Patiently waiting for Truth

To all concerned, I didn't start this as a topic. I presume Admin ??? started it using my name, which to me is slightly unfair (and that is putting it politely).

The comment is mine THE TOPIC HEADING ISN'T MINE 

My comment was in relation to a topic concerning A CAVE IN A REMOTE PART OF MEXICO WAS VISITED BY HUMANS 30,000 YEARS AGO ............

It seems that that topic is about evolution and that someone was suggesting that white people were superior to dark skinned people. Hence my comment above as a Question : Wasn't Russell racist ? 

But if it pleases Admin ??? to make it into a topic, then so be it. 

So as it has now become a topic :-  

1 minute ago, César Chávez said:

Wow! You seriously believe the Watchtower would waste it time on such matters instead of concentrating in spiritual matters? If they did, then you could say the Watchtower is run by men and not Gods Holy Spirit. They would be no different from you. I highly disagree with that notion. I don't worship 4jah2me, lol! I, obey God and the sanctity of his word. 😉

The Watchtower is definitely run by Men, and certainly NOT guided by God's Holy Spirit. And the GB seem to be spending their time selling 'real estate' and hiding the money off shore. The GB are different to me in as much as the GB are deliberately misguiding millions of people within the Org and some outside the org too. Plus the GB and their lawyers are happily hiding Paedophiles in the American part of the CCJW. So yes the people you worship, your GB, are very different to me. I have no interest in protecting Paedophiles and i am interested in protecting children and also interested in the Victims of CSA getting compensation, which your GB are deliberately trying to avoid.  You may be 'interested' in serving God, but if you remain in the CCJW then you cannot serve God properly. 

4 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

If you haven't figured it out, it is made for, conflicted witnesses to murmur without impunity! Aside from that, just like Tommy said, it has no worthwhile value to such opinions, especially when the value of scripture is resented. 

But it allows people like you to keep changing their names so I suppose you enjoy it  

It seems that everyone has agendas. They start off with the answer and then build a puzzle to fit their answer. 

Wasn't Russell racist ? 

There seems to be some slight information to make it clear that it is not only JWs being persecuted. So the idea that all other 'religions' are part of the world and therefore not effected, is proven wrong. 

As for leaders of one country telling leaders of another country, how to run their country, we know that America does that all the time. That is why it is such a shame that the rulers of the CCJW are American. Americans have such a domineering attitude and always want to be in charge. 

Quote @Arauna If anyone had doubts that we are living in the time of the end …… they must re-examine the scripturas and look at what is really going on in the world.

Yes but we have been living in the time of the end for a very long time, and it could still be years away. 
Remember it was due in the 70's according to the JW leaders back then. (1967 Watchtower saying last part of last day)

And you @Arauna sound very bitter and judgemental 

I think this Forum and others are used by GB helpers as a measuring stick, to find out people's attitudes towards the GB and it's teachings. I think it is used in 'research' to see how much the GB think they can get away with and how obvious their wrong teachings are. Any sensible business looks for feedback good or bad. And the CCJW is just another business at the moment. They make money from 'real estate' and push that money offshore to hide it. They can research forums and find out how much people 'of the world' know about their wrongdoings. Simples. 

I'll repeat what i wrote earlier for the sake of @Arauna 

It is so obvious to me that a person cannot be a JW and have a good active Bible trained conscience. The two completely contradict one another.  

And who will dare answer my questions about, Does God read hearts of everyone or just JWs ? 

Will God condemn everyone that is not a JW at Armageddon ? 

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Quote @Arauna while the condition of the heart is important - this is the criteria: New American Standard Bible
"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

In this case many JWs will be 'departing' probably including the GB of the CCJW and many 'helpers'.

But I have said many times that I know I will not live through Armageddon so I'm not one of the 'self righteous that Arauna is so OCD about. But I will die in the knowledge that i have warned others of the wickedness of the GB and in the CCJW. 

