@Equivocation  Firstly you seem to assume that i was disfellowshipped. You are  WRONG. 

I quote you "Well disfellowshipment does cut congregation ties, "     BUT because the GB are so wicked they do not allow the Elders to say that a person has LEFT THE ORGANISATION.  Therefore everyone presumes a person was disfellowshipped, and because of that no one will talk to that person. However I do have contacts still in the Org that know the truth and will still talk to me by telephone or email. 

Quote "Errr.. What do you mean going out into the world? "

I don't go out to mix with people. i don't go looking for 'friends' in the world. I don't drink alcohol so don't go to pubs / drinking houses. I don't go to festivals or night clubs. I live in a small town and don't go into the city very often. I live a simple but still interesting life. I'm quite happy walking in the local woodlands or on the beach if it's empty. But England is having a lot of trouble right now, so i tend to stay home most days. I'm 70 and retired, but still lively and keep busy. Even at home i can find lots to do. When the virus is gone, if ever, then i will go out more, but I still won't go looking to meet people. Maybe you cannot understand that some people are quite happy to be alone or just with the ones they love. Even if I get into the 'New World' (very doubtful) I would still prefer peace and quiet and being alone. 

And here in England the CCJW / JW Org teach the congregations not to have any friends outside of the Organisation. I think it is done to keep people in the Org. Some people want to leave but are frightened to leave because they know they will lose everyone. Their whole world of contacts will be gone if they leave. That is a threat that the GB make and it has no scriptural backing. Those that want to leave are PIMO Physically in, Mentally out. They just use the Org as a social club. My conscience wouldn't let me do that. I had reason to leave so i left. 

@Equivocation  You are over generalising. I didn't say SM had no idea about child abuse, i said he has no idea about how it has been dealt with in the CCJW.  I also said that he would actually have to be a JW to know how things are handled in the Org. 

I was a JW for 50 years so I do have a bit of knowledge about the Org. Plus I have some knowledge that I should not have, from people that should not tell me. As for Elders, they do as they are told from men higher up in the Org. 

Now as for SM going out into the 'world' and helping children, that is his choice. When i was a JW I was taught to be 'no part of the world' and not to mix with 'worldly' people... Hence I never had any 'worldly' friends, so never knew personally any 'worldly' situations. You have to know people well to be able to talk to them deeply about such personal things. SM is not a JW so his life is different. He seems to share his time between spiritual and physical things. JWs in England spend their time on spiritual matters and occasionally helping brothers and sisters, but not much of helping anyone outside the Org. As I am no longer a JW I have lost all those people that i had contact with. I won't call them friends as they obviously weren't, because they would not have shunned me if they were friends. So, due to this Covid-19 I stay home. I am lucky to have a lovely wife and a good son so I'm not alone. But as for going out into the world, no thank you. 

Quote @Space Merchant  As for the database, we do not know, some are saying they have one, some are saying they do not, others have said they have destroyed it. We should not be playing multiple choice with something serious

If the American CCJW Bethel has destroyed the CSA / Paedophile 20 year Database it would prove they are not serving Almighty God. It would prove that they are deliberately hiding Paedophiles in the CCJW / Watchtower Soc'.  It would prove they have things to hide and that they should not be trusted at all. 

However, i do not believe they have destroyed it. And I believe that Jesus Christ will have that database used in American courts, as part of the cleaning of the CCJW.  Christ will use the Superior Authorities of the 'world' to clean out the things of the 'world' from the CCJW. 

Almighty God used armies of this 'world' to punish the Israelites. And did He use or just allow the Romans to destroy Jerusalem ? Either way it got the job done.  Do you think God and Christ have stopped working toward humans ? Ye people of little faith. 

The report also said this. which is of course a direct lie. 

"The Jehovah's Witnesses have not sponsored any programs or activities that separate children from their parents at any time," it said in a statement to AAP.

Well in fact JWs do separate children from their parents in field service. Elders have been known to take other people's children on field service and in fact this has been proven in some court cases. Just an Elder or an older brother or sister with a child, and no 2 witnesses. I've been on the ministry in the past and a child has actually asked to be with me on the doors. I've declined as I think children should be with their parents. 

Also Elders do private Bible study or 'shepherding calls' with children, without parents being in the room. A Bible study can last an hour, just that Elder and child in the room, no 2 witnesses.

Please remember I was a JW for 50 years. I do know what I'm talking about.  

Now a bit of balance :- the report says this, but 

"This will result in survivors receiving nothing," Knowmore principal lawyer Anna Swain told AAP.

I don't think this is true either.  It just means that each survivor will have to take the CCJW or the individual Elder / brother / sister to court individually.  It will mean lots of separate court cases but that will cost lots of money of course. 

Well that comment deserves a laughing face. Nice to see some humour Tom. 

