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Patiently waiting for Truth

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  1. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    You misjudged my feelings. I don’t care in that context, because I’m beyond/outside your JW concept. Drawing “old light” into the light of present time and present context serves to illustrate the WTJWorg context.  
    If the historical context is to show that former JW leaders were only in some kind of "theological error", so their false beliefs should not be taken for evil, not to be blamed, then on the basis of such "historical experience" we should expect the same recklessness of today's JW theologian.
    Because, why would it be any different? Just because today is 2022, not 1939? What kind of guarantee is that? Today, these JWs are smarter (have spirit) more than their predecessors were before?
    So you're suggesting that the truth needs to be adapted to the "historical context"? Then you tear down your own claim, that the truth is always the truth. 
    If the context of the event needs to change the conclusion about what is right and what is wrong (true and false), then we have a bigger problem than the one we are discussing.
    The context of the event can help in understanding how and why something happened. For example, JW committed adultery. Circumstances of how it came about and what happened next can help someone understand the person and the situation. Will our knowledge of the circumstances (context) of the event simultaneously create our feelings about the person and will some justify him and others condemn him? Probably yes. But what should JW conclude about whether adultery is allowed or not? What does "religious truth" conclude about this?
    What should I conclude from that fact? That the truth turned a blind eye to racism and allowed the practice of racism in the JW Congregation because U.S. law legalized the lie about whites and blacks?
  2. Haha
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    You are comparing  the progression of Wt's "new light" to bell bottoms and hair styles?
    Well, that about sums it up.  
  3. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Every one of them should whine loudly in defense of the Temple of God.  And if they whine loud enough and speak up for truth in Christ's teachings, you as an elder (if you are still an elder) are allowed by your leadership to disfellowship them, indicating by a lie that they no longer are spiritually alive in God’s eyes.  (John 16:2,3; Rev 13:15)
    But that is a good thing, sacrificing the life they had known, perhaps loved, to follow Jesus Christ who is truth.  John 14:6
    “For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life because of me will save it.”  Luke 9:24
    "I know your works. Look, I have placed before you an open door that no one can close because you have but little power; yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name."  Rev 3:8
     
  4. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Matthew 24 : 22
    English Standard Version
    "And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."
    Well I think this shows that YHWH and Yeshua think the Anointed are IMPORTANT. 
    So if you, xero, want to think otheriwise it may be to your own detriment. 
     
  5. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Matthew 24 : 22
    English Standard Version
    "And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."
    Well I think this shows that YHWH and Yeshua think the Anointed are IMPORTANT. 
    So if you, xero, want to think otheriwise it may be to your own detriment. 
     
  6. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Ha-ha.  I just laugh at the ridiculousness!  Witness and Srecko  quote an old watchtower and you have a peeve with that!  LOL.
    I have repeated so often on this forum that one must put historical actions and attitudes in the light of the period.
    If I had the right to go through your life and nitpick it like you do the witnesses  - I am sure I will find some very strange things in there.  Especially the things you did, especially if you grew up in the 60s, 70s, or 80s.   Millennials find our big hair and bell bottoms very funny.  Well, the things people found acceptable in that time was good enough for them..... the light is getting brighter! 
    In the 60s in USA many people who came in the truth still had racist ideas - earlier then that there was lynching's etc. 
    While they never allowed racism in the congregations, I am sure that black brothers did not always feel comfortable and wondered why the anointed were mostly white.  There are so many things we can find  with a nitpicking attitude to be judgmental...... and I always notice this in your comments  that you do not have a good historical sense.  You want the truth to be truth with no changes......... people may not change or you hold their feet to the fire!
    Well - I am a witness because they are indeed prepared to make changes and grow...... they do not stay stagnant without moving forward in understanding!
  7. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    No my dear - only a stumbling block for those who have BIG egos. They do not fit in.
  8. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Interesting, isn't it?  That "new light" removes the light source in Christ.  John 8:12
     
