Patiently waiting for Truth

Luke 22:36
Berean Study Bible
“Now, however,” He (Jesus) told them, “the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.   
Yes I know that scripture is for entirely different reasons, but it seemed to fit well  '''
Maybe ask @Pudgy what he thinks of guns ? I think he and 'Billy the Kid' might own a few.
It must be terrible to actually live in those conditions though. Here in England it is more knives than guns but no doubt it will get worse.  If I find time I will try to listen to some of the 'new light' from the Org. 
 

You have all deliberately avoided the point. Although James did give it a good shot.
Don't JWs have to judge the credibility of the GB / Watchtower writers ? 
My point was that surely a Bible should say EXACTLY what it means. IF 'certain people' think they have 'special insight', then surely those 'certain people' are responsible for giving a TRUE translation of God's word. 
I used one small scripture as an example. But if by that one scripture it can be shown that the translation is not a TRUE one, then how can the translation be trusted ? 
Pudgy here says it does not matter. But if i remember rightly, the GB through it's Watchtower magazine, have said that JWs will be given instruction 'that might not make sense', but that JWs are to obey that instruction anyway.
So credibility does matter. It matters to the point of life or death according to the GB. It certainly mattered in bible times for those very reasons. 
But if such people cannot even produce a truthful honest translation of God's word, then how can they be trusted with you life ?  

apostate /əˈpɒsteɪt/ noun a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle. abandoning a religious or political belief or principle. "an apostate Roman Catholic"   I do wish we could all be of some agreement as to what Apostate really means. 
It seems some here think as I do, that it renounces a religious or political belief or principle.
Whereas others think it is turning against God and Christ. 

Two points.  
@Witness said.
And your reply was
So are you now admitting that it is people that LEAVE THE ORG that are apostates OF THE ORG ?  
NOT turning against God or Christ, because that is the second point. 
You say " modern-day apostates have gone the atheist route ".
So you are saying that you KNOW that most people who are apostate to JW Org are now atheist. That's a big accusation.
However in reality you don't even know how many are still serving God or how many are not. You just have your own agenda and write things to suit it. 

(now, we’re finding out that they are donating donated money to politicians…’robbing from the poor and giving to the rich’ to support wt’s platform.)
I think you need to give full details of this if you are making this a serious accusation.  Or at least give us a link or reference to be able to 'check it out' 
My feeling about the CSA situation and that 25 year Pedophile Database (information of which seems to have gone very quiet of late) is they someone is being paid off to keep it all quiet. If your accusation is correct then I'd like to know the details. But right now I will keep an open mind about it. 

Now this is interesting because the GB of the JW org say they are the F&DS and they say they are 'guided' by God. 
One would think that if the Watchtower / JW Org was God's chosen organisation then the Leaders would have known as much as you did back then. In fact they should have known even more, and should have known before you did.  Then they should have protected their own people, rather than leave them there to suffer. 
Tell me, these rare few that know so much more than everyone else. Are they guided by God or men ? 

That's a dangerous accusation to make. In the beginning of Christianity there was only one direct Christian way. Now however there are many 'Christian' religions. You seem to be following the Watchtower direction of pretending that if a person does not serve God in a way in which 'you approve', then they are not serving God at all.  
Please go and look at yourself in the mirror and examine yourself spirtually. You are happy to dig at me with this :-
but you actually lack the understanding of my meaning. Now whether you lack that understanding deliberately or not is not for me to judge. But for you to think you know who is alienated from God and who isn't, well I'll repeat, examine yourself. 
You are concerned what 'the cool folks' say ?  I prefer the words of the apostle Paul at Romans 12 : 9
"Love must be sincere. Detest what is evil; cling to what is good." 
I left the Watchtower / Jehovah's Witnesses because I learnt that their Leaders were involved in EVIL deeds. Not only the Leaders but also many of the Elders earthwide. Since leaving I've learnt of some of the many lies they have told, scriptures they have misused, and the lack of love and mercy they show. So I will continue to HATE WHAT IS BAD. Whereas it seems, you are more interested in what 'the cool folks' say. But who are those  cool folks ? Are they part of the devils wicked world ? 

@Space Merchant  I am sorry that you are so angry and have to 'hate' on me.  We will of course continue to have different opinons. You obviously think from a different angle to me but you sound so aggressive about it all.
You seem to like to tell me what I should and shouldn't think or do, and even to the point of which scriptures i should and shouldn't use. That does not show any form of love, it in fact shows the wish to control.  This is very much in line with the Watchtower / JW org leaders that wish to control the thinking and actions of every JW. 
Like I say, it would probably be wise for you to look in that spiritual mirror.  You may have lots of 'knowledge' but it would appear by the things you write that you lack the love of a true Christian. 

