Patiently waiting for Truth

18 hours ago, xero said:

All joking aside, I just don't see how it can get done unless you have an organization w/resources and a world-wide reach. This means you have to get serious not only about doctrine, but your methods of propagation. Too little attention to doctrine is an issue, as well as too little attention to its methods of propagation. Not saying anything specific means that you aren't serious, but that (being specific and serious) can land you in trouble as you overstep when you do say something specific.

Resources = books and magazines which are the words of men. Uninspired men.  When all that is needed in printed form or online is God's written word.  Television studio to make the GB and their lies famous. 

Doctrine = man made interpretations and rules by the GB who are not inspired. 

being specific = pretending to know the day and the hour of Armageddon. Pretending the GB are the F&DS.  Telling the Anointed NOT to gather together.  Pretending that a person must be a baptised JW 'to be saved'. 

Like I've said before, it has now been proven that 'an organisaton' could have 'leaders' in many different countries and they could so easliy communicate via internet.  So the True Anointed could easily be based in, lets say, ten different countries. That way they would be more aware of 'world conditions' and what would be needed to really help people to come to know God properly. 

19 hours ago, xero said:

Right now the growth really appears to be in non-english speaking countries and in and among people who are much less privileged than those of us in the west. These are apparently quite happy w/the message they're receiving and it shows.

What you are politely saying here is that the less well educated are now being lied to and because they do no know any different they are accepting it.  There are people that 'happily accept' the lie that all dead people go to heaven too.  Lies are lies even if they make people happy. 

I had a weird thought and it probably means nothing but .......

Herod tried to kill Jesus : Matthew 2 v16.

 Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men. 

Obviously Herod was being used by the Devil.   So my thought was, Is the Devil using 'world wide' governments to kill off older people. Why ?

Because the True Anointed would probably be older people right now. So to discourage people from serving God properly, maybe the Devil removing the ones that could be used by God through Christ, is trying to cut off the source of truth. If the Devil can remove the Anointed ones then who would be the JEW that people would follow ?

Could the virus and the vaccine be part of the Devil's plan to remove the older Anointed ones ?  Yes it's a crazy thought i know. And i also know that God through Christ, can use anyone He pleases to use. 

13 hours ago, xero said:

It's not "click bate". It's "click bait".

You can't even get that right.

It worked !    

On 4/4/2021 at 12:33 PM, xero said:

f I interpret this as providing the necessary tools to "do God's will" and "finish God's work" then I'd say that the organization known as the WTBS run by the governing body has done this.

The only necessary tool is the Bible. Above that of course is God's guidance by Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ. Those that will be inspired of Holy Spirit are the True Anointed. 

Hence the WTBS / GB / JW Org, not being inspired of God's Holy Spirit through Christ, can only produce rotten food. 

On 4/4/2021 at 12:33 PM, xero said:

Now whether they are right or wrong as to the timing of the arrival of the master of the harvest or not is immaterial

Is it ?  Maybe they shouldn't even be guessing at dates. 

On 4/4/2021 at 12:33 PM, xero said:

The work is the preaching the good news of God's Kingdom and doing this world wide.

I'd say this organization has kept it's focus and knows it's mission.

Oh if only they had kept their focus, but then did they even have focus ? 

The GB have spent more time promoting themselves as the F&DS and pretending to know when Armageddon will arrive. And they have spent time producing horrific looking magazines to frighten people. Magazines with disgusting pictures on the covers. THAT is not preaching GOOD NEWS. That is preaching doom and gloom. 

On 4/4/2021 at 9:08 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Exactly. I have this is the metadata of TrueTom vs the Apostates:

Apostates of that time would “despise authority.” How could that become a problem unless there was authority? They loved “lawlessness.” How could that become a problem unless there was law? They favored acts of “brazen conduct,” had “eyes full of adultery,” and were “unable to desist from sin.” How could that become a problem unless there was someone to tell them that they could not carry on in that way? Not only is the nature of apostates revealed in the above Bible verses, but also the nature of the Christian organization. 

