Patiently waiting for Truth

So you agree w/me that people should NOT forsake the gathering of themselves together or isolate themselves?
For me, I'm trying to get past all the long phrases, changes in font sizes and colors along with bolding to get to a simple answer to what appears to me to be a simple question.
I was thinking in addition, so if there are people who profess to be anointed and these understand the importance of gathering themselves together and these don't. One would imagine this to be on them for failure to obey.
 

Jesus was the last in the sense that he was resurrected by God himself ,and as for verse 8 where it says God is coming as such with an expression of his all-powerfulness .look in the insight book volume 1 under almighty .hope this helps

Your exactly right brother....I often think as you just articulated..we know so much but really so little....Jehovah loves a seeker..a searcher of the scriptures...but that doesn’t mean the reward will be any different than one that’s is not quiet so interested in scriptures ..but has bowed their knee to their God Jehovah.
The things we may grasp a little earlier can be a stumbling stone..as Jesus was with the Pharisees...or it can develop in us a much admired and treasured thing...that is highly favoured by Jehovah...humility and grace in remembering where we came from..( I was sort of a heathen from the world ) I owe my life because of the witnessing work..organised by the then GB
I liken us as the same as the Israelites that were cornered at the Red Sea...Pharaoh bearing down and the mountains on one side the sea in the front ...
So where is this God Jehovah they all submitted to...nothing is turning out as promised...let’s stone Moses and Aaron in our fear or disappointment...
( and NO I do not liken Moses to the GB) 
BUT..ones perhaps with a little more faith..or insight ...bore up..and did not panic..or push ahead...now THAT is the type of faith he loves....mind you they were probably wetting themselves in fear whilst waiting for him to act.
We know so very little..even when we  say we know a lot!..( or think it) and besides....I remember where I came from🙂 I’m not sure if it is intentional as you think..perhaps it is...but it’s very important as to how we act with insights we may THINK we have....it’s there for all to search for.......but we often have to search so hard....we have to use the lamp..and bend our back...possibly in a uncomfortable position for a long time to find that spiritual gem or insight.
But how we handle that gem.  Shows our true personality...

You might find this recent comment by an anointed one helpful.
Both Jesus and the Father are referred to, as Alpha and Omega. Does this mean that they are the same person?
Nothing about Alpha or Omega, means 'the same nature'. That is not to say that God and Christ are not the same nature [they are both divine spirit, just as all sons of God become (2Pet.1:4)], but that similarity of nature, is not expressed in either "Alpha' or 'Omega'.
Neither do each of those words mean "uncreated, eternal, atemporal, or timeless".
We are told at John 1:1 that "In the beginning".
That of itself is speaking of a moment in time, a start... not eternity. That verse continues... "In the beginning, the Word/Logos, was."
We are told that the Word exists, "In the beginning" of God's creation
(John1:1; 1John1:1; Prov.8:22-31; Col.1:15-17; Rev.3:14).
Alpha and Omega simply mean, first and last.
Can two different identities be first and last, and remain two different identities?
Of course.
As a simple example, an only son is the first and last son.
If he marries and has an only son, that son is also, first and last. Yet they remain, two different people.
But how does this compare to the identity difference between God and Christ, while both of them are Alpha and Omega... First and Last?
The Bible tells us.
The Logos, was the first of all creation.
Jesus Christ is the FIRSTborn of the new creation (Rom.8:29; 2Cor.5:17).
But that NEW creation, finally allows God to enter His Sabbath Rest permanently, and able to declare with finality, all things Good. He made that declaration at the end of the physical creation (Gen.1:31; 2:2), but it did not last (Gen.6:5-6; Rom.8:20-22; John5:17; Heb.4:9-11).
The start/FIRSTborn of that NEW, incorruptible creation, is the resurrection of Christ... the LAST Adam (1Cor.15:45) because from him (the "eternal father" -Isa.9:6) all others receive life. He is the Alpha (FIRSTborn born of the New Creation) and Omega (LAST Adam/man, needing to be created) of the New Creation, because all those after him, come from him.
"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the *last Adam, a life-giving spirit."*
Does this mean that when God declares Himself Alpha and Omega, that he is saying that He is Jesus Christ?
No, because God tells us what He means, by being the first and the last...
Isa.43: "10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
***Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me."***
So, Is God the *first Almighty God?
Is He the *last Almighty God to ever be?
Can any other god be compared to him, or be equal to him in likeness, including His eternal sovereignty?
(Phil.2:7; Isa.40:18,25,28; 43:13; Ps.93:2).
How then, would He come to be in the likeness of men?
He did not. The Logos/Jesus, did.
No creation, compares to the eternally unchanging Father of Jesus Christ.
So, two different persons can share being first and last, but that does not mean that they are first and last in the same regard, or to the same degree, or must be the same person.
Both Jesus and God can be described as an Alpha and Omega;
but that does not mean that they are the same person, or first and last in the same way.
Yes, the Logos emptied himself, became a human, and even died.
Major changes.
Yet God never changes (Ps.90:2; 102:24,27; Mal.3:6; James1:17; Gen.21:33; Job.36:26; Jer.10:10; Hab.1:12)
If He is indeed the peerless God, from everlasting, to everlasting (Ps.90:2)... then He has never died.
 
