Patiently waiting for Truth

17 hours ago, Arauna said:

I do not have time for your trolling.  I do not pretend - I know!!!

 

Please inform which religions believe that Jesus put his SOUL in death...."The soul that sinneth it shall die".  Jesus only received immortality AFTER he was raised up. It was a reward for his faithfulness.

You are well trained by your GB. They would be proud of using you the way they do. How does it feel to be used by men ? Men that have turned their backs on God and Christ. Men that guess at dates and times. Men that 'tread on' the True Anointed ones. And you swallow their every word and worship those men. 

What exactly do you think a 'soul' is ? The soul is the actual person, the human being, not a seperate item. 

I don't think Almighty God was thinking about the life expectancy of 'The Word' when God created ' The Word'.  When 'The Word' = Christ was working alongside his Father it was a long way before the creation of Adam, so I wouldn't think God was 'working on' the immortality of Christ. There would have been no need for it. Death wasn't even happening until life was created here on Earth. 

Once again I say, some people do try their best to complicate matters, and to try to stumble others, don't you ? 

It would look like you are the troll here trying to cause complications. 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

The questionnaire above is in line with the teaching that the soul of Jesus was not immortal before his death - so he really died completely.  He did not exist for 3 days.  please confirm which other Christian religions believe this? According to you it must be a looooong list. If you do not understand the ransom - then you are not saved - period.

So are you trying to pretend that only JWs understand the ransom ?  If the first man Adam was created and 'came to be a living soul' or living 'being', then it follows that Jesus also 'came to be a living soul' or 'living being'.  But you metion 'the soul of Jesus' as if it was a seperate thing. 

I understand that each human must have a 'life source' and that the 'life source' would return to God when the human dies, but that is not a 'soul'. It is not a seperate living spirit that lives on. 

However, in my opinion, people that consider themselves very 'intelligent' or ' more intelligent than others ', tend to over complicate matters.  Jesus was human and the main difference was that he was the perfect human. He died as a human and was resurrected as a spirit. He appeared in 'human form' after his resurrection, to prove to people that he had been resurrected, and probably so as not to frighten them. 

If Jesus didn't die completely then the ransom would not have been paid. It was only with his death as the perfect human that he paid the perfect price. But it does not take being a JW to know that. I knew that at twelve years old, long before I knew anything about JWs. 

As for your last sentence, perhaps you should rethink it. You sound as if you are commiting a lot of people to death. 

On 5/8/2021 at 3:58 AM, Arauna said:

You seem to think you know it all. If you do not know how JWs compare with other religions then you have no right to critisize like you are an expert on religion.

I've given the answer a hundred times already. Do not compare the JW religion with the 'world'. Compare the JW religion with God's words in the Bible, and compare it with the instruction from Jesus Christ and the Apostles who WERE inspired by God's Holy Spirit... 

It is sooooooooooo cowardly to compare the W/t, CCJW, JW Org, with something you already know is wicked. 

And what you and others don't like is, that i admit that i do not know it all. Hence my new AKA. 

As for your questionaire, no thanks. I don't need to prove to others that I have a strong faith in God through Christ based on accurate knowledge. God allows me to understand enough from His word to give me faith in Him, but I don't expect to have the full knowledge that is for the True Anointed ones. 

On 5/8/2021 at 6:17 AM, César Chávez said:

Were "all" Israelites prefect in God's eyes, that, Spiritual Israel has to? When did God and Christ demand, perfection?

The words of JESUS recorded at Matthew 5:48, and Jesus did his Father's will, so this is God's instruction. 

New Living Translation
But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

English Standard Version
You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Berean Study Bible
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Berean Literal Bible
You shall be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect.

King James Bible
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

New King James Version
Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore you shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
 

OK, can you read that ok ?  It is scripture you know. Do you understand scripture ? 

22 hours ago, WyattEarp said:

In one hand, you have corrupt regimes like China, Iran, Russia. Does this mean, people should allow those nations to “kill” or “enslave” their people? Under, scripture, it would appear the answer would be, yes! Romans 13:1-7, Context: Submission to Governing Authorities

How about nations that are causing genocide and crimes against humanity, like certain countries in Africa, North Korea, and certain central American Nations, Venezuela?

All this mentioned here surely relates to the 'Critical times hard to deal with'  and 'the last days' of Satan's system.

So if you believe that, why fight against it ? Doesn't scripture say 'Raise you head up for your deliverence is near' ? 

