Patiently waiting for Truth

It will be continually repeated again and again, until God works through Christ and the True Anointed to cleanse the CCJW. And until the GB are replaced by those True Anointed to serve God properly. All this will take place through God's Holy Spirit, NOT through ordinary men. 

Do you people think that God stopped performing miracles forever ? Do you think Christ will not battle with the devil and demons that are at work in the CCJW. The other option is for a new way of serving God to appear by Holy Spirit. 

As @Witness has said time and time again, the Temple is the living stones, the true Anointed, the Body of Christ. So how can the GB working through the Elders, tread them down as they do ? 

@César Chávez Billy the Kid and whatever other titles you use. 

Is one group of sufferers more important than another group of sufferers, if the suffering of innocent people is cause by injustice ? 

@JW Insider Sorry i totally disagree with your viewpoint. 

Quote :  Some were probably cases of incest, and crimes of opportunity, where the children are no longer in danger after they leave the household. (And this is another reason why the WTS would want to protect the privacy of such a database.)

The Earthwide Organisation isn't very consistent then is it ? Australia handed over the 50 years worth of information, it seems.

The UK, after a court case I believe, handed over the information. BUT HQ America, the GB and their Lawyers, refuse to hand over the Database. They also refuse to apologise to those victims in Australia and to join the redress scheme. 

And I repeat that if Australia had 50 years of info', then America must also have 50 years of info'. Not just a pretend 20 year database. And if the info goes back that far (50 years) then GB members and Writing Department members could be on it. And maybe that is the reason the GB / Lawyers are hiding it all. 

And do you really think Almighty God gives Holy Spirit to those 8 men that are so mean and selfish. Hiding all that perverted information about thousands of paedophiles. 

And once again the physical man has to insult me. Quote "You moron, ................ What a hateful loon!"  Mr Harley is obviously deeply hurt, and i forgive him his insults to me. 

Quote JWI "Even back in the early 1990's a brother in Writing who had worked in the Service Department for several years estimated (to me) that every congregation of 100 people has had at least one. (That's also 1%.)"

A brother of that standing would not make a wild guess off the top of his head. He would have some knowledge to base it on. I would call that inside information. 

And TTH's idea that just because other religions, clubs etc, have a greater number of paedophiles, it is all ok for the CCJW to have thousands. What i cannot understand though is, if as TTH says, no one else kept any records, then how does anyone know exactly how many  paedophiles / victims those other organisations had. How to you compare JW records with no records at all ? 

@JW Insider Wow, 1 in 100.  so that database that the GB / Lawyers are withholding is going to be massive. no wonder they are keeping it secret.  Is there any update on this yet ? 

Fast Facts—United States of America   https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/worldwide/US/

• 1,237,054—Ministers who teach the Bible
• 12,594—Congregations
• 1 to 273—Ratio of Jehovah’s Witnesses to population
• My estimate Roughly 100 per congregation  because some won't actually be preaching / reporting. 

So that brother in 'Writing / Service Department' had inside information. and he said EVERY congregation of 100 people has had at least one paedophile. So that gives us 12,594 Paedophiles in USA alone. And each paedophile abuses more than on child usually. 

Um, have the GB destroyed that Database ? And if Australia had records going back 50 years then USA would also have records going back 50 years. 

And Arauna wonders why people are concerned. And TTH just keeps cracking silly jokes and being sarcastic.  Because to them it is just Collateral Damage. 

@Arauna says "Less than .0001 percent of JWs are pedophiles and in most of these cases the victims did not have enough proof in front of elders... because it is a hidden crime. 

BUT,  the organisation insisted on TWO WITNESSES. for what Arauna states is a HIDDEN CRIME 

Thank you Arauna. You admit it is a HIDDEN CRIME and it has been proven by child psychologists that children did not have enough knowledge of the subject to make those things up. BUT still the Org demanded TWO WITNESSES.  

The reason you think the % is so low is that most were never confirmed as paedophiles due to Elders not believing the child victims, or because the paedophile was an Elder being protected by other Elders. 

You seem very worried about money but it is merely a material possession. Jesus and His closest followers had no money, nor even a place to lay their heads. And Jesus told the 'rich man' to get rid of all his possessions to follow Christ. I am willing to walk away from everything that i own, to walk away in just the clothes I am wearing, to follow Christ, to serve God. I have that faith. That is why I am looking for truth. 

