Patiently waiting for Truth

Oh it all makes such fun reading. I was bored but you lot have given me a good laugh. Thank you .

Lets start here : Quote @TrueTomHarley When Fauci says people may die if they do not wear a mask, do people take it that he means to kill them himself? When the fire department says you may die if you don’t change the batteries of your smoke detector, does it mean they are going to do the deed themselves.

When John Butler said the GB may be 'removed' did John Butler then mean that HE was going to remove them himself ? No, just as TTH has written above, John Butler was not issuing a threat. It follows the same principle that TTH uses above. But John Butler was disfellowshipped from this forum, so that shows Control by the Elders that run this forum. 

Quote TTH “Those people could be manipulated,” Sanderson said. “They could be controlled. They could be made to do the most wicked things because they were afraid.”

That’s manipulation. That’s control. That’s the consequence—shall we say it?—of not being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses

No, what we can say is that all the JW Circuit Overseers, Elders and Ministerial Servants, that deliberately HID Child Sexual Abuse in the congregations were CONTROLLED by the Leaders of the CCJW. And we can say that the GB HAS CONTROL over the 20 + year Database containing information about hundreds of Paedophiles in the USA CCJW. 

Now that is manipulation. That is Control  And why ?

Quote @Anna  But some opposers will say they were held in slavery by the JW religion because of the fear of death because if they didn't do what was right they were going to die. 

BUT it wasn't a case of doing what was right. It was just doing as they were ordered. "Keep it all secret in the Org so as not  to bring God's name to shame"  What a weak excuse. 

And then we have the SHUNNING, where people lose all of their family and friends if they don't obey orders from the GB. Now that is control and manipulation.

Add to this the THREAT from the GB / Leaders of the CCJW. "If a person is not a BAPTISED  JW they will not be saved through Armageddon" 

And, the further threat from the GB, "If any of the Anointed should meet together for bible study or association that will be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT" 

If you do not see all this as control and manipulation it is because you are being CONTROLLED AND MANIPULATED. 

TTH says "Such opposers are just upset that faith has power—

You have it backwards Tom. It is the GB and the other leaders of the CCJW that are upset, because FAITH has power. The Faith of those that serve God through Christ, not through the GB.  That is why the GB tell the true Anointed not to gather together, because the GB are afraid. Remember Matthew 18 v 20 that where two or more gather in Christ's name, He will be there with them. How your GB are frightened of that happening. 

Tom, if you need to kid yourself that people that leave the CCJW forget about God and Christ, then it is just showing your insecurity. You show that you are worried that the true Anointed remnant may be getting the Holy Spirit that your Org is lacking. 

Quote JW Insider  (My computer will not let me tag) 

I do not defend them as the equivalent of "the faithful and discreet slave." That, to me, and perhaps even according to the words of Brother Jackson of the GB, is a pretty presumptuous and haughty assumption, therefore not in keeping with being faithful and discreet. I am making an assumption that this is a serious error, 

Of course it is a serious error, but in my opinion it is deliberate. It deliberately exalts them above their FELLOW SLAVES. Which in turn makes them the EVIL SLAVE that beats his Fellow Slaves. AND, to me it shows that they are saying that  'The Master Is Delaying'.

All the hype about the last second of the last minute of the last hour of the last day of the last week of the time of the end, proves how much they are saying that 'the Master is delaying'. The leaders of the Org were saying this same thing in the late 1960's. 

So I have to disagree with you when you say " but it does not discredit all the work they do. ".  I think it totally discredits everything they do. And the way they are still hiding the CSA database, and still not cooperating with the Superior Authorities in America and Australia, also discredits anything else they do. 

Now I wonder, if the complete number of the Anointed remnant were all the F&DS, and if all of them had been given a voice concerning the CSA in America and Australia, what would have been the outcome ? Do you see my point here? The GB are frightened of losing complete control over the rest of the Anointed remnant. They actually said that the Anointed would be 'working against the Spirit' if they were to meet together for spiritual study and association. 

• “We Want to Go With You”
• The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom (Simplified)—2016

⁸ Anointed Christians do not feel that they should spend time only with other anointed ones, as if they were members of a club. They do not try to find other anointed ones so that they can talk about being anointed or meet in groups to study the Bible. (Galatians 1:15-17) The congregation would not be united if anointed ones did this. They would be working against the holy spirit, which helps God’s people to have peace and unity. 

This is the Governing Body that you approve of is it ? The GB you say that are not discredited ? 

Quote I have a feeling that you are too quick to jump on any place where someone finds a reason not to support a specific teaching of the GB, 

Um, yes, their ideas on masturbation not being porneia was one. And their idea of, if a man and a woman spend time in the same building together, they are automatically accused of having sex. and then there was Pillowgate  .

