Patiently waiting for Truth

On 3/11/2021 at 1:30 AM, JW Insider said:

If we are in the "dark" we will be trying to make predictions, and trying to focus on the "times and seasons" which are not in our jurisdiction. But we are not in the dark about those things we should focus on instead.

On 3/11/2021 at 1:30 AM, JW Insider said:

When 2 Peter 3:17 speaks of having "advance knowledge" it is important to note that this "advance knowledge" is the knowledge that it would come as a thief, unpredictably, whether immediately or 1,000 years from now. That's exactly the opposite of trying to put a time prediction on the parousia.

Well the Bible Students and Watchtower writers (GB & JW Org inc') have, from thier very begining, been putting dates, times and seasons on the coming Judgement Day.  So then, they must be in the dark. 

Even now there is this rumour of another date, 2034 is it ?  So who started that one, and are they also in the dark ? 

On 6/17/2021 at 5:12 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

“And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.”

Wasn't this one of the things made 'illegal' in the Law given to Moses (yes I know that's badly worded)

21 hours ago, BroRando said:

WTS Quote: Paul calls the congregation “God’s temple.” At Eph 2:21, 22, the congregation is called “a holy temple” that God inhabits “by spirit.”

That Eph' scripture does not mention 'the congregation'. It is only the Anointed that are part of the Body of Christ, that holy Temple.   The rest of the congregation are but 'little dogs' that feed from the crumbs dropping from the table. 

21 hours ago, BroRando said:

then it paves the way for Jesus to bring judgement upon those who mistreated his chosen ones of the 144,000.

The GB are in for trouble then. The GB are beating their 'fellow slaves' and telling those Anointed slaves not to meet together. The GB say it would be 'working against God's Holy Spirit for the Anointed to gather together for prayer or bible study. 

21 hours ago, BroRando said:

But when you add the Last Days of Noah, what do you get for the Last Days of this Age? 1914 + 120 yrs = 2034

I think that many faithful servants of God through Christ now do not believe that 1914 has any true spiritual meaning.

However, I keep coming back to the point where we are told in Scripture that ' on account of the elect / holy ones  'those days will be cut short' 

Matthew 24 :22 

Berean Study Bible
If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

So how short is short ? Will those days be reduced by a month, a year, how much ? 

Juggling numbers means nothing unless the true answers come from God, through Christ, by Holy Spirit. 

18 hours ago, hgp said:

But Satan could choose evil in a world without evil, couldn't he? Doesn't that show, evil doesn't have to exist in order to choose it?

I don't think 'evil' existed in the beginning so Satan didn't actually 'choose evil', he 'created it'.  The same as disobedience didn't exist until Satan was disobedient to God. The problem all humans have is that we use words to explain things, and all of those words can mean different things to different people. It becomes more complicated when words need to be translated from one language to another.  

18 hours ago, hgp said:

But "according to current interpretation" the generation that lives through the great tribulation will live forever.

Will there not be a final testing at the end of a thousand years of Christ's reign ?  

16 hours ago, hgp said:

don't know about everyone else, but JW are constantly reminded, that we should love all people, even self declared enemies. And this works (within the bounds of human imperfection) for JW.

Oh yes but JWs are also taught to SHUN anyone that leaves the ORG.  Shunning their own children. Turning their teenage children out of the house. And they pretend tis is love. 

Oh dear not that lie about 1914 again !!!!! @JW Insider Waht do you think ? 

On 6/11/2021 at 10:04 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

I get it that some people dislike reading, and I have no issue with it.

But usually such ones are modest enough to know that lack impedes their ability to take a lead role in a debate forum.

So you disagree with the scripture I quoted then ?

And I disagree with your second sentance when the debate is or should be Bible based. 

The Apostles didn't even have the bible / full scriptures, although they had something much better as they were inspired by God's Holy Spirit.

But I cannot quite figure out how you or other JWs can be 'no part of the world' when you and others rely so much upon the writings of 'worldly' people. The words in books, other than the Bible, are just people's opinions or a person's version of 'the facts'. If you are so easily swayed by the opinions of this 'world' then you cannot be 'no part of this world'. Why ? Because those worldly opinions have an affect on your life which causes you to think or act in harmony with them instead of in harmony wtih God's word and Jesus' direction. 

21 hours ago, xero said:

Conforming non-conformists make a big deal about individuality, actual non-conformists don't.

"stop being molded by this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over, so that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God." - Romans 12:2

I make no fuss about individuality. It is the GB that does not allow it. 

However I do make known the faults of your bosses the GB and their 'policemen' elders. 

