Patiently waiting for Truth

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is part of the "unrighteous" riches we can use for Jehovah's work and to help brothers when they are hit by natural or other disasters.

But not to pay compensation to VICTIMS of Child Sexual Abuse in the CCJW.  Oh why are you people so blind !

Jesus makes it so clear that true Christians should let themselves be wronged regarding material things, not make demands on governments for compensation, then refuse to pay compensation to VICTIMS that they have wronged. 

If you cannot see the hypocrisy here it is because you are being blinded by the Devil. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Tom's comment about JWs are already doing them, and yes, they do resolve the problems he details.

This is so laughable it's not even worth a serious reply. In your dreams Tom  

I can see that C.C. is lost for any sensible words to say.  Get well soon C.C.  

But remember C.C. that the more you support that GB the more guilty of sin you are. And you are more guilty than many JWs because many JWs do not have all the information you have.  You have all the information about the GB's sins so you can indeed judge them for yourself. And you do need to judge them because you follow them. Be fully aware of whom you follow and serve, for you neither follow or serve Almighty God or Jesus Christ. 

I wish you well.  

@César Chávez you are full of bluff and nonsense just like the GB you worship. 

Keep it up. You will fall at the same time your GB fall. You will fall because you do not have humility just like your GB does not have humility.

I've answered all your questions. It's just that you are blind to the answers because your GB have blinded you. You even deny your own words that you have written, but those words are here to be seen by everyone.  You cannot get much more 'blind' than that. The blindness is not in your physical eyes, your blindness is in your heart and mind. 

You have been brainwashed by your GB. You really think that the Watchtower is in line with Jesus when in truth the Watchtower is against Jesus and His Bride. 

The down vote was simply because TTH was trying to justify the GB and its Lawyers money grabbing from the world. The world that they pretend to be no part of. 

And my explanation as to why other religions should get monetary help but the CCJW shouldn't is clear enough for a five year old child to understand. But Tom chooses not to see it. 

To quote @TrueTomHarleyIt is worth pointing out also that this situation in France began decades ago, long before anyone’s favorite issue arose front and center.   

Please be aware that it is TOM that is now bringing up the CSA issue here, but slyly. 

As Tom is referring to CSA, well I think CSA 'arose' well over 50 years ago in the American part of the JW organisation. If Australia had CSA information from 50 years ago I'm sure USA has CSA information going back further.  Sorry that Tom had taken us off topic here. 

Quote Tom "since such exemption is founded on the premise that religious faith makes for more upright people, thus improving overall society and saving the state much policing work. JW’s, though they may not bat 100%, given human imperfection, do fit the bill on this. Most religions consist of members whose conduct is indistinguishable from the overall world."

The conduct of many JWs is no better that that of other religions right now, but JWs fail to see it. And members of other religions seem to be more helpful to the community as a whole. Plus the things I mentioned previously, such as defending the country at war and participating in elections of governments. Things that a worldly government would be looking at.  

As for anyone taking sides, I've no idea. BUT I do like to see things from both sides. 

And I notice that Tom is calling me names again. Him and C.C are definitely part of the same club.  Those people have to make it all so personal. 

No part of the world but demanding the world's money. Typical hypocrisy of the GB and it's Lawyers.

Most religions 'allow' their congregants to fight on behalf of their country. 

Most religions 'allow' their congregants to vote for politicians / governments. 

Most religions 'allow' their congregants to give blood and to accept vaccines.

In other words, most religions are part of that world. Hence those religions support the country and then the country supports that religion.  That all make sense in a practical way. (Wrong in a spiritual way of course) 

BUT, the CCJW is supposed to be no part of this world. So it does not 'allow' it's congregants to fight on behalf of the country, it does not allow its congregants to vote and it does not allow its congregants to give blood or accept some vaccines. So therefore it contributes nothing to the safety or upbuilding of the country, so why should such countries support the CCJW ? 