Why are people fighting against the things that Almighty God and Christ are allowing to happen ?  

Isn't it a bit like going through surgery / an opperation, but knowing that it is all for the best in the end. 

Isn't God's will taking place through this wickedness ?  Isn't this all part of God's plan ? 

True Christians have the hope of the resurrection and the hope of a 'new life' either in heaven or here on Earth. 

The W/t, CCJW, JW org will surely fall as all business religions will. BUT true Christians will survive either through Armageddon or in the resurrection. 

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

 

Answer the list of questions I posted on the other thread and then we talk again.......Also -have you studied any other religions such as islam, hinduism, etc?

Why would i study anti-Christian religions ? And I haven't seen the questions as yet. 

@WyattEarp = Billy the Kid = CC. You accuse @Witness of things but show no proof.

However, This Christian also implicates God as a liar. Therefore, God’s words should be invalid by “witness” standards since it contradicts scripture and God. Ironically, by the same means, she has advocated in the past at every turn of her arguments. Do NOT follow, men! Follow Her! A Woman, instead 

 So WE / BtK / CC show us exacty where @Witness implicates God as a liar AND show us exactly where @Witness says follow her.  

@Witness has never said people should go to war. That was JTR that said war was not murder. 

WT, using one more aka does you no good at all. You are still a trouble maker that twists people's comments. A bit like TTH.

Read the instruction from Jesus recorded at Matthew 5 : 38 through 45

 “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a ³⁹  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b ⁴⁰  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c ⁴¹  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. ⁴²  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.d⁴³  “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbore and hate your enemy.’ ⁴⁴  However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemiesf and to pray for those who persecute you,g ⁴⁵  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens,h since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.

This instruction was given to those followers of Jesus that were to become Anointed ones, as verse 45 shows. Also verse 48 proves the point.

 You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

However, some of you believe that it applies to everyone, so why don'tyou live by it ? And if you believe your GB are anointed then why don't they live by it ? 

Jesus words were direct 

Do not resist the one who is wicked,  Give to the one asking you, Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you.

I don't see it mentioning suing people for using a song or for uploading videos. I don't see it mentioning using dishonest lawyers to tell lies in court rooms. I don't see it mentioning resisting the payment of compensation for CSA commited by pedophile Elders and M/s.

Oh how your GB are turning their backs on God and Christ, just to keep their own power over people, and to keep that idol W/t / JW Org running. 

14 hours ago, BroRando said:

What the Jehovah’s Witnesses defend is the right to live differently, in this world, yet part of a kingdom “not of this world,” as Jesus says in John 18:36. Are our societies prepared to tolerate those who live in a way different from the majority’s, as long as they are peaceful, honest, and law-abiding citizens? That the answer is “no” in an increasing number of countries proves that our world is becoming a dangerous environment for religious liberty.

But JWs are not law abiding in every way. The GB use their Lawyers to tell lies in court rooms and to defend Pedophiles in the W/t, CCJW, JWOrg.  The GB hide a 25 year Pedophile database that is protecting Pedophiles in the USA.  The GB / JW Org was refusing to pay compensation to Victims of CSA in Australia until the W/t was threatened with losing it's Tax relief.  The W/t / GB gets voluteers to build Kingdom Halls at no labour costs, then the W/t /GB sells off those Kingdom Halls for gross profit. The GB / W/t moves cash 'offshore' to hide it. The GB / W/t has now taken over the 'ownership' of ALL Kingdom Halls worldwide so that congregations have no collateral when being sued for CSA.

The GB / W/t are greedy and dishonest, and have no real love for God or Christ or people. 

On 5/6/2021 at 7:28 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

“

I am only interested in the CSA within the W/t, CCJW, JW Org, and their other orgs / titles.  The reason being that the GB et al keep spouting that 'God and Christ trust them' and that JWs have the ONLY true religion / way of serving God.”

Yes the GB do keep spouting that God and Christ trust them and the GB et al do keep spouting that JWs have the only true religion 

But neither of their spoutings are true, and the CSA in those orgs is part of the proof of it. So why should I pretend otherwise ? 

It seems as if @xero has found proof that even the name used for the Org isn't true either. 

On 5/6/2021 at 7:28 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

and several others all want what you want—the destruction of the JW organization.

You are so wrong about me Tom. In truth what i want is the complete destruction of ALL false Religions. I want all the lies about Almighty God and Jesus Christ to stop. I want all the guesswork about 'the time of the end' to stop too. I want men to stop pretending that they know truth, when in fact they don't. 