    How many elders are there world-wide?
    From what I understand, there were around 20,000 who were partakers during your memorial.  Excluding those who partook that are not anointed, and women, what number is left that could serve in the capacity of your elders worldwide?  Throwing out three men who are both elders and anointed is a moot point considering the massive size of the elder body.
    These anointed elders are working alongside “representatives” of God’s priests. Because of their blindness, or stubbornness, they don’t realize that they are “living stones” of God’s Temple/”house”/sanctuary in Spirit.  They “are” the Temple -  1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22
    No one was to “represent” God’s priesthood in the early temples. (Ezek 44:6-9; 2 Chron 13:9) In the days of Uzziah, what happened when he brazenly offered incense in the Temple?  (2 Chron 26:18)  The priests came after him. 
    Uzziah, with a firepan in his hand to offer incense, was enraged. But when he became enraged with the priests, in the presence of the priests in the Lord’s temple beside the altar of incense, a skin disease broke out on his forehead. 20 Then Azariah the chief priest and all the priests turned to him and saw that he was diseased on his forehead. They rushed him out of there. He himself also hurried to get out because the Lord had afflicted him. 2 Chron 26:19,20
    “For whatever was written in the past was written for our instruction, so that we may have hope through endurance and through the encouragement from the Scriptures.”  Rom 15:4
    Your anointed elders are not defending the spiritual Temple from “Gentiles” not sanctioned as God’s priests.  God’s Temple is built on the anointed.  The “man of lawlessness” “sits” (to set, appoint, to confer a kingdom on one )  in God’s Temple.  2 Thess 2:3,4
    The elder body have appointed themselves as God’s priests,  and are ruling as a “kingdom” over the anointed priests/Temple of God. 
    There is no other entity in the world, that can fulfill the coming of the man of lawlessness.  JWs who love their arrangement in the elder body and organization, are condoning the existence of the man of lawlessness; preferring their “organizational arrangement” over the arrangement God had put in place in his Son. 
    “Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the Gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.”  Rev 11:1,2
    When the anointed are replaced by elders not anointed there is no truth. (1 John 2:20)  Truth is thrown down to the ground.  (Dan 8:11,12)
  9. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to xero in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    People who whine about anointed stuff are just a bunch of Karens.
  10. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Do you not think the anointed don't do this? I know for sure they do.
    I know three anointed brothers who are also elders.
    It seems this is what your main gripe is really about
  11. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    I gave you quotes from your magazines that uphold Lett's words, and do not uphold your thoughts on the matter.  That was my point.  There is no distinction between those who reject the JW message at the door as the wicked,  from what the articles say the wicked include - which is all people found outside of the organization.  
  12. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    You mean, like the elder body who attend their own meetings and attend elder schools – a privileged appointment of men who say they “represent the royal priesthood”?  Is this what you mean? 
    Only because men in power have told them this. Do you hold these men up to the level of the apostles?  
    The scriptures tells us that they must bond.  1 Cor 12:14-26
    The apostles were active priests.  Only your organization has taken away their activity as a collective body.  Nowhere in the word of God does it say that the anointed are to remain idle until the Kingdom of God.  Eph 2:20-22
    I am presenting scripture to uphold my point.  You are presenting the doctrine of men to uphold their organization’s requirements.  None of that doctrine harmonizes with what the scriptures teach about the anointed ones.
    “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light”  1 Pet 2:5
    The anointed in your organization cannot proclaim God’s praises of truth, without men regulating what they say.   Oh, and they cannot act as priests since the elders have replaced them!  (Mal 2:7; 2 Thess 2:3,4)
    The organization is a stumbling block for the anointed.  They have receded in the background, not following the example that the apostles set out for them.
      Nevertheless, I have written to remind you more boldly on some points[i] because of the grace given me by God 16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, serving as a priest of the gospel of God. God’s purpose is that the Gentiles may be an acceptable offering, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.  Rom 15:15,16
    If you love the arrangement that you see in the Wt., you are obeying the doctrine of men, over the word of God.  Ezek 44:6-9
     