'Untrue Tom Harley' just repeats himself time and time again. He must be trying so hard to convince himself of the things he repeats. Yes I read through all his rubbish time and time again just to see if there is any sign of life in it. But no it's as dead as ever.  I've noticed he's stopped advertising his books. 

The Writing dept' and the GB. The blind leading the blind, whichever one is in the lead. 

Quote TTH " I could be wrong, but I bet the GB has learned to be very leery of such phrases and terms as “mouthpiece” and “inspired” and “spirit-directed” "

But they still call themselves ' the faithful and discreet slave '. Which is even worse as the title was never theirs to use. Wicked slave that they can be seen to be, beating up their fellow slaves. 

Quote "“At Bethel, the Governing Body study their Bibles. An idea will occur to one of them. They will discuss it among themselves and when they all come to agreement, it will appear in print.” 

THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. Those 8 men decide what appears in print BUT they are not guided by Holy Spirit. It is just the ideas of 8 men and maybe some of the Writing Dept. 

And there is one more thing which hasn't been mentioned about those 8 men. @JW Insider and others find it ok to mention GB members or 'Board' members from past times, but no one tells us who is 'in charge' right now. It seems that in the past there was always a 'ring leader' or a 'boss' but no one says that about the GB now. The point being that if there is a bully or one that is determined to get his way, then his ideas will make it to the printing press. So just the ideas and traditions of men.   @Anna seems to have noticed it and I think JTR Jr  noticed it too. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-earthquake-death-toll-rises/

Inside a Mexico City military barracks converted to COVID-19 hospital, medical staff suited in protective equipment tried to calm anxious patients. Unable to evacuate isolation areas, patients huddled under a large beam in the women's ward while a nurse tried to calm one having a panic attack.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/mexican-officials-raise-oaxaca-earthquake-death-toll-to-six/2020/06/24/53f63b60-b61d-11ea-a510-55bf26485c93_story.html

Sounds like it could be pretty in sunrise and sunsets. Maybe good for photographers, hopefully some great photos. But not so good for people suffering with poor lungs. Don't know if it is exciting or worrying. 

I think it affected hospitals where they had Covid-19 patients too. One serious problem on top of another. 

Yes, only God's 'new world' will sort out every problem on this Earth.  It's a pity that so many (maybe including me) will have to die, but each one of us will be judged fairly and then in that 'new world' no one will suffer as they do now. 

And one other thing that puzzles me is, in the ARC investigation the Australian Bethel seemed to have reports of CSA going back 50 years, but in America, where the religion started, they only have reports / database going back to 1997.  So i wonder what they did with all previous reports ? Did they destroy them ? There could have been information previously about men that have 'high positions' in the Org now. 

Quote @Anna Going back to the fear of apostates, it makes me wonder why they (the GB) are so afraid, to the point of putting the fear of God in you if you so much as glance at something apostate related. That has always bothered me a bit. Are they afraid that their influence be undermined? That people will lose trust in them? If that is so, where then does the trust in Jehovah figure? Are we not supposed to trust Jehovah more than any man? 

It is nice to see Anna ask these questions. It shows she has balance.  But :-

Firstly we have to ask. Who is it that decides who is Apostate ?  And then what exactly are they supposed to be Apostate to ?  Some on here now use the word Opposers.  But the question still remains, Who are these ones Opposing ? 

This is where the GB's fear starts.  Note Anna's words above.  Also note the last sentance.

The GB are frightened that congregants will become Apostates of the GB.  

Now, to pretend that they have more information and to pretend they are guided by God the GB do this :-   Once again I quote Anna. 

However, those who follow the developments in the world and read the guidelines as proposed by human agencies (as you mentioned) will know this pandemic is by no means over, and may last a very long time. We don't need the GB telling us what we already know. However, we do appreciate their reminders and concern. But to cloak this in a way that insinuates they have more knowledge, when all they do is follow the same developments that are accessible for anyone else to read and study, is....well, funny

@JW Insider Tries his best to justify it all. But it can be clearly  seen that the GB are using the Covid-19 situation to try to show themselves as above others and as having 'special' information. 

Is Anna the only JW on here that notices these things OR is she the only one acting honestly in this case ?

@Equivocation  Please do not fall into the same trap as Space Merchant.  He seems to think that because the JW Org / GB write 'pretty' words about hating child abuse, that the GB and others are innocent. I notice SM compares Australia to the UK, but doesn't mention America.  I think that the GB and their Lawyers are still withholding the 20 year database of American Child Sexual Abuse victims within the JW Org.. That database must contain the names of hundreds of paedophiles in American congregations, many of them being Elders and MS and probably some men that are now higher up in the organisation. It will probably contain the names of some women too as not all paedophiles are men. 