Unable to edit this.  "householder" should read, JW!

Not it isn't. It is no accusation. Those who are taught about God and ultimately abandon God as is speak ill of him and or lie by means of their exegesis about him are of this fold.
Yet when the history is spoken in the past in this regard, you shoot away at it. This is evident because you didn't even know what Restorationism is.
It isn't a Watchtower direction, so thank you for the humor. If you bothered to not only research the word Apostasy, as is the history behind it, you'd realize it, but as proven before, core Christian knowledge is not really there in you.
Did you not READ what I said to @TrueTomHarley? [Although Apostasy, being an alienation from God, it can spell disaster in some instances.]
So tell me, is homosexuality right in the eyes of God because through Jesus he accepts everyone? The answer is pretty obvious. Or how about same sex marriage? As long as both persons are in union before God and accept God, you think that is okay? Or maybe, is it right to make the claim that God was the one responsible for the Coronavirus, just so he can pass judgement? Or perhaps, the bombing of innocence men, women and children is a justice in the eyes of God for those of the US and the UK?
I guess you need a "Pink Bible" for those.
Apostasy is an alienation from God, and all things pertaining to him, even his Christ, and it can spell disaster. This just proves my case here as to which you are utterly unaware.
You have to be completely ignorant to assume this is on the Watchtower alone when everyone can see it, even the chosen ones. We also have the fact that @Kosonen was right here, as was I.
Says the man who is unaware of things. You already proven yourself where you stand spiritually, as is exposed yourself to be a misguided soul.
why not? It would not surprise me if you yourself got hit by the wave as did most.
I pointed out 2 factors, and you have no evidence (unproven opinions) as to how I lack both understanding and meaning if [I can attest to] the Concordances for the word(s) itself is clear, as is with those who studied the Crucifixions and gave commentary insight as to who and why it can be said.
Again with the alienation. So please address the questions highlighted in blue and red. This just shows you are misguided because you did not understand the context of the point.
You should examine yourself, because last I checked, didn't realize what Strong's were, even when told, you forget, and every time there is Concordances involved, you have 0% understanding in this regard unless told by some, even me, etc.
Next time when you bring a claim, back it up because in my case, I only need to link your quotations.
And so what? What are you attempt to prove with an American saying of which you have no knowledge of?
That being said, I like how you bring Romans 12:9, yet Hermeneutical Context doesn't even correlate with the point made (which puts into question your claim of seeking and or having spiritual knowledge). JB, I thought you examined yourself spiritually here how can those having hatred of God abhor what is bad? Makes no sense (and you know it), and it shows you got it backwards, I guess you like to humor people, but of course you laugh out your mistakes - as always. This reminds me of what happened to Syrian Christians, of which the verse can be applied. A few years back the US/UK allies promised the city, and the Christians there, they will protect them, only for abandon them, resulting in the men, women and children to later be victims of terrorists, poisoners, killed, raped, forced into child marriage, slave labor, etc. Those who managed to escape made everyone aware of what happened. Why the allied forced left? Because they want their land back, and the only way to do it was to soften up even disarm the city, and abandoning them to the terrorist. They didn't care about God's Word when pretending to defend their own blood, nor did they abhor what is bad because instead of God, all they saw was their land. Also amazing how the US and the UK were hush hush about it, reasons why such ones continue to blame the US, UK and their allies.
That said, the remark is in regards to hatred towards Christians and of God and his teachings, hence the alienation, as is with unchristianization of the Word.
[haters hate because they can't appreciate, in turn, haters makes one even more famous.] - all quotations have meaning, of course.
More and more people bring forth hate and persecution to break Christians, moreover, they do not appreciate the teachings of God so they'll do anything and everything to destroy and suppress it. But Christians remain enduring and strong against such because they know if hated, they are in the right for speaking true, in this regard, famous before God and famous before those who wants to stop God's people despite every attempt being a failure. The fact that Tom was able to understand that, but you didn't speaks volume.
You speaking of Romans 12:9 is out of context here for the verses stats [Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.]
There is a verse you should have used in this regard, and it is Ephesians 4:18, which would have made more sense.
It reads [being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart;]
Those who hold to this category do have darken hearts. Because they reject God with their folly, they do not have in view the life of God of which he gives them, hence God being the life giver. Their hearts are also harden, so even if a Christian reasons with them, they do not listen, even if they attack or kill a Christian or do anything vile of ill intent, they hold no remorse, not to mention they rejoice at trying to break them from the inside and out. They love what is bad and wicked. They abhor ALL that is good. And they will find away to attack, as is willfully confuse Christians if need be because they do not see their err and are lost. Something of which Satan the Devil takes joy in as is a rebellious child who steals candy from another child. In rare instances, some come to their senses, and make the return to God, we even have Bible examples, un turn mirrors today.
Last I checked, you do not preach the gospel and the like you only focus on the Watchtower solely, this goes back to what I challenged you on too in 2020 before I was invited to a group to aid young people, so you do not know, thus being unaware, of things outside of your home, let alone where you live.
So how does hatred of God have love when they have hate?  How can they cling to what is good, if they cling to what is bad? Again, Tom understood the point, you didn't, despite the response was solely for Tom in regards to what he said. You interjected unwisely with no understanding of things.
But you equate all of them as bad and evil, i.e. because of @Arauna, you equate ALL JWs to be like her, have you made every single JW? Have you met Castle? have you met Kathgar? Also Swahili JWs have been mentioned, forgot about them? You show an understanding as the Canada Church debaters from a few days ago, which is a shame.
It was said on CSE that the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses, some people who leave claim to seek a better understanding of God, but at the same time, they allow themselves to be open to falsehood, conspiracy and misinformation, and an odd exgesis. Even some who are not of any group called this out, and there was a case where Muslims, some who do not like JWs or Christians, made a fool of former JWs in their debates. You speak of lies, but you assumed the truth of the Concordances to be false, despite the Concordances did not originate with Jehovah's Witnesses, you later assumed a group existed only to be false, and now you adhere to the Smurf, who is known by ExJWs to make wild accusations about JWs.
You say you hate what is bad, but misinformation is also bad, as with apostasy, it can spell disaster. If you actually know the history of early Christianity, you'd also know that. Not once I hear you talk about the Councils, so that remains to be seen.
You haven't given any evidence to how Scripture was misused when you yourself do not know Strong's. In this case, the issue with Hands vs. Wrists (hence Concordances are always right), which has been talked about even outside of the JW faith, mainly due to the fact of how crucifixion were done and the tearing of flesh, etc. Most people do not really focus on that, but rather, if the device used was a cross or a stake.
It is an American English saying from said folks... Are you really focused on that of which you do not know the point? Laughable. Very.
 
