAS LIVING WITH ANOTHER WOMAN. SO THE EX-JW DAUGHTER WAS LIVING A LIFE OF HOMOSEXUALITY. BUT HER PARENTS DIDN'T SHUN HER. 

THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT GOD'S VIEWPOINT AS SUCH, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THAT GOD HATES THE ACT OF HOMOSEXUALITY.  SO THAT DOES NOT NEED MAKING CLEAR TO US AS WE ALL KNOW IT ALREADY.

However my point still stands. How do you as individuals treat homosexuals ? 

Also there seems to be the point that even though that daughter is an EX-JW her parents have not shunned her. 

Whereas some on here seem to think they have the authority to condemn people to death. Running ahead of God and Christ. Which of you think you have the right to do this ? 

13 hours ago, Alzasior Lutor said:

Just to know your knowledge about God's feelings, I repeat my question (and hope for a clear answer on the subject by NOT answering my question, or deflecting this question): FOR YOU, in "your opinion", what does the Creator think about homosexuality. 

I anticipate your answer.
Thank you! 

I answered you above, and I'm sorry I do not know how to speak or write in French.

You indeed seem to think and write like a Pharisee.  My answer above does not deflect the question, BUT I can tell that your real reason for asking is not because you want a true answer.  You attitude is that of a Pharisee. You want to live by the LAW not by God's love through Jesus Christ.  

Tell me then, does God see a difference between Homosexuals and Homosexuality ? 

I wish I was clever enough to find the reference where by @JW Insider suggested that at one time a member of the GB was 'probably' a homosexual. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

the only authority Jack cares about distancing people from is that of the Jehovah’s Witness organization.

Authority given to then by WHOM ?  Not from God or Christ. 

Remember it was JESUS that said ALL AUTHORITY HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH. 

And do you think Jesus has handed over that authority to the JW Org ? 

18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As for my current ongoing debates, they're concerning Church Burnings,

https://www.nhregister.com/shoreline/article/Officials-Waterford-Jehovah-Witness-building-16377704.php

Officials: Waterford Jehovah Witness building damaged in blaze.  

13 hours ago, Alzasior Lutor said:

Patiently waiting for Truth
What does the Creator think of those who "practice" homosexuality? (Just to see "if" you know)
Best regard !

Oh ! you of little faith. What is your aim with this question ?  You speak like a Pharisee........... 

I've already made it known in the topic above.  We know it's wrong because we believe God's word and God's word tells us homosexuality is wrong. 

However the point of the topic was that different JWs handle the situation differently. 

So tell me, when you do ministry do you refuse to teach homosexuals ?  Do you actually refuse to speak to homosexuals ? 

Did Jesus refuse to speak or even eat meals with immoral people ? No.  Remember that those ones that Jesus spent time with were Israelites, who would have known the Law and known what God loves and what God hates. 

You should read Luke 7, from verse 36. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/magazine/homosexuality-jehovahs-witness.html

The magazine’s Ethicist columnist on how tolerance may hold together a family whose members have very different beliefs and values.

Well it seems the GB / Watchtower / JW Org are going to be going in for video broadcasting in a big way because that is what the building at Ramapo is all about. And in the assembly / convention talks they were giving instructions as to how donations should be made. I think @Srecko Sostar jokingly called in Video-vangalising or similar.  

Of course the Covid virus has stopped many things so it's easy to understand that JWs stopped the door to door work. However time will tell if this door to door work restarts and if the Kingdom Halls get reopened. Right now the KH are closed here in UK... That's why I try to be balanced on some points, because there are some things that are obviously done for good reason. JWs here in UK have been sensible regarding the Covid virus.. 

Concerning field ministry though, I tried to give warning to some JWs because I honestly thought that JWs would be in danger of physical harm due to the information concerning CSA which was and still is freely available to the public. I also wanted to make some other information known to my local congregation but, of course, they all stopped talking to me when i left, so it was impossible for me to show concern for them. I am still concerned about the elderly ones that have little knowledge about CSA or other problems in the JW Org. 

22 hours ago, Thinking said:

You think Jehovah’s hand hasn’t been visible in bringing these innocent cases to light ….yes bad men do enter into the Congs….yes we have elders who should not be elders and who have abused their powers and thus abused the sheep under their supervision…yes the Branch at times have given directions they should definetly not have given…yes we had to change some of our policies….yes some if not a lot of witnesses may not be able to ever see this…or even consider such a thing because it has not happened in their congs…they have not been touched by such things…because this sort of rot is not the norm…it is in fact the minority…and that is a fact!!

I have also heard them apologize…from the platform for such things..and even in print …but you are not there to hear it…I was…you are not there to read it…I was….even in the current convention they spoke about ones wronged and hurt in the truth….

Have you ever been sexually abused ? You personally ? Because I note how easy you can write about it, just as a historian would write an account of maybe, 'thousands of people dying in a war'......  You seem to be trying to clean your own conscience by admitting that CSA has taken place in congregations. BUT, CSA Victims are just treated as collateral damage in the JW Org.  