I want an Earthwide group of honest people serving God through Christ, led by the True Anointed ones that are prophesied about in God's word (the JEW),  that will admit when they do not have all the answers, and will wait on God through Christ for Holy Spirit to direct them. 

On 5/6/2021 at 7:28 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Oh, come now! It is not possible for anyone to be so obtuse! 

So, explain to me your meaning of this word obtuse. Yes of course I know what it really means, (from the Latin word obtusus )  but I want to know what YOU mean by it ??? It's like I've said before Americans have a weird way with words and thinking. It just brings us back to 'The Emperor's New Clothes', people not believing your every word Tom. 

19 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You consistently wear such a huge “Kick Me” sign on your behind that I find it hard to resist.

Ah ha ! You should use that to describe the GB of your many 'orgs'.  Or, in fact to describe all the leaders, past and present, of your W/t CCJW JW Org et al.   But the reason you use it on me is because you are full of hate. Hate for me and hate for truth.

Keep quoting your lady friend if it makes you happy. You seem hung up on her.

I'm laughing at your weak way of playing the Emperor's New Clothes idea. Your way of thinking is, if a person doesn't agree with everything you say then you just say that person is stupid. But the things you say are so weak and false.

I remember being told that watching or reading wicked things in like a bullet going through your head. You are letting that wickedness pass through your brain just like a bullet would, and the damage it does is tremendous. Well it seems by all the worldly things you quote that you are letting a lot of worldly / wicked things pass through you brain, and, the damage it is doing to you can be easily noticed in the words you write. 

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What I have done is reported your words. I added nothing. I took away nothing. They confirm just what Holly Folk said. 

There is no concern here whatsoever for children. Otherwise you would be interested in it outside the JWs (because that’s where almost all of it is). The reason you care only obout CSA within JWs is that they claim to be the only true religion.

Quite clearly, it is religious hate that motivates you, and you are using child abuse victims, victimizing them all over again, to pursue that hate.

You are showing yourself up here Tom. Showing your desperation. I've explained it all very clearly so that anyone that really wants to understand will do so.

I hate what God and Christ hates, and that is to hate hypocrisy, lies, deceit and to hate the words of dishonest greedy men, which your GB are. 

And you know that the CSA is only one problem within the W/t and JW Orgs (plural). But God through Christ will have a True Anointed and true 'earthly' Christians before Armageddon.  

Luke 8 : 17.          Luke 17 : 1 & 2. 

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

4Jah (who for some inane reason, has changed his name—perhaps because “jah” now offends him)

I gave my exact reason for my name change. Thanks to @xero for a link to an article about God's name, and to @César Chávez for jolting my conscience on the matter.  But you Tom seem to need to dig at me for any reason.

And when a lawyer posts specific information about cases that could be verified, it is not trolling. Yes they are after business just as you are.

Oh look tom must be trolling on his every comment because he is advertising his ebooks.  

20 hours ago, Pudgy said:

You know ... if watching James Bond flix are immoral. perhaps reading about a man would slaughter people all day long, in hand-to hand combat, year after year, in great quantities, then cut off the ends of their penises, and present them to his wife in a big box, is equally something that reading about is immoral. A man also guilty of premeditated 1st degree murder, and adultery.

... and of course, I am taking about King David

Yes, maybe the GB / W/t Leaders spent too much time reading about it and it perverted their minds. 

On 5/5/2021 at 10:12 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Is it possible for you not to notice that you exactly validate what she says?

So because I don't hang on to every word of certain women that seem important in your eyes, what does that prove ?  Am i supposed to see those women as important ? I don't think so. You moan at @Witness because she is female and she says she is anointed. Yet you hang on the words of women that don't seem at all spiritual. 

You like those women and what they say because they 'serve your purpose' Tom. 

On 5/5/2021 at 10:12 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

It is just as she says. If you actually cared about children, you would be interested in CSA outside the “W/t, CCJW, JW Org, and their other orgs / titles,” because that’s where almost all of it is. Carrying on as though children mattered to you—it is all a ruse! 

Tom, you are really making yourself look stupid here. You are desperately hanging  on the words of 'worldly' women. 

You and i both know there is nothing that we can do to solve the problems of this wicked world. But you and I both know that God through Christ will have a clean 'group of people' serving in an honest and clean way, before Armageddon. 

