Patiently waiting for Truth

20 hours ago, xero said:

What opposers refuse to acknowledge is that Jehovah has always used organization to further his will and purposes. (they wouldn't even know anything at all without these organizations whom they've chosen to oppose and criticize) Sometimes these organizations are listening and responding as they should in our eyes and sometimes not so much. The question to answer is which organization is he using, or which organizations and to what end. Clearly the nominally Christian organizations have been used to one degree or another over time (wheat and weeds growing together). The individual (you and I) with our God-given conscience and our own responsibility have to determine which organization we will associate with and justify our choices in this regard. Suggesting that organization in unnecessary is just unscriptural idiocy.

He hasn't always used organisations.  And he certainly punished the Nation of Israel in Babylon and Egypt. And surely there was a time when no known religion was serving God properly, so God would not have been using a whole organisation. A time when ordinary people were not allowed to have the Bible and it was punishable by death. 

God and Christ do not seem to be using any organisation right now. 

Quote, "Clearly the nominally Christian organizations have been used to one degree or another over time (wheat and weeds growing together)."

Now this statement is interesting. So you are suggesting that other religions are wheat and weeds growing together but that the Watchtower / JW Org is just Wheat. Um, that would mean you are saying that the Harvesting has already been done

20 hours ago, Anna said:

If someone is disfellowshipped it is on account of known unrepentant wrong doing and according to the scriptures.

Do you seriously believe what you've written ?  Yes of course you do.  It reminds me of the Elder that phoned my wife and told her that I was disfellowshipped. When she told that Elder that I had left of my own choice, he replied, "It's all the same to us". 

On 3/13/2021 at 6:34 PM, Anna said:

Quite an appropriate lesson for this weekend:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-january-2021/Lessons-From-the-Disciple-Whom-Jesus-Loved/

 

 

Very good article and so is the following one.  It was nice to read simple truth without hype. 

8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Then, as I stated earlier, you have no clue what is backed up by scripture.

The Body of Christ is the TRUE ANOINTED.  That is fact and is backed up by many scriptures. 

11 hours ago, Anna said:

Loving cars, is not going to make you into a loving person.

Loving the GB and the JW org is not going to make you into a living person either. And that has been clearly proven many times by many people.  

11 hours ago, Anna said:

You tried, but really this is comparing apples to oranges

His original comment said that when a large group of people gather together they cause trouble / behave badly.  He didn't even mention them being a religious group of people. So my example fitted the bill.  It wasn't until his next comment that he mentioned both a 'group of people' and, a religion.  

I think it has been proven beyond doubt, to people that are realistic, that JWs are no better as individuals or as a group, than anyone else. @Witness shared a great link to a religion that gives very practical help to people at this time.  @JW Insider shared some information that puts the JW org on a parr with other religions, but no better.  And you yourself know of some details about the JW Org that you do not fully approve of.  (Things you have written a long time ago).  So, take off the 'rose tinted spectacles' and look at the Watchtower / GB / JW Org from a realistic, truthful perspective. 

14 hours ago, xero said:

Even an atheist recognizes the need for organization,

I also recognize the need for organization.  But I note here you say "the need for organization", NOT the need for AN Organsation.  You are so sly with your words.  I obey laws of the land and observe common decency and therefore I follow the organisation of the land I live in, because the laws and common decency are organised.  But that does not make me part of AN Organisation.  

14 hours ago, xero said:

So YOU as a professed Christian simply must choose an organization with which to associate

This is not so. Because at this time there is NO Organisation serving God properly. So why would i want to deliberately displease God and Christ ?  BUT I do expect an  organisation that is pleasing to God and Christ to 'appear' long before Armageddon. Whether that will be a cleansed organsation that already exists, or a newly formed organsation I do not know. And whether i will still be alive to see it I do not know either. At 71 I'm living on 'borrowed time' already.  

14 hours ago, xero said:

until the harvest

And when do you predict this Harvest starting ? 

8 hours ago, xero said:

If I'm wrong, name just one group that behaves better as it gets together in groups than Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't see this as true in any other denomination.