Your first sentence here. I used to use a scripture concerning this but i was quite often told that the scripture wasn't fitting. Luke 8 : 17 

Berean Study Bible
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be made known and brought to light.

When I read your words that scripture immediately came to mind. But bringing things to light is surely just the first step in the process of bringing justice and showing love and mercy to victims. More importantly though is the shame that has been heaped upon God, which the Org say they represent. Shame because those things I've just mentioned have not happened. Justice, Love, Mercy. Instead this CSA / Pedophilia has been allowed, by the GB / Elders et al, to be a stumbling block to many.  

Going back to February last year, there were articles from news media, suggesting that the GB were about to be either arrested or some kind of warrant issued to make them appear in court regarding CSA in the JW Org. It seems that victims of CSA had been interviewed with a view to big court proceedings. THEN the Virus happened, and all this 'news' went completely quiet. (Those old news articles may be available on a google search). 

Along with all that, the news articles about the, '25 year Database of Pedophiles in the JW Org USA' has also gone quiet....   This all seems very strange because the Watchtower / JW Org seem to suggest that 'worldly governments' would hate them, and would do anything to be rid of them.  So why has all this information suddenly disappeared ? 

As for this, and i quote :

because this sort of rot is not the norm…it is in fact the minority…and that is a fact!!

The CSA in the JW Org has been proven in, Australia, America, Canada, UK, Netherlands, et al.

Here in the UK we have The Charity Commission's investigation, and the newer IICSA investigation. They are not apostate people aiming to do harm to the JW Org. They are official organisations that investigate all CSA crime. They are mentioned in God's word at Romans 13 : 3

Berean Study Bible
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval.

And as for your point of :

I have also heard them apologize…from the platform for such things..and even in print …

I would love to see proof of this IN PRINT. 

20 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Someone here mentioned he misused Matthew 5:25, 26, which I don't think he did. to handle  things quickly and he mentioned things handled in a just matter with truth, and the point was focused on Jesus urging his disciples to be about settling matters quickly; this is general, like disputes.

Thank you , because that was my point. Jesus WAS talking to his disciples about solving differences quickly.

However, Splaine was using that scripture but he was refering to settling court cases out of court.  The court cases he was hinting at were the CSA court cases where the Watchtower / JW Org had settled out of court. We can see that because he said that even in they settle out of court, it does not mean they are guilty. 

19 hours ago, Equivocation said:

I think I'll be the pink elephant in the room with this one....

I finally have a break from college, coming back, and it is still pretty much the same prime suspects lol

😲 visible shock 😲

 

I take it no one has really changed that much? Did anything different instead, just say JW this and that? Same topics, etc? lol

But seriously, has anyone ever changed or did something so far? Did something positive? No barking, but biting wise?

 

Debate is good, leasons are learnt, reading different viewpoints can be helpful.

On the other hand David Splaine's convention talk advises JWs not to get involed with forums.  

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

16 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

since leaving the JW Org I am able to view both sides clearly.

LOL - misconception. You think too much of yourself

I really cannot understand this problem that you have. Here i am saying that I am able to view both sides of a situation, and you call that 'thinking too much of myself'.  I would say it shows an open mind, thinking outside of that box which the GB keep you in. David Splaine's talk proves that point clearly. He is obviously frightened of people knowing the truth, just as you seem to be. 

14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/2021Convention/pub-co-r21_8_VIDEO

Start at 1:03

Thank you again. I've just listened to David Splaine's talk and wow, what a slick tongue he has. 

He misused the scripture at Matthew 5 : 25  

²⁵  “Be quick to settle matters with your legal opponent, while you are with him on the way there, so that somehow the opponent may not turn you over to the judge, and the judge to the court attendant, and you get thrown into prison.

Splaine was obviously refering to court cases involving CSA which they have settled out of court. But those cases have been settled after the Victim had taken the Org to court. 

Another thing Splaine said, and it's there on that video, is that a judge may have 'been paid under the table' to judge against them. Wow, that is strong stuff from a GB member to suggest.

This talk obviously shows how worried the GB are about JWs getting hold of the truth about the Watchtower / JW Org.  They are worried about truthful negitive reports, and there are lots of those Earthwide. 

----------------------------------------------------------------

On the other side of things, a 'man of colour', I think his name is William Turner, gave a good talk about the Kingdom. I think it's in the Sunday morning session.  He didn't mention any 'date'. He didn't mention being part of the Org. The talk was purely about how we know the Kingdom is real. Fabulous talk.  A couple of things i got from it were : Gods promises always come true, and, Having faith in the Good News. The scriptures he used proved what he was saying. A nice, easy to understand, truthful talk. 

Such a contrast to the talk Splaine gave. 

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

In my language we call that sitting on the fence.......