 
 
 

Thinking...what I often wonder is whether it's intentionally ambiguous to make us constantly try to solve the puzzle, and in trying we're forced into a spiritual pattern of reanalysis and humility as we realize how we know so much and yet so little and in knowing this we can see when people imagine themselves to be wiser than they actually are and for doing so not only realize this in ourselves but perhaps reconcile ourselves towards being a little less critical of the missteps of others as these have also tried and failed.
In the end those counted as meek aren't the ones who've solved all the puzzles.

I THINK..which doesn’t mean a lot...but hear goes..from what I’ve read..the Alpha and Omega can mean both Jesus and Jehovah...Jesus being the first creation of Jehovah and the last creation by him to be resurrected .
Its a title that they both can lay rightful ownership off...( obviously only after Jesus proved successful ) 
I have also come to the conclusion that no one can understand Revelation unless they really understand the Hebrew Scriptures ...the secrets or keys to understand revelation is in them.
 

I find the first parts, easy, but then other parts leave me confused. I've been reading others interpretations and these haven't been helpful either. This is what's led me to wonder if some things which we imagine have already occurred are yet to occur also whether some things which are thought to be symbolic may actually be literal. In the other interpretation there are preterists, who say it's all completed. (doesn't make sense to me).
I just don't know. The later parts are easy enough, Satan in the Abyss, 1000 yr reign, released, rebellion and final removal are also easy enough. (Though one would wonder why anyone would rebel again)
I wish I could be more confident, but I'm not. Of course this could just be my problem. Maybe I've deflected and haven't figured that out yet. I try hard to not pester other people with my obsessions, but when people act as if they have it all figured out, I just think "I don't know. Seems stretchy from here."

Maybe the watchtower is working with the catholic church?

I know a JW brother who has done regular pioneering service for years without an appointment. But he wanted that appointment so badly, and the elders refused to give it to him. One year (1985) he went to Belgrade, then there was the Chief Bethel for Yugoslavia. After talks with the main representative, Brother Miloš, the Zagreb elders and Zagreb's Bethel were influenced, and he was finally appointed.
:)))
One elder in ex congregation doing similar. He came to a meeting for FS, gave a speech and then went home or for some other job :))

I've done all of these, however in all these there's flexibility. Anyone who's been an elder understands this. As regards time, I've always had issues w/time as a measurement, all the other elders I know understand this as well. It doesn't indicate spirituality. Also some have social anxiety (very hard for a JW). I rebelled for a time in my own way by not signing up to auxiliary pioneer, and then turn in (really did the time) in excess of the time required. This I did just to irritate some elders.
I told them I was that guy who said he wouldn't go into the vineyard, but did anyway. Besides I was obviously there for evening meetings for FS (so the argument for being encouraging was moot - physical presence is certainly encouraging). I just felt that these announcements as to who was auxiliary pioneering this month was becoming a bit like trumpeting ones' gifts of mercy and having one's reward in full and I felt the giving in secret was better.
What were they to do. Tell me I was a horrid individual for putting in auxiliary pioneer time, while not signing a paper?
I felt that this was between me and Jehovah, so sure, afterwards I reported my time.
As a measurement of FS, check. As a genuflecting to men. Not so much.