Quote  You recently asked about a translation issue where I think that the great majority of the 700 verses that were translated with the "prove to be" construct in the NWT were unnecessary, and some potentially misleading 

I was always taught by JWs (when I started studying)  that the NWT was translated by the help of God's Holy Spirit. Therefore I believed it without question. I've since realised that the GB and the previous Leaders never had and do not have God's holy spirit as guidance. As an example the scripture where Thomas says "the Holes in the Hands where the Nails passed through "   and then the Org / GB produce a book with a picture of Jesus on the stake with ONE nail through His WRISTS.  I don't even have to dig deep to find fault. It is all there on the surface for all to see. 

I don't even like the phrase 'torture stake' and I think in truth the word is just 'stake' 

Quote TrueTom Harley  You mean the wife whom you said deserves sainthood for putting up with you? 

Misquoting me again Tom. I said she does not deserve criticism from me. And it was very strange that Arauna suggested i do such a thing. But then ............. 

Quote TTH : You blasted idiot! Don’t sin! 

We all sin Tom. Sometimes it is accidentally, sometimes deliberately. 

” Where’s the faith?  I have faith that God through Christ will accomplish all He wants to accomplish. And Christ will judge my wife separately to me. I try to be realistic in my faith and my thoughts. Although most of you do not think I am. 

Quote TTH : " Drop this ridiculous obsession against the GB .."   I can imagine someone in the Sanhedrin saying to Jesus ' Drop this ridiculous obsession against the Pharisees'.. I hope you get the point here

Does no one know or does no one want to answer ? 

Jesus came to earth to give his life deliberately, so I've never really given much thought to Judas. It seems Judas was just used to do a job of identifying Jesus. It was a process that had to follow through. I wouldn't have put it so bluntly as to say Judas killed Jesus however. 

Totally off topic but. Google are telling me this forum is 'Not Secure' and keep giving my red triangle warnings. 

@JW Insider  BUT JB never even got one warning, and it would have been the moderators that reported JB to admin. It was nothing to do with 'threats to the GB' was it ? It was the true fact that things could happen if God wanted them to happen. I seriously do think all this info' on this forum, and other forums etc,  is used by the GB helpers as feedback, and I believe that some Elders on here deliberately push people to give more info'. BUT when JB gave true info it wasn't liked, so he had to be removed. It seems the GB and their helpers are frightened of losing their power. (And yes I do expect to get thrown off here for being truthful  ). 

Quote JWI : I can't believe all those "laughing" emojis I get from you are given because you think I am saying something comedic, especially when it's little more than a scripture quote that you appear to be laughing at.

I laugh if i find things funny. And i find plenty of things funny on here. But i laugh at you because you jump from one side of the fence to the other and then back again. You'll make a comment which shows some stupidity of the GB and when I pick up on it, then you jump to their defence. It really is funny JWI.  I quite often show my wife your comments. 

Quote @Arauna : We JWs do NOT condone pedophilia ….or any form of porneia…..

How do you know ? Have you asked ALL JWs ?  Obviously some JWs loved paedophilia as it was kept hidden in the Org for a very long time and was committed by Elders, Ministerial Servants and congregants. It is still kept hidden in your wonderful America because you wonderful GB refuse to hand over the sick information to the Superior Authorities that they tell others to obey. 

You say that I accuse all JWs, but you are trying to clear all JWs of blame. Sorry it doesn't work. Remember the internet is now full of the Child Sexual Abuse info' within the CCJW Earthwide. It can no longer be kept hidden from view. The scripture says things committed in darkness will come out into the light. And how true that is. 

Quote Arauna One question:  when are you going to get ready for the end? 

I am ready. I don't expect to survive Armageddon. Hopefully I will die before. I'm 70 and those with medical knowledge told me 5 years ago that i have prostate cancer. Add to that the high blood pressure etc, bang.  I live one day at a time and thank God for the life i have, but I know that I sin a lot. Plus the point that your GB etc say that if I'm not a JW then I won't be saved at Armageddon, so I don't have any hope do I  ?  I don't take it too seriously Arauna. I've had 70 years of life. That's enough for me. Most of it was horrible, so I don't mind being dead and knowing nothing at all. 

Quote @Anna Do you really think that? I think you are completely wrong and are confusing this forum with a congregation. Nobody wants anybody to get thrown out of here.

Well someone had John Butler 'thrown out of here' that's for sure, and yes I think Tom wants me thrown out of here.  

This forum is like a congregation, run by elders, and probably used by the GB helpers as feedback.  JWI could be working for both sides , double spy. 