No matter what magazines are printed congregants will still not believe that there are paedophiles in their congregations. Congregants will still trust all the Elders and MS, and Circuit Overseers etc.. And Elders do not tell the whole congregation even if there is a known paedophile in the congregation. 

Space Merchant has mentioned that some times parents abuse their own children. This is true and it has been proven in courts. But in the CCJW / JW org if a child has reported this to the Elders, the Elders do not believe the child or tells the child not to tell anyone else. It is the secrecy in the JW org that has made it possible for so many paedophiles to abuse so many children. 

I agree that it is Yahweh, not Jehovah. 

@Space Merchant Yes I have basic knowledge of the grooming gangs here in the UK, and I am aware that the governments /politicians are just as bad in some ways. Even some UK police officers have been involved.  I don't dig deep into this type of thing as IMO it is all 'part of the world'. I have no intention of getting involved in investigating those things. Every day there are wicked deeds taking place here in the UK and many times light prison sentences are given. Then there is uproar from some members of the public. People screaming all over Facebook and else where. I don't get involved. I 'live in a very small world'. My wife, my son, (who is twenty five years old), and myself. One household.  And with present circumstances that is all I need. So I have no direct contact with anyone else. But the whole point of this forum is Jehovah's Witnesses, and the whole point of this topic is an investigation into that organisation. And that is why I'm a member of this forum, to talk about Jehovah's Witnesses and it's GB and the Watchtower. If i wanted to talk about Catholics I'm sure i could find a forum about them. and if i wanted to talk just about 'world condition' or just 'child abuse', then I'm sure i could find forums  to use. BUT I'm here to talk about the JWs, the CCJW, the GB and the Watchtower, that's all. 

Wow and yes i stuck with it all, reading every word that y'all had written .

@JW Insider seems to have a split personality on this topic. He deliberately kicks the man down, then he says he agrees with a lot of the things he wrote. 

@TrueTomHarley is just Tom. He just loves to try to wind people up. Tom I forgive you your slander against me, which you seemed to enjoy as you wrote a complete paragraph about it.

@Anna You seemed to go off topic, but then don't we all. 

In all, I've noticed that you are not really interested in the BOOK, but are more interested in 'analysing' the writer. I feel it is because the Book troubles you all. The reason being as JWI has hinted at, that Furuli speaks truthfully about the GB and about problems in the CCJW. 

Anna did bring up the point that the GB are NOT like Moses or Jesus. Please keep in mind that your GB has said they are NOT INSPIRED. And Anna (I think) mentioned that the Writing Department do the writing anyway, and they too are NOT inspired.  IMO none of them are  even 'spirit led or guided'. And Anna rightly said that Tom could write the Watchtower mags. 

JWI seemed to think that I had 'gone off to some other Christian org', but I have not.  

All of you seem to think that 'God belongs to the CCJW' because you make mention of when a person leaves the CCJW they are leaving God. This is untrue but you will not be convinced.  

The rest of it just seemed to be the three of you patting each other on the back, which is fine.

Dinner time, be back later, 4Jah2me

 Three of you in panic. Looking for ways to put the man down. So funny 

@TrueTomHarley  @Anna  @JW Insider   Are you getting worried about your dear old GB ?

Or are you getting worried about the complete CCJW / W/t ? 

You all know that the CCJW is in a mess. (Australia and IICSA UK for a start, possibly loss of charitable status in both countries). Hence i think you are panicking. 

But you also clearly show how you are brainwashed by the GB's mentality. You just cannot accept that this man did something ON HIS OWN. You have to link him with others. 

TTH is probably unhappy that this man's book will actually get some attention whereas Tom's might not. And no i haven't read it yet. But do I need to as its already been dissected on here ? And yes Tom he probably would have had my support on some things. 

Anna trying to make the man look small by suggesting he had a 'tantrum'. 

JWI talks about a 'subtext' in order to put this man down. 

If you three are an example of what the CCJW is now, then I'm glad I'm not part of it.  The Org needs cleaning out and new Anointed Servants need putting in place by Jesus Christ using Holy Spirit, but you lot have lost your faith and no longer believe in God's active force. 

Seems the best you can do is criticise a man that tried to help the Org move forward.

@Space Merchant  What is more funny is the fact you upvoted my comment on June 16. 

And an important word in @Witness 's  top heading comment is 'allegedly'   allegedly pushed cash offshore. 

As for teaching children anything, my wife and I have put ourselves on 'lockdown' so no visitors and no visiting others. Being an 'old man' I don't go out much anyway so the only 'preaching' i do is online through Facebook pages, and it is surprising the good response I get. 

In my June 16 comment i did mention that I cannot hear what is said on videos, it is all a muffled noise. So i don't watch videos but I do try to read all written articles linked. 

