Patiently waiting for Truth

On 7/11/2021 at 9:41 AM, JW Insider said:

(Matthew 13:39) . . .The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, . .

Matthew 9 : 37 & 38

 Then he said to his disciples: “Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few. ³⁸  Therefore, beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.”

is and are, are present tense, so is this the same harvest mentioned in both scriptures ?

It would seem that the harvesting work started whilst Jesus was still here on Earth with his disciples. Does that mean that 'the conclusion of the system' also started at that same time ?

Also, John 10 : 16

¹⁶  “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold, those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.

Does this mean that Jesus had also started gathering people that were not going to be anointed ones ? Was Jesus also harvesting the 'non-anointed' whilst he was on Earth ? 

I'll just leave this here for @TrueTomHarley  

But in reality you are upset that some of us are sensible people that have prayed to God through Christ and have been given a basic understanding of scripture so that we can prove how sinful and immoral the GB and it's multi organisations are.

You are so upset that you have to keep repeating to yourself that we are 'crazy' 'dodos' 'hate OCD' 'venom'.  You need to keep saying these words to yourself, just as Arauna does, because it then stops you seeing the truth about your GB and the Orgs..

However, if God wishes it to happen, then some who come here will find truth. 

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

and I don’t like to be a troll.

It would be interesting to hear your opinion of what these two words mean.

Troll and Apostate.

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The downside of handling apostates the way we do is that we almost create an aura of mystique about them that they do not deserve. On some level, they are no more than Demas, who left Paul because he loved the present system of things.

Do you repeat this rubbish to try to reasure yourself that you beleive it ?  

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I think we have a “good” assortment of “apostates” on this forum in that some of them are flat-out crazy, and the ones that aren’t are over-the-top in their venom—‘hate OCD’ is how Aruana puts it,

But in reality you are upset that some of us are sensible people that have prayed to God through Christ and have been given a basic understanding of scripture so that we can prove how sinful and immoral the GB and it's multi organisations are. You are so upset that you have to keep repeating to yourself that we are 'crazy' 'dodos' 'hate OCD' 'venom'.  You need to keep saying these words to yourself, just as Arauna does, because it then stops you seeing the truth about your GB and the Orgs..

However, if God wishes it to happen, then some who come here will find truth.  

13 hours ago, Thinking said:

That doesn’t make sense Anna,,,,sorry but anyone can be persuaded by the devil…as Eve was…are you spiritually stronger than she was…am I…...with correct persuasion one can discern biblical truths…with false persuasions one can follow down the wide path of destruction…with tricky or sly persuasions one can leave the narrow path and join the wide path…

ALL !!!!!forums are the playground of the demons Anna…….and why wouldn’t a hungry lion who has a taste for JW blood not go hunting where they gather…..

Beware he who thinks he is standing does not fall……

It seems any JW can be persuaded by the GB that the GB are the F&DS.

And it seems that any JW can be persuaded by their GB that 'God and Christ trust the GB'. 

So yes it does seem that people can be persuaded by the Devil. 

Quote "ALL !!!!!forums are the playground of the demons Anna"

If you truely believe this then why are you here ?   

14 hours ago, Thinking said:

Emotions are naturally existent in any of these discussions because lives are involved…what some of you say here…could very well end in someone’s death…

I think disfellowshipping some people has caused them to commit suicide.  And the threats in the Watchtower mags over the years must have caused mental health problems for many. And ordering parents not to speak to d/fed children, and wives not to speak to d/fed husbands. You think all that instruction is from God ? Jesus said "Learn what this means 'I want mercy not sacrifice'". 

When an Elder phones my wife and tells my wife I was disfellowshipped. But my wife knows the truth, that i left the Org because of the immorality CSA in the Org earthwide. So my wife puts the Elder straight and the Elder replies, "It's all the same to us".  Think on that. That Elder is condemning me to death, because the Org teaches that 'You have to be a baptised JW to be saved'

This forum is very tame in comparrison. 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Only the characters I have come to know who have the same attitude as you do - that compulsive hate...... there is never a balanced way in the thinking processes ....... it is never ever positive. Always the modus operadi smells foul. 