Don't you own the "Shepherding the Flock of God", book?  Aren't you guided by that book during judicial matters?
Do you give talks from outlines that you must adhere to?
Do you collect "time"?
Are you in charge of the donations?
What are your jobs as an elder?
If you don't do any of this, then no...you are not a company man, and soon will not be an elder.
 
 

Sometimes what people call twisting words, is simply a clarification.
So you agree that it's absolutely wrong for people to go to a church/kingdom hall/synagogue/mosque to worship. Instead they should go it alone?
What about the scripture which says "He that is isolating himself seeks his own selfish longing..."?
What about not forsaking the gathering together as some have the custom?
It would seem that you're encouraging both.
If you don't want that, you should at least start a meetup group to consider your spiritual interests with others on a regular basis.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/february/jordan-christians-evangelicals-courts-archbishop-atallah.html
I thought this was strangely interesting 
 
Long-simmering suspicions between Orthodox and evangelical Christians have blown up recently over the refusal of the Jordanian government to allow evangelical churches full legal standing under the country’s religiously divided judicial system.
In Jordan, the legal system is divided into civil courts, where commercial and criminal cases are heard, and separate religious courts that settle matters of marriage, divorce, and child custody according to canon law for the majority-Muslim population and for the 11 recognized Christian communities.
But now this bit 
While United Pentecostal and Jehovah’s Witnesses members are allowed their own ecclesiastical courts, legal matters for members of nearly 60 other Protestant churches are heard in civil court, or, for minor matters, work through the court of the Anglican Church, one of the 11 approved denominations.
But on February 5, in response to Atallah’s letter, Judge Mohammad Al Ghazo, who heads Jordan’s Judicial Council, issued a memo disqualifying any Christian without an approved ecclesiastical court from using the civilian courts. Cases would instead be referred to the Council of Church Leaders, a government advisory body.

But ho

I've just started reading Revelation. This time I'm trying to concentrate on every word. 
An old, wise, Elder once said to me, "Every thing in the Bible is there for a reson. It's not just to take up space". 
Revelation chapter One. v5 & 6
To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6  and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.
So this is to the Anointed ones.
v 7 & 8....  Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him.  Yes, Amen.8  “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”
Now this confuses me a bit. Verse 7 is talking about Jesus. It says He is coming with the clouds. 
But verse 8 is talking about GOD, and it says 'and who is coming'.    
So, are they both coming ? If so how ?
Also verse 8 says, “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God" which is fully understandable as Almighty God has always existed and always will. 
But verse 17 says, "And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 
And this is Jesus speaking 
So God is the Alpha and the Omega, and Jesus is the First and the Last.  This will need some explaining. 
I've said that i understand the bit about God, but I'm not sure about the bit concerning Jesus
Jesus was of course God's First creation.....   But in what way is Jesus the Last ? 

I have read Revelation many times. We 'studied' that Revelation book at least three times in the 'ye olde book study' of a Tuesday evening. But i think that book has been d/fed now .
I'm now trying to read the Greek Scriptures, word for word, not rushing through. I don't expect to understand much because I'm not Anointed, but reading scripture is relaxing and does help me to reason on life and living. 