That being said, it is not WISE to read into things literally, it is WISE to take in all information concerning the words and roots of the Greek text concerning hands or wrists, as is, with what the conclusion actually is. Greeks didn't' speak English back then, so let's not assume they did. In this regard, the notation isn't that much of an issue, very elementary and minor, for the real focus to many is either cross or stake.

Ha- - are those the only scriptures you can up with?  lol.  I can show you the real ones but I do not waste my time... you have proven  you are not sincere.

It is interesting that just as I was about to respond to the comment @BroRando made under the heading, "Like the Days of Noah", the topic was suddenly closed to further comments.  However, I will respond here.
Quote @BroRando - "Therefore the prophecy, "It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name" at (Rev 13:16-17) will have come in Full Force. A door to door enforcement if need be."
"Have you dedicated your life to Jehovah and symbolized your dedication by baptism in water? If you have, that is wonderful! Do you remember when the brother giving the baptism talk asked whether you had dedicated yourself to Jehovah and understood that “your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”? When you answered yes, everyone present knew that you had dedicated your life and were qualified to be baptized as an ordained minister of Jehovah. You must have made Jehovah very happy! " ws17 April p. 7
Baptism questions as of 2019:
 “Have you repented of your sins, dedicated yourself to Jehovah, and accepted his way of salvation through Jesus Christ?”

