Patiently waiting for Truth

19 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

They continue to put their faith in the governing body, and when they don't follow through, they view that as Jehovah God not following through.

I hope you and your mother are as well as can be expected in these times.

But are these times showing that JWs are putting too much faith in the GB and the Org, and not enough faith in God through Christ. Personal Bible study and prayer are always good. 

19 hours ago, xero said:

The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace.

John Butler was disfellowshipped and banned from this forum for making a statement which was totally inline with this scripture. 

This scripture says collect out from his Kingdom. Surely that means collect out from the Anointed ones, all things that cause stumbling. 

The stumbling does not come from the Earthly class, it comes from those taking the lead in the Organisation who say they are Anointed but prove false to that power.  

And the stumbling does not come from false religions, becasue the scripture says collect out from his Kingdom,  and false religion are no part of that kingdom. 

So, if you disagree wiith me, then tell me who you think will be collected out, and from where ? 

19 hours ago, xero said:

The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness,

Firstly this says Jesus  WILL SEND HIS ANGELS. Secondly this refers to the Anointed ones (his kingdom)  that cause stumbling.   Luke 17 : 1&2  tells us about stumbling. 

In my opinion this could well refer to the removal of the GB and all other wicked anointed ones. To be replaced by True Anointed ones. ( I will make a separate comment soon about this point. )

19 hours ago, xero said:

“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him,

Now this says all the angels with him.    So refers to a different time. 

19 hours ago, xero said:

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another,

So this refers to the Earthly class. 

19 hours ago, xero said:

Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you?   When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’  In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.

So this obviously refers to members of the Earthly class that have helped members of the True anointed. 

Hence it IS important to know who the True Anointed ones really are, although of course we should help as many people as possible. 

Both scriptures were 'in the future' at the time of writing them of course. Because they were written for the 'time of the end' which is yet to happen.

However I don't quite know what you mean by parallel as they are two totally different events. 

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But neither do I want to be seen as an attack dog.

Having said that, see how long it takes for that idiot 4Jah to get on your nerves. You can write a post about torture and he will attach a laughing emoji to it. He asks JWI about Santa Claus, for he is not sure himself, and JWI says there is no Santa Claus. Then he calls JWI a hypocrite for observing December. 

Oh dear tom you are soooooooooo funny. 

quote But neither do I want to be seen as an attack dog.

But then you go on and attack me. And earlier you were attacking Witness. 

I honestly think you are frightened of the things I write. Just look how you try to belittle me. You know I speak truth and therefore you try to pretend that I'm an idiot. 

Keep trying tom, it just shows you up for what you are. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

A lot of this are what I'd call "Red Herrings"

8 men calling themselves the Faithful and Discreet Slave and exalting themselves above every perosn living here on this Earth. And those 8 men exalt themseves over the True Anointed ones. Luke 14 : 11. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

Let's suppose you're right. That all this was a power issue. Whom did they have power over?

Well it started with Russell who had the power and leadership. Then Rutherford whom many 'brothers' hated, and i believe some of them left, but he certainly showed his lust for power. And this lust has remained right through to today. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

What did it get them? Money? Fame?

Yes, power over 8½ million people, money and fame.  The selling of all the old property in USA brought in so much cash, then building Warwick made them famous, and next is the big 'film studio' they are planning to build.  They are already famous for all the videos etc. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

I never once believed something because the organization said something was so.

The Watchtower Study Edition is printed solely for the purpose of dictating to the congregation exactly what it WILL BELIEVE. And it therefor follows it also dictates what JW will preach to others. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

I didn't see the point with arguing about "tabs vs spaces" as it all compiled the same.

If it is of so little consequence to you then you cannot be a very spiritual person.  BUT IMO it is the True Anointed that will have the true spiritual guidance, not the 'boots on the ground' JWs. 

On 2/9/2021 at 10:39 AM, xero said:

I wasn't baptized into the WTS.

Really ? How strange. So, did your Baptism include the words I've highlighted in this scripture ?  "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,"  as Jesus instructed and recorded at, Matthew 28 :19. 

As for the rest of your drivel, it's not really worth the time to reply to, just to say that you are obviously a 'company man' doing the will of your GB. You don't seem to have any knowledge of the CSA Earthwide problem, probably because it frightens you. Do you have any knowledge of the 25 year Pedophile Database you GB and their Lawyers are hiding ?  it's all kept hidden from the congregations. If they don't go looking for info' they will never know. 