Your earlier comment mentioned a 'group' of people, not a religion. and you said people in groups behaved badly.  I therefore gave you an example of a group of people that do not behave badly, which you obviously ignored. 

This later comment from you mentions firstly 'one group' but then 'any other denomination'. So which do you mean ?  We all know that this 'world' is generally ruled over by the Devil.  And we all know that the Devil has control of false religion.  BUT, @JW Insider  in his very balanced comment, has shown that JWs are no better than other religions in many ways.  So the Devil uses the GB and JW Org in a different way.  They are not outwardly violent. Oh but inwardly. Parents throwing their own teenage children out onto the streets. Parents forcing their children to do ministry and forcing them to get baptised into the Org. Congregants frightened to speak up on matters for fear of being D/fed. Anyone that chooses to leave the Org, totally ignored by even their closest family because of instruction form the Leaders of the Org. 

And this :-

9 hours ago, John Houston said:

But, what group can keep doing it!? Not put on a show of love but live it,

JWs do put on a show. And I was in that org long enough to see it. Even in congregations where there are plenty of Elders, the congregation is Controlled by only a couple of bullying Elders. The elders pick on people that they don't like, and sometimes it is young families that get bullied. And of course there is adultery and CSA in many congregations Earthwide.  But once in and baptised people are trapped. They know what happens if they complain, D/fed. 

8 hours ago, xero said:

It always seemed that groups trampled individuals.

Yes and it is so in the JW Org.  CSA, once again. Victims treated as collateral damage. Congregants being reproved whilst elders get off without council. 

8 hours ago, xero said:

Yet how would we have a Bible, or have anything else even nominally known as Christian or even know of the history of the world (beyond vague forensic investigations) without people organizing themselves to worship God?

Yes but that was done long before the Watchtower existed. It wasn't the JW Org that did it. 

8 hours ago, xero said:

Like the scripture said "whether in pretense or in truth, the Christ must be preached".

Yes Christ, and Almighty God, but not the GB, Watchtower or JW Org.   Have a good day. 

20 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He told of the Nuremberg trials immediately following WWII where Nazis were asked, “How could you have done these despicable things?” Their answer: “We had no choice. If we didn’t do we were told, they would have killed us.”

I wonder if the Elders say this in answer to hiding Pedophiles in their congregations. 

JWs know that if they don't do as they are told then they will be 'killed' spiritually, by being disfellowshipped. And they will lose the immediate contact of around one hundred (or more ) people.  Tom knows this of course but pretends it isn't true. 

I do wonder what things you kept hidden in the Org when you were an elder, and if it bothers your conscience now. 

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

My overall impression that it's going to about the same for JWs, Catholics, Mormons, Hasidic Jews, Boy Scouts, Government employees, etc. Namely that most CSA will be familial, and therefore it will be underreported and not make statistical lists. But OUTSIDE of familial CSA, the perpetrators will tend toward those with some level of presumed authority over rank-and-file members, and will therefore tend toward priests, Catholic brothers, JW elders, JW ministerial servants, Scout leaders, bosses, etc. 

I liked you balanced comment and would have loved to delve deeper into it, but I think you say i am disecting things if i do. 

It would seem that here you are saying that the JW Org is no better than any other organisation.  So what is happening then ? Are you saying that God and / or  Christ is allowing this Earthwide in what is supposed to be 'God's organsation' ? That God or Christ see it as Collateral Damage ?  That the GB should be allowed to hide that 25 year database in the USA ?  That all enquiries into the JW Org CSA should stop ?   Do you honestly believe that the Watchtower / JW Org are being blessed by God or Christ whilst all this immorality is going on ?  I just think on the Apostle Paul's words about the congregation that had a man in it, that was having sex with his father's wife.  

8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

It is clear, you and "witness" don't understand, what the "Body of Christ" is, and How "Gods Holy Spirit" is granted, and to whom.

The Body of Christ is the TRUE ANOINTED.  That is fact and is backed up by many scriptures. 

8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Are you, saying Catholics are following Christ commands and Gods laws just like the Watchtower? Hmm!