(2) “Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization?””
A mark is a symbol of identification.  In the symbolic book of Revelation, “buying and selling” has nothing to do with literal commerce.  It has to do with the restricted spiritual commerce that your organization demands.  (Rev 13:16,17)
JWs receive a “mark”/identification at the time of baptism, that affects their spiritual activities from then on.  Your leaders demand full devotion to their teachings only.  In exchange for your servitude to the Beast/organization, you receive your spiritual food - doctrine, lies - which you then distribute to others.  Anyone who rejects this identifying mark,can be disfellowshipped - symbolically, spiritually, "killed".  Rev 13:15
The mark we are to bear should identify our devotion to God and His Son only. God’s word in Jesus Christ is the only mark we should accept on our heart and in our mind.  (Deut 6:6,8)  
JWs wear proudly, the mark of the Beast, which is idolatry.  (Ps 106:20; Hos 4:7; Rom 1:25; Rev 13:4)

The manner and purpose of conducting a “Bible study” with people interested in the JW religion is not to get to know how the WT Society came into being, it is not the history of the Organization as a Corporation.
The purpose of “studying” is to reject “wrong” religious or secular ideologies and to fully accept WTJWorg theology. Some details of the Organization's historical transitions can be found in other WTJWorg publications, but comprehensive and/or complete insight cannot be gained by reading a single book that would provide a complete historical overview with all the details. After all, history is written by “winners”. And that most often means that the truth will be distorted or significantly changed.
PS
"Proclaimers" book, for example, dealing with historical overview of Corporation. But is not available on every language and by that not for every JW member in the World. Even if it is available on language of some JW member that would not mean she/he would read it and find some gaps and questions about Organization.
For sure they will not find "diagram" as showed here.    

Thank you for all the information, and i stand corrected. You are right I don't dig deep enough. 
OK, even the meme is funny.  On this occasion I bow to your superior knowledge. Thank you. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems the name still exists though but as part of the JW Org. 
https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=216647&subid=0
INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION
Charity number 216647 
Activities - how the charity spends its money
Promoting the Christian religion by helping congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses & others with their spiritual & material welfare. We provide facilities for the production of Bible literature & housing for members of the order of special full-time servants. Conventions for Christian education are arranged & the public are invited.
Income and expenditure
Data for financial year ending 31 August 2020
-------------------------------------------------
They also run an Estate agents (Real estate?) business selling property too. https://ibsaproperty.com/
------------------------------------------
But that is all off topic, and as I say I stand corrected. 
 
 

And you presume that people studying the Bible with JWs were ever taught this ?
Well not here in the UK. not back in the 1960's / 70's. 
Do you think this is taught in Kingdom Halls or via vidoe link now ?  
The JW teaching was, and probably still is, that it was a smooth transition from Rusell to Rutherford then to the JW org. 
I don't think you gave a link as to where this diagram came from., but I see it's on Wikipedia.... 

Thank you for all the information, and i stand corrected. You are right I don't dig deep enough. 
OK, even the meme is funny.  On this occasion I bow to your superior knowledge. Thank you. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems the name still exists though but as part of the JW Org. 
https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=216647&subid=0
INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION
Charity number 216647 
Activities - how the charity spends its money
Promoting the Christian religion by helping congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses & others with their spiritual & material welfare. We provide facilities for the production of Bible literature & housing for members of the order of special full-time servants. Conventions for Christian education are arranged & the public are invited.
Income and expenditure
Data for financial year ending 31 August 2020
-------------------------------------------------
They also run an Estate agents (Real estate?) business selling property too. https://ibsaproperty.com/
------------------------------------------
But that is all off topic, and as I say I stand corrected. 
 
 

http://www.internationalbiblestudents.org/
Who are the Bible Students?"
The association of International Bible Students has existed continuously since the days of Pastor Charles Taze Russell to the present. In Brother Russell's day, the IBSA was a cooperative association of Bible Student congregations worldwide, all united by the common beliefs taught in Brother Russell's Studies in the Scriptures series. The Watchtower was merely a publishing house and lecture service, with NO central control over these thousands of associated, but independent congregations.
I presume this is out of date then ? 
 

And you presume that people studying the Bible with JWs were ever taught this ?
Well not here in the UK. not back in the 1960's / 70's. 
Do you think this is taught in Kingdom Halls or via vidoe link now ?  
The JW teaching was, and probably still is, that it was a smooth transition from Rusell to Rutherford then to the JW org. 
I don't think you gave a link as to where this diagram came from., but I see it's on Wikipedia.... 

And you presume that people studying the Bible with JWs were ever taught this ?
Well not here in the UK. not back in the 1960's / 70's. 
Do you think this is taught in Kingdom Halls or via vidoe link now ?  
The JW teaching was, and probably still is, that it was a smooth transition from Rusell to Rutherford then to the JW org. 
I don't think you gave a link as to where this diagram came from., but I see it's on Wikipedia.... 