In my langauge we call it being balanced. But only since leaving the JW Org am I able to view both sides clearly. 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/2021Convention/pub-co-r21_8_VIDEO

Start at 1:03

Thank you.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/twitter-boss-bitcoin-will-unite-the-world-and-bring-world-peace/ar-AAN8UH5?li=BBoPRmx

I put this up here purely as a bit of fun. But I thought a couple of things were coincidental to bible prophicy. 

Twitter co-founder and CEO Jack Dorsey has claimed that bitcoin will “unite a deeply divided country” amid debate about a controversial crypto amendment on a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill.

----------------------

Speaking at a bitcoin event last month, Mr Dorsey made a similarly bold claim by suggesting that the cryptocurrency has the power to bring about world peace. 

-   --------------

Mr Dorsey previously speculated that such an eventuality would come about after bitcoin becomes the “single currency” of the world, which he believes could take place in less than 10 years.

World Peace in about Ten years ?  Like i say, I put it here for a bit of fun.  It's MSN news  

23 hours ago, Thinking said:

As to who is going to survive all of this…we dont know who…it’s up to Jesus to do the judging….Jehovah is the reader of hearts….and yes we as a people did once preach and teach that you had to be a baptised witness to survive…(.but some  of us also did not believe that)…once again as a people we have had to eat humble pie….and realize only Jesus can judge this…we cannot say or even think such things…so hey…a lot of us are getting fat on eating humble pie…

17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

David Splane Convention talks does not support humility.

17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

He talks about the fact that not everyone who is convicted and punished "by man" is also guilty (because God does not think he is guilty) .... so then switch to the topic that if someone reads how an individual or organization is sued, then settle the matter out of court. Settling out of court does not mean someone is guilty, he says.

It's interesting to read these comments because it does make sense from both sides. Most 'boots on the ground' JWs are nice humble 'ordinary' people. Having been a JW in different congregations, I've known some nice people. Generally not the Elders though. Most Elders I've met have been unplesant. 

So, @Thinking are you saying that at one time you had to preach / teach something that you did not actually believe ? This isn't a trick question, it's taken from your own words as I've quoted above. 

The 'eating humble pie' is sometimes a good thing. I've been 'shot down' by SM many times of late, and in most cases he is right. So in my prayer to God at night I feel very guilty and find it hard to pray. Each day I'm realising that I'm more imperfect than I'd like to be. 

On this question of "had to be a baptised witness to survive", has there been a definite change in the Watchtower / JW Org teaching on this matter ?  I'll have to try and research that. 

@Srecko Sostar I haven't yet managed to listen to this Convention. What day was this talk on please ? I'd be interested in hearing it. Settling out of court does not mean someone is guilty, he says. But when that settlement includes the forced instruction that the Victim is not allowed to talk about the court case or accusation. When the victim has to agree to keep quiet then it's known as 'Hush money'.  It's no longer compensation, it becomes a payment to the victim to order them not to tell the truth to anyone. 

That is when we see the big difference between the 'boots on the ground' JWs, and the Governing Body and their lawyers. 

My apologies to @Jack Ryan as we seem to have taken this off topic. 

On 8/5/2021 at 4:45 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Now this is only ONE small portion of scripture. This portion is from the New World Translation written by the Watchtower Soc' / JW org, and approved by the GB of those orgs. And yet even JWs do not believe it. 

So how is a Christian supposed to 'study' God's word if that 'word' is not translated properly anywhere ? 

On 8/5/2021 at 4:45 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

People need to be able to trust what they are reading in God's word. But how can they if all translations are written according to the writer's own beliefs and agenda... If Strong's or any other, show that things can be translated in various ways, then how does the average Christian know which way is the right way ?

On 8/5/2021 at 4:45 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Remember Matthew 11 : 25 & 26

At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. ²⁶  Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.

Some of us are like young children. We are not wise and intellectual ones.  So, some of us need TRUTH to be simple. But 'religions' have made TRUTH to be difficult. 'Religions' have added burdens to even basic Bible study, by not translating it truthfully. Because 'religions' all follow their own agenda. 

Back on topic. Because the original topic was not ALL ABOUT 'nails and hands'. It was about Translations of the Bible.

However some on here didn't like that so they deliberately diverted the topic. 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I still wait on the claim though, so I did not forget about that, for that is quite damning of an accusation.

SM you write so much and repeat so much that is all becomes one big blurr. Like a train rattling along a railroad track. 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You are not someone who is equipped for a debate(s), especially if it is solely Bible based, so do not ask for something you know you cannot handle,

You see this. Do you see your attitude here ? Do you not get the sense that you are a bully ?  Are you so blind ?

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

 this is evident by the questions addressed earlier, which was not answered, although they were very obvious - for we know what the Bible speaks of concerning marriage.

And that is why they were not answered. Because they were so obvious that it would have been a waste of time answering them.  That isn't debate, that is stupidity. 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/2020-service-year-report/2020-grand-totals/