The CCJW shouldn't want money from the country.  Jesus and the Apostles didn't ask for money from the Jews or the Romans. They worked to support themselves and received help from those they ministered to. 

Jesus said render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Jesus didn't say take from Caesar or expect Caesar to give.  The GB prove themselves not to be serving God or Christ, more and more each day. 

But if they do get the money, what will they have to do in return ? 

 @César Chávez Oh dear, it is you that twists things to suit your own purpose. 

Quote My question to you is, try to keep up, “if” James is found guilty, would it be the GB’s Watchtowers fault?

No it would not be the GB's Watchtowers fault.  

Quote "Can you prove to your inquest that I am slandering JTR,

Well you said You are defending James Thomas Rook Jr an immoral man that was or still is part of the same organization,

You called James 'an immoral man' when you have no proof of such. I would say that is prejudging James and i would consider that slander.

Quote " If James is found guilty, then you will have no “choice” but to include him with those found guilty from the Watchtower."

If James is still a member of the CCJW then I would include him in my accusations against the GB and the CCJW / Watchtower.

My accusations against the GB and CCJW are totally different to the accusations being against JTR by the police / court.  

My accusations against the GB are that they made up rules which caused Paedophiles to be kept hidden within the CCJW or Watchtower (as you like to call it).  That the GB and their Lawyers are still withholding the Database, in America, containing over 20 years worth of accusations of Child Sexual Abuse, therefore the people kept hidden in that Database cannot be brought to justice and the Victims cannot find peace. 

My accusation against the GB is they do not want to pay compensation to Victims of CSA even when it has been proven that the Elders were following the rules made up by the GB. And that it was the rules made up by the GB that allowed the Paedophiles to continue to molest children.

My accusation against the GB is that they misguide the 8.5 million JWs by pretending to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave, a name which they have given themselves, and by so doing they have exalted themselves above the true Anointed. 

My accusation against the GB is that they are actually the Evil Slave class mentioned in Matthew 24 v 48 & 49

“But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ ⁴⁹  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 

Because the GB tells the Anointed not to met together for prayer or Bible study and the GB tell the Anointed that if they do meet together they will be 'working against the Holy spirit'.  Whereas the Anointed are the body of Christ and should be allowed to meet together whenever they want to. 

My accusation against the GB is that they do not use the words from Scripture for the baptism, and because of that the GB have people baptised into the Organisation not baptised into serving God through Christ. 

My accusation against the GB is that they are a stumbling block to many JWs and to many people that would want to serve God properly. The GB are the cause for many JWs to leave the Organisation because of the GB's man made rules (traditions of men). 

Therefore, my accusation against JWs is that they support the GB in all of the above wrongdoing.  Anyone remaining in the CCJW / Watchtower right now has a part in being guilty of the GB's sins and crimes. Because the GB could not do what they do on their own. 

Anyone that supports this immoral and dishonest CCJW organisation is guilty of it's sins and crimes. 

I wrote  And if James is guilty of crime then he must pay that price decided by those Superior Authorities. Also if James is guilty of sin then he needs to ask forgiveness from God through Christ. 

So there CC, I have not defended nor condemned James.  

Then C.C. says, 

Quote @César Chávez You are defending James Thomas Rook Jr an immoral man that was or still is part of the same organization,

How does one get through to such a person as C.C ?  Firstly I have said I am not defending James.  Then anyone can see that C.C. is slandering James as C.C has no proof, yet condemns James as  an immoral man. 

And then C.C. says, about him/herself " What I need is to obey and have faith in God." 

I would suggest then that you remain neutral in you thoughts and words about JTR. 

Quote "Since you JUDGE,  then you can be judged"  I really don't mind being judged by any human, in fact i find it amusing. 

God will judge me, through Christ. That is the only important judgement. 

I'll await your next silly comment CC  

https://www.econotimes.com/Why-freedom-of-religion-will-likely-not-trump-public-health-interests-with-a-future-COVID-19-vaccine-1590782

This week, three leading Australian religious figures have written to Prime Minister Scott Morrison outlining ethical concerns they have with the potential COVID-19 vaccine being developed at Oxford University.