When have you heard the Watchtower say or publish it's okay to "kill" in the name of patronage? Homosexuality is okay, fornication is okay, Adultery is okay, etc. If you find a Watchtower article, let me know. 

I'm saying the Watchtower tells just as many lies as the Catholic Church, and the Watchtower is just as immoral. And the GB and it's laywers allow CSA to continue in the JW Org. 

12 hours ago, xero said:

I was an atheist visiting the KH w/my gf who was studying, and I observed them for months and also went to a day of a district convention when it struck me what was most different about JW's was that their behavior improved to the extent that they got together as a group. This I contrasted with every other group I'd been with. To the extent the group grew in size, to that extent it became unruly and more badly behaved.

The Devil works in very clever ways. He does not always make people behave outwardly 'unruly / badly'. 

The Devil can, as we have proof, pretend to be an angel of light. 

But, you know, I know of Car enthusiasts that can work together as a group and organise huge meetings for all types of vehicles, and it all runs so smoothly. So what you are saying about JWs actually means nothing.

This is one of the things that is so funny about JWs.  All the talk about everyone outside that 'mighty' Org being wicked or behaving badly. It's all such stupid talk by JWs. And you have given an excellent example in your last sentance. 

On 3/11/2021 at 10:59 AM, César Chávez said:

This is interesting, The GB are the anointed,

Possilby they once were, but have since sinned against the Holy spirit. 

On 3/11/2021 at 10:59 AM, César Chávez said:

God grants many gifts to different servants.

for the Anointed. 

On 3/11/2021 at 10:59 AM, César Chávez said:

You are directing them to hate formed Christianity

But Catholisism is formed Christianinty too, and no worse than the Watchtower.  None of it serves God right now. 

On 3/11/2021 at 12:07 PM, JW Insider said:

I can't tell what you mean here. Seems like some words got smashed?

Um, Oops 

On 3/11/2021 at 9:25 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Of course! Why would any advertiser make any exaggeration at all? It is the most reliable bedrock indicators of truth there is—almost up there with propoganda.

Um, shall we expect the Gb lawyers to sue them soon then ? 

23 hours ago, César Chávez said:

No, John, that falls under ignorance by ex-witness fluff and some present witness conjecture

Not when it can be found written in Watchtower magizines  .

23 hours ago, César Chávez said:

 "blaspheme against Gods Holy Spirit"

The only ones that could do this are the True Anointed ones.  They are the only ones anointed by God's Holy Spirit. The ones that you are so jealous of.

23 hours ago, César Chávez said:

then your activism is directly harming others by, preventing others to learn Gods will for this earth

Oh you are sooooo wrong here . I constantly tell others what God's plans are for this earth.  But you are so narrow minded that you think only you know truth.  

Stop being so jealous of the True Anointed, and begin to know your place. Then you might find happiness, you may even learn to serve God through Christ. Have a good day.

Yes @TrueTomHarley it is an ad', but it states facts.

And why not, you continue to advertise your books on here.

But I'm sure you loved this bit Tom.

On 3/10/2021 at 1:20 PM, 4Jah2me said:

In Jehovah’s Witnesses cases, perpetrators of sex abuse commonly hold the position of church “elder” or “ministerial servant.”

Now, would they dare say that if it wasn't true ?  Would a 'Law firm' make that statement ? 

And will you criticize them for saying it the way you criticize me ?  Have a good day. 

By the way I love the 'smashwords' idea,  it suits you. You contiu

a

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/robins-kaplan-justice-report-winter-4640478/?

ESTABLISHING DUTY IN CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES AGAINST THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES -

In 2019, 13 states and the District of Columbia amended civil statutes to enlarge statutes of limitations for child sex abuse claims. Eight of these jurisdictions enacted revival statutes allowing previously time-barred child sex abuse claims to proceed: New York, the District of Columbia, Montana, New Jersey, Arizona, Vermont, Rhode Island, and North Carolina.