Now it's like you have said before the JW 'boots on the ground' congregants seem to be the closest group of people to serving God properly. Hence that group or people need to be as honest and clean as possible. But that is of no use if the leadership is rotten and immoral. So if you really wanted to understand me you would know that I don't hate the millions of congregants of the JW 'group of people', I just want the 'Org' to be cleaned up and led by True Anointed ones. 

On 5/5/2021 at 10:12 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

On 5/5/2021 at 5:25 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The reason being that the GB et al keep spouting that 'God and Christ trust them' and that JWs have the ONLY true religion / way of serving God. 

Translation: Witnesses say they are the one true religion.

It has nothing to do with children! It has everything to do with your own bigoted vendetta, exactly as Holly Folk said. 

    , You have twisted my words because you don't like the truth

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9545969/Jehovahs-Witnesses-criticised-failing-stop-devout-followers-plan-stab-wife-49-times.html

Coroner blasts Jehovah's Witnesses for failing to stop 82-year-old man killing his wife, 80, after he told church elder that he was planning to stab her to death

• Ronald Mowbray, 82, from Warwickshire, stabbed his wife 49 times last February
• Pensioner had previously told a church elder that he planned to knife Ann, 80
• An official investigation into the devout religious couple was launched last year
• Warwickshire County Coroner slammed lack of action from Jehovah's Witnesses

A coroner has slammed the lack of action from Jehovah's Witnesses who did not stop a devout follower's frenzied attack on his wife. 

Ronald Mowbray, 82, from Studley, Warwickshire, stabbed his wife Ann a total of 49 times as she slept in bed.

A devout Jehovah's Witness, Mowbray was arrested at the couple's village home following the attack last February. 

Very sad and strange story. 

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He can corkscrew jump a river in an AMC Rambler. Can you do that?

Would I even want to do that ? NO.  But if it pleases your mind to see such rubbish so be it. 

you Americans are strange folks  

Changed from 4jah2me to Patiently waiting for Truth.   It seems more fitting as I am sure Jah is not God's real name. 

I have changed my name from 4jah2me to Patiently waiting for Truth. 

Nothing hidden, just a name change. 

On 5/4/2021 at 6:38 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

And she is not so ridiculous as you—she does not drink the Kool-Aid as do you—to think that it is on account of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Tom, this is the kind of stuff that makes you look a tad stupid.  In plain words what is this sentence of yours supposed to mean ?  You seem to be pretending, that i think JWs cause all CSA around the world. But in honesty you know that isn't true.  I am only interested in the CSA within the W/t, CCJW, JW Org, and their other orgs / titles.  The reason being that the GB et al keep spouting that 'God and Christ trust them' and that JWs have the ONLY true religion / way of serving God. 

On 5/4/2021 at 6:38 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

This is why you don’t know anything about anything.

And you think I will learn anything of the real TRUTH by listening to pop stars, movie queens, or politicians. 

On 5/4/2021 at 6:38 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

You read only what feeds into what you already think.

That is just your emotions speaking Tom.  Actually I mainly read instruction manuals about motor vehicles as that is where my main practical interests are. Motor vehicles don't tell lies and if your treat them well they serve well.  

On 5/4/2021 at 6:38 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

With every person she knows abused as a chid, this tells us nothing of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Is this even slightly important ?  Who is she that you have started to worship her ?  I have no interest in her.  Are you now looking for people that haven't been sexually abused by JWs ? 

On 5/4/2021 at 6:38 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

I like that Billie Eilish just puts it out there plainly, without spin. She does not deceitfully try to work the facts so as to take out her enemy. (if she has one)

Wow you seem desperate to find someone to cling on to. Is she your voice in the darkness ?  Are you saying that JW CSA victims are 'deceitfully trying to take out their enemy' ?  Um, that reminds me of a song "Where is the love". 

On 5/4/2021 at 6:38 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

It is just as Holly Folk says. There are poeple who feign interest in victims of child abuse in pursuit of what, for them, is a much greater goal.

Wow and another female 'star' of yours. You seem to love these ladies. People of the world that normally JWs would not give attention to. You certainly do pick up on those people that, to quote you "You read only what feeds into what you already think." 

And I have no interest in James Bond either. Sex, murder and violence on film, is that really your thing Tom ? 

No wonder you have no empathy or sympathy for CSA victims if you spend time watching such films.  That type of movie dulls the brain and kills the love one should have for others. 

On 5/4/2021 at 6:15 AM, César Chávez said:

Hmm! Your tag says 4jah2me. Which God are you worshiping, idiot! That's the point. God has a personal name. It shouldn't be used in this cesspool place, but in honor.

