@b4ucuhear  Quote : Many/most brothers who serve as elders are loving shepherds who just want to do what is right. 

Let's examine that statement. When a brother is appointed as an Elder he knows that he has to obey all rules and punishments dished out by the GB / Leaders of CCJW. 

One example is Child Sexual Abuse. Doing what is right is reporting it to the Police or a child protection agency. But Elders were told not to report it. In fact Elders didn't even warn the congregations. Didn't name the paedophile. They just kept it all secret. That has been proven in so many cases that it cannot be argued.  (I actually think that is the subject of your comments )

Elders are Policemen. That is the job the GB / Leaders gives them.  But even you seem to say that they police the wrong people.  In fact you bring us back to that scripture that mentions the Evil Slave beating his Fellow Slaves.  You seem to give proof that the Fellow Slaves / Anointed are being mistreated.

Quote: I'm not writing this to provide more "ammo" to opposers 

I do wish JWs would not be brainwashed by this idea of opposers. This idea of them against us.  Many JWs, some on here, make known faults in the CCJW.  If a person chooses to leave the CCJW because of the many faults within the Org, and if said person makes known those faults, they are not directly in opposition to the whole organisation. Otherwise half of the contributors being JWs on here are actually opposers. 

But i do find it funny when some of you sit on the fence. What does it say in Revelation, something like, 'You are neither hot nor cold, so I will spit you out of my mouth'.  Each one of you will have a big decision to make soon. Unless the CCJW is completely cleansed before Armageddon. 

If the Ark had been contaminated the animals would have got sick and died, and even Noah and his family may have died. But the Ark was constructed perfectly for its job and the humans were also found faultless by God. 

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

I don't pretend.  I am what I am....... and I repeat.... you are a slave to your own desires and viewpoints and always combative...... 

I am indeed a slave to my own desire, and that desire is to serve God through Christ. 

As for my viewpoints, we each have our own. You seem to have a lot of political ones, which I tend to keep away from. 

You also seem to be a slave, a slave to your Governing Body through the CCJW and its Elders. 

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Those who are not slaves of jehovah are slaves to their own desires and viewpoints.  It explains a lot..... you think you are independent but in actual fact a slave to yourself.  You did not get along with other JWs, not because of doctrine but because of personality traits..... a combative attitude.

There you go again @Arauna mixing up Yahweh with the GB / CCJW. 

And once again, when you have pretended to be a pleasant person, you go making accusation of me. 

And you pretend to have a Christian based conscience and attitude. Do you not see how you follow your GB in your pretending to know things that you do not know, and making things up as you go along.. 

It is because I am a slave of God through Christ that i am no longer attending the CCJW meetings. It is because I have a Bible trained conscience that I cannot allow myself to be part of the immoral and dishonest organisations, both the Watchtower and the CCJW.  

Some prefer to sit on the fence but i could not do that. I know of people that would love to leave the CCJW, but they could not bear to be parted from friends and family. Some older people have nothing else but the congregation and would be totally alone without it. 

As for my personality, I got on well with the other congregants, we did ministry together regularly, we had social gatherings, it was the Elders that lord it over the congregation that were a problem, but a problem to themselves not to me. I've always known that i answer to God through Christ, not to the Elders of the CCJW. 

This is fabulous humour for a warm dry sunny English Sunday morning. 

Is everyone grabbing there GO bag and running for the plane ?  

I hope everyone of you is staying as safe as you can and I hope you and your family are keeping healthy and well. 

I do feel (totally off topic) that people always expect 'other people' to have the answer to any problem. People in every country are expecting their governments, scientists, chemists, doctors et al to have the 'cure' and the answer to solve this Virus. People never expect there to be NO answer. 

How will people react to Armageddon, when they will have no answer. 

8 hours ago, Anna said:

Actually no. Go and re-read those scriptures again, carefully.

I have read them properly many times and from an unbiased viewpoint. 

I am free from GB / CCJW doctrine so i am able to see clearly. Whereas you and Arauna and others are tied to GB / Org interpretations. It must be terrible for your conscience if you find real truth because it would contradict the men you follow. 

Anna, we will just have to both have a Christian attitude and agree to differ. Have a good day. 

Of course if God wanted it that way it would happen, but i don't think it is God's plan of action. 

We can all have ideas of our own, and we can all have opinions of other people's ideas, but in the end it will be what God chooses to happen through Christ. 

I think the GB / Org say that JWs will be told to do the most unexpected things and must obey without question. I think they mention Moses and the Red Sea..........

