Patiently waiting for Truth

"They will be traitors.  They will be reckless and conceited. They will love pleasure rather than God. 5 They will appear to have a godly life, but they will not let its power change them. Stay away from such people.
As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men oppose the truth. Their minds are corrupt, and the faith they teach is counterfeit. 9 Certainly, they won’t get very far. Like the stupidity of Jannes and Jambres, their stupidity will be plain to everyone."  2 Tim 3:4,5,8,9
The organization itself will reveal the GB's stupidity, and  "her" sins.  
The angel also said to me, “The waters you saw, on which the prostitute (GB) is sitting, are people, crowds, nations, and languages. (All JWs)  16 The ten horns (anointed inside, the "kings of the earth" Dan 7:24; Rev 17:12;Rev 1:5) and the beast (organization) you saw will hate the prostitute. They will leave her abandoned and naked. They will eat her flesh and burn her up in a fire. 17 God has made them do what he wants them to do. So they will give their kingdom to the beast until God’s words are carried out. 18 The woman you saw is the important city which dominates the kings of the earth.”  Rev 17:15-18
There are already movements by elders, to remove the GB.  
 
 
 
 

Watchtower 2017, Feb. p. 26  "Who is Leading God's People Today?"
We can also remember the Governing Body by following its instructions and direction. The Governing Body gives us direction through our publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions. It also appoints circuit overseers, who then appoint elders. By carefully following the directions given to them, the circuit overseers and the elders show that they remember the Governing Body. And all of us show respect for our Leader, Jesus, by obeying the men he is using today.—Hebrews 13:17.
18 Another way that we can remember the Governing Body is by doing our best in the preaching work. Hebrews 13:7 urges Christians to imitate the faith of those taking the lead. The Governing Body has shown great faith by zealously preaching and promoting the good news. Are we supporting those brothers in this important work? If we are, we will feel happy when we hear Jesus tell us: “To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.”—Matthew 25:34-40.
This is so ludicrous.  Where does the GB get their directions, if they are not inspired by Holy Spirit?  Isn't it interesting that the quote says to obey the GB, but show respect to Jesus.  It should be the other way around - obey Jesus and his words, and if these men are doing the same, we can then show them respect.  But as you pointed out, it is the GB's direction that must be upheld; and that, above any direction Jesus has already given us.  It is amazing to me that their words carry more weight in the minds of JWs, than those of Jesus Christ.  But it is planned it that way, they have blatantly compared themselves to the apostles.  Instead, they are the false ones that the apostle Paul and Jesus warned us about - 2 Cor 11:12-15
Jesus' words in Rev 2:2 - "I know what you have done—how hard you have worked and how you have endured. I also know that you cannot tolerate wicked people. You have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not apostles. You have discovered that they are liars."
1 John 4:1 - Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
If JWs were obeying the words of Jesus, they would do what both he and the apostle John told us to do, that is to test what these men claim to be, by examining the "fruits"/teachings that they offer.  Matt 7:15-20   They would discover that they are liars.  
And the "least of these my brothers"?  The least of Christ's brothers are being held captive by the power these men have wielded over them. (Matt 24:48-51; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10,15)  The GB are the "great ones" of Mark 10:42-45 that Jesus warned his disciples not to imitate.  
 

Sure. You just didn’t want to leave Walter stranded high and dry. Old softie.

I did start moving it there, and as I read some of the posts, I realized that most of the posts couldn't be moved there and it would seem to some like we were just talking about people behind their back, as it were. Another choice was to lock this thread and allow no more discussion on it over here. Then a new one could be opened up in the Closed Club. At this point it just didn't seem right.

Didn't they do that the moment they declared themselves responsible for the FDS service?
Didn't they do that when they warned the flock that they must be ready to obey every instruction from GB, no matter how unreasonable it seemed?
Didn't they do that when they said that God and Jesus showed complete confidence in them and that JW members should have such an attitude towards GB, too?

I think we tend to misinterpret Acts 20:20, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't preach from house to house. I'm only saying that this isn't what that specific verse is about. We tend to impose a meaning on it that isn't there because of our favored method of preaching. But that doesn't mean that the term "house to house" is a terrible translation, only that we don't think enough about what it must have meant in that particular context.
There are good reasons today to use the house-to-house preaching methods, because there is no central gathering place where people get news and share ideas. In some cities there is something akin to that in certain parks. Union Square Park and Washington Square Park in NYC come to mind as places where people, often from NYU, meet to hold up signs and megaphones to promote an ideology. In fact, I have had success talking to individuals in these parks. But most people are not there to get talked to.
We are "encouraged" to report, it isn't "demanded."