The suit and tie thing IS actually part of this world. And it's part of the reasoning from Jesus about washing the inside of the dish as well as the outside. Remember how the Jewish religious leaders would look clean on the outside, and so it is with the JW Org, all about outward appearance even though the Org is immoral. All the JW CSA pedophiles would have dressed smart to please the Org. 

20 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nathanial Hawthorne is a writer who wrote some books. It is another example of my LISTENING to MEN.

Do you spend all your time sitting reading books ?  

Maybe you should take note of scripture instead. Ecclesaistes 12 : 11 through 14. 

The words of the wise are like oxgoads, and their collected sayings are like firmly embedded nails; they have been given from one shepherd. ¹²  As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh.¹³  The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole obligation of man. ¹⁴  For the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad.

13 hours ago, Anna said:

Nah.....according to the last WT study it's a suit of armor

Yes I read that one online. Putting on the complete suit of armour. 

I don't think Jesus was mentioned once but of course the Organisaton was mentioned. 

On 6/10/2021 at 5:13 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

“It is remarkable, that persons who speculate the most boldly often conform with the most perfect quietude to the external regulations of society.” Nathanial Hawthorne 

I've no idea what your message is here but I do not know anyone other that JWs that demand that i wear a suit and tie everywhere I go. 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

People also come from very diverse backgrounds with tattoos allover, tattoos in their hair and previously had no sense of what is decent or common..

Reminds me of something an Elder once told me. He and his wife were hippies before becoming JWs, and he had long hair and his wife wore miniskirts. They were invited to a Memorial and that was how they were when they attended. He said, all the brothers were in suits and ties and all the sisters were in long dresses or long skirts, and he said they just felt terrible. But everyone there welcomed them just as they were.... So yes there is a balance to be met, and as you say diverse backgrounds mean diverse tastes

21 hours ago, Anna said:

They are not ordering anyone on how to dress, they merely remind them of scriptures such as: 1 Tim 2:9 and 1 Pet 3:4

Oh I didn't know they mentioned wearing a suit and tie in the scriptures. The Elders really did kick off at me when i used to attend meetings in an open neck shirt and no jacket in the heat of the summer. The summer weather that God himself created for our enjoyment, but by rules of men, people are made to suffer. 

The point of it all is the challenge / disagreement / confict / proving of,  the point that Humans need God's direction and help to be able to live, share, enjoy, appreciate and cherish life on this beautiful planet Earth. 

The challenge came from Satan the Devil and God is now answering that challenge. 

The proof is already there that humans cannot do it alone, and God, through Christ, has proven that humans can remain obedient and loyal to God by being helped by God's Holy Spirit. 

One does not have to be living in a 'Christian pigeonhole' that has the JW stamp on it, to know that God has a plan of action to 'bring to ruin those ruining this Earth'. But one does have to try to serve God through Jesus Christ to be able to look toward the reward of life here in a 'new world' here on Earth. 

So the point of life right now is to do your best to prove God right, and to try to live a Christian life in as many ways as possible. But that does not mean obeying the rules of men, it means obeying the rules from God through Christ as best you can. Those rules are written in the Bible and can be understood by most people... The deeper things in God's word though, are for the True Anointed remnant, who will be made known before the Judgement arrives. 

Wow ! GB inspired conversation going on here.  Hate on people with hair or beards.

Discriminate between black and white where hair or beards are concerned. 

Wow. This is really showing the thoughts of pretend Elders and other pretend servants of God. 

Grow up, get a life, and let ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE COME TO GOD THROUGH CHRIST. 

Once those people have found God through Chrsit, then THEIR OWN conscience will give them guidance as to how to wear their hair or beard or no beard. 

One way that the GB / Elders / JWs make a very big mistake is, to give orders to people on how to dress etc.

A true Christian will know that service to God through Christ comes from 'inside' a person's heart and mind, not from obeying orders from domineering 'overlords'. 

14 hours ago, BroRando said:

nor do we need to worry about losing our Kingdom Halls. We worship Jehovah with spirit and truth. (John 4:24)

This is so funny Rambo.. Losing KHs   They have just built Warwick and now they are going to build Ramapo. So they obviously don't think Armageddon is very close. 

Worship with spirit and truth ???  You are having a laugh. The GB only worship themselves and their multi-organisations which have $$$$ and real estate.. It's all for show. 

Rambo you write so well and sound so serious, but you tell lies just like your Leaders. 

On 5/31/2021 at 6:15 PM, hgp said:

Just trying to understand where you come from: were you sexually abused yourself? Or someone in your family?

I have empathy / sympathy for those who were sexually abused as children, and for those still being abused.. And I believe it hasn't stopped happening in the JW Org. In my opinion the GB and their lawyers are just being more sly in how they handle it.  It seems too that Elders are still using the Clergy Penitent Privilege to hide Pedophiles in the congregations. Perhaps many of those pedophiles are actually Elders themselves.  So much has become known now that it is clear to see how immoral and dishonest the GB and their organisations are. 