The CCJW cannot move forward as it is. It has to be cleansed of all it's immorality. Don't you understand, it has to STAND OUT as being the ONLY PURE WORSHIP....... At the moment it is just one more immoral religion no different to all the rest. 

How will people know if it is 'serving God properly', as it so unclean ?  How will people see the difference ? 

Is there supposed to be a great influx of people before Armageddon ? Does Jesus, as the Good Shepherd, want to save those lost sheep ? Those that have been stumbled by the unjust deeds of the Organisation.

I care not if you call me OCD. Why indeed should I care ? I wonder if the Pharisees would have called Jesus such ? 

I know in my heart that I'm seeking truth, and if the CCJW gains God's approval through Christ, then I will rejoin it, if that is God's will.

Quote @Arauna  And how will you know it is not an imposter anointed group trying to take over in the congregation...… ever thought of that????   I take you a bet you have not thought of this because practical matters are not your forte..

Ye of little faith. I have said many times. " but the GB will be removed by God through Christ, or they will stand down when God's time is right for it to happen.."

Arauna, you may be practical, but i would rather be spiritual.  By their works you will know them. We've seen the works of the 'all American' GB. (7 out of 8). And all white GB (7 out of 8). Whereas the Organisation is Earth wide, of all nations and tribes. 

Imagine the Israelites saying to Moses 'What a dumbo leading us to the Red Sea, we got no chance of survival now'.

FAITH in Almighty God through Jesus Christ. And it will come to pass. The GB will be removed and replaced. 

But @Witness says it much better than I can. 

I wish more people would speak out against the GB, but the GB will be removed by God through Christ, or they will stand down when God's time is right for it to happen..

Egotism : The GB calling themselves the Faithful and Discreet Slave. The GB saying that only they, those 8 men, are that Slave, and that the other Anointed should not meet together for bible study etc, when those 8 men meet together all the time. The GB saying that 'God and Christ trusts them' and that therefore 'all JWs should trust them'. 

THAT is Egotism. 

mentioned before, you are a physical man not a spiritual man

Quote @Arauna :  Judgment mmmm…..going to deep as you cannot read hearts.

@Arauna  I'm only giving back on what I receive from Tom and for you.  

Tow writes : I wonder if the yo-yo has taken to plastering a ‘Question Authority’ bumper sticker on his Yugo. Probably not, because there is only one authority that he cares about—unless he has modified it to: “Question GB Authority.” This will cause all his neighbors to think he is nuts, but perhaps they already think it.

You write :  Some people do not even cooperate with others because they feel it encroaches on their autonomy...… those usually have a problem with all types of authority.  Hmmmm.

So, I see those comments as not being at all spiritual. And I repeat that i have never seen a spiritual comment from Tom. But no real harm done and no bad feelings felt for either of you. And yes my dislike is for the GB and for things i see as not being honest or not showing mercy or justice within the CCJW organisation. Jesus said we should love our enemies, but that is easier said than practiced. 

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Yeah, but you act like one here. Even free birds have the sense to understand when they are hatched what their survival Intel. They don't have the mindset of a human, but they still learn skills. What's the excuse then for people? 

For you Billy the Kid, there is no excuse. 

Tom, that green soft top is much better than the thing i drive daily. I don't have a rag top right now, but if I sell the scooter I might well buy a Suzuki Vitara, 4x4, rag top. Great for using as photographers car when the weather is nice, and great for going out in the snow in winter. 

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Are that old-timer cars?, can you show some photos. I had Citroen DS 1973, before 35 years. Now i am sad that i sold it. I can only watching YouTube and see how expensive these cars are now.    