The three Sydney archbishops are concerned the vaccine utilises a cell line derived from an aborted foetus.

A number of existing vaccines use cells originally taken from aborted foetuses. While the use of these cells is considered ethical by most standards, this does not alleviate religious concerns about the practice.

Freedom of religion is a fundamental human right, provided for under the UN International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

However, this freedom is not unlimited. Under article 18 of the UN covenant, these rights may be limited in the interests of public health. It reads:

Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs may be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary to protect public safety, order, health, or morals or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others.

While the potential Oxford University COVID-19 vaccine may “raise serious issues of conscience” for some religious groups, the interests of public health are likely to outweigh any freedom of religion concerns.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This article is Australian (I think) but it seems to say that Freedom of Religion can be 'removed' or ignored if a government feels that such 'freedom' causes a danger to others. And if the Covid-19 vaccine is really made from 'dead babies' then I think it would cause a problem in the CCJW. 

I will forgive @César Chávez as Jesus said we should forgive. And also because I think he/she is unwell emotionally and spiritually. 

CC seems to have judged both James and me. but for different reasons.  That's fine with me. 

CC wishes to defend an immoral organisation where cases against that organisation have been proven. And CC wishes to defend the GB even though it can be proven that the man made rules of that GB have caused stumbling and suffering to many Christians. We should remember Luke 17 v 1&2. 

We should also remember Luke 14 v 11. regarding the GB.   The GB will indeed be humbled. 

As for James, I just hope he is dealt with in an honest and just way by the Superior Authorities that stand in place because God allows them to be there. And if James is guilty of crime then he must pay that price decided by those Superior Authorities. Also if James is guilty of sin then he needs to ask forgiveness from God through Christ. 

So there CC, I have not defended nor condemned James.  We are all sinners and constantly need to pray for forgiveness. 

@César Chávez  I think you are unwell. Maybe you should see a doctor or psychiatrist. 

You are obviously not well enough to understand and use good English.  I do worry about you. 

I don't know why you keep referring to 'the Watchtower' as I have been writing about the CCJW. 

Get well soon. 

@César Chávez It really is a waste of my time conversing with you, but for  the sake of anyone else that might be reading all this I will reply. 

There are a few big differences between JTR and your GB. 

JTR is an individual. He is not a leader of 8.5 million people. 

JTR does not call himself the Faithful & Discreet Salve.

JTR is only responsible for himself and possibly his wife. 

The GB have given themselves the complete responsibility of 'feeding the 8.5 million sheep'. 

The GB dictate the man made rules for running the CCJW.  

Therefore the GB are responsible for hiding hundreds if not thousands of Paedophiles in the CCJW Earthwide.  THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN BEYOND DOUBT. 

The amount of court cases and investigations PROVE how wrong and immoral the GB and CCJW Org is.

I cannot understand why you cannot admit that your GB and the CCJW are immoral and dishonest. 

CC, Everyone judges people and situations. Jesus judged the Pharisees. And Jesus will judge us. 

You really do seem hung up on condemning James. Your choice of course. I would rather wait to find out if he is innocent or guilty.  IF he is guilty then he should pay the penalty.

BUT so should all the Paedophiles in your CCJW org pay the penalty of the Child Sexual Abuse and suffering they have caused. And your GB should pay the penalty for all the suffering they have caused to people and their sins against God and Christ. 

Quote @César Chávez  an immoral act is an immoral act, no matter how small or big it is. 

I agree with you on that point, but, as far as I am aware,  nothing has been proven against James.

But you are seen here to be making the accusation against James as if you have proof. 

As for your 'Llyod Evans' comment, you show yourself to be very silly.

I have started a book recording information which condemns the CCJW / Watchtower.