If apostates were huge in the first century, and they were, they should correspondingly be huge today. And they are. In our “apostates” we are validated. It is almost as though I am proud of ours.

What if modern day JWs had no apostates? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why?

More click bate but from Tom this time.  It's so funny. 

18 hours ago, xero said:

Ex JW's imagine they have some kind of monopoly on hating their religion or that they are unique in any manner. A quick look at reddit (type in "ex-whatever") and you'll find plenty of people who are complaining about their experiences. It makes me wonder what a 1st century reddit would look like in this regard.

None of these human experiences, of course argue against organization. It does argue for being selective and taking responsibility for one's choices.

Now I've been poking around and I found this group and see how these decide what's important for them.

https://thegospelofchrist.com/bible-study-curriculi

I also found this:

http://oldpaths.com/Archive/Davison/Roy/Allen/1940/apostasy.html#XII

Every group makes decisions as to who is faithful and who isn't.

W/o some earthly entity grouped together to a certain concerted end, nothing happens. As it so happens, Jehovah's Witnesses have been quite clear as to what their message is - One morning before I could say a word to a man outside a convenience store he said "I'm not interested in Jehovah's Kingdom". I was quite surprised at the clarity of his response and that he knew before I approached, the end I had in mind. So This is the end to which the earthly arm of God's organization exists as manifested among JW's and it's been quite clear.

**Musing again....I wonder what the ratio of introvert to apostate is?

I'm willing to bet there are more introverts among apostates.

Xero uses the same old record, just more click bate. So boring.  

18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

WTB&TS should probably be expanded to include CCJW, jw.org, etc.

Yes, just how many companies are there ?  They keep adding new ones, even real estate.. 

On 4/3/2021 at 12:50 PM, xero said:

I can't help but imagine a dog drinking greedily from a toilet when I make the mistake of actually unblocking one of your replies.

 

That's probably because you think sh-t, write sh-t and act like sh-t. So all you get is sh-t.   

But being part of that sewer it's not surprising you are that way. Live an immoral life in an immoral Org and that's the results you get for yourself. 

On 4/3/2021 at 9:58 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

No. As measured by the number of doors they have knocked on over the course of a lifetime, each one in order to present the good news of God. Some of your “true anointed” have barely knocked on any.

Mormons knock on a lot of doors too .  They teach lies as well. 

17 hours ago, xero said:

Which group is doing the best job in your view?

If so, then why not do your all to support it? In so doing there is no need to compromise your principles,or  your individual conscience if you understand properly how you must necessarily tolerate the idiosyncracies and readily perceptible deficiencies of the organization and those "taking the lead".

I know it's just click bate from you but I'm not busy so I'll chip in.

What you have written is a lie. Especially if a person chooses to be a JW. 

Firstly they get baptised into an Organisation by not following scripture. 

Secondly they learn or have learnt the words of men from books written by men. 

Thirdly they do ministry by teaching the words of men, not the words of God. 

Fourthly they stand at a cart / trolly distributing more words of men. Lies written in magazines or leaflets to mislead people.

Fifth they have to be part of pretending to know 'the day and the hour' of Armageddon. They have to frighten people to bring them into the Org.  

Sixth they have to keep the secrets about all the Child Sexual Abuse in the JW Org. They have to pretend that the Kingdom Hall is a safe place to be. 

And you pretend that people could still have a conscience ???????????????? 

On 3/31/2021 at 11:32 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

At least with him, I can see many decades of full-time service,

Full time service to other GB members and to a couple of Orgs W/t & JW. 

On 3/31/2021 at 7:43 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

It will show through when I begin offering True Anointed sweatshirts on my website.

It is a phrase completely of your own devising. Even your fellow yo-yos have not used it. The more you repeat it, with your expectations of how it comes along just in the nick of time to save the day, the more ridiculous it sounds. 

Don’t get me going on this. Already I can picture a fellow lounging on the beach, relaxing, enjoying himself through and through, not doing a thing, with the logo: “Chill, man, I’m waiting for the True Anointed.”

I have never heard anyone use the expression but you.