Right now with this virus around anything could happen. The virus isn't exactly a 'sign' but it could cause a lot of changes inside and outside of the CCJW. 

Oh dear, I do hope this whole topic is supposed to be a joke. 

Do the GB really allow 13 different fractions or is that just a guess ? 

15 hours ago, Anna said:

Where do you think my proof was from? 😃

From your GB's viewpoint of scripture. 

Very sad news that anyone should get this horrible virus, and even worse that they should die from it.

But there is the wonderful hope of the resurrection which will bring good health and much better living conditions.

Stay safe as much as you can.  

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Domestics are all who belong to Jesus as the master and all who are fed by him. So since Jesus is the master, then all of Jesus's slaves are domestics.

 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Matthew 24:45

The domestics include the anointed and the slave, because the slave is spoken of as beating his fellow slaves (domestics):  

“But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying, and he starts to beat his fellow slaves Matthew 24:48,49 

 

Once again I totally disagree with you. 

But I've given proof from scripture and I'm not going to cast pearls before swine as the scriptures advise it is not good. 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

The jew is his slave - and many go with them as the prophecy indicates....... but you refuse to acknowledge the Jew. 

The True Slave would not make false predictions about Armageddon.

The Leaders of the JW Org / CCJW have regularly made false predictions, showing that they are saying 'The master is delaying'. Hence they beat their fellow slaves. The Mathew scripture makes that so clear. 

 “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’b ⁴⁹  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 

And Jesus says in Revelation that their Lamp stand will be removed from them. 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I corrected you because YOU were sly...... implying people are losing their lives regarding the blood law......  because they obey gods law.  You implied that they are listening to the GB instead of obeying God. I called you out on that deceit. 

I stand by what i said and it was not done slyly. It was done directly. 

It is not so much that people are losing their lives, it is that the GB / Leaders of  CCJW are controlling people by making rules, instead of letting people use their own conscience. 

I think JTR Jr made it quite clear about the consequences of disobeying those in charge of the Org. Shunning, disfellowshippping, loss of family contact, all man made rules by the Leaders of JW Org. 

I still believe that the scripture means not drinking blood. 

If it doesn't then why do the GB allow Blood fractions, which come from whole blood ? 

If blood is sacred / precious then it should not be removed from the body deliberately according to your GB way of thinking.  

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

As I said before- I suspect you have a problem with all authority.......even if they come from God himself

I have a dislike for authority that is used in an unjust and dictatorial way. 

We all know that 'the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one' hence the authority of that 'world' is generally unfair and dishonest. 

Unfortunately that is also in the CCJW. Your GB and it's predecessors made up rules which are not scriptural. Your GB's Lawyers are dishonest. Your GB have no love for their brothers. Just as Revelation says, they have lost the love they once had. 

When the Elders would moan at me I would ask them for three scriptures to back up their complaints. They soon left me alone because they knew they could not back up their complaints from scripture. 

However I obey God as ruler rather than men. 

Quote @Arauna  Are you advocating undue attention  to the anointed?

Answer.

Berean Study Bible   Zechariah 8:23
This is what the LORD of Hosts says: “In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue will tightly grasp the robe of a Jew, saying, ‘Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote "Not all are part of the slave-  so the rest are domestics.

Matthew 24 v 48 & 49

 “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ ⁴⁹  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 

Like I say, you believe your GB, not God's word.

NOWHERE in God's word does it say that your GB are THE Slave.

THEY have given THEMSELVES that title.

And JWs serve them by believing every word from them. 

Also quote "Not all anointed males are elders...... just as in first century not all were elders."

And just as in the 1st Century NOT all Christians were of the Anointed. 

Jesus said, recorded at John 10 v 16,

 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;n those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.

He didn't say 'I will have' He said 'I have' Back then at that time.  Domestics / Earthly Class.

A very good point @Srecko Sostar Maybe governments wish to 'divide and conquer' all people.

Maybe governments have taken note of how the GB / CCJW  have destroyed families. Maybe the words were deliberately chosen to brainwash people into breaking contact with each other. That way the governments of this world, Satan's world, would have complete control over people just as the GB has complete control over the 8.5 million congregants of the Org.  

@Thinking Quote "No one can know who is anointed or not...that is between Jehovah and them..

Zechariah 8:23

“This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”’”

How can this scripture be fulfilled if, to quote you, "No one can know who is anointed or not...that is between Jehovah and them" ?

But on the other hand, the GB have deliberately made themselves known worldwide, whilst suppressing their FELLOW SLAVES. 

Quote "The organization exists as a tool to get the basic preaching work done."