     
  13. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Yes, you're good at twisting and flipping words around I must admit.
  14. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    She also insists that we believe that 99.9% of people will be destroyed (or whatever number it is) because Br. Lett said so, and that Br.Lett (or was it Morris) also decides who is wicked. I find it too tedious to argue such nonsense...
  15. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    This is rubbish. That would be like saying you can't bond with your brothers and sisters or seek out friends from other congregations.
    You know very well that what was meant was that the anointed should not group together for the purpose of organizing a kind of "elite" club and separating themselves from the rest of the flock. The anointed feel they do not need to do this in order to be members of Christ's body. Christ's body is not dependent on physical or spiritual closeness only with each other. The anointed know they are part of Christ's body and humbly work with the congregation they are at, encouraging and supporting the rest of the flock. The Christian congregation does not consist of "us" and "them" but it is one united flock. It is after their resurrection all anointed will be physically together in heaven with Jesus, and they humbly wait for this. "Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance.  It is reserved in the heavens for you"  (1 Peter 1:3,4 )
  16. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Then it is really strange how once the fundamental truth was that YHVH commands the worship of Christ, and now you believe in another truth. Has the biblical text, translation, interpretation, or anything else changed?
    https://ia600902.us.archive.org/5/items/WatchtowerLibrary/magazines/w/w1939_E.pdf
     

  17. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    My spiritual “extended family” includes  exjws found worldwide, both anointed and disciples of Christ. We also have a few who never became JWs.  But I've said this before.  We care for one another freely, we support one another in various ways that you can’t imagine.  There is no possibility of having this connection between anointed ones in the organization.  Remember that are not to bond together, and the anointed are not be sought out? 
    The anointed have no family in Christ in the organization, because they are restricted by men’s doctrines.  They have no association with the GB/ "anointed" in charge.  Tell me, is that how an extended family shows love to their fellow brothers and sisters?  If I or any anointed one was to show up at Warwick and asked to speak to my fellow brothers in Christ, would I be allowed to?  No.  They are too afraid that their power over all of you, will be shattered by any truth that would come from another anointed one's heart; so, they have set in place doctrine to avoid that. They practice exactly what they sarcastically tell anointed not to do. 
    Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior. They would also never suggest to others that these too have been anointed and should start partaking; rather, they would humbly acknowledge that it is Jehovah who does the calling of anointed ones. Wt 16/1
    Flip these words around:
    Immodestly, the GB claim to have more holy spirit than their anointed brothers and sisters.  They claim that you must listen only to them and their special knowledge that they receive from "Jehovah's organization" (how does THAT work?).  They try to prove that they are superior and demand obedience to them and their doctrine. They certainly suggest that they have been anointed, and that "Jehovah" chose them to be the one and only "faithful and discreet slave".  
    Deceitfully, they have isolated themselves from all other anointed ones, not seeking them out, and  not bonding with them.  After all, these other anointed ones "do not necessarily have more holy spirit" than the GB.  So why "go there".    Literally, they have gated themselves out of "harm's" way.  They preserve their power and their fleshly desires to build and rule.  Phil 3:17-19
    And this fulfills your definition of family in Christ? 
    I gave scriptures proving that your organization follows the doctrine of men concerning baptism, and not that of Jesus Christ; and you are bristling at the word of God?  Are you stating that it is vile?   
     
     
  18. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Anna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    I have heard it said (by elders too) that if we get to the other side, we may be surprised at who we see there and surprised at who we don't see there. Which goes to show that although we might have ideas, and judge others, we just don't know, only God does.
  19. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Sorry Arauna but this brings us back to the Superior Authorities scripture in Romans for one thing.
    It also brings us back to the number of times the Watchtower / Bible Students / JW Org have made predictions which have not come true.
    I find it strange that some on here criticise @Witness for her words but you are happy to allow for your own Leaders to have told lies / make deliberate mistakes / misuse scripture.  I do not see any balance there. 
     