I use it to differentiate those who are Truly Anointed, from those that your GB say have 'mental illness' or those that maybe once were Anointed but have turned away from their calling ( including the GB).  

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 

JWs do not fret about these things as much as you may think. You are not the center of their universe.

If you want to leave a place of Bible education and religious unity for a place where any huckster might say anything, there is only so long your fellow congregation members will cry about it. They do not remember you as the One Who Flew Over the Cookoo’s nest. 

After all, it was not me who asked you about pedophilia/vs homosexuality in the scriptures, was it? Any JW could have put their finger on that information quickly. They would not be bamboozled by what bamboozled your son—gay “Christian” revisionists attempting to redefine scripture to back up their lifestyle. 

Does it bother you that you have put yourself in a place where scriptural answers are so intertwined with garbage that for all practical purposes they cannot be found? It doesn’t seem to. You kick the can down the road with expectations that the True Anointed will explain it all. That being the case, I don’t know why you ever expound upon anything. Just wait for the True Anointed to tell you what’s what.

“Then the Master said to the third slave, “and what have you been doing?” and the third slave replied, “Nothing! I was waiting for the True Anointed! What took you so long to send him?”

I don't know which bit of your comment to laugh at most really.

Watchtower / JW Orgs / GB have nothing to do with Bible education. They do book studies studying the words of the GB and their helpers, none of whom are inspired. As for going to any other place, that is in your dreams. You seem to be determined that I will be following someone else, whereas in truth i follow no human. 

As for pedophilia/vs homosexuality. I've never bothered researching for two reasons. 1. we are not under the Mosaic Law. 2. My Bible traineed conscience tells me that both pedophilia and homosexuality are wrong.  The topic was just a relaxing question to see if others had met with the idea.  (It was something different to write about).

Quote : Does it bother you that you have put yourself in a place where scriptural answers are so intertwined with garbage that for all practical purposes they cannot be found? It doesn’t seem to.

I am in this 'world' but i am not part of this 'world'.  Almighty God and Jesus Christ did not want to take us out of this 'world'.  Every day i read things and sometimes hear things which go completely against 'scriptural answers'. BUT I am not shaken. My faith in God through Christ is strong. Do you prefer to hide away ? Is your faith weak ?

And once again your jealousy of the True Anointed shows through.  Those True Anointed are the Body of Christ, tom. 

On 3/30/2021 at 1:00 AM, Pudgy said:

What is a JTR?

 

James Thomas Rook Jr. was a member of this forum.  He was possibly a JW but has some 'individual' ideas and a loss of self control. I did not know him well enough to state ay thing else. 

On 3/29/2021 at 4:48 PM, Anna said:

You are talking about JWtalk, and yes, I think he would get kicked out pretty soon.

Um, something new to look at then, if I'm bored. Of course I'd be 'good'. 

On 3/29/2021 at 4:45 PM, Anna said:

To the best of my knowledge it is. Of course if you consider JWI, TTH, Xero and me apostates then I guess in your over imaginative mind it is not...

Xero is in the private club ? Wow. And JWI has proven that Xero is not a present Elder. And Xero's comments are far from Christian. Yep, you guys have an intruder. 

On 3/28/2021 at 12:55 PM, xero said:

BTW, What's the point of resigning from an organization unless you recognize its authority? If it has no authority, you shouldn't have bothered resigning, you should simply have gone about your life as you see fit. Unless you were trying to evangelize others to a different opinion on the way out, though it's hard to see how that's particularly motivating. Unless, of course you published your manifesto online as to your reasons for doing so. Anyway, just thinking about all this. I never understood why people engaged in formally resigning unless this is just an odd sort of passive-aggressive cry for help. I've known three couples who bailed and they said nothing. No notes, no letters, just poof! Gone. People could surmise and guess, but each and every one of these apparently prepared in advance to move physically. Now that's something to respect. They made sure they were in a witness protection plan.

If i was a member of any club then found out it was immoral and wicked, then i would resign. It not only makes a statement of objecting to the immorality and wickedness, but it makes a complete break from that club / organisation. I accept that the Watchtower and JW organisations (plural) have given themselves fale authority, much like a dictatorship. 