On the other hand I do not always agree with JW Insider and have accused him of other stuff but never of hate-OCD.  That is a special designation for people with specific personality traits.  So - you have that assessment wrong as well! 

As a Christian and a lover of God and Christ, I forgive you. I forgive Tom and Thinking also.

On 7/11/2021 at 8:43 AM, BroRando said:

You cannot slave for God and for Riches.

The GB of the Watchtower / JW Org should think on that whilst they build their empire of real estate. 

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

All that remains is to tell the little women to leave the thinking to us menfolk, who know how to do it.

Now that is your attitude toward @Witness .

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

And you Arauna, do not come off as emotional at all.

Only that she accuses half of this forum as being hateful OCD, just because people do not agree with her on most things.

And now it seems that @Thinking accuses us of having a demon. 

And you think that is all rational thinking.  

I would also suggest, this need in you to call me a dodo every time, shows some unbalanced emotion in you.

Hence you seem to get on well with the ladies on here.  

On 7/11/2021 at 9:41 AM, JW Insider said:

Yes. The Bible says that Jesus was already bringing persons into that Kingdom, and that he made them to be a Kingdom.

But the JW religion teaches that the Kingdom was not established until 1914. 

However the Bible seems to state that the Kingdom was already established whilst Jesus was here on Earth. 

On 7/11/2021 at 9:41 AM, JW Insider said:

But not ALL things that are "bound" by humans on earth are eternally bound in heaven, yet. Some persons in the current earthly side of the Kingdom will need to be thrown out of the Kingdom when the harvest (the conclusion) begins. So there is also the promise, the covenant, that those remaining faithful to the end will be granted entrance into the everlasting Kingdom (the heavenly portion):

Some persons in the current earthly side of the Kingdom will need to be thrown out of the Kingdom

The Kingdom, in my opinion, is spiritual. Hence not visable to humans. But you have said as the scripture says. 

Matthew 13 : 41.

⁴¹  The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness,

Now, this scripture mentions 'that cause stumbling'.  This makes me think that, the cause of stumbling will be removed before the teaching work ends. I do not have any idea about translating scripture from 'original' language but, when i read many scriptures they are in the presnt tense. To remove the 'cause of stumbling' would seem to be to allow the good news to be preached properly. Other wise why does it not say, 'that have caused stumbling' ? 

Now a big question. Where, on Earth, is this 'earthly' part of the Kingdom ? 

The 'earthly' part of the Kingdom is surely those of the Anointed remnant. So, are those of the Anointed remnant, only in the JW Org ? Or are they individuals, or part of other religions ? 

I did have another thought, and yes it's just my own opinion.

I thought that the time we are living in could be a 'harvest' of the Anointed, whilst still being a sowing / watering of the 'earthly class'. so that when the True Anointed remnant 'shine as brightly as the sun', there might be a greater ingathering of 'earthly ones'.

(You and others may think I'm here to 'trick' people, or cause trouble. I'm not. I'm here looking for true answers. I'm trying to build on what i already beleive. Yes i can read scripture but then i only get me own viewpoint on it. I'm prepered to ask questions and read answers. ) 

On 7/11/2021 at 8:51 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

On 7/11/2021 at 7:42 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

JWs presume only their religion is true and righteous. So to follow through on that from a JW viewpoint, the Kingdom must be in the JW Org. 

Just as I stated. It has become ‘all roads lead to heaven’ with him. That didn’t take long.

I’ll bet already with him Jesus has died upon a cross.

Once again I can only say that Tom seems to be unwell. Mentally and spiritually unwell. Otherwise there is no excuse for his dishonesty and twisting of my words. This dishonesty and wrongful judgement from him will not go well for him in the coming judgement. 

Tom makes strange statements with no explanation. Back in that 1st century people did the same toward Jesus.  Jesus was accused of all sorts of 'sin'. The apostles too were treated badly by many. 