@TrueTomHarley  It appears that the HATRED is coming from you.  This time aimed at Witness. Other times aimed at me or others. 

And @Witness offers her views on spiritual matters far more than you ever do. All you do is promote yourself and your books. 

8 hours ago, xero said:

You remind me of

I see you have run out of even slightly inteligent things to write. Oh yes of course you prefer posting videos which are not of your making. 

@xero Wow the organisation have trained you well in their twisting of scripture and their sly lying ways.

Lets take for example the 'Faithful and discreet Slave' 

Up until 2013 (I think) ALL of the Anointed were classed as the F&DS. But then wow, suddenly ONLY THE GB  are the F&DS.

So, tell me how your GB got this message from God ?  Relate this to your cat nonsense. Where is ANY PROOF that your GB are the F&DS ?  Why did your GB suddenly demote the rest of the Anointed ones ?  

Now another example, the 'Superior Authorties' of Romans. How did your Org / Watchtower get the false message from God saying that the SA was no longer the Governments / Leaders of this world, but suddenly became God and Christ ? 

WHY WOULD GOD TELL A LIE ? Answer is God did not lie. The Leaders of your Org / W/t LIED because they wanted power over the whole congregation. They did not get any message from God.

And now your GB admit that they are not inspired of Holy Spirit, but they use this confession only as an excuse for the lies they've told and continue to tell. 

One of the main reasons your GB are so guilty of lies is, as I've mentioned, that they say they are the F&DS. By saying that, they are saying they are the 'vioce' / spokesperson of God through Christ. That is blasphamy, and they continue to prove so by their dishonest immoral behavior. 

The GB's attitude concerning Child Sexual Abuse within the Watchtower / JW Org proves they have no love for God, Christ or people. Your GB are a total disgrace, but of course they will have their judgemnet soon. 

I don't watch videos. If people cannot write it then i can't be bothered with it.  Copying and pasting is lazy, put it in your own words. 

On 2/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, JW Insider said:

On the other hand, I wish they didn't think that telling us how close we are to the end was so important.

Huh,  It brings the money in. Frighten people into the congregation, then tell those people to 'support' the Org.  They send out Witnesses into the 'field' to tell people the doom story. "You must enter the JW Org to be saved".  

On 2/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, JW Insider said:

Development of true Christian character (i.e., love for God and neighbor) has always been much more important than trying to find visible signs upon which to hang our faith in the promises.

YES You know that and I know that BUT it seems the GB and their helpers don't want to know that.  

On 2/7/2021 at 11:02 AM, JW Insider said:

And it wasn't the GB trying to get attention by continuing to "cry wolf" as you said above. That would be a sure way to get people to stop paying attention, just like it works out in the story of the boy who cried wolf.

The difference being that the Leaders of the Watchtower / Org  'cry wolf'  around every ten years or so. Hence the previous cry has been forgotten and it is a different 'audience' listening to the 'new cry'.  

On 2/8/2021 at 6:55 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

 had two roles, traveling pioneers and traveling merchants

Wasn't the Apostle Paul and/or some of the other Apostles, Tent makers ?

So they too would have had two roles, one spiritual to serve God through Christ, one practical to earn the money they needed to live. 

8 hours ago, xero said:

I'm not in any position to judge. I also don't go hunting anyone down to see what they're up to.

Could do with more like you here in England then.  I've been a member of a few congregations In southern England having moved around a bit, and the Elders are more like police officers looking for trouble, BUT, they overlook their friends 'sins', only harassing some brothers and sisters. Some things are too personal to mention on here but I've seen some wickedness and some very unpleasant Elders. Luke 17 : 1 & 2.   

8 hours ago, xero said:

I'm not aware of anything like this in any congregation I've been part of. If I even suspected something like this I know our local boe has a different attitude. One bro said only half joking. "I'd invite someone like that to go on a hunting trip w/me. 'accidents' CAN happen while you're out hunting."

But you don't have training then ? 

23 hours ago, xero said:

Suppose someone had a marriage that went south and the guy was ranting to you about his ex-wife at a bar. You'd probably think "OK, I guess this guy had it bad....Then say a year goes by and you run into him again..."Say how's it goin!" and he launches into a rant about his ex-wife again. Maybe you let it go...maybe he's still dealing with something....Then two years later...same guy, same bar and guess what? Still ranting about his ex-wife....