Quote @Anna Very often this has nothing to do with any actual "truth" or "facts" but everything to do with that person's attitude and desire to do what they want.

Do you live in a cave ? Do you not know about the EARTHWIDE CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE in the CCJW ? 

Do you not know that the GB refuse to apologise to the victims of CSA ?  Do you not know that the GB / Lawyers refuse to cooperate with the USA Superior Authorities  ? The GB refuse to hand over that 23 year Database of PAEDOPHILES IN THE USA part of the CCJW. 

And you say it has nothing to do with TRUTH. In fact the GB have nothing to do with TRUTH. 

Then you have the GB spouting about the 'Final part of the Final day, of the Final Days' BUT the Org did all that in the 1960's Watchtower. And the 'Stay Alive till 75'.

Yes the internet makes all this TRUTH available to everyone. So, people that are looking to serve God properly will turn away from the CCJW / Watchtower. Sensible people will keep their eyes on the Org to see when or if God through Christ will clean out the disgusting things in the Org, or if God through Christ will set up a new Org. What true Christian people want to do is serve God properly, hence they leave the CCJW.   Others, that use the Org as a social club, are too frightened to leave, because they will lose all of their 'friends' 

Quote @Arauna Depends on your inclination and the subject.  Here on this forum you hold up well because there is only one view spewed by you.. a destructive one.  I think I can make a good case for NOT watching videos against JWs.  You are a good example of it ...... your hate-…... seems to be fueled by watching all these videos against JWs which are spinned and propagandized in a certain way.

I READ news articles and i try my best to read them from different sources. I don't watch videos. I can never understand what they are saying on the videos. As for HATE, Arauna HATE seems to be YOUR favorite word. I would say you have OCD about it.   I love those close to me as i know them well enough to have reason to love them. JWs don't have love, they just pretend. It is so obvious because they would not be able to just switch it off like they do if it was real love. I still haven't seen any true use of scripture, that would say SHUN those that leave the CCJW for the right reasons. 

On 7/7/2020 at 2:16 PM, Arauna said:

you made that connection. Judas killed someone that was close to him - Jesus- and then committed suicide.

Do you think Judas killed Jesus ?  I thought the Romans did the killing. The Jewish religious leaders wanted it done of course. Judas led the officers to Jesus, but Judas didn't kill Jesus. Do we truly know Judas' motives ? Have you judged Judas a murderer ? 

There is a 4 letter word very suitable for MR HARLEY (although that word means something useful whereas Mr Harley obviously is not) and I'm sure he would love me to use it. His aim is to get me disfellowshipped from this Forum. OK tom enjoy trying. I still forgive you your slander against me. 

He is getting worrying though. He sounds as if he is heading toward a nervous breakdown. Mr Rook is no longer here, will tom be next to go ?? Watch this space  

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Just remember : it is much easier to critisize than to build up, easier to destroy than to show love.  When you are ready to destroy, one can use just about use anything as a weapon and you can hold your own because it is easier to break than unify.   Try it on your wife and you will see I am speaking truth.  

Horrible suggestion but nothing that i wouldn't expect from a JW. My wife does nothing deserving of criticism. And she puts up with me so deserves praise. As for your idea that "it is much easier to critisize than to build up, easier to destroy than to show love." I totally disagree. It is just as easy to do both. Some of you JWs do have strange ideas about life. 

@Arauna  talks about ordinary people of less education, of which I am one. She says they cannot hold their own against some on here. I find that funny. Truth is truth and lies are lies no matter who a person is or whatever education they have had. And then it's even funnier when she decides to 'put me down' over my comment to Tom. @Anna basically said the same thing to Tom, only using different words. My words are basic and 'raw' because I am of lower education and therefore express myself in a 'raw' way. 

@JW Insider  So you are basically saying that the CCJW added words to God's written word. Isn't that a rather large sin especially for Anointed ones? 

Quote @Anna  I believe there has been some success on the part of opposers in bringing the friends away. It was confirmed by a trustworthy elder, as I already mentioned in one of my posts.

It would be nice to have a deeper explanation of this comment above.

Is it 'opposers' that have led people away, OR, is it, Truth spoken that has led people away ?  The most horrible person on earth could still speak truth on some subjects. That truth could change the opinion of others. But the opposers of that 'horrible' person would say it was the person that led people away.... That is why, on here, I always Vote a comment and not a person. It is the message that is important not the person. 

Quote @TrueTomHarleyDid you forget that I have television? I can see how obedient they are.

