Patiently waiting for Truth

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

They promote disobedience to God... their sin seems to be equal to that of Adam!

Adam was perfect, no one on this forum is perfect.  I would also like you to prove this accusation of people on this forum 'promoting disobedience to God'. 

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

I recognize it for what it is - a useless exercise against Jehovah and his people!

The fact that you and many others believe that the Watchtower / JW Org 'are God's people', does not in itself prove that they are God's people. 

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Because of how he can get a reaction out of you, and equates all JWs to be alike.

If you are refering to me, i am not concerned with 'getting a reaction' from anyone. I am interested in open debate.

Also, I do not equate all JWs to be alike.  That would be doing the same as some on here do about Ex-JWs. 

I do however think that all JWs believe the same things regarding their religion, otherwise why are they JWs ?  How could they preach and teach if they did not believe the same things ? 

Oh dear James. Keep taking the tablets. 

The JW witnessing work certainly hasn't stopped here in the UK. The JWs have been sending out letters by the hundreds it seems. In some towns residents are complaining about the letters but at least it proves that letters are being sent, and they are being read. 

In conversation with an Elder yesterday he told me that magazines are still arriving here in UK, though I don't know where they are being printed. He also mentioned a 'new' study book, 'Enjoy Life Forever'.  I don't know exactly how new this book is but he said that a few copies are arriving in his location.  He did admit that the 'zoom' (or whatever they use) meetings were not as spiritually upbuilding as the personal 'getting together', but that brothers and sisters were still visiting one another where possible. He is the literiture servant for his congregation so deals with all the mags' and tracts etc. He also told me that the convention is available for viewing on the JW Org website, under Broadcasting. 

Although I don't agree with all they say and do, there is no point in pretending that they are inactive, because here in the UK it is obvious that JWs are still very active. 

15 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, address the quotation, if you speak such resolve.

You keep pushing just like a bully in a school playground. "Do this, do that. I told you this, I told you that".

No love, no thoughtfulness, just harshness. A Truther, with no heart. So be it.  

I suppose one thing that the JWs teach makes sense. "Don't argue, just walk away.  It doesn't matter what the enemy thinks, it only matters that you are pleasing God through Christ".   

@Space Merchant  I am sorry that you are so angry and have to 'hate' on me.  We will of course continue to have different opinons. You obviously think from a different angle to me but you sound so aggressive about it all.

You seem to like to tell me what I should and shouldn't think or do, and even to the point of which scriptures i should and shouldn't use. That does not show any form of love, it in fact shows the wish to control.  This is very much in line with the Watchtower / JW org leaders that wish to control the thinking and actions of every JW. 

Like I say, it would probably be wise for you to look in that spiritual mirror.  You may have lots of 'knowledge' but it would appear by the things you write that you lack the love of a true Christian. 

15 hours ago, Witness said:

the topic was suddenly closed to further comments.

How does anyone actually do that ?  Not that I'd want to because I believe in open debate, but I would like to know how Rambo does it... 

And you presume that people studying the Bible with JWs were ever taught this ?

Well not here in the UK. not back in the 1960's / 70's. 

Do you think this is taught in Kingdom Halls or via vidoe link now ?  

The JW teaching was, and probably still is, that it was a smooth transition from Rusell to Rutherford then to the JW org. 

I don't think you gave a link as to where this diagram came from., but I see it's on Wikipedia.... 

On 8/7/2021 at 10:24 AM, Space Merchant said:

Although Apostasy, being an alienation from God,

That's a dangerous accusation to make. In the beginning of Christianity there was only one direct Christian way. Now however there are many 'Christian' religions. You seem to be following the Watchtower direction of pretending that if a person does not serve God in a way in which 'you approve', then they are not serving God at all.  

