Patiently waiting for Truth

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

You are obsessed with money - and judgment .....

Um, it was your words that caused my comment. 

20 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

22 hours ago, Arauna said:

That is why we cannot trust any political organization or any other organization that makes money in this system

So it seems that it's you that did the judging here and wrote about money. Although I agree with your words. 

https://torrentfreak.com/watch-tower-cant-identify-defendant-in-dubtown-copyright-suit-court-declines-to-help-210723/

The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society has run into problems in its copyright lawsuit against the pseudonymous creator of the animation series 'Dubtown'. The videos, which portray a fictional Jehovah's Witness town depicted in Lego, are created by 'Kevin McFree', but Watch Tower doesn't know who he is or where he lives, and nobody wants to help, including the court.

Lego JWs ? 

The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, the supervising body and publisher for the Jehovah’s Witness religious group, wants to put an end to the activities of a defendant known only as ‘Kevin McFree’.  ‘McFree’ (which is presumably not his real name) is the creator of the ‘Dubtown’ series of stop-motion Lego animations that take place in a fictitious Jehovah’s Witness town.

Who is McFree? Watch Tower Has No Idea

In a request for conference filed with the Court, Watch Tower says McFree “obtained purloined copies” of then-published videos and placed clips of those works in his video posted to YouTube. This amounts to copyright infringement and warrants a permanent injunction, Watch Tower says, but the road to that currently remains uncertain.  According to Watch Tower, it cannot ascertain the real identity of McFree. “The true identity and physical address of Defendant are not presently known to Plaintiff. The Infringing Video and YouTube account associated therewith identify Defendant only by the pseudonym ‘Kevin McFree’ and do not provide any physical address,” Watch Tower writes.  According to the religious group, it has made numerous attempts to discover McFree’s personal details. Referencing the 2018 DMCA subpoena application to YouTube/Google that requested access to McFree’s real name, address, telephone number and other personal information, Watch Tower notes that the process didn’t lead anywhere useful.

Sorry, I think this is so funny because my wife makes stop motion videos of Pippa dolls and uploads them to Youtube. 

13 hours ago, Anna said:

This is what the Aid book has to say:

Thank you, but I have little or no trust in the Aid book 

13 hours ago, Anna said:

But, over and above this, it appointed and commissioned him as Jehovah’s promised King, the heir to David’s throne (Luke 1:32, 33, 69; Heb. 1:8, 9), and to an everlasting kingdom. For that reason he could later tell Pharisees: “The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (Luke 17:20, 21)

So that would say, that as I've said, Jesus was King from his baptism onward and the Kingdom was in existence here on Earth at that time. But neither I nor the Watchtower / Aid book writers are inspired of God's Holy Spirit.

But we come back to the point, that if,  it appointed and commissioned him as Jehovah’s promised King, then and there at His baptism, then why do the Watchtower / GB / Org say he was made King in 1914 ? 

From that same item you quoted / linked :-

"Following his resurrection, Jesus informed his disciples, “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” thereby showing that he heads a government of universal domain. (Matt. 28:18) The apostle Paul made clear that Jesus’ Father has “left nothing that is not subject to him [Jesus],” with the evident exception of “the one who subjected all things to him,” that is, Jehovah, the Sovereign God. "

But, Jesus spoke those words whilst still human and here on earth. So it seems that whomever wrote this Watchtower Aid book section would have known that Jesus was King whilst Jesus was alive here on earth. 

So please tell me about 1914 ? What am I not understanding ? 

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

Only Jehovah can be trusted. 

 

Indeed only Almighty God through Jesus Christ can be trusted. 

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

That is why we cannot trust any political organization or any other organization that makes money in this system

But all the while the Watchtower / JW org are dealing in Property /  Real Estate and building their 'temples' of Warwick and Ramapo. They have taken over ownership of ALL Kingdom Halls so that congregations own nothing.  

Oh and something I thought was funny. The GB seem to be 'chasing' some guy because he is making LEGO stop motion videos, about a pretend JW town. The Watchtower lawyers cannot find out the real name of the video maker so can't sue him, but they  are still trying   The Watchtower love to sue people in 'worldly' court rooms it seems, buy they hate to pay out compensation to victims of CSA.  So yes, don't trust organizations 'that make money in this system'.

23 hours ago, Witness said:

The battle of Armageddon takes place within each one of us, not on the playground of Satan. It involves our choice of either truth or lies. 