Will it be a time of cleansing ? Or, will it be a time of destruction ?  Who knows ?  One thing is for sure, the  W/t & JW Org is not being run by True Anointed ones right now.

https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20210527/trial-scheduled-for-jehovahs-witnesses-elders-accused-of-failing-to-report-sexual-abuse

Two Jehovah's Witnesses elders accused of failing to notify police that a congregant was sexually abusing a child are scheduled for a joint trial in July.

Jehovah's Witnesses elder Michael Penkava, 72, of Crystal Lake, and Colin Scott, 87, of Cary, were charged in November with violating reporting provisions. Both men are accused of failing to notify police about a church member who later was convicted of sexually abusing a child.

The abuse continued for more than a decade after the church elders became aware of the accusations, prosecutors have said.

A judge on Wednesday denied a request to exclude testimony regarding potentially "confidential" meetings between church leaders and the now-convicted man.

The charges against Scott and Penkava are rooted in another man's sexual assault conviction. Accusations against that man, 43-year-old church member Arturo Hernandez-Pedraza, surfaced during a confessional or spiritual guidance setting, according to Prossnitz and attorney Terry Ekl, who represents Scott.

In 2019, a jury convicted Hernandez-Pedraza of all counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse, predatory criminal sexual assault, criminal sexual assault, criminal sexual abuse, sexual relations within families and domestic battery charges filed against him.

He is serving a 45-year prison sentence at Pontiac Correctional Center.

Penkava invoked his right as a religious leader to not testify at Hernandez-Pedraza's trial, but he still was required to answer questions about actions the congregation took after learning of the sexual abuse more than 10 years before it was reported.

Because the accusations surfaced during a confessional, Penkava and Scott's attorneys now argue the disclosure should be considered privileged communication between faith leaders and congregants.

Assistant McHenry County State's Attorney Ashur Youash, however, said that privilege doesn't extend to situations involving abused or neglected children and isn't grounds for failure to report.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

They are still hiding behind the clergy privilege thing, so no lessons have been learnt. The GB and others in control, and the Elders are still more interested in the 'face of the Org' and in saving money, than they are in the congregation. 

Does God and Jesus really approve of this ? No of course not.

On 5/30/2021 at 6:03 PM, hgp said:

Even imagining these accusations to be one hundred true, can any sane person say, that this is in the least comparable to flying planes into the WTC?

YES CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE IN THE JW ORG IS COMPLETELY COMPARABLE TO TERROISM. BUT TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU IT IS JUST COLLATERAL DAMAGE. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

First of all, it was Paul who said that, you dodo, not Jesus.

You are correct. My mistake, although you only used that to sidetrack from my comment about atrocities. 

And once again we have you, a pretend Christian, calling me names. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I wonder what it is they would be given by Holy Spirit to say in that hour? What sort of words would be given “as a witness to them?”

JWs would receive nothing by holy spirit, hence they use the Clergy Privilege excuse in court cases. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It all makes for a witness when you publicly expose a liar, and THAT is why you do it.

Then I fully hope that as many JWs, GB members et al, will be exposed as liars asap. Because that would be a true witness against false religious teachings and practices. 

On 5/28/2021 at 9:48 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

To make it fit, you must find a group that commits atrocities.

Would falsely predicting Armageddon on many occasions just to frighten people into the Orgs, and would stating that a person MUST BE a baptised JW to be saved, count toward atrocities ? 

Would deliberately misusing the Romans 13 scripture to give power and authority to the Leaders of the Orgs be classed as an atrocity ?

And would the Leaders giving orders to Elders, and the Elders obeying such orders, to keep CSA and known pedophiles information secret inside the JW Org, qualify as atrocities ? 

Well I think it would, especially to those people seriously affected by such actions. 

17 hours ago, Arauna said:

My reply is on record for all to see. Reasonable people will look, see and learn and they will then recognize the trolls, the hate-OCD personalities.

I need not reply to hate. Reasonableness and understanding of the law is needed.... and why theft laws are in place...... this is clear for all to see.  Whether these laws will be enforced with justice is another matter. The legal system in USA is crumbling. 

Reasonable people are not necessarily True Christians though, including the GB and their lawyers. However True Christians will know the words that Jesus spoke and that were recorded for use by the True Anointed ones. Even we, the 'little dogs', can gain some guidance from some basic scripture. 

Jesus said " For you expressed sympathy for those in prison and you accepted joyfully the plundering of your belongings, knowing that you yourselves have a better and an enduring possession." 