  20. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Witness in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Sorry Arauna but this brings us back to the Superior Authorities scripture in Romans for one thing.
    It also brings us back to the number of times the Watchtower / Bible Students / JW Org have made predictions which have not come true.
    I find it strange that some on here criticise @Witness for her words but you are happy to allow for your own Leaders to have told lies / make deliberate mistakes / misuse scripture.  I do not see any balance there. 
     
  21. Sad
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Arauna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Sorry Arauna but this brings us back to the Superior Authorities scripture in Romans for one thing.
    It also brings us back to the number of times the Watchtower / Bible Students / JW Org have made predictions which have not come true.
    I find it strange that some on here criticise @Witness for her words but you are happy to allow for your own Leaders to have told lies / make deliberate mistakes / misuse scripture.  I do not see any balance there. 
     
  22. Like
    Patiently waiting for Truth got a reaction from Arauna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Well i did actually find this funny. But it does show that you read other people's commets too.
    Your one sentance here was well put together. Thankyou.  
  23. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Srecko Sostar in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Can we claim that every word, letter, and comma in the Bible is true? I don’t think so, because there are countless copies and there are countless translations and there are countless interpretations of this book. 
    Changes to the text were made not only by non-JW experts, but also by the JW individuals themselves who participated in the creation of the several NWT Bible translations.
    Since, as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then we can also say that the truth is in the subjectivity of each individual. Whether an individual is more or less subject to external influences and creates his own judgment after absorbing all such factors is not always possible to determine. But we can generally agree that sometimes it is difficult to classify a physical reality as truth or falsehood. How often this is in vain in the sphere of the spiritual and moral / ethical when it comes to religious doctrines.
    WTJWorg is unfortunately a great example of how “some truth” becomes a half-truth or a complete lie. The history of changed doctrines provides irrefutable proof and confirmation. Your statement should be accurate and true in its very claim and strength, and I adhere to the idea that truth is true and cannot be half-true. But it all falls into the water because people have the tools with which, because of which our common hope turns into futile desire.
  24. Downvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Arauna in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Those who were baptized in the time of Jesus formed a congregation and they worked together as a congregation.  They were so separate from other religions that it was called "The Way".  Loyalty to Jehovah, Jesús and their brothers was of utmost importance.  Paul writes in his letters about the love in the congregation and how it must be expanded. Many sold their property to give to the congregation and share what they had with brothers so there could be an 'equalizing".  The hospitality was outstanding and Paul often stayed with those whom accepted the faith. So, true faith is about serving the family of faith and looking after them - accepting them as your extended family and being part of that family. Acknowledging they are your true brothers and sisters.  
    Where is your extended family that you have become part of when you were baptized? (congregation, or body of Christ which you always refer to), those who share the same beliefs as you do?  
    You - are truly the one that twists words all the time.... and while you have a right to say the most vile things and the most untruthful and crazy  things on this forum to get a like from all haters of JWs, we do not for moment even consider your extrapolations as honest or truthful because all your arguments have gaping holes in them!
  25. Upvote
    Patiently waiting for Truth reacted to Witness in How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.   
    Shouldn’t they complain?  Wt’s baptism is not based on scripture, it is a doctrine of men – the twisting of Christ’s words.  We have warning after warning not to change the word of God, and it matters not if the Amish baptize into their church.  Making the comparison does not condone the Wt. to do so, especially since your leaders say they strictly follow the scriptures.  This gives good evidence that they do not!
    “You abandon the commandments of God to follow human traditions.”  Mark 7:8
    Christ gave a commandment about baptizing.  Do we dare think we can change this commandment that comes from the Father?
    "All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines."  Col 2:22
    "‘These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
    Their worship of me is pointless,
    because their teachings are rules made by humans.’ ”  Matt 15:8,9
     
     
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