The DS is a nice vehicle. They look lovely. You should have kept it.......  I have 3 cars, 1 van, 1 motor scooter. I dare not show people the one i mainly drive, which is a 1961 car.  My van is small and scruffy, like me . My wife has a 1970 Morris Minor, which lives in the car port and hardly ever sees daylight.  She has a small blue car, a modern thing, which is her daily transport. The Motor Scooter is an LML, like a Vespa, but it is automatic. Hopefully it will be sold soon as I do not like it and do not use it.... Two of the cars are very cheap to run as they are MOT exempt (don't need to be examined for road safety) and are tax exempt (don't have to pay to use them on the roads). So it only cost money for insurance and fuel.... The thing with vehicles is this. If you treat a vehicle well and look after it, it will work well and not cause you any trouble. BUT, no matter how nicely you treat people you cannot be sure they will not cause you trouble. I much prefer vehicles  .... 
 

As far as using social media concerning CSA, i have warned many people about contact with Jehovah's Witnesses. I even have a FB page dedicated to such. I upload many articles straight from source. Of course i do not know the honesty or dishonesty of the articles, but I leave it up to the people that read them to make up their own mind. So I'm not exactly a bystander when it comes to warning others about the CCJW. But outside of that i see everything else as 'the world', and none of us can solve the 'world's' problems. Space Merchant sees things totally differently. That is his choice. His life and his situation is probably totally different to mine. Arauna has admitted to obeying the GB, so that is her choice. Whether she obeys blindly and does everything according to 'the book' is also her choice. Mr Harley is just a comedian and a writer looking for input for his next book, so cannot be taken seriously. I have yet to read a spiritual comment from him. Srecko seems to have a similar viewpoint to me, or in fact me to him. He asks intelligent question and gives good quotes, but he gets discredited for it all. JWI seems to be the most balanced, and he gives very good and strong answers. We must all remember that we are all different and i will quote the singer Seal :-

Different kinds of people, with different kinds of lives, Walking toward the future, with different size strides. 

Sarcasm does not hide FACTS. Not even a good try Tom. 

Quote Arauna  I obey the GB because I have chosen to do so..

Well it's nice of you to admit that you OBEY the GB. I'd rather obey God through Christ myself, and the Bible gives us all enough information to do so. . 

Quote @Arauna People just love to make rules about everything.. .it gives them a measure of control in their own lives and sometimes in other's lives.   That's funny.

Um, JWs cannot have beards. JWs have to wear a shirt and tie, and a jacket on the platform. 

Sisters are not allowed to wear trousers even if they are designed as ladies trousers. And many more rules.

So i wonder who likes to make rules ? Oh yes the Leaders of the CCJW. 

I do feel pity for @Arauna as she is so blinded by her love of the GB and the Org. 

Quote Arauna, " All aspects of this subject has been covered before in many pages and still you guys keep opening it up again and again (OCD-like) as if this is all you think about." 

BUT Arauna, that is what this topic is about, and it is about new information concerning the victims of CSA. Yes it is an ongoing situation whether in Australia, UK, America or elsewhere. It will continue to be an ongoing topic. It is not OCD as you pretend, but new information being added and then discussed and related to old information.

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

It is not parallel system. Secular authorities look after physical matters which can be proved in court. They do not care about spiritual wellbeing.  Elder's responsibility is to look after spiritual matters.  James says if you are spiritually sick go see the elders.

Then every JW should have been allowed to tell the Police and Superior Authorities from the very beginning. There should not have been any secrecy, and JWs should never have been told to leave it with the Elders. JWs should have had the FREEDOM to chose who they told without the fear of being disfelowshipped. To change the rules now is shutting the stable door after the horse has gone missing. To little toooo late. 

Quote Arauna, "Yes, there are a lot of flaws.. but then..... so did Israel have flaws back in their day - and Jehovah still used them for his purpose."

You have a love to misuse examples. The Israelites were born into that nation. They did not chose to be Israelites. JWs CHOSE to be JWs. Therefor their heart condition should be toward doing GOOD in order to serve GOD properly. The situation EARTHWIDE with Child Sexual Abuse in the CCJW proves that many JWs deliberately turn their back on God. Hundreds of Elders would have had first hand information regarding CSA, and they kept it hidden. Some of those Elders would have been and possibly still are Paedophiles. And you think God will use them ? 

@Space Merchant goes on about helping to save children from child sexual abuse. The JW organisation should announce to a congregation when there is a Paedophile in that congregation. The Elders should say the name of the paedophile so that everyone knows it. The paedophile should be reported to the Police or Superior Authorities, not kept hidden in the congregation. THAT would help keep children safe.  The silly idea that Elders will know when a person is repentant is stupid. And some Elders are even given their position in the congregation back. 