I do not agree with this. (highlighted for the benefit of others) My reasoning is that the scriptures say that God / Christ will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth. And there has to be a complete Judgement of ALL people living on the earth so that the earth can be cleansed. This has to be done all at one time. 

If Armageddon was 'within' as you say then the 'world' would continue to be ruled over by the Devil and suffering would continue forever. 

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The notion of the Firstfruits (Chosen Ones, Anointed Ones) is 100% core to legitimate Anti-Trinitarians, this includes the Jehovah's Witnesses too.

But JWs say that the Kingdom was set up in 1914. 

Whereas Jesus was anointed as King at his baptism and in some ways made it known to the Pharisees whilst He was still alive saying 'The kingdom of God is amongst you'. 

Jesus told his disciple (John 10 : 16)   Berean Study Bible
"I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd."

And the 120 chosen ones, at  Pentecost 33 A.D, became part of that Kingdom at that time. 

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Yes. They make up Spiritual Israel,

My point being that Spiritual Israel / the Kingdom, started with the baptism of Jesus and then the anointing of the 120 at Pentecost in 33 A.D. 

So why do the Watchtower / JW org say the Kingdom started in 1914 ? 

I'm trying to get people's personal feelings on this, but people (JWs) seem frightened to give an answer. 

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

As long as most of your imperfect  thoughts are in line with the bible, in Jehovahs eyes that is OK!   Other agendas in his eyes is a no-no. 

I didn't know God had made you His spokesperson. You suddenly know what is ok in God's eyes ? 

Perhaps you should be running the Org then because your GB seem to demand more from people  

On 7/22/2021 at 10:09 AM, Pudgy said:

However, if your perception is agenda driven, you will always be wrong.

So the Watchtower/GB/JW Org will always be wrong by basing everything on 1914. 

And again they will be wrong because their agenda is to gain and keep power for themselves and their big businesses and real estate. 

Even Bro Rando seems to have an agenda about predicting a new date for the Judgement Time. 

Most JWs want the 'end to come' because they think they are 'safe' inside the Org. That alone is an agenda. 

But then we probably ALL have personal agendas. 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And the question/issue of "love"

Humans know different types of 'love' but I don't think humans understand love from God's perspective.

God's ways are far higher than human ways.

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

the "universal issue".

And this also, we can only see from a human perspective.  Arauna replied to me once that 'humans are important', but I think not in comparison to the Universal issue.  

It would seem that millions of humans will die at the Judgement time, and it will be a necessary 'operation'.  A bit like clearing a building site before building a nice new house. Many humans cannot handle thinking about it, they see it as hateful / cruel.. And in reality I think many JWs try not to think about it. But, God will do what God will do to solve the Universal issue. 

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

Babylon was the capital city of this rebellion being built in opposition to God and was the originator of many false doctrines in most religions i.e. immortality of the soul.

And 1914  

On 7/21/2021 at 11:04 AM, BroRando said:

Accepting Jesus as the Christ can add a profound meaning for your Life.

 

Yes, but it's the Watchtower / GB / JW org that complicate matters. By adding traditions of men and man made rules those men put stumbling blocks in the way of Accepting Jesus as the Christ. 

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Because right now, people seek the core knowledge of who God and Jesus are,

BUT, how are they seeking this knowledge ? 

The scriptures mention "Ten men clinging to the robe of a JEW"  But who are the 'JEW' in question ?

Of course i know it's not literal Jews, it's referring to 'spiritual' Jews. But unfortunately the GB / Watchtower / JW Org believe it is only them that will be saved. It seems that you do not agree with them on that point. 

14 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

This is elementary for most folks to know this, in fact this is absolute cake. The answer is Yes. He is also a Firstfruit, the very first one.

As for Pentecost 33 A.D., Jesus talked about the promise the people are to be given by means of the Father, which is the Holy Spirit.

 

You seem to miss the whole point of the questions. I know Jesus 'received' Holy Spirit at his baptism. My point was, was Jesus Anointed then.

And the same with the 120 in the Upper room. Yes they received Holy Spirit, but were they Anointed then ? 

The point being if they were Anointed then they became part of the Kingdom at that time. 

@JW Insider I would like your honest personal opinion about this and it would be nice to know the Watchtower teaching on this too. Would you be kind enough to read it from the top of page. 