NNWT Act 20 : 20
while I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable* nor from teaching you publiclyp and from house to house
So, Yet another misinterpretation / misuse of scripture by your Governing Body, as a means to control it's congregation and distribute it's propaganda... And on top of that they demand a report of the hours you spend going from house to house. 

Are you kidding? I love the house to house work!! It's true that Rutherford made excuses as to why he didn't participate, but I bet he would have loved it, too, if he had just did done more of it. At least he pushed the laws of the land to make it more legal and more commonplace. Rutherford deserves a lot of credit for why Witnesses have the top reputation for the religion that preaches the kingdom from house-to-house, even after the hiatus.
I think it's also a very appropriate method for today. We don't really have a town square "agora" equivalent today. House to house isn't as effective as some methods, such as good publicity in widely watched media, but it's still the perfect method for most of us.
My true preference is a mix of face-to-face Bible studies for about half my time, and house-to-house for the other half. I like to see the householder's face to see how they are really responding.
In Jesus' day and in Paul's day you could find interest by preaching in a synagogue or town square or another public meeting place, and then follow up on that interest by getting invited to the home to develop the interest of that person/family.

I always enjoyed the house to house work, but I never enjoyed getting up early in the morning, having to shave and put on a monkey suit … er …business suit and going out and sweating as if someone was hosing me down with a sprinkler.
I was told once that the Europeans can always tell Americans on the street because they are the worst dressed people in the world. To me I thought that was a compliment because I am not a “clothes horse” myself.
I strongly suspect, almost to the point of certainty, that if the Society would relax their dress standards and allow casualwear it would double or triple the publishers that would present themselves for Service.
One thing I know for an ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY …. and that is that the general public does NOT disparage casual dress or beards.
It has been 75 or so years since suits and Roman Army face shaving has been the norm.
However, my favorite form of Field Service would be to collect about a hundred or so tons of old magazines that have piled up at Witnesses’ houses, and over medium to large cities, shovel them out the back of a C-130 cargo plane.

No, one could not. Again, you misunderstand everything.
The day any member of the Governing Body takes full and personal credit for any deed performed on his watch, ignoring Jehovah, then and only then will your scripture have relevance. 
If you approach a Witness public speaker with commendation after a fine talk, he will more often than not murmur something to the effect that it is not he but Jehovah. He says this even though it is perfectly possible to give a persuasive talk without any input at all from Jehovah. Lots of people in the world speak persuasively.
So what are we to make of someone who takes full personal credit for doing what no human in a thousand years would be able to do?
and in accord with the principle, ‘to he who has been given much, much will be demanded.’ It was needed discipline that will benefit Moses. 
Find an instance where a member of the Governing Body has taken personal credit for some deed, to the exclusion of Jehovah. We will all wait for your apology and retraction.

Also what about angels? They must have still had the ability to guide circumstances here and there on earth, even when the spiritual gifts waned.
And there was another practical method of preaching that we don't have. There was a reason that Paul didn't go from house to house. And there was a reason that Jesus forbid the 70 disciples from going house to house. It was because you had an immediate assembly as soon as got into the gates of most towns/cities. You could begin announcing the reason for your visit in the town square and draw a crowd. There was no reason to go from house to house. It would be a waste of time (and they were never going to finish the circuit of towns in Israel as it was).
But there was always a chance to find multiple favorable ears, all that would listen, by just walking into a town and start preaching to the crowd in the marketplace, the square, the agora.

In times of serious importance, then Yes. But nothing that important goes on here.  
In my opinion most people here do have a few things thing in common. We all want God's Kingdom to be firmly established in Heaven and on Earth. We all want God through Yeshua / Jesus to rule over mankind. We all want peace on Earth. 
We just have different views as to how those things will be accomplished. 