Please go and look at yourself in the mirror and examine yourself spirtually. You are happy to dig at me with this :-

On 8/7/2021 at 10:24 AM, Space Merchant said:

Now in this regard, you can have apostates bring forth a claim regarding Jesus' crucifixion. Cross or Stake, Hands or Wrist, not realizing one shouldn't be reading into this literally to conclude their own exegesis.

but you actually lack the understanding of my meaning. Now whether you lack that understanding deliberately or not is not for me to judge. But for you to think you know who is alienated from God and who isn't, well I'll repeat, examine yourself. 

On 8/7/2021 at 10:24 AM, Space Merchant said:

As the cool folks say today, haters hate because they can't appreciate, in turn, haters makes one even more famous.

You are concerned what 'the cool folks' say ?  I prefer the words of the apostle Paul at Romans 12 : 9

"Love must be sincere. Detest what is evil; cling to what is good." 

I left the Watchtower / Jehovah's Witnesses because I learnt that their Leaders were involved in EVIL deeds. Not only the Leaders but also many of the Elders earthwide. Since leaving I've learnt of some of the many lies they have told, scriptures they have misused, and the lack of love and mercy they show. So I will continue to HATE WHAT IS BAD. Whereas it seems, you are more interested in what 'the cool folks' say. But who are those  cool folks ? Are they part of the devils wicked world ? 

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The vast majority of modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route.

Two points.  

@Witness said.

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Many leave the organization and find their faith in the Father and the Son has blossomed. 

And your reply was

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The vast majority of modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route.

So are you now admitting that it is people that LEAVE THE ORG that are apostates OF THE ORG ?  

NOT turning against God or Christ, because that is the second point. 

You say " modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route ".

So you are saying that you KNOW that most people who are apostate to JW Org are now atheist. That's a big accusation.

However in reality you don't even know how many are still serving God or how many are not. You just have your own agenda and write things to suit it. 

23 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That is what is on the table right now.

Thank you for all the information, and i stand corrected. You are right I don't dig deep enough. 

OK, even the meme is funny.  On this occasion I bow to your superior knowledge. Thank you. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems the name still exists though but as part of the JW Org. 

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=216647&subid=0

INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION

Charity number 216647 

Activities - how the charity spends its money

Promoting the Christian religion by helping congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses & others with their spiritual & material welfare. We provide facilities for the production of Bible literature & housing for members of the order of special full-time servants. Conventions for Christian education are arranged & the public are invited.

23 hours ago, Witness said:

These political and religious entities are not  Watchtower’s greatest threat.  How can they be, when they’ve shared the same bed together?  (now, we’re finding out that they are donating donated money to politicians…’robbing from the poor and giving to the rich’ to support wt’s platform.)

(now, we’re finding out that they are donating donated money to politicians…’robbing from the poor and giving to the rich’ to support wt’s platform.)

I think you need to give full details of this if you are making this a serious accusation.  Or at least give us a link or reference to be able to 'check it out' 

My feeling about the CSA situation and that 25 year Pedophile Database (information of which seems to have gone very quiet of late) is they someone is being paid off to keep it all quiet. If your accusation is correct then I'd like to know the details. But right now I will keep an open mind about it. 

On 8/6/2021 at 9:51 AM, Space Merchant said:

The Jehovah's Witnesses speak on this, but there is more going on that they do not know about, even as a whole, those that do are among the rare few.

Now this is interesting because the GB of the JW org say they are the F&DS and they say they are 'guided' by God. 

On 8/6/2021 at 9:51 AM, Space Merchant said:

for, in the JWs case, the situation with Russia, with events that took place before their banning (like 2016 in regards to religion, and 2017 in regards to the general public), and what essentially replaced them.

One would think that if the Watchtower / JW Org was God's chosen organisation then the Leaders would have known as much as you did back then. In fact they should have known even more, and should have known before you did.  Then they should have protected their own people, rather than leave them there to suffer. 

Tell me, these rare few that know so much more than everyone else. Are they guided by God or men ? 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The reason John Brown failed at Harper’s Ferry is that he raided Harper’s Ferry. There were more guns at Pudgy’s place.