Australian Royal Commission, Reclaimed Voices (Netherlands), Charity Commission (UK), IICSA (UK),

numerous law suits in America and Canada, The Utrecht University report in the Netherlands, and in February of this year the Pennsylvania Attorney General / Grand Jury started it's investigation into the CCJW.  

But you still worship your GB and it's immoral Org.

I am actually concerned about people that defend this immorality. It doesn't seem normal for people to want to hide Paedophiles in their Organisation.  Maybe it's people like that, that have lost all credibility with Almighty God and Christ. 

It turns out that you do determine it through religion. Of course, you have to have the right one, and that is mostly a matter of heart, not head.   

Oh another can of worms.  

Jesus was sent to the physical Nation of Israel not to the Gentiles. Matthew 15 v 24.

He answered: “I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Physical Israel could have become Spiritual Israel.  But the majority of Israel rejected Jesus and killed him. 

Matthew 22 is where Jesus spoke an illustration about a King and a Wedding feast. 

verse  2. “The Kingdom of the heavens may be likened to a king who made a marriage feast for his son. ³  And he sent his slaves to call those invited to the marriage feast, but they were unwilling to come.

Those that were unwilling to come were the members of physical Israel, the Jews that stuck to the old traditions of the Jewish way of life.

 Verse 8. Then he said to his slaves, ‘The marriage feast is ready, but those invited were not worthy. ⁹  Therefore, go to the roads leading out of the city, and invite anyone you find to the marriage feast.’ ¹⁰  Accordingly, those slaves went out to the roads and gathered all they found, both wicked and good; and the room for the wedding ceremonies was filled with those dining.

Those that replaced the invited guests represent those Jews who would change the way they served God, to then serve God through Christ,  and the Gentiles that would also serve God through Christ. 

So we can see that God's plan changed from physical Israel inheriting the Kingdom, to physical people of both Jewish and Gentile origin being chosen. 

verse 14 “For there are many invited, but few chosen.”

However, Jesus still came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, only this time it is Spiritual Israel.  

This is confirmed in Revelation 5 v 9&10 

 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, ¹⁰  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

Yes indeed, Jesus Christ came for Israel, but it is Spiritual Israel.  

Woe to anyone that should stand in the way of Spiritual Israel or any of it's members.

For those chosen are indeed the Body of Christ. 

@Ann O'Maly Thank you Ann. What you have written makes good sense.  It was me that criticised Tom about making it known about James' family, but Tom rightly enough put me straight that James had previously mentioned it himself. And it is true that some of us, well me anyway, was thinking that James might have taken his own life.  I only use this forum, so I wouldn't have seen any information elsewhere. 

So it was good news ,bad news, really.  James is not dead, but James is in a 'spot of bother'. 

Thank you again.

@César Chávez  True Christians are supposed to be no part of this world. So, true Christians do not support a government or leader of this world. If a true Christian were to give support to a politician or leader of a country then they would be guilty of being part of this world. 

Transfer that to the CCJW / Watchtower. The GB are guilty of suppressing the true Anointed, misusing scripture and hiding paedophiles in the CCJW organisation. So, anyone supporting the GB and remaining in the CCJW are guilty of the lies and immorality. 

I have previously had conversation with James over these issues, the same as I have had conversation with @JW Insider and @TrueTomHarley and others.  Anyone that remains part of the CCJW at this time, is guilty of supporting a Governing Body that is not serving Almighty God properly and guilty of being part of an immoral organisation. 

Those issues are separate from what James is being accused of.  The issues I have mentioned above have been proven. James' innocence or guilt has not been proven, or I have not seen evidence of it. 

But it would seem to me that you want to convict James, but pretend that the CCJW / Watchtower is clean and pure. 

Quote @TrueTomHarley Is it not slander to take an accusation that would otherwise never go beyond some tiny community billboard and re-broadcast it to the whole world news media .org?