I've just started reading Revelation. This time I'm trying to concentrate on every word. 
An old, wise, Elder once said to me, "Every thing in the Bible is there for a reson. It's not just to take up space". 
Revelation chapter One. v5 & 6
To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6  and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.
So this is to the Anointed ones.
v 7 & 8....  Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him.  Yes, Amen.8  “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”
Now this confuses me a bit. Verse 7 is talking about Jesus. It says He is coming with the clouds. 
But verse 8 is talking about GOD, and it says 'and who is coming'.    
So, are they both coming ? If so how ?
Also verse 8 says, “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God" which is fully understandable as Almighty God has always existed and always will. 
But verse 17 says, "And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 
And this is Jesus speaking 
So God is the Alpha and the Omega, and Jesus is the First and the Last.  This will need some explaining. 
I've said that i understand the bit about God, but I'm not sure about the bit concerning Jesus
Jesus was of course God's First creation.....   But in what way is Jesus the Last ? 

Don't twist my words Elder.
There in no organisation serving God properly right now, BUT, that does not mean there are no 'people' serving God properly right now.
However YOUR GB tell the Anointed NOT TO GATHER TOGETHER.  So who is at fault there ? 
As a side note : When Russell 'ruled'  the Watchtower, he said there was no need for an organisation.  And he was the foundation of your Org.
Quote "The reason you give is that they are all imperfect." 
I never gave that reason. That is you twisting words Elder.  You see Elder, you are just a servant of the GB and the Org, and your words here prove that. 
I think it is very sad that you find it necessary to twist my words. But unfortunately the GB & Co have brainwashed you to a point where you do not recognise truth anymore it seems. Either that or you prefer to put lies in the place of truth. 

You are good for a laugh. So is good old Tom. 
JW's serve the Watchtower / JW Org. They do not serve God through Jesus Christ. JW's stand (or did) at a cart / trolly full of GB dictated literature. Now that is serving the GB / Org. ... JWs used to go door to door with similar GB dictated literature, amd JWs do, so called, Bible studies, but again with GB dictated books.  It is all based on GB, uninspired indeas. It's what the 'world' would call propaganda.  As for the roadmap, it changes every couple of years, direction and length.
 

We can be part of collectively adhering to the truth of Christ, (which is determined by God and Jesus) or collectively adhering to the lies of men.  But, all of us stand as individuals before Christ at the end.   If accused of tolerating and favoring lies, we cannot say, “but our leaders told us to abide by their teachings!”  Matt 7:21-23
Do JWs realize that as a collective, they are not saved?  Individuals who defied God’s direction in the wilderness during the days of Moses, were not saved because they were part of Israel.
“They have contradicted the Lord
and insisted, “It won’t happen.
Harm won’t come to us;
we won’t see sword or famine.”
13 The prophets become only wind,
for the Lord’s word is not in them.
This will in fact happen to them.”  Jer 5:12,13
The Lord said:  “These people approach me with their speeches
to honor me with lip-service,
yet their hearts are far from me,
and human rules direct their worship of me.” Isa 29:13 
 
@Srecko Sostar, you brought out the simple scripture not long ago, that tells us to stay away from establishing “organization”; and all religious organizations have a centralized authority. We cannot claim that any religion organized by men on this earth, will lead us to eternal life. 
“A dispute also arose among them, which of them was considered to be greatest. 25 He said to them, “The kings of the nations (“Gentiles”/elders)  lord it over them, and those who have authority over them (the “Gentiles”) are called ‘benefactors.’ (“friends of the people” – the GB) 26 But not so with you. But one who is the greater among you, let him become as the younger, and one who is governing, as one who serves.”  Luke 22:24-26
He reiterated this plea in John 4, saying God is seeking those who only worship Him in “spirit and truth”. John 4:21-24  For 2,000 years, the only religious organizations during that time period have proven to be false.  Yet, true believers outside of these organizations, still worshiped in spirit and truth. They put their trust in God only. And who can say otherwise, the WT?
If the need for an earthly organization to worship God is found necessary, that person is unable to take confidence in God and Christ, to lead them into truth. 
 