15 hours ago, BroRando said:

International Bible Students Association:

Russell and the IBSA were NO part of the JW world.  It was Rutherford that 'stole' part of the association from the IBSA and, against the previous wishes of Russell, changed the whole way of running that Association, turning it into an Organsation.  Why JWs quote Russell, who was nothing to do with them, I do not know. 

15 hours ago, BroRando said:

Claiming an announcement was never fulfilled BEFORE it's due time is rather cowardly

Yes the Leaders / GB / Watchtower / JW Org has indeed been cowardly over the last 100 + years. 

Pretending that Armageddon was coming in 1941, early 70's, before the end of the century (2000). And pretending that a person must be a baptised JW to be saved. 

It's called fear mongering and yes it's very cowardly. 

On 7/3/2021 at 7:01 PM, Pudgy said:

Why not spend our time on something we CAN do something about?

Could be Theocratic or secular ... complicated or simple ... anything at all!

Yep, good idea.

My wife and I spend such time in the garden, taking photos of the flowers and birds and insects, all are God's creations. Photos are great for memory as flowers are soon gone. I also spend time in prayer, saying thank you to God for creating us in a way that we appreciate his other creations.... All much better than arguing about things that are meant for the True Anointed to understand and not for us. 

I think it's a few years away yet. God or Jesus Christ has to either cleanse the JW Org or form a new 'Association of Brothers'.   

To cleanse the JW Org the CSA  problem would need completely removing, and it's not enough just to do that, but it has to 'be seen to be done'.  The public would have to KNOW that the JW Org had God's approval. '10 men clinging to the skirt of a JEW' The GB would have to hand over that Pedophile Database which they are pretending doesn't exist. Then ALL the pedophiles in the Org would have to face their crimes, probably in court rooms. 

Yes it would take God's Holy Spirit to cleanse the JW Org or to form a new Association of Brother, but it has to be done to give people a chance of 'coming to know God properly' before the Judgement. 

JWs cannot grasp that people know about the CSA / Pedophile problem in the JW Org, and it is a BIG STUMBLING BLOCK  to people. So, the GB and their 'helpers' are blood guilty because they have created this stumbling block.

Luke 17 : 1, Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come.

On 7/17/2021 at 11:48 AM, JW Insider said:

The article times these two events at 1914 and 1919, of course.

I laughed, but in reality it's very sad. 

Then he said to his disciples: “Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few. ³⁸  Therefore, beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.”

This was in the time Jesus was here on Earth. Why can't the GB / Leaders see this ?

Because they are not guided or inspired of God's Holy Spirit  

Please bear in mind I'm 71 and I've forgotten more than I can remember. So here I am pondering on a few things, such as :-

When Jesus was baptised by John (Luke 3 : 21 & 22 )

²¹  Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up, ²²  and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”

Luke 4. 1. Then Jesus, full of holy spirit, turned away from the Jordan, and he was led about by the spirit in the wilderness ²  for 40 days, .................. 

Was Jesus anointed by God at His baptism ?  It would seem that Jesus did not have the holy spirit previously. 

Now, if Jesus was anointed at His baptism, did He also become King ( of the Kingdom) at the same time ? 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The 120 in the Upper room. The way Acts is written seems rather strange. For instance : -  Acts 1 

¹²  Then they returned to Jerusalem from a mountain called the Mount of Olives, which is near Jerusalem, only a sabbath day’s journey away. ¹³  When they arrived, they went up into the upper room where they were staying. There were Peter as well as John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bar·tholʹo·mew and Matthew, James the son of Al·phaeʹus and Simon the zealous one, and Judas the son of James. ¹⁴  With one purpose all of these were persisting in prayer, together with some women and Mary the mother of Jesus and with his brothers.

¹⁵  During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (the number of people was altogether about 120) 

Acts 2 : 1 Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. 

So here we have three different ideas : 'When they arrived',,, During those days,, while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress. But it seems that the 120 were the same ones mentioned in Acts 1 : 12 - 14. and the same ones mentioned in Acts 2 : 1.

So, were these 120 anointed by Jesus at that time ?  Acts 2 : 

2, Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. ³  And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, ⁴  and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.

Did these 120 become part of the Kingdom at that time ? 

We know that Jesus said that the Kingdom was already here, when he was on Earth. Recorded at Luke 17 : 20 - 21 

²⁰  On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming, he answered them: “The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness ²¹  nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.”

If Jesus was referring to Himself as King of the Kingdom, it would still prove that He had been made King by God at that time. Otherwise Jesus was not telling the truth. 

I will continue to ponder and add to this later. 