However i will say again, people on this forum lack true faith.  If God and Christ want a clean organisation they will HAVE a clean organisation. It has nothing to do with humans being imperfect. It has nothing to do with CSA being 'all over the world'. It is up to God through Christ to do the cleansing. Of course they will 'use' humans, but those humans will be guided by holy spirit. 

Remember the words of Jesus (something like) 'If you have faith the size of a mustard grain and you say to this mountain fall into the sea, it will happen'.  Well Jesus will use the true Anointed and there will be a true faith. 

  On 6/22/2020 at 2:49 PM, 4Jah2me said:

My last SIX topics I've put up on this forum do not relate to CSA, so stop exaggerating @Space Merchant

And your point? I merely stated that we can do much more to help the children out there when we apply better solutions, as even prompted by those who fight child abuse the correct way.

No SM, what you said was  :-

For someone who is this keen on mentioning CSA time and time again,

Hence my comment about my last SIX topics.  Don't sidetrack on what you've actually accused me of. I mention CSA when there is a need to mention it. 

I think Space Merchant and others are in for a big shock within the next twelve months. I think things would have progressed quicker but the virus I presume has quietened things down in the USA proceedings against the GB and CCJW,  or is it just that i have missed something ? 

The IICSA are still working on the investigation here in the UK. 

If charitable status is taken away from the CCJW in Australia and the UK they will find life a bit difficult, and if they are asked to open up all of their accounts for inspection by the Authorities then i think many more questions would be asked. 

As for SM, he seems to think that the hundreds of CCJW CSA victims are telling lies or just making up stories. The GB and their 'soldiers/police force' have done a good job of hiding paedophiles in the CCJW and a good job of convincing many people that it does not exist. 

Of course the Devil does a similar job of convincing people that he does not exist too. 

I wonder if he was honest when he was younger.

I can confirm that I am now excluded, says Rolf Furuli, who for nearly 60 years has been a key figure in Jehovah's Witnesses nationally and internationally.

Furuli says he takes the exclusion with great calm. Usually, such an exclusion will be terribly heavy. Your entire network is broken and friends will no longer talk to you. But for me it is not so. I have a network all over the world of scientists and elders who see the problems in the organization. These I want to keep in touch with, says Furuli.

Vårt Land has been in contact with Jehovah"s witnesses spokesperson in Scandinavia, Dag Erik Kristoffersen. He says he has no information about a possible exclusion of Furuli, and that he is therefore unable to comment on the case at this time. But Cato Pretorius of the Torstrand congregation in Larvik, Furuli's local congregation, confirms the exclusion. Since this is publicly known, we can confirm that he is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, he writes in an SMS to Vårt Land.

I'd still like to see each comment have an individual number to relate to.

@JJJ-AUSTRALIA  Can you explain exactly what being put 'on notice' actually means. Is it a warning that they will lose their charitable status ?  I couldn't find any links but I'm in UK so maybe not available here.

35 minutes ago, Witness said:

 

I do, but not according to YOUR way.  

Yes, rather bossy isn't he  

Yes NC makes a comment against this author but does not back it up with FACTS. 

My last SIX topics I've put up on this forum do not relate to CSA, so stop exaggerating @Space Merchant

And even then you tear my topics to pieces. So, sorry SM, I cannot take you too seriously. You also take a lot of words to say very little. You seem to go round and round in circles. 

The only people that KNOW how a faith truly operates are the people inside that faith. I laugh when you say you can speak with Elders on a neutral footings, that is so funny. Elders will tell you what they want you to know. And the GB have said that Elders can tell lies to protect the CCJW Org. They call it 'spiritual warfare'. 

Quote " I would like you to point out as to what I do not know - please do, I want to see. "

That has been done many times, BUT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU, because you THINK you know better. 

There is exaggeration on both sides. the very Anti-JWs that make videos etc exaggerate the problems. AND the GB, Writing Department, COs, Elders exaggerate in the opposite direction. Please remember that the GB said it was all apostate rumours, until a lot of it was proven as fact.

As for CSA being Earthwide, everybody knows that. But, this is a JW forum and I am only interested in the CCJW.

True Christians should be 'no part of the world'. And true Christians should not be trying to solve worldly problems. If a person is directly involved in an incident or can help those close to them then yes of course help, but, not spend time or money trying to put right things the world over.

My point of being on this forum is, to either see the CCJW / JW Org / Watchtower, cleansed by God through Christ, or, to see the beginning of a new religion that will serve God properly. I am therefore not looking at 'the rest of the world' from this viewpoint. 

As for this comment of yours :-

" it is striking that even solutions provided by the ones you seek aid from, it often ignored. "

Who are you suggesting that I am 'seeking aid from' ? For in my opinion only God and Christ can set matter straight.