And as I'm shunned by every JW in my area, how am I supposed to tell them what i know ? I have spoken to those that contact me by phone or email, but they do not believe me, and they should not be contacting me (according to man made rules) so they will not pass on the information I give them. These ones are not local but very doubtful they will use the info' i give them. 

SM calls me a bystander, Quite funny as that is a JW expression. Any JW that does not go out preaching is called a JW Bystander here in England.  And it seems that SM expects me to go out and talk to complete strangers, even children, about CSA and Paedophiles. Um, i think I would get arrested or at least accused of something nasty. This is England and people are more unsociable or reserved, so you do not just go up and speak to young children that do not know you. 

42 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It seems how this have to be integrated in new revised edition of "Shepherd book". That will be helpful for elders and Judicial Commissions in making decisions what sort of "apostate" have to be dfd but what not to :))) 

If the Elders don't shoot you for one thing, they will hang you for something else. Once they don't like a person then they mark them. Then it's only a matter of time before d/fed.

.@César Chávez Billy the Kid you talk so much rubbish. Quote :-

That leads to an understanding. When did you decide Elders are lawyers, caretakers of peoples free will. When did the Watchtower decide, they are responsible for an individuals personal life. Spiritual life, YES!, But personal life, never! That "responsibility" belongs with each individual

The GB of JW Org / CCJW decided they were in control of congregants lives when they made the rules of hiding paedophiles in the congregations, by telling the congregants NOT TO report CSA to the police or to the authorities. And the Elders decided to control people's personal lives by carrying out those orders. Hence some congregants were disfellowshipped for complaining about CSA, and some were disfellowshipped for going to the police. Of course the age old excuse used was that a person was 'causing a division in the congregation'. 

It's quite simple, Elders are known to break the Org rules when it suits them, and it is accepted. Whereas I didn't break that rule.

 You said "Of course it has happened, and still does— "  You admitted to doing it yourself. So you must ask yourself if it is a rule in your area, and do the Elders in your congregation break the rules of the Organisation ?  If so, and if then CSA happens, who is to blame ? The Elders who break the rules are to blame it would seem. But the Elders get protected by the Org. It's a vicious cycle, but always the victims that suffer. 

The Elders have obeyed the GB by hiding CSA in congregations and by hiding paedophiles in the congregations too. By not telling the whole congregation who the paedophile is, it endangers all congregants children. But, the Elders do those things by following instructions from their hierarchy. The thing is Tom, what I'm saying has been proven many times in courts of law. Even though the courts of the 'world' are not the best places, when a paedophile has confessed to police or in court then truth has been proven, and things that I've mentioned have therefore been proven to be true. 

A quote from your earlier comment " Bob Cook, wrote: “The most upsetting thing about many child-protection rules is they assume any adult is capable of doing something bad. "

Of course any adult is capable of doing something bad.  Bad in different ways maybe, but anyone alive is capable of doing bad things. It seems that most paedophiles are known to their victims. And in the JW congregations people 'know' each other closely, (they think they know each other, that is). And that has been proven so many times. That is why parents allow other adults to take their children off, but the Elders allow it to happen in the Kingdom halls and on the ministry. 

@TrueTomHarley  Thank you for a good laugh Tom. I've said it before, that you are a writer with a very BIG imagination.

You have made up so much it is funny.  Now another Quote with another semi-accusation :-

"That point notwithstanding, why in the world would you not agree to this?—unless there is some twisted background that you are not conveying. " 

Do you see that accusation Tom ?  Now the reason I did not agree to take the child with me on the ministry is quite simple. I was obeying the Organisations procedure. It's called being humble. In the congregations I have been in, the rules have been that at meetings children must sit with their parents, and on the ministry children must be with a parent. If this is UK rules I don't know but that's how it was. However, other people did not obey those rules, but that was their choice. 

Then you ramble on, two paragraphs, about Boy Scouts, Joe Pa Days and Catholics. Why ? It has nothing to do with the CCJW or Watchtower Soc'. 