BUT THE GB STILL DON'T WANT TO PAY COMPENSATION TO VICTIMS OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE AND THE GB STILL HIDE THE AMERICAN PAEDOPHILES IN THEIR CCJW ORG.  IT'S ABOUT TIME THE FBI WENT IN AND GOT THE DATABASE. 

THE GB AND THEIR LAWYERS ARE DISGUSTING IN WORD AND DEED. ALMIGHTY GOD WILL SOON SORT THEM ALL OUT. 

@Srecko Sostart is unfortunate that, we humans, have lost our inner feelings for right and wrong, and that/how belonging to something (religion, politics, philosophy, etc.) becomes a method by which certain good values are achieved or which lead to the opposite side, to the side of evil.

That is why I left the JW organisation, because I DO know right from wrong.    JWs hide in their Org and just see ex JWs and victims of CSA as collateral damage. 

JWs become more like machines, having no real feelings, just obeying the GB through the Elders. They give up their consciences to be accepted in the 'club'. They stop looking for truth because they don't want to find it. They are happy in their 'social club' of 'friends' all serving their GB. 

It is more likely the EX-JWs, that left of their own choice, that will have inner feelings for right and wrong   because they joined the JW org for the right reasons, then they also left the JW Org for the right reasons too. 

It is so obvious to me that a person cannot be a JW and have a good active Bible trained conscience. The two completely contradict one another.  

I haven't yet read all comments, having been away for two days, but there does seem to be a contradiction from people like CC and others that say "God can read hearts " BUT also say "One has to be a Baptised JW to be 'saved' ".

So which is it ?

Are some folks suggesting that God, through Christ, will only look at hearts of JWs? And that anyone else will be condemned just for not being a JW ? 

Anna makes sense here : 

Very deep thinking @Srecko Sostar .   It raises the question, Can spirit persons be killed ?  Will the Devil and his Demons be killed or just restricted permanently ? Revelation 20 v 14 says 

New International Version
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
New Living Translation
Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death.

I'll repeat. TTH never has anything spiritual to say and very rarely anything sensible either. But it's good to know he is still alive and well. And it's nice to know the two of them have story telling in common, but hey, that's what JWs do isn't it, just make up stories.  

32 minutes ago, Arauna said:

What about the above scriptures quoted by Cesar do you not understand.

Matthew 18:15-17 ¹⁵"If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. ¹⁶But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' ¹⁷If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Do you mean this one ? Well this scripture proves that your GB disobeys scripture.  Because your GB or previous leaders have imposed such secrecy into the procedure of disciplining.  The 'church' or congregation do not have any facts or details but are still expected to shun people, just on the say so of Elders / CO's decisions. 

NOW imagine if every Paedophile accusation had been told to the church, to the congregation as a whole. Then no one could have been accused of hiding Paedophiles in the congregations, AND no Paedophile would have had the opportunity to prey on more than one victim. 

So remember those words at Matthew 18 v 17  TELL IT TO THE CHURCH. 

Even though your GB decided to change that scripture to this :-

¹⁷  If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector

Whereas all the others say this :-

New International Version
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

English Standard Version
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Berean Study Bible
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Berean Literal Bible
And if he fails to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he fails to listen to even to the church, let him be to you as the pagan and the tax collector.

New American Standard Bible
"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

New King James Version
And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

King James Bible
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Do you understand now ? 

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

You are denying all the scriptures in the bible which refers to this.  So you are deliberately obtuse.  you are saying God is making an abnormal rule......You talk like an atheist. Why should I take you seriously when you do not take the bible seriously.  You say you accept the bible …… but only the parts you like.

I've asked to see these Scriptures quoted on here.  All those supposedly direct scriptures about Shunning. So come on lets see them. 

Show me a scripture which refers to a person of good Bible trained conscience  leaving an immoral organisation and why that person should be shunned, when it is not that person that has committed sin but the Leaders of that organisation and people in that organisation that has committed the sins........... I think @Witness said , it is us that should be shunning the CCJW and it's GB. But no, the GB make rules so that we cannot show proof to JWs exactly how perverted the CCJW really is. But my conscience is clear in that I make it known the best ways i can, to try to help people stay safe from Paedophiles and from the lies taught in the CCJW.  