In 2019, 13 states and the District of Columbia amended civil statutes to enlarge statutes of limitations for child sex abuse claims. Eight of these jurisdictions enacted revival statutes allowing previously time-barred child sex abuse claims to proceed: New York, the District of Columbia, Montana, New Jersey, Arizona, Vermont, Rhode Island, and North Carolina. Since implementation of these statutes, survivors of child sex abuse have filed complaints against many different institutions—not just against individual perpetrators of abuse—including, the Roman Catholic Church, various independent schools, the Boy Scouts of America, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses parent-organization, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. (“Watchtower”). Institutions may be directly liable for sex abuse committed by their agents through negligencebased claims, such as, negligent supervision, hiring/ retention, and failure to warn. In Jehovah’s Witnesses cases, perpetrators of sex abuse commonly hold the position of church “elder” or “ministerial servant.” In those cases, attorneys for the Jehovah’s Witnesses typically argue that elders and ministerial servants are unpaid volunteers, not employees or agents of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and, thus, the organization has no duty to protect one congregant from abuse by another congregant, especially if the abuse occurred off congregation premises. Below are some examples of evidence that Plaintiffs’ attorneys have successfully marshaled to counter this argument. First, the Jehovah’s Witnesses organizational structure shows that elders and ministerial servants are indeed agents of the Church. In J.W. v. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., California’s appeals court provides a generally accurate description of the Jehovah’s Witnesses hierarchy. The relevant upshot is that, “[e]lders are the highest authority at the congregational level,” and, thus, are the Jehovah’s Witnesses equivalent of Roman Catholic priests.5 In order to be appointed an elder, a person must first be a Minsterial Servant in good standing. Top-down, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, or, “Watchtower,” as the parent-organization is known, is controlled by the Governing Body of eight elders, essentially the board of directors for Watchtower.  Below the Governing Body are circuits generally comprised of 20 to 22 congregations.  Below the circuit-level are local congregations, each managed by a body of elders, who select candidates for becoming elders and ministerial servants. Watchtower’s own documents and policies elucidate the institution’s agency relationship with its elders and ministerial servants, and reveal the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ own perception that a duty arises from those relationships. For example, in another California child sex abuse case, Watchtower produced a July 20, 1998 letter in which the organization admonishes All Bodies of Elders against appointing child sex abusers as elders or ministerial servants because, “this could result in costly lawsuits. . . . [C]ourt officials and lawyers will hold responsible any organization that knowingly appoints former child abusers to positions of trust, if one of these, thereafter, commits a further act of child abuse.” The letter concedes, “[t]hose who are appointed to privileges of services, such as elders and ministerial servants, are put in a position of trust. . . .this includes being more liberal in leaving children in their care and oversight.” As for any attempt to mitigate the role of ministerial servants as compared to elders, the Watchtower policy manual, “Organized to do Jehovah’s Will,” instructs that ministerial servants are authorized to perform tasks otherwise reserved for elders, when an elder is unavailable, such as: (1) conduct Congregation Book Study; (2) handle Service Meetings; (3) handle parts of the Theocratic Ministry School; and (4) deliver public talks in the local congregation. Based on the above, courts have been persuaded that Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations are liable for “violat[ing] [a] duty,” when a clergy sex abuse victim’s parents were “congregants, who in deciding to permit [the perpetrator] into their home reasonably relied on his status as an appointed ministerial servant as well as on his good standing and reputation within the congregation. . . .”13 In addition to the above, the California Court of Appeal rejected the notion that a plaintiff failed to sufficiently allege proximate cause when the sexual abuse had occurred off congregation premises, mainly relying on a respondeat superior discussion in Comment C to the Restatement (3d) of Agency § 7.05: “causation may not be present when the harm occurs outside the work environment. It does not reflect that causation cannot be found when the harm occurs outside the work environment.” Understanding the structure, history, and policies of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is important for proving the parentinstitution’s liability in a child sex abuse case; but this is just a start.

CC chucking his toys out of his pram again. Such childlike ways he has. 

8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

The authority comes from applying scripture.

BUT you don't have that authority, because you are not of the True Anointed. 