The whole point that i was making is this. And you have helped my prove my point. Quote :- 

"The Jehovah's Witnesses have not sponsored any programs or activities that separate children from their parents at any time," it said in a statement to AAP.

You have helped me by admitting that as a JW, you spent time alone with a child that wasn't yours. 

Thank you Tom. You said "Of course it has happened, and still does— "  Once again proving my point. 

As for your silly idea of me pretending to be righteous, I've said I doubt if I will be counted worthy of the 'New world'. So I think that disproves your accusation on that one. 

Just as a note. Here in England the congregations i have been in tell Brothers and Sisters that are not married to each other, not to travel in a car together, and not to enter a house together.  It's all about being seen to be innocent, or not leaving room for accusation. Now, use that same idea with adults spending time alone with someone else's child. 

As for court cases and verdicts, JW Lawyers tell so many lies that they could 'get away with murder' in court rooms. A verdict in either direction does not proof truth or justice. So following court cases seems a lost cause. However I do honestly believe that God though Jesus Christ, through Holy Spirit, will sort the CCJW out and make it safe and clean for honest hearted ones to be able to serve God properly. But i cannot be part of the Org now as it is so unclean. A person does not have to be 'righteous' to see it. Even if not all of the accusations Earthwide are true, say only half of them are true, it is still too much, and also many other problems regarding misuse of scripture and mistreatment of the Anointed. It all has to be sorted long before Armageddon. 

People so love to misquote me. It does make me laugh 

This is an example. " you thinking mankind can clear out sins as if they had power equal to that of the Most High is quite absurd, .." 

Whereas i actually said this :- 

 And I believe that Jesus Christ will have that database used in American courts, as part of the cleaning of the CCJW.  Christ will use the Superior Authorities of the 'world' to clean out the things of the 'world' from the CCJW. 

So hopefully people can see the difference. I have faith in God through Christ, not faith in men. 

@TrueTomHarley  You don't want to believe the things I say because they upset your little 'dream world' of your 'wonderful organisation'. 

Elders take young children, that are not their own children, on the ministry. Older brothers ans sisters do likewise. Brothers or sisters take children, that are not their own, to meetings in their cars. Elders, older brothers and older sisters do home Bible studies for children that are not their own. Some parents cannot give their own children a bible study because the children will not behave well enough for their parents but will behave 'better' for an older adult. 

I quote you here to show how perverted you are Tom,  "I take from this that you were not stalking the child."  it's a sort of semi-accusation i know. It is a thing that JWs do well. It's sly and it's meant to bring shame on the person accused. 

Not long ago, and for no reason it seems, you mentioned masterbation in one of your comments. Prior to that you have mentioned 'Getting all wet' over something. Now you mention stalking a child.  You seem to have a serious problem and I'm trying hard not to accuse you of anything. But the topic of CSA does seem to upset you. 

And you doubt I was a JW for 50 years. OK, if that fits your agenda. I'm not single minded and in the last couple of months I've put up 6 topics on this forum not related to CSA. 

Another quote :- " On other issues, you seem so unaware of how JWs think that I’ve even questioned whether you ever were one. "

Just another accusation from you Tom.  Please give me examples of this if you can. But bare in mind that American JWs may think differently to English JWs. Different cultures, especially South of England. We are so cold hearted and rather blunt with people, it seems. 

I may have mentioned previously that when I started studying the teaching was of the 7,000 year Creative Days and then the 6,000 years of human existence, then the 1,000 year reign of Christ. It all seemed so simple and 'true' back then in the 1960's. No Governing Body back then. NO F&DS mentioned as far as I can remember. But serious restrictions on teenagers. No parties or gatherings at all. No modern music or modern dancing. No modern 60's clothing. Very restrictive here in Southern England in the 1960's and 70's. The good thing was that Italian mohair suits and slim knitted ties were a Mod thing and were just about allowed though frowned upon by many.  .  Oh yes Tom I remember it well. But of course you don't believe me.  Have a good day. I continue to forgive you as Jesus said we should forgive one another. 

Just one last note and another quote of you, "and yet you still think it doubtful you will make it into the new world."  Your GB and it's ORG say that a person HAS TO BE A JW TO SURVIVE ARMAGEDDON. So according to your GB and it's Org, I won't be in the New world.