Why should anyone that is trying to serve God through Christ expect any diferent. 

22 hours ago, Thinking said:

Ban me if you like from this forum..which houses dark forces anyway….I have to ask…myself why on earth are we and even worse/ me! tangoing with such dark forces….

Also who ever runs this forum at some stage you are going to have to step up  and protect ones who are honest hearted….and not become complacent in the devil having a platform……all for the sake of interesting conversations…..why not let’s just sit with the devil….I wonder how Jehovah would view us then..

22 hours ago, Thinking said:

The demons are very active on forums …it gives them the voice that Jehovah took from them.

I'm sorry you are feeling so unwell, get well soon.

It is my opinion that God created women to be be more emotional than men. So also in my own opinion you and Arauna show more emotion than practical thinking. Your aka is Thinking, but it seems your thinking is based on emotion rather than consideration of facts.  

I do find it funny though that some us are judged in a more derogatory term each 'day'.

Apart from being called, stupid, dodo, etc, some of us are called apostate and more, but now it seems you wish to call us 'demon possessed'.  I'm impresed actually. Jesus was said to 'have a demon' 

Luke 11 : 15 

Berean Study Bible
but some of them said, “It is by Beelzebul, the prince of the demons, that He drives out demons.”

JWs seem to live and think inside a small box. That small box is controlled by the GB through others with 'authority', down to the Edlers. When anyone thinks outside of that box they are accused of all sorts of 'sins'. 

I think your comments are just over emotional reactions. But please be careful what you accuse people of as it may not go well for you in the coming judgement. 

15 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

For example many churches are making the new morality acceptable and the pope is pushing  the LGBTQ and UN Agenda 2030.  The harlot is riding the beast just like before but she is blatant about it and thinks she is riding like a queen ... that nothing can happen to her. Orthodox religion is standing up against the governments and getting involved in politics (also riding the beast in different way). False religion is starting to show their true colors by following political agendas - they have the mark of the beast - politics.!

The churches are part of this world, not part of the Kingdom. Jesus said his angels will collect out FROM HIS KINGDOM, not from the world. 

The scripture I have quoted is from the NWT and it says PEOPLE who practice lawlessness. 

So where is the Kingdom and those people mentioned ? 

Remember that the Kingdom is no part of this world.

JWs presume only their religion is true and righteous. So to follow through on that from a JW viewpoint, the Kingdom must be in the JW Org. 

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

First it was God’s name. Now it is the paradise earth. It didn;t take long. Tomorrow, if not now it will be “all roads lead to heaven.”

Once again you find the need to misquote me or to twist what I write. Tom you seem unwell spiritually.

So explain this implication quoted above if you can ? 

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Anyone who ‘proves’ his points by saying ‘With God all things are possible!’ Is open to that criticism.

Anyone that does not believe that 'With God all things are possible', must have lost their faith in God. 

I see this in you Tom, you seem to have no faith in God, Christ or the Holy Spirit. Your 'faith' seems to be in your GB and it's Org. 

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

That is the impression I also have.  A bunch of people who have hate-OCD and come here to troll.  There is not genuine interest in learning anything from anyone!  You are merely here to waste our time..... deliberately!

I am sorry you feel that way. Your time is your own to use as you wish. It is therefore your own choice if you converse with people that you do not like.

As for your point of 'not genuine interest in learning anything from anyone', then it depends on your viewpoint. 

I ask questions of people to get a fuller meaning of their viewpoint but then i get accused of being a 'follower' of them. I don't mind accusations being thrown at me, not even accusations of being D/fed.  We are all human and we all have our own viewpoint. 

A few words about HATE from your Org. 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1970843

This right kind of hatred is in imitation of Jehovah, the God of righteousness. He does not hate what is bad because of frustration nor does he manifest his hate in uncontrolled, intemperate, violent actions. God’s hatred of what is bad is a principled hatred. Such hatred does not disturb one’s peace of mind and afflict one with ulcers. It is a strong dislike, an extreme aversion, a pronounced distaste, a profound repugnance of what is bad. It means to loathe, to abhor, to abominate whatever is bad because it is wrong, very harmful and wholly unloving.