Quote @Arauna " Seen enough of your warped accusations and logic. As I said before - you feed off your hate somehow...which is not based on justice.  It is based on raw emotion of hate for everything to do with JWs, GB. "

I am sorry that you are so unwell and not able to understand English, and that you love making accusations against me, but that you hate that i make accusations against the GB or the CCJW. 

I have said many times that the CCJW does have some basic truthful foundations. However those truthful foundations were established many years ago and are only in agreement with what the Bible teaches. So the CCJW has not actually done anything marvelous in agreeing with God's written word. 

By reading what you say about me, I imagine you would have said similar to Jesus about how he spoke to the Pharisees. I only mention faults where faults exist, just as Jesus did.

As for 'groundhog day', the phrase means nothing to me, I'm not American so don't care to know what it is supposed to mean.  If you have something to tell me please use English phrases as examples not American ones. And yes I do have dislike for Americanism, their idea that collateral damage is a good excuse for people's suffering does not sit well with me. 

Thank you @Srecko Sostar I hadn't seen this information anywhere before, but I'm sure God and Christ are watching the GB and it's Org closely, and hopefully justice will be done soon. 

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Typical, 4Jah did not like this sentence.  He just likes the JWs to carry the blame to fulfill his hate-ocd.  He is not really interested in justice.... the perpetrator can go free and the JWs must 'pay' the penalty...… that is HIS kind of justice... (capitals deliberate).  The typical unreasonable guy I would NOT like to have as a friend.

 

@Arauna  Um wow, you seem to  think you know my inner thoughts now.  You know what I'm interested in and what I'm not do you ? Once proven the Paedophiles in the CCJW should have been exposed immediately and disfellowshipped immediately. The whole congregation should have been told the names and so should people outside the congregations.  But no, they were kept hidden in the congregations. It's not my fault that you GB and Elders wanted to hide those Paedophiles inside the CCJW. And that the GB and their Lawyers are still hiding Paedophiles in the American part of the CCJW by not handing over that 20+ year Database containing ALL the names and details of the American Paedophiles in your Org. 

I would not like to be your friend either as you seem to like the Paedophiles being in the CCJW more than you love God.

And the hypocrites are you and the CCJW members that stand up for the GB in it's disgusting acts. And the point being proven on this topic is that the GB Lawyer deliberately PRETENDED / LIED  that SHUNNNING  was not practised within the CCJW.   

Another point is that if a person leaves the CCJW your GB and Elders are frightened to tell the congregation that fact. They deliberately hide the FACT that MANY JWs are chosing to LEAVE  the CCJW of their own choice, and they are leaving because of faults in the Org , not because they have faults in themselves. Your Organisation is corrupt, your GB are corrupt, your service to God is invalid. It is just a habit that you all continue to do because you do not know right from wrong. 

What rubbish you people talk @JW Insider  @TrueTomHarley @Arauna 

Especially Tom as he can only make, what he thinks are jokes. His mind doesn't seem capable of sensible thinking. Poor man.

As for JWI, making very weak excuses for the GB and their Lawyers.  It just doesn't cut it. No one with any sense will believe you.

And i note you are using the WTS, not the CCJW. However the Leaders are in control of both, but pretended they are not connected to either, in court if I remember correctly. 

The Leaders of the CCJW / JW organisation made the rules that Child Sexual Abuse was to be dealt with internally and that outside authorities and the Police were not  to be notified. They also made the rules that Paedophiles were to kept hidden in the congregations. No announcement was to be made to the congregation and no name was to be given out. They also made the rule of using the Two Witness rule against victims. They also made the rule that Victims had to face the Paedophile that they were accusing. They also made the rule that the victim could not have a person to support them in the room whilst they were being questioned or when they had to face the Paedophile. A child had to be 'alone' without support, in a room with the Paedophile that had assaulted them, and also being questioned by three men. 