So whilst Arauna is worrying about man made 'theft laws', True Christians Earth wide are living by God's Laws through Jesus Christ. 

I just found this on JW Org.

What Does the Bible Say About Revenge?

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

of course they will not be happy about it.

It's not about being happy with it, it's about having a true Christian personality and being obedient to the words of God through Christ. And acting in harmony with the scriptures : 

Hebrews 10 : 32 though 34.

However, keep remembering the former days in which, after you were enlightened, you endured a great struggle along with sufferings. ³³  At times you were publicly exposed both to reproaches and to tribulations, and at times you shared with those who were having such an experience. ³⁴  For you expressed sympathy for those in prison and you accepted joyfully the plundering of your belongings, knowing that you yourselves have a better and an enduring possession.

So it seems that the GB should accept joyfully what is happening. But they have no true faith and therefore they will not be obedient to God. 

17 hours ago, Arauna said:

You do not understand law and the application of true justice.

But what you are deliberately avoiding is the fact that Jesus understood law and true justice BUT he said those words I quoted from Matthew.. Jesus did not say take them all to court and grab as much money as you can when you sue them. 

https://torrentfreak.com/watch-tower-ups-pressure-on-youtube-facebook-to-hand-over-infringers-details-210523/

After filing a lawsuit against the creator of the 'DubTown' Lego stop motion series, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, the supervising body and publisher for the Jehovah’s Witness religious group, has yet more alleged infringers in its sights. In addition to targeting more YouTube users, Watch Tower is attempting to find out the identities of people posting its songs to Facebook.

As the owner of various copyright-protected works, including many registered at the US Copyright Office, the group is allowed to send DMCA takedown notices to have content removed from online platforms. As the law requires, platforms like YouTube comply with these requests but it appears that is just not enough for Watch Tower.

As reported last weekend, an individual who created a series of stop-motion Lego animations is currently being sued by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. ‘Kevin McFree’ was first targeted in 2018 via a DMCA subpoena but with that legal process stalled, Watch Tower filed a full-blown copyright infringement lawsuit.

McFree (not his/her real name) is currently proceeding as a John Doe, since the earlier DMCA subpoena failed to uncover the animator’s real identity after Watch Tower met resistance from McFree’s lawyer. However, DMCA subpoenas – which do not necessarily require oversight from a judge – can prove a useful tool in obtaining people’s real names and addresses.

While this is a problem for alleged copyright infringers in any matter (such as those that involve copyright trolls), in Watch Tower related cases there is a chance that once identified, people who are current members (or have family members still in the church) could face much broader social consequences. As a result, staying anonymous carries additional importance.

Watch Tower Files a New Wave of DMCA Subpoenas

Watch Tower is no stranger to filing for DMCA subpoenas to compel YouTube to hand over the details of alleged infringers, and these can sometimes get quite messy. This week, however, Watch Tower appears to be increasing the pressure significantly.

In a wave of DMCA subpoenas targeting YouTube and also Facebook, the religious group is hoping to find out the real identities of people who uploaded Jehovah’s Witness content to the platforms. At least as far as the evidence provided reveals, none are serial infringers or mass uploaders.

In all cases, Watch Tower appears to have identified either a single upload on YouTube or Facebook, which were previously tackled by sending DMCA notices to the relevant platforms, targeting the specific content, which was removed.

Demands for All Subscriber Information

In all four cases, either YouTube or Facebook are asked to hand over “all identifying information, including subscriber registration information” including their “name(s), address(es), telephone number(s), [and] any electronic mail addresses” associated with the allegedly infringing accounts.

Since the content has already been subjected to takedown requests, preventing ongoing infringement doesn’t appear to be a key issue. However, since Watch Tower wants to personally identify the people in question, it is possible that it will seek to communicate with them directly. What shape those conversations will take is unknown but there could be additional consequences if the group can link the alleged infringers or their family members directly to the church.

And of course, as the lawsuit against Kevin McFree shows, there is also the possibility of a full-blown copyright infringement lawsuit, which at least carries the potential for up to $150,000 in statutory damages, if guilt is proven. Either way, if the people can be identified there is no good outcome.

The DMCA subpoena applications and supporting documents can be found below:

1. YouTube (Subpoena 1) (1,2)
2. YouTube (Subpoena 2) (1,2)
3. Facebook (Subpoena 1) (1,2)
4. Facebook (Subpoena 2) (1,2)

Matthew  5 : 38 through 45

 “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ ³⁹  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. ⁴⁰  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment; ⁴¹  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. ⁴²  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.⁴³  “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ ⁴⁴  However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.

And the GB and their lawyers continue to disobey Christ, because the GB love money and power more than they love God.