WHY HATE WHAT IS BAD?

First of all, Jehovah hates what is bad. That in itself should be reason enough for any of us also to hate what is bad.

Matthew 13 from v 36.

"Then after dismissing the crowds, he went into the house. His disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” ³⁷  In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; ³⁸  the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, ³⁹  and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. ⁴⁰  Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. ⁴¹  The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, ⁴²  and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. ⁴³  At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen."

Does this scripture prove that the Kingdom is here on Earth right now?

41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness,

Could this be the removing of 'the ones causing stumbling and practicing lawlessness' within the JW Org ? and then 'the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun', those being the True Anointed ones. 

The scripture seems to make it clear that the Kingdom is here on Earth right now.

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Maybe even use their perverse imaginations

That's funny as it was something perverse that I remember. 

I do wish I had kept ALL the things you have written, but I only saved one.  

14 hours ago, Arauna said:

We know this person's writings better than you.  Do now write about what you do not know - you come across as very gullible!

My disagreement is not about Tom writing about Pearl or Witness. I've purposefully never ventured onto Pearl's website. 

My dislike is when Tom choses to lump many of us into some 'following' or other, just because we may ask a couple of questions. Tom seems to have this need to 'lump people together' into groups, and to be sarcastic about it all.  

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I could see how one or more of these things could be twisted into a rumor of the kind that results in stories.

Or vice versa  .  As in you making excuses for things that happened. 

As for the 'secret tunnels', I think I remember, long ago, you saying that they had been used for 'other' purposes. 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Do you believe you are one of them?

Arauna I have many times said that I am not anointed. There would be no grounds at all for me to think i was.

I am not anointed. I am not a 'chosen one' I am not of the heavenly class. I am not part of the body of Christ. 

But neither do i have an 'earthly hope'.  I don't 'dream' of living forever here on Earth. 

I live each day as it is, and my thoughts are more for other people than myself.  I seriously worry that no one is teaching truth right now. So you see, i find no need to be concerned as to my future, because i am not important. 

21 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No surprise there. She has made some converts here though, PSomH, Srecko, and KickFace, for example, fall all over her. @Patiently waiting for Truth,your TrueAnointed has revealed herself. However, I’m not sure she has any doctrine other than expressing jealousy over those who have a bigger stage than she does. And she channels. Where does that come from?

Oh dear Tom. Get well soon. You have a problem in your heart it seems.

I said it so many times before but it seems I need to say it again. TOM loves to groupe people together and then put one big label on them. It makes him feel good, gives him a 'kick' of some sort.  The reason seems to be that just because Tom is part of a flock of misled sheep, he thinks that everyone else has to be. So dear old Tom finds the need to put us in a flock. This this he's chosen @Witness. Previously he'd chosen @JW Insider. Who will you group us with next time Tom ?

The True Anointed will prove who they are when Christ choses to make it happen.  The remnant are part of His body, and HE will give them 'power' to do what needs to be done.  I'm quite happy to be mocked and laughted at whilst I remain patiently waiting for truth.  The other option would be, to be active IN TELLING LIES. 

23 hours ago, Thinking said:

Im guessing witness and some others will respond to this…waste of time if it’s for my eyes as I don t read any thing written by you….or some others…

That would seem to make you a coward. Push forward your own opinions but frightened to read the opinions of others.

As for being inspired by demons, maybe you should take a closer look at your GB. they prove themselves to be the 'wicked slave' and prove themselves to be saying 'the master is delaying' 

The GB tell the Anointed not to gather together for prayer and Bible study and the GB tell the Anointed that they 'would be working against the Holy Spirit' if they did meet together. Um, so where does your GB get this inspiration from ? 

They admit that they are not inspired of God's Holy Spirit. 

Who would want to stop the True Anoined ones from meeting together for prayer and the study fo God's word ????? 

18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Read about David, Moses, Peter, Paul, Barnabas, Mark, Thomas, and James with John

This would probably be a seperate topic but I'd like to hear / read you thoughts on these men above mentioned.