Oh how wonderful it would be if that were so. If the GB and the rest of the Leaders / Elders didn't use traditions of men and man made rules to rule it over the congregation. IF people were left to use their own Bible based conscience. 

And of course IF the GB actually knew truth from God through Christ. 

The Apostle Paul was talking at a time when Christianity was truth. It was not segregated. But now the CCJW has proved itself to be as bad as any other part of Christendom.  There is a need for a True Anointed to appear. 

@Arauna  I think now you are 'playing the victim'.   How many times have you accused others of OCD ?

And I quote you, " You are the one who laments that saving a life (maybe your own) as more important than obedience to God." 

You see how sly you are ?   “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?

Do you see the similarity ? Well the similarity is that you too twist the truth and make accusing comments. 

Your comment suggests that I'm only interested in trying to save my own life. It also suggests that my 'disobedience' is toward God, whereas you really know that my 'disobedience' is toward the GB of the CCJW.  In this way you serve the devil well. 

When you say that you obey Jehovah's word, but in reality you obey the GB's version of God's word. You do that because you believe that the GB are the F&DS. So here we have to differ. 

As for you and your family, I wish you all good health and happiness. But I will probably continue to disagree with much that you say. My love is for God and Christ, not for the GB and CCJW. 

@César Chávez Billy you are so funny. So we are not apostates now, we are opposers.

Whatever word or argument you use could just as easily be used by any other so called Christian religion. 

The point being that just as you or other JWs may easily see the wrong in Catholic teachings or other religions, us 'opposers' can easily see the wrong in your GB, your Writing department, Your Watchtower Society, your CCJW, and many of the man made rules and traditions you all use and live by..

One thing you fail to notice though, is that I do not try to lead people. I give my opinion on things. I disagree with other people's opinion on some things.  BUT, I do not put myself forward as a 'leader' of people. I am an individual. You seem to be following TTH's thinking, that I am part of some movement. I find that quite funny. I suppose that as you and all JWs are part of an organisation, you may think that everyone else has to be part of some kind of organisation. The possibility of a person being an individual seems to frighten JWs. 

@Anna Quote "And by the way everybody, including the anointed, including the GB, are domestics."

I totally disagree with this comment of yours. Show me proof from scripture, not from your GB / CCJW.

The Domestics are the earthly class. 

Quote "Don't forget many of the anointed (I would say most if they are male) are actually elders."

But your GB say that some who say they are Anointed are actually mentally disturbed. I don't think they would be Elders then. And in the congregations I have been in many of the 'Elders' were a lot younger than me and not at all spiritually mature. In my opinion most elders earthwide are not of the Slave class. But then in my opinion the true Slave / Anointed would not be Elders as their spiritual conscience would not let them follow the GB. 

My comment about the Memorial being just an empty ceremony was relating to this lock down situation, because the Memorial is as you say for the Anointed to partake of. So any Domestics / Earthly Class just 'going through the motions' is an empty ceremony. 

As for your comment, "It is an expression of deep gratitude for the ransom, remembering on that night what Jesus did for us" 

Um, I'm happily married and i don't only remember my wife on my wedding anniversary.  Our gratitude for Christ's ransom should be every day, not just once a year. 

My feeling is that Christ's ransom was firstly for the Anointed, the Bride of Christ. I don't think it yet covers the Domestic Earthly Class. 

Revelation 5 v 9 & 10. 

 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, ¹⁰  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

That scripture shows that Christ's blood bought people for God, to serve as Priests and to Rule as Kings over the Earth. That is the Slave class, the Anointed, the Bride of Christ.

But your GB / W/t / Org only quote verse 9 and pretend it means everyone. 

If the Slave / Anointed stay true to God until their death they will not get another testing. 

If the Domestics / Earthly Class stay faithful until they die, they get a resurrection but they also get tested at the end of the thousand years. 

Also that scripture shows that the Slave is from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 

But your GB are where ? And what chance do they give to their FELLOW SLAVES from around the earth ? 

A funny thing, one of my points has been proven by this Lock down. I suggested long ago how the Slave / Anointed Earthwide could work together as the F&DS.....  Now, because of Lock down, we are seeing many thousands of people earthwide, working from home, communicating around the globe.  This could have been happening within the CCJW F&DS many years ago. But your GB wanted the power and glory for themselves. 

Quote @Anna  that the memorial has become some kind of ceremonial tradition,

It is because the memorial is for the Anointed not the Domestics. BUT the CCJW has put the Elders above the Anointed so that the Anointed are no longer shown the due respect. 