But you know the truth about it. 

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This is the reason that I could not have chosen a better title or cover than I did for TrueTom vs the Apostates!

Promoting your books again. It seems that is all you are here for. 

17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

International Bible Students had since pass. Where have you been?

http://www.internationalbiblestudents.org/

13 hours ago, ApostaBabe Linda James said:

From what I gather from this latest summer symposium is, if there are gang members in your neighborhood who are killing your neighbors and harassing your own son on a regular basis, it would be wrong to own a gun for the protection of your family and home. ( I Linda, am not advocating for whether or not anyone should own a gun. ) But on the other hand

Luke 22:36

Berean Study Bible
“Now, however,” He (Jesus) told them, “the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.   

Yes I know that scripture is for entirely different reasons, but it seemed to fit well  '''

Maybe ask @Pudgy what he thinks of guns ? I think he and 'Billy the Kid' might own a few.

It must be terrible to actually live in those conditions though. Here in England it is more knives than guns but no doubt it will get worse.  If I find time I will try to listen to some of the 'new light' from the Org. 

You have all deliberately avoided the point. Although James did give it a good shot.

On 8/5/2021 at 10:13 AM, Pudgy said:

The ONLY reason such considerations are important is judging the credibility of those who claim to have "special insight" about such things, and who in doing so enhance their own authority and perception of their alleged wisdom.

Don't JWs have to judge the credibility of the GB / Watchtower writers ? 

My point was that surely a Bible should say EXACTLY what it means. IF 'certain people' think they have 'special insight', then surely those 'certain people' are responsible for giving a TRUE translation of God's word. 

I used one small scripture as an example. But if by that one scripture it can be shown that the translation is not a TRUE one, then how can the translation be trusted ? 

Pudgy here says it does not matter. But if i remember rightly, the GB through it's Watchtower magazine, have said that JWs will be given instruction 'that might not make sense', but that JWs are to obey that instruction anyway.

So credibility does matter. It matters to the point of life or death according to the GB. It certainly mattered in bible times for those very reasons. 

But if such people cannot even produce a truthful honest translation of God's word, then how can they be trusted with you life ?  

On 8/5/2021 at 10:23 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Ah. Now I see I have said the same as what @Pudgyjust said, only with less color.

Well yes. you and James always were in agreement. 

On 8/5/2021 at 8:33 AM, Space Merchant said:

You quickly went to his neck regarding 2034, not even seeing as to HOW and WHY he reached that conclusion, you didn't even give JWI findings a chance, to which he gave an ample amount of information.

What I seem to notice is that JWs (or pretend JWs) will use outside information when it suits them, and discard outside information when it does not fit with their ideas. 

Now regarding 2034. Surely it does not matter how many people have 'come to this conclusion' ?  Firstly, why are people needing to find a date ?  And why would JWs need to trust the words of 'worldly' men or men of other 'faiths' ? 

At this point I would question, is 2034 a Watchtower / JW Org teaching, or is it just a Rando teaching ? 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 8/5/2021 at 8:33 AM, Space Merchant said:

But you prove the point by most that former JWs are not usually that strong in the faith because they give in to misconceptions and misinformation. 

Are you suggesting that JWs have only 'true' information ?  This, you see, is an important matter.

The Watchtower / JW org is truthful on some matters, but that does not mean they are honest in all things. However the general consensus on this forum is that if a person leaves the JW Org, then they have left God, or left the 'truth'. 

So, are you saying that none of the Watchtower / JW Org teachings can be 'misinformation' ? 

Are you saying that the Governing Body of the Watchtower can not have 'misconceptions' ? 

On 8/5/2021 at 8:33 AM, Space Merchant said:

I won't link it again, look at what JWInsider said, do not ignore it this time.

Yes, by @JW Insider references, Russell tied himself up in knots with dates, predictions and then doubts about it all. 