Suppose the ex-wife was a Pedophile ? and suppose the guy was actually doing two things, 1. Warning other people to stay clear, 2. Trying to help the victims make a case against his ex-wife. 

Apply that to the Watchtower / JW org / CCJW / GB,  EARTHWIDE.  That is what some ex-JWs are doing, because the GB and it's Lawyers are so wicked and dishonest. 

On 2/6/2021 at 9:17 AM, xero said:

I think a lot of people who have left and a lot who have stayed have a lot in common. They haven't made the truth their own. Instead they either abdicate their free will to an organization or they blame an organization for their having left. In either case if the shoe fits is that "each one must carry his own load"

There is so much in this little piece. Lets dissect it.

They haven't made the truth their own Which truth do you mean? The JW truth changes from year to year.  'New light' it pretend to be, but in honesty it is failed predictions.

Instead they either abdicate their free will to an organization But this is what the GB demand. The GB demand complete obedience through the Elder 'police'. 

or they blame an organization for their having left.  Now this is interesting. According to an Elder I know, no one leaves, they are all disfellowshipped.  BUT, for my part I will blame my Christian conscience as the reason I left the Org.  Although I left because of the immorality and dishonesty in the JW Org. 

"each one must carry his own load"  Yes indeed, but I didn't expect an Elder to phone my wife and tell her I had been disfellowshipped, when that Elder knew I had left of my own choice and he knew the reasons too. 

Unfortunately many of you JWs pretend that all 'ex-JWs' are wicked people that 'go back into the wicked world' . Sorry but I find it so funny that you people have to do that. You seem so insecure and need to reassure yourself by pretending that every one 'outside' is wicked.  JUST look at the paragraph I've quoted and see how many accusations there are against ex-JWs.  My first three highlights make it easy for you. You are taught to blame the ex Witness, never to blame the JW Org or the GB. 

8 hours ago, Isabella said:

“There is no clear government strategy to make the Jehovah’s Witness leaders accountable that has been shared with survivors,” she said.

All part of Satan's wicked world, both JW Org and the Australian government. 

Same in America, the government and CCJW / Watchtower all under the Devil's control. 

Child Sex Abuse Victims are just treated as collateral damage, and just pushed aside by the Leaders of the JW Org and the governments. 

9 hours ago, xero said:

Oh, I've noticed it. I have to take training every year in identifying potential human trafficking. (Just one of the many I have to get refreshers on every year)

I hope you have training about identifying child sexual abuse in the congregation too. 

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I was baptized in 1967, and was still 15, almost 16, when I quit school in 1973 to begin f-t pioneering. I took to heart the Watchtower's counsel and advice that the system had only a few months after this 1975 period, not years.

And they did so again to say 'before the end of the century. Before the year 2000. 

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

but my father still sold our house and moved us into a rented house in 1974, so that my mother could begin f-t pioneering, too.

This is nice to read as it proves that these things did happen. Thank you.  You were there and you give proof. 

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But I never discouraged college for my three children and, as things turned out, I'm currently glad I didn't

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

My kids all had music, orchestra, and choir in high school, and kept their skills up for another few years in college.

I'm seeing this pattern of JWs, either not believing the GB / Watchtower, or not obeying the GB / Watchtower. 

Physically in, spiritually out.  I would imagine your children would ask many questions about the 1970's, and about your allowing them / encouraging them to go to college.  

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

child trafficking the most disgusting part of it.

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

so yes - incase you have not noticed the entire world is going back to the time of Canaan - Sodom and Gomorra.... where anything unmoral is ok to indulge in - turning people into mere animals.

And you are pretending it doesn't happen in the Watchtower / JW Org Congregations.

But it has been happening in the JW religion for over 50 years. 

On 2/6/2021 at 10:26 AM, xero said:

What it really means is that the individual imagines either what some organization told him is going to happen is true and moral when it's neither true nor moral (and not at all what Jehovah is up to)

You confuse me and make me laugh. I think you said you are an Elder in the CCJW. But then it seems that you are saying that you don't believe the things the CCJW teaches. 

I have noticed this with JWs. The easiest way to remain in the Org is not to believe what the Org teaches .  Physically in, spiritually out.  I suppose it's like having a safety net. Serve God your own way, but stay in the Org as it might be the only ones God saves at Armageddon .   

Sorry, I find you funny.  I personally could not stay in the Org as my 

On 2/6/2021 at 10:26 AM, xero said:

bible trained consciences

told me to leave. Mainly due to the CSA problem in the org Earthwide, but also for other reasons. 