People should know who the true Anointed are (ten men clinging to the skirt of a JEW) and should show them due respect. But instead the GB says to show honour to the Elders, hence your memorial is just an empty ceremony. 

Quote "The Pauline letters are meant to be understood by spiritual people."

 Well that leaves the GB and other W/t  and CCJW leaders out of that then.  

@Srecko Sostar You have a wonderful way with words. And your last paragraph sums it up perfectly. 

@Shiwiii Thank you for understanding me and for defending my point of view. 

I truly think that @Arauna understood every word that I wrote, but she just wants to make trouble for me. 

Unfortunately @Arauna  does not understand the difference between obedience to GOD as opposed to obedience to the GB and it's 2 orgs ( Wt & CCJW ). 

A true Christian knows that Yeshua / Jesus came to earth to die as a ransom for Adam's sin. It was planned even before he was born as a human. 

But the death of any other human is NOT PLANNED out before hand. And the Matthew 12 v 9 -12 scripture still stands. 

I honestly don't believe that those people in the 1st century would have even thought about blood transfusions. The scripture is addressed not to Jews but to the people of the nations, and they would have been used to seeing people drinking blood as it was not uncommon. 

 Acts 15 v 19 & 20 

" Therefore, my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, ²⁰  but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood". 

Verse 14 says.. " Symʹe·onq has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name."

This directive was given to the Gentiles. It was about not drinking blood. 

The GB would know this for sure and in a way they prove it by allowing 'Blood Fractions' which are taken from whole blood. If they really believed blood was so sacred they would not agree to it being taken out of the body to be divided into parts. 

Christ's blood was something totally different. He was a perfect human and his blood was perfect and therefore the perfect offering. And the Anointed partake of that perfect 'blood' to be ONE with Christ. 

@James Thomas Rook Jr. 's  comment is almost unbelievable :-

" I have never even met anyone that is "loyal to the Governing Body".

They do try to be loyal to God ...by obeying the non-inspired and all to often fallible and flat wrong, sometimes goofy self-aggrandizing teachings of the GB. "

I hope that is all supposed to be a joke.  How can the above comment be, being 'loyal to God' ?

Realising that the GB are ' non-inspired and all to often fallible and flat wrong ' and  'goofy self-aggrandizing', then anyone would not obey them. Blind men leading the blind. 

By obeying them that is being loyal to them, in fact it is almost worshipping them. 

There is so much more to answer, so many other comments. But I'll leave you with JTR Jr's comment about the GB ;-

They alone are allowed to apostatize from their previous teachings, without severe punishment.

And what does that tell you ?  They have exalted themselves above all others. 

As for Romans, when did God speak to you personally to suggest his Holy Spirit isn't among those loyal ones in the Watchtower?

BY THEIR WORKS YOU WILL KNOW THEM. Simple enough for you Billy the kid ? 

18 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Yea, I guess Jesus was also crazy (according to 4jah2me) to let himself die. Loyalty to God and his principles had nothing to do with it..... 

You are a sick lady to say such a thing. 

I'd better stop at that. 

21 hours ago, César Chávez said:

I have no idea how you learned scripture. However, a careful study of the Bible, you will find out how "wrong" and presumptuous this statement is. Start by not placing labels, but how God views the congregation of Christ as a whole.

First, remove your anger "John Butler" and regal on the power of scripture. 

Hebrews 13:17 English Standard Version (ESV)

¹⁷ Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

Acts 20:28 English Standard Version (ESV)

²⁸ Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God,^[a] which he obtained with his own blood

1 Thessalonians 5:12 English Standard Version (ESV)

Final Instructions and Benediction

¹² We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you

Hebrews 13:7 English Standard Version (ESV)

⁷ Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith.

Acts 14:23 English Standard Version (ESV)

²³ And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

The weight of truth, out weighs any deception expressed by lost souls, regardless if that labor is within or outside the organization.

 

I think almost any 'Christian church' could use all of those scriptures.

They DO NOT PROVE that the CCJW and its GB are the true Christian organisation. 

But you can hide behind those scriptures if it makes you feel good.

I know you won't bother to think about the Child Sexual Abuse that your GB is hiding in the CCJW and how the Victims have to suffer for the sake of the rotten organisation. 

And you won't bother to think about how dishonest the GB's lawyers are.

Nor will you think of the misuse of scripture because you do the same.

And you won't remember that your GB admitted to NOT BEING INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT. 

And how it has also been admitted that Elders are NOT APPOINTED BY HOLY SPIRIT. 

But you keep hiding behind your GB and their lies. Because you, just like other JWs, are actually frightened of TRUTH.