( I don't want anyone that has fixed ideas about the Kingdom being set up in 1914 to rant on this topic, thank you. You yourself know that Jesus said the Kingdom was already established before that date.)   

19 hours ago, Arauna said:

So yes, I leave it at that!  

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

Once again - do not project your crazy preconceived ideas onto me!

Strange way of 'leaving it at that' 

For those that may think the CSA problem in the JW Org has been 'put to bed'. It hasn't.  

https://jwwatch.org/child-abuse-2/child-abuse-records-reveal-extensive-data-collection-by-jehovahs-witnesses

Attorneys representing Alexis Nunez have filed a motion to compel the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York to turn over at least 10 pages of detailed database records involving abuser Max Reyes and three of his victims, including plaintiff Nunez.

According to documents tendered to the Sanders County Montana Court, Watchtower attorney Joel Taylor emailed three of the ten pages in question to the Nunez team on the eve of the final day of the 2018 trial held in Thompson Falls Montana. Taylor purportedly presented the sensitive documents as part of his strategy for closing arguments the next day.

The three pages in question have now been released in court filings, but attorneys for Nunez are demanding the entire 10-page dossier.

The database pages reveal the shocking extent of Watchtower’s internal child abuse investigations, including the disclosure that Watchtower Legal Department directors register whether or not victims of child abuse are “willing participants” in their own sexual abuse.

The documents combine notes taken by Jehovah’s Witness elders with answers to questions posed by the Watchtower Legal Department in New York, blended with additional data used by the Witnesses’ Service Department to determine how abusers and victims should be managed inside the congregation.

Minor victims designated as “willing participants” are treated as adults and subjected to judicial hearings and disfellowshipping.

-------------------------------------------

Why Demand the CM Database Pages?

As the Watchtower Organization continues to collect vast amounts of data related to sexual crimes, criminals, and victims, survivors are demanding answers for why this information is held by a religious institution and not promptly turned over to the relevant authorities.

Jehovah’s Witnesses currently subscribe to a policy where local elders are prevented from reporting child abuse unless the parent corporation Watchtower is unable to find a legal exception to the reporting requirement. The Church’s Legal Department has taken the position that what’s good enough for the Catholic Church is good enough for Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Witnesses believe they can project the Catholic confessional model upon all communications between members and their elders, regardless of whether the communications occurred in a confessional setting.

The Catholic model was originally set up to protect communications between a single confessor and his priest, but the Jehovah’s Witnesses expand the definition of protected communications to include their entire body of elders and all conversations with anyone involved in alleged wrongdoing.

In addition to the clergy-penitent confidentiality claims argued by the Witnesses, attorney-client privilege has become a decisive factor and key reason why Witness elders are instructed to promptly call Watchtower’s Legal Department when they learn of child abuse allegations – instead of calling the police.

Watchtower Plays Semantics

Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the Watchtower organization continues to deny that it maintains a database of child molesters and victims by arguing over the very definition of the word “database.”

On February 4th 2021, plaintiff Nunez ordered the discovery of multiple documents from Watchtower files, including a description of the “CM Database.”

The Jehovah’s Witness legal department responded by declaring that the documents demanded are not part of any kind of database, and that labeling it a database is a mischaracterization of the facts. Court records disclose Watchtower’s responses to the requests:

“INTERROGATORY NO. 1:

Describe the CM database by providing the following information. What is the name or designation the JW Defendants give to the database?

Generally describe the information contained in the database.

When was the database created?

-----------------------------------------

ANSWER: [from Watchtower] Defendants object to this request because it is vague and ambiguous in that the term “CM database” is defined by a mischaracterization of what the documents attached as Exhibit A are: entries from the Watchtower Legal Department’ s electronic telephone record keeping system reflecting privileged communications with clients. Defendants further object to this interrogatory on the grounds that it is not reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible information.”

It is difficult to imagine that the Court will not see past the semantics game played by Watchtower, given the awareness that the information collected by this “electronic telephonic record keeping system” is shared with the Service Department of Watchtower. The Service Department of Jehovah’s Witnesses maintains a “Hub” database of Jehovah’s Witness information that is designed to consolidate member data for more than 8 million adherents, known as “publishers.” That information contains extensive personal information about each member, including internal judicial documents such as the S-77 Notice of Disfellowshipping or Disassociation.

Jehovah’s Witness Data Collection, where Publisher Identification is incorporated into the HuB Database. Image: leaked Watchtower video.