8 hours ago, César Chávez said:

The Watchtower helped me to put genuine interest in scripture.

That would be the same Watchtower that has falsely predicted Armageddon at least 5 times.  The same Watchtower that tells the Anointed not to gather together.  The same Watchtower that says 'only the 8 GB are the F&DS'. Oh yes that Watchtower, the one that continues to tell so many lies. 

The picture at the top is funny. They look so clean and 'white'.  I think they would have had much more hair on thier bodies as they were supposed to remain naked. Even now men have more body hair than Adam has in that picture. 

But once again who needs the words of Men, when we have the words of God ?    

19 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Yet, John doesn't understand the meaning of blaspheming against Gods Holy Spirit when all of you are acting like one. WOW!! 😪

You are trying to put yourself in the place of Jesus Christ.

All authority was given to Christ, not to you. 

The GB seem to have trained you well. They have no authority either but they want to rule over the True Anointed and over millions of the Earthly class.   If your GB were ever anointed then it is they who have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit. But of course the GB will pay for their spiritual and physical crimes and sins. 

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

I advised you long ago, you had passed that threshold of blaspheming against Gods Holy Spirit. That has not changed nor can you take it back with repentance. Continue to enjoy whatever life you have left. Your kind doesn't get a second chance. As for your other accounts, don't criticize TTH for having many.

Thank you for making me laugh. Life can be too serious. It is very sad to read your words. Sad because you think you have power. The power to judge me in this way.  But I am not expecting to gain everlasting life in God's new world. I am, in fact, offering myself in this way.  If I can warn others of the dangers of the Watchtower and the JW community, then i will be offering my life in exchange for giving a warning. But if my expectations of the future are correct, then woe to JWs.  As for me i cannot lose, because i do not have expectations for myself. I seriously do not mind offering myself in this way.  Many people have offered their lives for many causes. For me, serving God through Christ is the greatest cause, even if i do not survive.

As for accounts, I only have this one on this forum. Multiple accounts would not work for me, it's just not my thing. 

It's 11 am here in England. The sun is shining and i have just returned from a two hour walk.  I needed to sit and rest for a while, that's why I'm on here. So what do we find then. Wel it seems as if tom now wants to serve the Devil, and CC. is ranting and raving because he is so jealous that the scriptures are written for the True Anointed. 

CC is trying all ways to decieve others about God's written word. But the truth is that God's written word is for the True Anointed to understand properly with the guidance of God's Holy spirt, through Jesus Christ.  I could, once again, show many scriptures to prove my point, but it is pointless and wrong to 'cast pearls before swine'. 

CC's other pointless point about the Elders, well it's very sad. CC thinks the Elders are princes and CC believes the Elders are guided by God's Holy Spirit. CC burbles on about evidence for CSA but we all know that it has been proven that the Edlers were told to destoy evidence., and the congregations were told to keep everything 'in house'. CC really believes that the Elders are princes so lets have a scripture 

Psalm 146 : 3 

 Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Even the Devil would come around if he just was treated with love and understanding! He is only acting out of his pain. Be nice to him!

4Jah is on to something here, I think. He has make fine progress since he left God’s organzation. The world is not bad. The ordinary people wish to live their daily lives and they will be able to do so once the Devil turns over a new leaf, which he will do if we just do things his way. He will then persuade the world leaders to join him in his new course of love and quit making trouble for their subjects.

It seems that Tom has turned apostate here and now Tom believes the Devil will become good. it looks as if tom no longer believes in Armageddon, because tom thinks Armageddon is no longer necessary due to Tom's idea that the Devil will be good and evryone will have peace. Poor old tom, unless this is his new Book. 

1 Corinthians 12 : 12 & 13 

 For just as the body is one but has many members, and all the members of that body, although many, are one body, so too is the Christ. ¹³  For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit.

THIS IS THE ANOINTED

1 Corinthians 12 : 18

 But now God has arranged each of the body members just as he pleased.

THIS IS STILL THE ANOINTED 

The whole of that scripture is about the Anointed.  I'm sorry that JWs don't have the spiritual wisdom to understand that.