I prayed to God through Christ before resigning, so my conscience was clear on the matter. 

I was able to tell a few brothers why i was leaving before it was announced from the platform. 

I was able to make a complete break, without pretending to just being 'inactive'.  

I had enough faith in God and Christ to be able to 'loose' the 120 'brothers/sisters' in the congregation without getting upset about it. 

And now, anyone i tell about the immorality and wickedness of the Watchtower / JW orgs, will know that i am not hypocritcal because i left as soon as I had proved to myself the seriouslness of the situation. 

And yes i have made statements online about the things I have learnt through doing my own research and through this forum. 

Of course JWs do not like my faith in God and Christ. JWs do not like my onging confidence in being able to 'survive' without the Org. JWs do not like that I continue to make known the sins of the GB, the Watchtower and the JW Orgs. 

And JWs do not like that i know the difference between serving God, and, serving Men.  And I will contiue to serve God. 

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

So, does this mean, first century teachings aren't for you? What are you doing, claiming to be a Christian, if you're NOT going to Follow Christ and Obey Gods Commandments?

You're just like the pharisees, that accepted "some" laws, some laws they made up as they went alone, and Christ they refused. You must be a descendant of a Pharisee. 😁

Billy you are most strange.  You must have just read that i wrote that I live by Bible principles based on Christ's words.

I also said that i don't live by the Mosaic Law, because I am not an Israelite.  So are you going to the temple to offer a bull in sacrife for your sins then ?  Do you live by the Mosaic Law ? 

By the way the Moasic Law is NOT first century teachings. You are so strange. 

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Two separate things. They are not the same.

Thank you Tom. That's great. Much appreciated. 

13 hours ago, xero said:

I think it's interesting that opposers never call to mind how David felt about taking action against King Saul, never mind his disposition, his character or his disobedience. He waited for Jehovah to deal w/Saul. Sure, he removed himself from the persecution directed at him by Saul for a time and perhaps some who have withdrawn mentally or physically (or both) because or real or imagined persecution have done the same, yet can any of these say that any elder tried to pin them to a wall with a spear or hunt them down to try to kill them?

Oh dear he drags us back into YE OLDE HEBREW SCRIPTURE again.  We ARE living in the time of Principles based on the teachings of Christ. WE ARE NOT ISRAELITES. 

And as for the other suggestion, You have no idea what some of us have suffered from Elders, no idea at all. 

But as @Witness constantly tells you, the Elders DO kill people spiritually, which is just as bad as killing physically.  

If you add the belief of your GB, that ONLY BAPTISED JWs WILL BE SAVED. Then disfellowshipping for false reasons is killing a person. And that is what the JW Elders do. 

13 hours ago, xero said:

You don't need that. You just need to obey. Jesus is the head of the congregation. He is the one who will remove the lampstand of any congregation not submissive to him. Until then you have to find an organization, claim this one as the one God is using and directing by Christ Jesus and then submit to the theocratic order required.

Just read this. Just listen to the ORDERS BEING GIVEN, the DICTATORSHIP.  Who does this man think he is ? 

I do wish that those people obsessed with AN ORGANISATION, would tell me, in chronological order, which Organisations Almighty God was using from the year 100 through to the year 1850. 

All complete names of ALL the organisations, with dates from and to, please.  I look forward to your thorough reply, because you people seem to be so confident that you have these answers. 

12 hours ago, xero said:

4Jah - You're clearly confusing your emotions w/a functioning conscience. Don't burn incense to your inner light. You don't know if the light that in you is darkness or light unless you subject it to the true light of scripture. The true light of scripture makes it clear (unless you reject Hebrews among other books) that God has and uses organization, that he delegates authority to humans in these organizations and that one must be submissive and obedient to those taking the lead. It doesn't say you'll like it. In fact the scriptures suggest the opposite. Discipline isn't fun, but it's useful.

Your job is to determine which organization you are going to be submissive to. You can't go it alone. Not scripturally.