On 2/6/2021 at 10:26 AM, xero said:

Will it be a wipeout and restore operation?

I don't think so as the scripture at Matthew 24 :22 says, 

And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the elect, those days will be shortened.

On 2/3/2021 at 6:45 AM, xero said:

but simply not being a baptized card-carrying member of the community of true Christians at Armageddon doesn't seem to be a great argument as to deciding on their ultimate fate.

On 2/3/2021 at 6:45 AM, xero said:

It's not false humility on my part to acknowledge that there are a lot of non JW's who are way better than me. I used to say to people "I'm not better THAN anyone, but better OFF for trying at least to stay in line w/the bible."

 

I think there is a scripture that says something like "You are not far from the kingdom of God" 

But the question must be then, Do you think a person has to be a Baptised JW to be saved at Armageddon ? 

19 hours ago, xero said:

There are other stories. I know a lot of people who blame(perhaps she isn't 'blaming', but the context gives that impression) the org for the way their lives turned out.

@Srecko Sostar Has shown clearly how the Leaders of the Watchtower deliberately deceive the congregation over which they have complete control. Of course the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW org are to blame.  In the 1940s they predicted Armageddon. in the 1960s they again predicted Armageddon. And Srecko has shown that in the 1980s / 90s again the Leaders falsely predicted Armageddon. CRYING WOLF gets them attention, and frightens the congregation, which in turn keeps the congregation under the control of the Leaders.  And of course anyone that disagrees gets disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'.  Being d/fed means losing everyone you know, being totally isolated. So, you cannot blame the congregants, they were just doing as they were told.  

(As a side note, I had to Google BDSM, I had no idea what it meant. I kinda prove to myself that I am no part of this world)

8 hours ago, xero said:

was that evil is predictable because evil shuns free will.

Wow, I didn't realize that you believe your Watchtower / JW Org / GB to be so Evil. 

The leadership of the Watchtower has for many years taken away the free will of it's congregants. 

One obvious way was the deliberate misuse of the Superior Authorities scripture, so that congregants had to obey the Org or be 'removed'.  

This is a quote from you xero from another topic. 

You know, that the core beliefs of JW's don't differ significantly from the bulk of other nontrinitarian religions except in ways which, quite frankly are conscience matters. This is a big issue in my world. Too many brothers want to override or supplant the consciences of others. If there is a defect, that would be it -

And again evil shuns free will.

Point proven.  Hence just one more reason I'm glad I left the JW / Watchtower dishonest, immoral, Organisation. 

I actually think it is your Org that has shunned this :-

 "I am the way, the truth, the life - no one comes to the father except through me" Jesus said,

What have your Leaders done ?  Refused to baptise people properly. Not using the scripture which says to baptise "In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy spirit"

But telling people that have to be baptised into the JW org. Telling people that they have to be a baptised JW 'to be saved' at Armageddon. 

18 hours ago, xero said:

Right. I'm not a socialist leftist.

Sorry that is lost on me. I try to be 'no part of that world' and I seriously don't know the meanings of left or right in politics. Nor do I know the true meaning of 'socialist'.  I'm English, working class, educated (or not) in the 1950's / early 60's, so had a very basic education and have never looked into politics. My 'belief' is that every politician tells lies. 

17 hours ago, xero said:

None of us would whine and say "But why did Jehovah pick the Jews!". So any complaints about "Why America!" sound very similar as that complaint to me.

I think you are doing a GB / JW trick of misquoting me. I didn't complain about 'head office' being in America. What I said was (and you can look back at my comment)  it needs Anointed brothers from around the Earth to lead the org.  The Covid thing has done wonders for internet communication to 'come alive'.  It has proven that you don't need a leadership to be all together or all based in the same building.  The Leaders of the Org could be based in many different countries and communicate online.  (Enough - lunch time)

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

For it is basically an historical work, yet what is the point of doing it if I cannot convey the reasons Witnesses do what they do?

It's just a pity that JWs have not and cannot preach truth. For you yourself know that what you preach today, you will not preach next year. There is no building on a true foundation because the foundation keeps getting dug up and moved away. With each new book or Watchtower there is different teachings / doctrines. Sorry Tom but you know it's true.  And everyone in the org is expected to just change their 'belief' overnight, and therefore change their teaching of others.  The only historical part is the history of failed predictions.