But quite funny that Russell thought that people would still be reading his books now. The International Bible Students which still exist, seem to support Russell I think. 

Since Rutherford started the new organisation of the JWs there must have been a hundred books written by them, most of which have now been removed. They keep saying they have 'new light'. 

So, is 2034 'new light' or just some peoples dream ? 

On 8/5/2021 at 8:22 AM, BroRando said:

Was Judas Iscariot forgiven? Nope!

And what do you think this has to do with me ? 

I have not denied Almighty God or Jesus Christ.  I study God's written word and also pray to him. 

I have strong faith in God through Christ. And I do not guess at dates that are none of my business. 

I do not try to mislead others. I am not after followers for myself. 

The fact that I give warning about the JW Org having Pedophiles in it, and that Child Sexual Abuse takes place in it, this cannot be a bad warning to people. 

And the fact that I do not believe your GB are the F&DS has no bearing on my love for God or Christ. 

Jesus made a point of telling His disciples not to make names for themselves and not to place themselves above others. 

Unfortunately you seem to think that the Watchtower/JW Org replace God and Christ. You seem to be worshipping your  Organisations and your GB, or pretendig to do so. 

I do wonder if you are actually a JW at all. Or if you are deliberately trying to bring shame on that Organisation. That is exactly what Billythe Kid and others tried to do, and Billy also used  this way of trying to condemn me. 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You made an accusation, without even acknowledging the quotation equates to it.

That being said, both yield the same reaction, and the same accusation.

I will not be drawn out on this issue. I do not want some one to use it as an excuse to remove me from here. 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Both Paul and Barnabas did have their disagreements and forgave each other, however, neither of them attribute to misinformation and opinions deemed unproven.

My point about those two early Christians was that they disagreed, went seperate ways, but still forgave each other. 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

This is why I said to Arauna and Rando that Christians can break like glass should enduring events take place.

Indeed Christians can break and some do. However having left the JW Org I feel spiritually stronger because i have to 'go it alone' as far as people are concerned. My faith in God through Christ is stronger and that is what matters to me. 

Have a good day.

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

and "the Gospel must first be preached in all nations before the great tribulation, and end of the world".[38]

But that is basically straight from God's word. It doesn't take a genius to understand that.

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Newton expressed his belief that Bible prophecy would not be understood "until the time of the end",

Once again, this is written in God's word. So it seems he read the Bible.  Bibles were available in English from the 1550's if my research is correct. 

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is. You needlessly complicate it by being overly exacting, excessively unforgiving, and too enamored with your own righteousness.

“NAILS OR NAIL, HANDS OR WRISTS, AND OTHER SUCH SCRIPTURES. HOW DO CHRISTIANS KNOW WHAT IS TRUE ?”

They can’t. They need a True Anointed to explain everything. In the meantime, it’s important not to do anything except complain.

Whatever happened to “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door?” (Luke 13:24) He didn’t say wait for the doorman to ease your way in.

 

Wow. You and SM must get on well. All you do is criticize and judge me. You deliberately avoid the whole point of this topic because you get your pleasure, not from serving God, but from trying to wind people up and to get material for your books.

Have a good day Tom.  

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You give up when someone checks you.

Once again that is only your opinion. I stop when I realize I'm wasting my time reading. 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You are woefully incorrect, for not too long ago a meme made made you react in this manner. All the other things, even the citation from the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) resulted in you making a similar claim as to what you said in regards to the meme.

The meme is a very touchy subject that I will not get drawn into. You know why as I mentioned so at the time. 

The FBI thing I know nothing about but I'm sure you will enlighten me. 

Paul and Barnabas had a disagreement, they even went separate ways, but they both forgave one another. However you seem to have judged me and you tell me that i do not forgive others. So be it. You have chosen to think that way. 

Once again the only thing i take from your long comment is that you continue to judge me.  I hope it helps you to build your faith in God through Christ. For surely we will all be judged in due time.