The UK lock down was obeyed by most people, not all, but most. The shops closed. The pubs closed. People were furloughed.  So many people stayed home and did food shopping online that for a month it was impossible to actually get a delivery slot. We had pre-planned and had a good stock of most items. The businesses that would normally deliver to hotels and eating establishments, changed their routine and started doing home deliveries to private houses. We bought lots from them. We are in a good position that cost doesn't matter. (money is for a protection).  You will of course know that the media hype up the things that sell the news. 

Peer-pressure is nothing if you have a strong character. And it is even less if you have a good Bible based conscience. Your problem Tom is that you seem to 'need to think' all non JWs are weak or wicked people.    As for my 60's clothing, it was smart and tidy, 70's was a bit different but it was all good fun. If you looked dorky that is your problem, I never looked dorky that's for sure. If looking different means looking dorky to you then it is you that lacks personality. Either that or you are so brainwashed by the CCJW that everything different seems wrong to you. 

Quote TTH. The reason that the GB can say ‘follow the direction of secular authority’ and still have that count as spiritual guidance is that (with some exaggeration) JWs can do it, and non-believers cannot.

Perhaps Tom is only talking about Americans here. 

In the UK most people followed the instructions of the government. My son even told his employer that he wasn't going to work, and that was before lock down started here in England. He self isolated with my wife and I, as a family in one household. We even had a stock of food bigger than a GO BAG, and still have. 

Tom talks as if everyone outside that CCJW org is a criminal or rebel. It's that old JW talk, 'Don't mix with those outside they belong to the devil'.   Grow up Tom and get real.  That 'GB Helper' made himself and the CCJW look stupid by his statement. Live with it.  

@Arauna " Which flesh will stand in the Day of Jehovah?  Those who have the mark of the Christian personality, call on the name of Jehovah and are found in peace with Jehovah. "

BUT, does this mean being baptised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses ?

The CCJW org says a person MUST be as above. 

If so, then the CCJW has to be much cleaner than it is now. And of course it needs True Anointed ones to lead it. 

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Quote @Anna Here I am not so sure.......saying that the GB advice is proof of God's backing very much hovers on the borders of the "woo" factor. As if for example the catholic church did something right, are we supposed to think this is proof they have God's backing? By the same token we should.  (JWI mentioned something along similar lines).

It's nice to see some balance Anna. To some extent the GB are running a massive business and trying to look after its interests. So they use common sense in some things. It does not take God's guidance to look outside and see rain then suggest to your friend that they wear a raincoat and use an umbrella. Similarly with Covid-19. There is enough information and proof of consequences for the GB to be able to make a sensible decision about it without God's guidance.  So for a GB helper to say it is proof of God's guidance or backing, is not sensible. And of course it gives ammo to those in opposition.

Jesus said something like " Even though you are wicked, which one of you would give your son a stone, if he asked for a fish."   What I'm saying is, people in the world also look after their families and do what is best for them, but it does not show God is guiding them. I think those in a position of responsibility in the CCJW should be more careful with their words. 

Oh dear, once again Tom has nothing to say but writes a lot.

And I see he isn't  knocking me this time. This time it is Srecko he is putting down. But in fact Srecko is right, not Tom. 

Such a shame that Tom and Arauna are blinded by the GB. What will they do when those GB are no longer there ? 

And hopefully people search in the Bible and ask God for guidance through Jesus Christ. And then Christ, who has been given ALL authority, will guide them with holy spirit. 

And hopefully those people will stay away from the CCJW and keep away from Kingdom Halls until Christ has cleansed that unclean organisation, or even replaced that organisation with a clean one.

And soon may the true Anointed take their rightful place as leaders of God's people here on earth.  

As for shaking your heads. No. A person that has true faith in God through Christ should be holding their head high and giving praise and thanks to God through Christ. I don't want anyone nice to die but it would be wonderful if the Judgement came soon, even though i doubt I will see the other side of it. Mans inhumanity to man is horrendous, mans wickedness towards all living things is sickening, and mans destruction of this wonderful planet is disgusting. Soon may God's Kingdom come, Soon many God's will be done, here on Earth and in Heaven. 

Yes, the leaders of the CCJW seem to be an embarrassment to the basic JW boots on the ground. 

But what Tom said was : It is odd that so many here will deride scholars for their view on evolution—and will lap up whatever they have to say on every other point. 

Whereas you @Arauna are talking about people generally... 

It gets a little irritating when someone deliberately tries to change direction. But i suppose I'm just as guilty at times  

Wow, Does this mean my family had God's backing then when we decided to self isolate, myself with my wife and son. And when my son told his employer that he would not be attending work, days before the UK lock down started. Does it indicate that God is with me ? I think not. It just indicates that we used common sense. 

The GB used common sense that is all.