I think you are stretching the idea of the word slander here.  It's not a nice thing to do, but it's only making known an accusation already made. It's not actually making the accusation. Unless we know Ann's motives then we would be judging her without true knowledge. 

 Child Porn USA, After 2013 the Federal Government made it at 18 YEARS and under. 

People are still 'children' under 18 in USA ?  Don't they make soldiers out of them at a younger age ? 

Here in UK people can have sex legally at 16. And girls of 14 years old can go to their GP / Doctor without parental consent, and get contraceptives if they say they are 'in a relationship'. 

Having helped my wife raise 4 of her daughters (my step daughters), I'm glad they are all grown up now. And yes we had a multitude of problems. 

@Nathaniel Compton Quote.   I am waiting to read someone accuses the watchtower and elders for the action of this individual.

Why would someone do that ? 

And it seems you have passed judgement on James already.  You say 'for the actions of this individual'. Whereas you don't know what actions he took, or even if he took any actions at all. 

@César Chávez Quote If you were a righteous advocate, you'd be enraged by James action. Why aren't focused on that?

If I were enraged I would be judging James as guilty. Do you know and do you have proof that James is guilty ?  I doubt it.   As a Christian I will not judge James on an accusation.  

Quote "but let's not change the subject just because you have no genuine credibility with secular authority,"  What is that supposed to mean ?  I have no credibility with you is what you actually mean. 

Quote "A judgement that is NOT yours to have, since you were NOT directly involved, but rather told."

What judgement did I make by reporting the possibility that a child might be in danger ? And also reporting that a young man might need help.  

Just because you would rather 'pass by on the other side of the road', just as the Jews in Jesus' parable, that does not mean I should do the same.  My Christian conscience made it clear to me that I should do as I did. 

I would be very hypocritical if I didn't report, when I complain that Elders didn't report the same type of thing about anyone. Not reporting a person allows that person to continue to be a danger to others. And the possibility that a child continues to be abused. 

But of course you don't seem to care about that. JWs just want their Organisation to look clean, even though it is full of immorality.  

Having looked up this scripture, Luke 12 v 48,  for another reason I noticed something slightly unusual 

Berean Study Bible
But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded

English Standard Version
But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But he who did not know and did something worthy of blows shall be beaten with few blows, for from everyone to whom much is given, much shall be required, and of him to whom they commit much, they shall require more.”

New American Standard 1977
but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. And from everyone who has been given much shall much be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

New World Translation  

 But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

Now it seems to me that to be 'entrusted with' means to take care of.  and to have something committed to you, would seem to mean be responsible for. 

But the GB decided in the NWT to use the idea of being put in charge of. Was this to enforce their own idea of 'being in charge' ?  Lording it over instead of 'taking care of' the congregation. 

I think there has to be a balance between our recognition of both God and Christ

I'm still not sure about Almighty God's true name. YHWH becoming JHVH ? 

God's name has serious meaning so surely changing those letters would change that meaning ? 

And yes, Bible translation is a dilemma. Which Bible to use. I do wish I understood Greek. 

Was no Bible translation inspired by God's Holy Spirit ?  

@Witness Some of your writing i agree with and some i feel is too strong in the opposite direction.  You write 'truth' from your perspective, as we all try to do. As for me I am more confused each day.

I will be 71 in October. Mentally and emotionally I'm ready to be put 'in the dust'.  Physically I'm tired. I've had enough of searching for 'truth', mainly because me mind can no longer hold information long enough to compare things properly. 

I don't know if the GB / CCJW are deliberately playing down Jesus' position. I do know that the GB has written words in the Watchtower to imply that the Anointed should not met together for prayer or Bible study, and that if they meet together they would be 'working against the Holy spirit'.  This would indicate that the GB are worried about the True Anointed having power as a united group. 

@César Chávez  Where you go totally wrong is by comparing your GB to Moses. And by comparing the CCJW and Watchtower to the early Christian congregations.