Spoken like a true Ex Elder xero.  Keep trying and you may convince yourself that you are right. 

My conscience was functioning very well when I 'resigned' from JW Org. The 'light of scripture' tells me that the Watchtower / GB / JW Org, are all serving the Devil right now.  I say serving the Devil because the Org teaches that no one can sit on the fence. An Elder keeps phoning my wife and telling her that. So, as the GB / Orgs are not serving God properly, they must be serving the Devil.

I don't reject any Bible book, I just know that most of the Hebrew is history that was important to the Jews, but Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 C.E. and that proved God's rejection of the Nation of Israel, and Christians live by Christ's teachings and the writings of the Apostles which were inspired by God's Holy spirit. 

You keep PRETENDING that organisation is the same as AN Organisation.  People can be organised without being AN Organisation.  You do know that RUSSELL, the very man that started the Watchtower, said people do NOT need and Organiton. 

I think the Pope says that God delegates authority to him.  Your GB also pretend that God delegates authority to them.  .   Saying it does not prove it to be true. 

You love to 'tell me' that i can't go it alone. But in scripture many people have been lone humans. Some of the prophets had to go it alone and had to run for their lives when their whole nation was against them. 

I am wise enough not to permanently close any doors. But right now NO Organisation is serving God properly and i will not deliberately insult Almighty God by being part of a wicked Organisation that pretend to serve God. 

This is not really a serious topic, it's more of, Have you ever heard of such a thing ?

My son who is 26 and spends a lot of time 'online,' came to me with an unusual topic of discussion.

He has been reading online that, there are people which believe that where the Hebrew scriptures mention homosexuality, it is really talking about pedophilia.

He says that he has read, that a scripture about 'a man laying with a man' should be put to death, actually reads that 'a man laying with a young boy' should be put to death. 

It seems to imply that some people are saying it refers to pedophilia not homosexuality. 

I haven't investigated it at all for a couple of reasons.

1. From my viewpoint we do not live by the Hebrew / Mosaic Law, we live by the Bible principles given through Christ and the Apostles, recorded in the Greek scriptures.

2. I think those people involved in this 'way of thinking'  are trying to justify homosexuality, and I know that Almighty God hates / condemns homosexuality as shown in Romans 1 verses 24 through 27.

The point of the topic is that i had never heard of people using the 'reasoning' that the Hebrew scriptures referred to pedophilia not homosexuality. 

Any thought ? 

14 hours ago, xero said:

Musing more.

The more I consider Hebrews and the counsel given, it's hard to imagine that anyone could be considered a faithful Christian or a faithful organization if these failed to either submit to organizational authority (implying an argument that in extrabiblical matters the individual has a responsibility to be obedient insofar as the commands/counsel are not in opposition to clear scriptural dictates) or failed to apply discipline to individual members.

As much as I look about, this is certainly an earmark of what I'd expect of a true religion - that the religion would expect and enforce biblical standards and principles.

 

This is interesting because my 26 year old son and i were having a conversation about the Law or Moses / Nation of Israel

( I will start a separate topic of the conversation above )

Let us get one thing clear. The NATION OF ISRAEL had LAW.   If you were born into, or, if you became part of, the NATION OF ISRAEL, you were under that LAW. 

However, CHRISTIANS are NOT under LAW.  Christians should live by BIBLE PRINCIPLES, which would be governed by a BIBLE trained CONSCIENCE. 

So xero's comment above smells badly of the Devil's work. Xero is trying, but failing, to prove the need of a dictatorship organisation.  

Once again xero links two completely separate things,  (quote) " a faithful Christian or a faithful organization".  Those things are miles apart. 

Quote " if these failed to either submit to organizational authority".  = dictatorship.

Quote "an earmark of what I'd expect of a true religion - that the religion would expect and enforce biblical standards and principles." 

The Watchtower and multiple JW orgs do not have "biblical standards and principles."  but they do enforce man made rules. 

If you want to go back to the Nation of Israel then your GB / ranks / Elders bind up heavy loads and put those loads on the shoulders of congregants, but those in 'control' do not help to ease any load. Pharisees.