Yes you win on that one. I needed a name in a hurry and that old brainwashing just took over. I should change it really. 

17 hours ago, xero said:

https://www.academia.edu/36888818/PART_ONE_The_Tetragram_in_Hebrew_Sources_in_BCE_and_the_First_Century_CE?email_work_card=view-paper

Ye Ho Wa    YHWH. Um, but is it just the words of men or are they inspired of God's Holy Spirit ? 

Whichever, it is not Jehovah is it ?  No J, no V.   Yehowa, maybe  

On 5/3/2021 at 9:10 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Here’s the latest from Billie Eilish, the newest singing sensation, who until recently dressed like a sack of potatoes and wore her hair green:

Do you actually read this stuff ?  and you let it affect your mind 

@WyattEarp aka Billy the Kid etc etc etc... so funny. 

@TrueTomHarley still comparing the W/t / CCJW / JW Org to the rest of the world, instead of comparing them to GOD'S STANDARDS. 

Yes of course we know how bad Satan's wicked world is. We've answered all this argument before. BUT what you people are proving is, that all the JW Orgs (plural) are part of that same wicked world, because they are no better. 

As for Billy the Kid bringing up the history of the W/t, yes we know the Leaders of the Orgs kept records. Australian records going back 50 years it seems, but um, American records only going back 25 years ??? A hidden database....  BUT those leaders didn't remove the Pedophiles and didn't stop the child abuse. THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN IN COURT ROOMS AROUND THE EARTH.

Australia, America, Canada, UK, Netherlands, all have proof of CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE within the JW community including abuse committed by Elders and Ministerial Servants. Many of those pedophiles were allowed to stay in the congregations, OR, were quickly reinstated to the same congregation or deliberately moved to a different congregation where their CSA wasn't know about. 

You JWs being in denial and deliberately blinding yourselves, does no good to anyone. And, by saying the 'rest of the world' is worse, does not make the W/t, CCJW, JW Orgs and GB, better in God's eyes. We all know that God and Christ hate hypocrisy and lies, and coverups. 

The problem will remain until every JW admits that it was horrendous that CSA was so deeply hidden by the Leaders of the W/t JW Orgs, and so deeply hidden by all the Elders responsible for caring for the congregations. 

Because whilst there is still this denial by JWs then there is still the hardness of your hearts too. 

But Luke 8 v 17 says it all really 

¹⁷ For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

it’s hard to know whose venom is worse—that of 4Jah or Witness.

It hard to know if tom has lost his common sense when he calls truth venom.

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

because while 4Jah loathes the GB because he loathes them

I loathe them for disobeying Almighty God and Jesus Christ, and for misleading thousands of people. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The “sins” of the Christian organization, as seen in the brief above, are actually quite mild,

What complete rubbish this is. Only mild when compared to the rest of the world. NOT mild when compared to God's standards. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Yet she and 4Jah storm against them

What an over reaction tom. you do make yourself appear silly here. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Is it not an inescapable conclusion that she would be cheering the persecution of Christians in Nero’s Rome?

Unnecessary accusation here.  Shows you being over emotional Tom. The Early Christians were not JWs Tom, those early Christians served God through Christ, not through any other organisation. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What nasty pieces of work they are.

More unnecessary emotion. You should maybe be a politician. You seem to enjoy twisting the truth about everything. 

Your GB have set themselves up as 'kings' above all other people on this earth.

Your GB pretend that 'God and Christ trust them'.  Your GB give themselves the title of 'Faithful and discreet slave'.

But you Tom, you continue to sere that GB blindly. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It may be that I should have posted this topic in an area closed off from enemies of the Witnesses.

Oh dear Tom, do you really think people will fall for this ?  You deliberately put it in the Open Club. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

They’ve come up with very little.

In your eyes only. Because God is allowing your eyes to be blinded.

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is stated with such vitriol

No Tom, it is actually written quite calmly and sensibly. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

4Jah raises just one topic. It is the one he always raises

Wrong again. I mentioned a few points. One being that the GB dominate the true Anointed.  And the point about military service was because you said that JW always obeyed the laws of the lands. 

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

then adds her usual goobledigook incomprehensible to anyone but her

Here you pretend to not understand what @Witness has written. So you prove yourself a liar. 

Then you move on to compare the GB / W/t / JW Orgs (plural) to the rest of the world. A bit like me comparing myself to a murderer or bank robber. Well I'm not as bad as they are . You are so childish in this respect, you actually expect people to fall for it.