Apostasy in the modern age can pose a danger indirectly too resulting in innocent bystanders to get caught in the crossfire. Most Apostates do not recognize their err in this regard and pretend as if nothing happened, and or simply blame the one whom they are against, be it a religious group and or institution. An example would be the religious group, Islam. Where wrong information was pushed forth resulting in various crimes, the rape and killing of a Muslim girl by some random person who isn't even of the faith, acid being thrown at someone and just Canadian family was ran over by someone purposely, killing them. Apostasy of Islam or those who are fearful of Islam end up blaming the people and the faith itself. Likewise in Christianity, Christians are subjected to the same thing, even manipulated in the same manner.
Although Apostasy, being an alienation from God, it can spell disaster in some instances. A parallel but can also be used as an example - We can even go as far back as the Council of Nicaea, as to when Arius died, some have said the Bishops who proclaim the Trinitarian faith rejoiced.
Now in this regard, you can have apostates bring forth a claim regarding Jesus' crucifixion. Cross or Stake, Hands or Wrist, not realizing one shouldn't be reading into this literally to conclude their own exegesis.
As the cool folks say today, haters hate because they can't appreciate, in turn, haters makes one even more famous.
That being said, Apostasy will remain for up until the conclusion of the End Times the way I see it. As for now religion and politics are the very things being hit hard by the latter, politics in general, although one has to be neutral with them, you still have to watch how they move.

Today is a spiritual repeat of apostasy in Jesus' day.  The greatest threat to the Jewish leaders, was those in Christ who left to follow him - who had once been  "among them", among the Jewish system.   The GB mimic the leadership of the Pharisees, expecting full devotion, detailed service, and obedience above and beyond the Father and the Son.  If this wasn't true, there would be no disfellowshipping for rejecting THEM and THEIR doctrine.  
And then again, "among" those who were anointed, false teachers arose.  Jesus tells us, they could very likely deceive the "elect", the saints.  (Matt 24:24; Acts 20:29)  
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
Don't you take the message of your leaders to others?  Don't you bring this message?  I did not come to JWs, they came to me.  Upon hearing the message, my ears perked up to a few "grains" of truth, as Splane mentioned is the tool of apostates...and then the time came...
"when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."  2 Tim 4:3,4
Fables, i.e. "beliefs clarified" (and how many teachings and false dates were not included in the list?)
HUMAN TEACHINGS, EMPTY DECEPTION.  Col 2:8
What characteristics designate a false teacher, Tom?  Check your beliefs clarified list and apply its evidence to prove your leadership cannot speak truth. And yet, JWs cling to their every word.  (1 Tim 4:1)  If that list was provided to the householder, (an insert flyer in a magazine perhaps?), I wonder how many people would become JWs.  The householder would say,  "Oh, by the way we have compiled our list of empty deception, and felt the need for you to look it over."
Do you see?  What are you defending?  What spiritual substance is there from your organization, that lasts?  (John 15:16)  Just a few grains of truth?  Is that really all that Jesus promised us?  (John 7:38; 4:13,14; Rev 22:17)
 
 
 
 

It is true that all faiths have their apostates. An apostate of the Mormons, for example, is not what JWs would consider an apostate. What we do know is apostates were a preoccupation of the New Testament writers. Not one of them fails to mention them. Peter is especially concerned with them. Jude is exclusively devoted to them and deals with nothing else. 
If it was true then, it should be true today. And nobody has apostates as voracious as Jehovah’s Witnesses. I am proud of them. They validate us. They do indeed make trouble, just as they did in the first century. On the other hand, what if the Witnesses had no apostates? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why?
As to the majority going the atheist route, that is just an impression hard to escape upon going to areas in which they hang out. The most visible ones on social media are undoubtably atheist, scornful of their former faith but also of God. It is in accord with the general trend of society that leans atheist. I don’t know if anyone has actually made a survey of it to find out the exact proportion.

But you know the truth about it. 

Promoting your books again. It seems that is all you are here for. 

Luke 22:36
Berean Study Bible
“Now, however,” He (Jesus) told them, “the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.   
Yes I know that scripture is for entirely different reasons, but it seemed to fit well  '''
Maybe ask @Pudgy what he thinks of guns ? I think he and 'Billy the Kid' might own a few.
It must be terrible to actually live in those conditions though. Here in England it is more knives than guns but no doubt it will get worse.  If I find time I will try to listen to some of the 'new light' from the Org.