NOW YOU TELL ME THAT THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. What rubbish you talk. 

Remember that the money was there in the Org when these things were taking place. That money was probably invested and grew much profit. It's not all new money. So those that were victims of CSA deserve an apology and a payout. BUT no, the GB think it is their money. And you JWI said  "In most cases they are just using the law to protect the financial interests of the client." YES JWI, you have it in one. 

BUT they are misusing the law by directly telling LIES. And the GB / Lawyers have no interest in honesty, love, mercy or justice. It is all just Collateral Damage, so as to keep the money pot full in the CCJW. Mr Rook knew that too. 

What hypocrites you people really are. To pretend to people that the CCJW is such a safe place and so loving, when you know it's so untrue. Never mind, Almighty God will sort the GB out and form a true religion with the True Anointed. 

13 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I notice you are getting picky on silly acronyms - where I come from we do not use them but in USA they are popular... so I use them on this forum.   God is only a title..... so do not pick a fight on silly things to get away from being exposed.

Um, even Jehovah didn't get a capital letter. And how to you think I am 'being exposed' ? You are such a strange lady. 

@JW Insider  You seem to be deliberately missing the whole point. 

The GB deliberately use these Lawyers.  I don't know if these Lawyers are actually part of the CCJW / Watchtower Soc, but that matters not. The GB knows exactly what it is doing by employing these lawyers. 

Whereas Jesus said, recorded at  Matthew 5 

³⁸  “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ ³⁹  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. ⁴⁰  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment; ⁴¹  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. ⁴²  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.

So now, would you like to continue to follow the dishonest GB, or would you prefer to follow Jesus and serve God properly. 

6 hours ago, Anna said:

No, that they would die at Armageddon.

21 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Do you mean they feared that if they left, Jehovah’s Witnesses would kill them?

No, that they would die at Armageddon.

@Anna has it in one.  This fear installed in JWs that they must be part of the CCJW to survive Armageddon.

The old teaching that the CCJW is the 'new' Ark.  Problem is, the original ARK was spiritually clean, but the new ark isn't. The original ARK was inspired by God, the 'new ark' isn't.  

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

We expect anything to happen. So we will just go on worshipping jehovah and obeying his laws by self-regulation.

Your world will fall apart.  Because the purpose of your life seems to be to oppose JWs, GB..... so when this purpose is no longer there, the meaning for your life will be gone. Your goal is not to obey god and you do not accept any help to do so in a better way. The GB only faciliteates our faith.

Dear lady. WHEN will you be able to tell the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN Almighty God, and, your GB. 

I notice that the GB get capital letters but GOD doesn't even get a Capital G. Even the name Jehovah doesn't get a capital J.  Now I think that shows where your love is. 

When your GB are no longer there then I may be able to return to a religion which will have God's approval through Christ. But whilst your GB are poisoning the CCJW then it is too unclean to be part of. When the True Anointed 'stand up' and take their proper place, then there will be true worship of God, then i can move forward. But, I'm not impatient, I can wait and watch and hopefully I will be able to serve God properly through Christ when the time is right. But as I've said before, i do not expect the 'reward'. Many men went to war knowing that they would not survive but they continued to 'do their duty'. I feel that if i am able to fight for Truth then that is enough reward for me. 

CC is such a comedian. Worshipping the GB as usual. you will have such a shock when they fall. 

Quote CC. "Now, the answer of Bother Jackson was, the GB are equal to the other members as far as spirituality is concerned, "

Which is quite funny as the GB CALL THEMSELVES the Faithful and discreet Slave. ONLY those 8 men. So that is spiritually exalting themselves above the rest of the Anointed. And then they tell the rest of the Anointed that they must not gather together to study the Bible or have association, or the GB say the other Anointed would  be "working against the Holy Spirit".  Now, what gives the GB the right to 'beat their fellow slaves' ? What gives the GB the right to give orders to other Anointed if they are all spiritually equal ? 

It is complete hypocrisy of course.