In 2017, sensitive documents and videos were leaked from inside Watchtower headquarters, revealing the extent of their data collection schemes. A program called HuB (Headquarters-unity-Branch) was announced as the replacement for their preceding global database and management system known as “Admin.”

Also announced was the “Records Management” system for maintaining vast amounts of organizational data in a centralized database. Old paper records were scanned into this new system using highly sophisticated equipment and character-recognition software, further enhancing the Organization’s ability to track every aspect of the Witnesses’ corporate empire, including sensitive personal data.

Judge Elizabeth Best now presides over the Montana case and will rule whether or not Watchtower will be compelled to turn over the 7 pages of data in question. The release of those documents may well have an adverse impact on the Jehovah’s Witness defense.

The trial date has been set for September, 2022.   So it continues. 

https://www.vozpopuli.com/espana/testigos-jehova-denuncian-disidentes.html

It seems that JWs in Spain are trying to BAN a Spanish Association of Victims of CSA.

The Jehovah's Witnesses in Spain have filed a lawsuit in the Torrejón de Ardoz court (Madrid) against the Spanish Association of Victims of Jehovah's Witnesses. According to the lawsuit to which Vozpópuli has had access , they consider that the mere existence of the association undermines their honor by calling themselves "victims" of this religious cult.

In their lawsuit, they ask the courts to declare "illegitimate interference" of this association as well as the specific people sued individually, in the "right to the honor of religious confession." They also ask for the "elimination" and "extinction" not only of the name of the entity, registered in the National Registry of Associations in February 2020, but also of its social media accounts and its website.

The religious confession, headquartered in the Madrid town of Ajalvir, considers that the new association makes an "illegitimate exercise of freedom of expression and information" by publicly denouncing the alleged cases of abuse and aggression suffered within the religious cult.

"They want to silence us"

The secretary of the Association, Enrique Carmona, explains at the request of this medium that Jehovah's Witnesses "want to silence our public message" and that their association aims to seek justice and bring together all those people who have abandoned the cult for the alleged malpractice .

The defense lawyer of the Association, Carlos Bardavío , is willing to pull the blanket to uncover possible cases covered up by the congregation. It will request the practice of statements in court of many witnesses and will provide documentary evidence to "prove" that within the organization there have been many suicide attempts, cases of ostracism and anxiety about some of the practices that have been carried out. out from some of these congregations.

Please note that this is translated from Spanish so word for word might not be perfect. 

But i think it gives the general idea of what the Spanish 'branch' of Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to do. 

JW Org working in complete opposition to the words of Jesus Christ. 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Funny!  It seems that those who turn against Jehovah have more mental health problems than anyone else! And the first thing to go is their sense of logic....   quite well demonstrated here in the hate - OCD.

 

I'll just leave this here again. It refers to Tom and Arauna. 

You are so upset that you have to keep repeating to yourself that we are 'crazy' 'dodos' 'hate OCD' 'venom'.  You need to keep saying these words to yourself because it then stops you seeing the truth about your GB and the Orgs.. 

And it seems Arauna cannot see the difference between Almighty God, and, the JW org. I think that proves how slyly the GB and previous leaders have pushed God and Christ to one side, replacing those they should be served with MEN that should not be served. 

13 hours ago, John Houston said:

There was a question asked which seemed tricky at first, but once I read it again I understood it and with practicality it can be answered. The husband would have to go through life alone,until the death of his wife. Even with a divorce it does not free him to remarry. That is just common sense. There are no loop holes or other circumstances. Sexual misconduct by his wife or her death frees him to remarry. PERIOD!

Matthew 9 : 13

Berean Study Bible
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

I am not surprised!  if people cannot even understand that different illustrations lead to different conclusions - then their world is pretty one-dimensional. So yes, I leave it at that!  

 

Well i am quite surprised, that you and many others believe what 8 men tell you to believe just because they CALL THEMSELVES the Faithful and Discreet Slave, and they tell you to believe 'that God and Christ trusts them'. 

Your GB back tracked by saying that they are not inspired by God. But still you hang on their every word.

The world of JWs must be even more one-dimensional because they have to believe and serve their GB through the Elders, and by doing so JWs have to cling to 1914 because they are TOLD  to believe it.  

so yes, leave it at that. 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

The biblical illustrations are there to illustrate different points and not to clump together in ONE idea.  It is sad to see that there is so little depth in understanding.

We will have to agree to differ on this.