You seem to fail to understand basic truth. The 1st century Christian congregations were set up by Jesus and the Apostles. Jesus and the Apostles were inspired of God's Holy Spirit.  Many of those 1st Century Christians were Anointed ones, maybe all of them.  You will remember the 120 in the 'upper room' that received Holy Spirit and began speaking in different languages. 

No one in the CCJW or Watchtower is inspired of Holy Spirit. The GB are the leaders of both organisations and the GB admit that they are NOT inspired of God's Holy Spirit. 

I do have the right to judge, as do we all. Otherwise why are 8½ million people JWs ? Many of them came out of other religions. They judged their former religion and then left their former religion.  Everyone makes judgements every day. That's how people make decisions.  

The scriptures you quote had more meaning when they were actually spoken because they were spoken either by Jesus or by Anointed men. They were spoken to Anointed ones.  The Greek scriptures are for the Anointed.   Luke 12 v 48

Berean Study Bible
But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded.

The True Anointed have been given much and entrusted with much, so much more is demanded of them.

I can take judgement from any man and laugh it off, because i know I will be judged by Christ in the end. And as I'm not Anointed then maybe not so much will be demanded of me. I have not forsaken God or Christ, I have only judged an immoral organisation that pretends to serve God. The same way that the CCJW judges the Catholic church and other organisations. 

I could tear your comment apart bit by bit but i see no point. You and I have totally different opinions which we are both entitled to. If God through Christ wants to use the CCJW, then God through Christ will cleanse that organisation. If not then God, through Christ, will build another organisation using the True Anointed. 

But right now the GB are a cause for stumbling, and they are restricting the True Anointed from doing their work. Ref; Luke 12 v 48,  How can the True Anointed do what's demanded of them if they are not even allowed to meet together for prayer and Bible study ? 

@César Chávez Quote "  Don't you think, secular authority need to understand the kind of bias they are dealing with or have you related that to them, the hatred you feel about the Watchtower GB. "

My dislike of the GB was not involved in this case. 

But a good point, and yes I have related to the Police the circumstances of me leaving the CCJW. 

At the bottom of my email to the Police I wrote a paragraph entitled 'Background'. 

It helped to explain why i could not get more information due to 120 people in the congregation no longer talking to me. It also stated that if my name were mentioned in their enquiry then they would probably be met with untruth about me and about the 'incident' concerned. I also mentioned that it would probably be difficult for them to gain any information from any of the Elders of the congregation. I did also mention that I am not sure if the Elders were actually informed of the incident.  So hopefully the Police can bypass the congregation and go directly to the people concerned. 

Quote C. C. "since you are taking the judgment of God and telling him, his structure of government doesn't meet the requirement your heart desires."

Oh dear, more burbling. You still mix up God with the CCJW.  God and Christ are not related to the GB and the CCJW. 

My 'judgement' is of a dishonest disloyal group of 8 men, known as the Governing Body of CCJW, that have given themselves power over others.  These 8 men have judged the True Anointed and have placed themselves above the True Anointed.  These 8 men have judged that they are the F&DS and that no one else is worthy of that title. 

My  'judgement' is also of the CCJW as I needed to judge them for the sake of my Christian conscience. How could i have left them if I didn't judge the organisation as immoral ?  

Anyone that just follows a life of habit in any religion is not being true to God, Christ, or themselves. Each person has to judge everything they do to be able to make use of their conscience. If a person has a good Christian conscience then they will judge fairly and honestly, as I did. 

I am surprised that millions of people have not left the CCJW. It only proves to me that JWs are puppets. It seems that JWs are quite happy to live with the immorality in the CCJW as it serves JWs as a social club.  They seem to have no Christian conscience. 

13 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If that’s was Tom was saying or wanted to say, he would have said it. 

I don't think so. I think Tom is too sly. Tom implies things. 

As an example here, i quote Tom "And, the other person called a “sex beast” from another thread— 

This implies that the 'other person' was only 'called' a 'sex beast'. Whereas all Paedophiles ARE sex beasts.