To some extent, we have established the fact that all people are equal, and that everyone is capable of doing good and doing evil.
What is the common theology of the Catholic Church and WTJWorg? Love God and love your neighbor. In fact, it is the only important thread of Jesus' teaching. The practice of these principles in life is colorful. Catholics prove they are able to be at opposite ends, but JW members prove the same. Some commit “greater” sins and some “minor” sins. By the same Law, the Law does not recognize lesser and /or bigger sins, but only whether or not you have done something. Perhaps majority of JW members will never participate in murdering, but if they not give "glass of water" to someone, they can also be judged as "guilty for sin" and be punished with same sentences as murderer. In such scenario JW ideology/theology is very much irrelevant.
Vectors in WTJWorg theology proves nothing, but decades of failed teachings and expectations, human instructions.
It is nice to have some, few or many ideals, for sure, maybe one day we will get to that place.  
 

Yes. This is why no Israelites crossed the Jordan River. Moses got himself disqualified, so everyone else climbed atop the mountain to die with him.

JW members, perhaps not knowing or because they are not fully aware, generally, with whole hearth supports "collective responsibility idea" and by that shares "guilty" for their GB "sins" (false teachings, wrong instructions, disobeying secular laws in many cases).
On other hand, Bible gave examples how looks "collective responsibility" and "collective punishment" and in some cases "individual responsibility" and "collective guilt and punishment".

Lets examine this :
Believe me, I understand the feeling.   Do you ? What feeling do you understand ?  Being abused as a child ? Being called a liar by the Elders of a congragation ?  Being D/fed for complaining about yourself or your child being sexually abused ? So which of those things do you understand ? 
But the organization isn't the issue That is your own opinon. My opinion and the opinion of many other people is that the Org Leaders over many years are to blame.
which after a time we realize from viewing many who leave for one reason stay away from God altogether
I would suggest that JWs do not have any idea what 'many who leave' do after they have left.  As the ones that leave are totally shunned then how do JWs know what they are doing. Do you go around spying on ex-JWs ? Do you know if ex-JWs pray or study the Bible in their homes, in private ?
TTH uses this idea lot, but does he go spying on ex-JWS, I doubt it.  This stupid brainwashing from the ORG, that people who leave the Org turn against God. And JWs fall for this brainwashing. Oh dear. 
Are you impatient ? I'm not. The longer it goes on, maybe the better.  It gives more time for God, through Christ, to sort out a clean organsation to serve Him.  It also gives more people time to serve God properly. And, if conditons get much worse it may help other people to see the contrast between good and evil. So, more time can be a good thing. 
It has been proven many times that Elders and Ministerial Servants have sexually abused young children in the congregatoins. But TTH is in denial. However TTH points at other religions and blames them, BUT TTH also has said that other religions don't have any records of such things ??????????  So, there are no records but TTH 'knows' that the leaders of other religions are to blame.  Whereas there ARE records in each country, of the JW sexual abuse. Oh dear, where are the GB and their Lawyers hiding that 25 year Pedophile database ??? And why are they hiding it ? 
 
I've no idea who this HF is. But, TTH seems to like them. 
Vendetta. Um, is that what Jesus had against the Pharisees ?   I think not.
I do worry, seriously, about how JWs have had their 'natural affection' switched off by the GB and it's Org. How JWs can treat victims of CSA as just being collateral damage. All the 'dirt' swept under the carpet just to keep the Watchtower / Org 'alive'. 
Really ??? I think not. I think it's ex-JWs that have brought it out into the open. They have helped to get it into the courtrooms. Ex JWs have been the reason that the Shepherding book has been revised, though of course you won't admit to that. Ex-JWs opened up the biggest 'can of worms' possible in the JW  Org. And that is why people like TTH and others hate ex JWs. 

vendetta a blood feud in which the family of a murdered person seeks vengeance on the murderer or the murderer's family. a prolonged bitter quarrel with or campaign against someone.   TTH cannot back down on HIS own vendetta against ex-JWs.  Even though he pretends to give a little praise.     

Apologize, you get it wrong. @Anna used Holly Folk research, who said ARC was wrong by putting  WTJWorg in this category of "institutional abuse" instead in "family abuse" category. And as i understand Anna agree with HF. Holy Folk is, it seems, first person who made such sort of ("ridiculous") comparison and triggered discussion and agreement/disagreement on her statement. :))