David, adultery and murder, premeditated it would seem.  Moses lost his temper / self control maybe ?

But tell us about  the 'sins' of the others.  They were chosen by Jesus, to do a job. 

I've often read on here that the disciples / apostles 'were just as bad', but I've never seen real examples. 

Russell maybe chose himself, then called himself righteous ??   

I see the GB in that same light. Well maybe they choose each other, but then call themselves the F&DS and say that 'God and Christ trust them'.  That's a bit like calling themselves righteous.  It seemsto follow a pattern. 

18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But I fear, you might have been the only one interested in any of those details.

To be honest i care not about Russell in himself. I do find what you write interesting and that you do so much research. 

I find fault in the GB/ Org using Russell as part of it's history, because I think Russell would be totally adainst the JW Org. And I'm still interested in knowing more about the division, as the IBSA seems to still exist today. 

So to me the Watchtower,  JW Org or now the CCJW (whichever aka suits people) is a totally different thing to the 'religion' that Russell started. It would seem that Rutherford 'stole' the Watchtower, whether legally or not i don't know. And it would also seem that Rutherford was 'not a pleasant man'. 

Maybe Rutherford will be your next topic ?  Thank you for sharing all previous info'. Have a good day. 

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I just re-read what I wrote, and realize it gives a much worse impression of CTRussell than I intended.

You are strange JWI. As I've said before, you write something then you basically apologise for it. 

We all know that Almighty God, and Christ, read hearts. I cannot imagine God or Christ using Russell, going by what you've written. 

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

that it can be difficult for a man to stay humble when he believes he has an important mission to accomplish. 

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

it tells me that he wasn't actually as "justified" as he claimed to be. (By "justified from birth" Russell said that he meant he didn't have the same need for contrition since he was free of purposeful sin.)

Um I don't see much about being humble there. And you seem to have proven that Rusell commited lots of purposeful sin.

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

And of course, Russell had already tried to smear her reputation in the pages of the Watchtower itself. The pettiness of those Watch Tower articles has always bothered me.

What can one say. By what you are telling us, Russell used what was supposed to be, God's way of 'getting His message to people, the Watchtower, to smear his wife's reputation.  What does that say about this man ? 

15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

There is also this claim that Russell was an extremely successful businessman who spent his fortune on something that would not benefit him financially. Well, people do this all the time, especially if they think they might get something else out of it besides financial gain

Um, sounds familiar. The GB come to mind. Real estate comes to mind. 

if they think they might get something else out of it besides financial gain. Yes indeed. 

Well Russell wasn't a JW, but the GB do seem to be like Russell . Self centered in seems. 

14 hours ago, xero said:

Why do you spend so much energy worrying about the affairs of other people?

That is so funny considering the topic you've made here and the length of your first comment. 

You seem concerned about people's attitudes and about people 'grumbling'. 

I'm more concerned about the way JWs bring shame on God and Christ. 

14 hours ago, xero said:

What an ironic moniker.

It wasn't me that did the blaming of their own people. Hypocrits 

I'll just place this here again. 

On 7/8/2021 at 6:36 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

It's quite funny what lies people tell themselves in order to have a clear conscience about being a JW. 

It must take a very dull or almost dead conscience to remain a JW. 

On 7/8/2021 at 11:35 AM, Pudgy said:

I find that all this "1914 Overlapping Generation", "Gog of Magog", and "King of the North" stuff does nothing but distract me ...and even if it is all true, it SOUNDS phony, and destroys any credibility that I might otherwise perceive

An Edler once said to me ' Things written in the Bible are there for a purpose, not just to fill up space'.

The overlapping generation is NOT written in the Bible. But the other things are.

The probelm is, the GB / Leaders / helpers of the Watchtower / JW org, just cannot be humble. They cannot just say 'We don't know'.   They are always pretending there is 'new light', which is funny as they now admit that they are not inpsired by God's Holy Spirit. so yes, they destroy their own credibility.