Persecution, from Jewish religious leaders at first, and Romans soon after, can also act as a unifying force, and creates a lot of publicity and concern over who these people are and exactly what is the claim against them.
There were a lot of prejudices, I think, in the Roman empire against Jews in some circles (and many of the Christians were treated as if the same as Jews). But Romans also put up with a lot of religious variety, including some "novel" ones, and many found the Jewish religion very appealing too. (Probably due to its sense of historical purpose, and better-documented claims of ancient origins, and a more rational story of creation than the Greek/Roman pantheons.)
Also, I think that the Christian variety of Judaism was one that some Roman political leaders did have a use for. It taught peace and cooperation with the political rulers, right up to the point where they wanted to force the worship of pagan gods or forbid the Christians their preaching ministry. If the Romans would learn not to push them too far, they were ideal citizens. 
Maybe not most, but the Greek mindset of the elites often found the idea of listening to new ideas (seedpickers) appealing.
I'd have to agree. This must have been a big thing in the first century. Although Christianity began reporting huge numbers in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, when we assume that these gifts had already faded to near non-existence.
It's possible, like some scholars claim, that the quick growth of Christianity outside "Palestine" was based on the appeal to wealthier Greek/Roman proselytes to Judaism. A lot of the synagogue funds for the Jewish diaspora had been coming from these families who had found Judaism appealing. But now a new version of Judaism had developed that had all the appeal of Judaism, but with a more urgent purpose, vibrant "living" beliefs, a much more appealing "Lord" and an imminent solution to political problems and injustices. And no pressure to circumcise!!!
The movie "Agora" (2009) doesn't claim to explain Christianity's rise in the early centuries, but it's historically sound enough to give us a good idea that the appeal for many adherents was more economic than spiritual. Christianity, to them, was a socialist revolution, with enough wealthy adherents to cover the needs of the poorest, through re-distribution.
(This probably doesn't belong to the Rutherford topic either, but ...)

From the event related to Moses (and not only him), one could conclude differently. Just before entering the Promised Land, Moses ignored the instruction he received from God (concerning water for a thirsty people). The "punishment" was swift and irreversible.
The duty and privilege of leading the people to enter the Promised Land has been delegated to new people, Joshua and Caleb and others.

Sigh—I thought this was put into the closed group—that’s why I upvoted it—where it should have been in the first place (IMO) but it was not.
 It is so wearing for opposers, who misunderstand fundamental ways of how God deals with humans, to malign the Witness organization based upon false premises. 
The trick is, not to sanitize the present, but to desanitize the past. Plenty of responsible ones in Bible history have said or done wrong or clumsy things, yet continued to be used prominently in Jehovah’s service. No reason to think it would be any different today.

I moved a lot of the comments from here over top another topic:
https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/89872-posts-moved-from-a-recent-topic-about-a-jfrutherford-book/
 

Sorry - I had problems with the reply and it posted.... lol. This has been going on for quite some years.  Muslims are "voluntarily" going for re-education to these work camps where they are forced to listen to government re-education and then write tests.  On non-private interviews (someone from govt watching), they are in fear and they all say they are very happy.   Their children (who have been taken away and put in schools for the right education) are now learning that the state cares for them also with state propaganda.
Their parents make clothing (forced labor) for the State who in turn gets contracts from Nike and other  top brand Western companies.  
The other secret which rarely gets coverage in western media and only "leaks" out at unfortunate moments, is the Falun Gong sect which has been vilified by the government to such an extent that no-one cares when they are killed for their body parts.  CCP have been doing this for 20 years and make profit from high officials coming from other countries.  One can get a perfect match for your transplant within 2 weeks.  60,000 transplants are done per year (this is what I found out while I could still get this kind of information - A few years back Chinese doctors in america where making arrangements for transplants in china and getting information this way.  There are 6 or 7 (cannot remember ) hospitals dedicated 24-7 hours a day to transplants. About 60, 000 a year. People (whose DNA is a match),  are taken in and their organs harvested while they are alive and then put directly into the waiting patient.
Reports came out to the UN a few years back that this was going on.  China assured them it will not happen again.  All that changed was that less information is coming out of China regarding this. Now and then there are headlines which indicates that there are more allegations but rarely investigated.  You will notice that this BBC report is showing pictures of Muslins before 2019.  After this most of the records seem to be encrypted.
The UN is so blind - they think that China is the model to follow..... but I am not surprised,  even other WEF trained leaders such as Trudeau think China's dictatorship is wonderful. He has openly said so.

I should have never started this discussion in the JW Open Club, and I was warned not to. I just started to move some posts that are not closely enough related to early Watchtower history, or which produced unrelated distractions from that topic. It's an imperfect process, since so many comments cover multiple topics.
If anyone believes their comments were germane to the original discussion, I'll move them back. There are still plenty of good and interesting points that have been moved over here, and I hope that doesn't mean the ideas will get lost in the shuffle.

Yes - 1.3 million in re-education camps.  This has been going on for q

Words so profound and wise you could make a religious symbol.  <==><

I also found great wisdom, understanding and healing in the words of a flexible rubber, battery powered mounted fish on a wall plaque that turned to face me when I pushed the button. The mouth moved and said ….
“You can be happy …. if you want to.“!

Can’t we all just ….. get along?

Interpol, CIA, FBI  😂

……he can certainly get rid of a dodo.
He’s already conceded your point.

Yes we do, we definitely think it all through.